High disarm skill sending weapons flying

[Flaming Ocotillo]

A lot of NPCs are capable of knocking your weapon out of the room when they disarm you, and any warrior PC who's focused on training disarm long enough will eventually be able to do the same. This is generally viewed as a positive thing, because your opponent's weapon is now out of reach. However, there are times when you don't actually want to knock your opponent's weapon into another room. Additionally, I believe this "weapons flying" feature existed before the "attack of opportunity" feature which was coded into the game a little less than two years ago. The attack of opportunity code allows you to get a free attack (with bonuses) on anyone trying to act in a non-combative manner when engaged in combat as a direct combatant (being the recipient of someone's attacks rather than assisting from the flanks).

Occasionally, it is preferable to actually keep a weapon "covered" in the same room as your opponent when having just disarmed them, because you're fairly confident that any attempt on their behalf to reach for the weapon will result in a free round of attack that may cripple them. This is especially true when facing rogue-types who tend to flee from combat repeatedly to regain the advantage of stealth, distance, and coverage. Fleeing to the next room that you just knocked their poison-coated dagger into is an advantage for them, not a disadvantage. They'd be worse off having had the weapon drop at their feet.

There are plenty of instances where knocking weapons into another room is tremendously useful, particularly when facing multiple armed opponents. My suggestion is that there be some kind of feature implemented that allows warriors to "control" whether or not they knock a weapon into the next room or simply knock it to the floor nearby. Seeing as very few PCs have the opportunity to raise disarm high enough to send weapons sailing, I'm pretty sure this feature would be low on the priority list, as it will continue to be something few players have to contend with. However, I just thought I'd mention it since I'm interested in hearing what other players have to say, and wanted to make it a known issue with the advanced disarm feature for anyone who's ever wondered about it.

I always thought the flying disarm code worked like "disarm gith north"

Then again, I've never really used disarm, so I'm probably wrong.

And yes, I'd like to see the flying disarmers being able to disarm normally, if you disarm with a downward strike for instance... their weapon isn't going to bounce off of a rock and shoot off into the distance...

[SailorMars]

I always thought the flying disarm code worked like "disarm gith north"

Then again, I've never really used disarm, so I'm probably wrong.

Far as I know, there is not a directional flag for disarm.

I agree that having some sort of directional flag for disarms would be a good change. Makes sense that one so skilled would have options.

Maybe have the disarm attempt default to your full effort, or allow for 'disarm foo here' -- the 'here' flag meaning trying specifically to drop the weapon to the floor.

[Jacques]

A simple toggle would be easier, I think. If the toggle is on, you will send the weapon as far as possible (which might still only be the same room). If off, same room.

I like this idea a bit better because you'd have to be STUPID good to control which direction the weapon went, and at that point just KILL the guy and take the weapon from his body and THROW it for pity's sake!

:wink:

[Vendyra]

I very much like Tony's idea of being able to disarm with a directional argument.  Does anyone else agree?

[Ghardoan]

"I very much like Tony's idea of being able to disarm with a directional argument. Does anyone else agree?"

Indeed I do, provided that up is not one of those directionals, or if it is, the weapon will fall back down. I have never seen this myself, but I have heard rumors of weapons being disarmed and sent flying into the sky, yet not coming back down. This seems to be a rather unrealistic and undesirable effect.


Ghardoan

[Vendyra]

I know if you throw a weapon up, it comes flying back down.  I would hope it does the same for being disarmed upward.  Maybe if you get really good, you can disarm it to the up and have it fall back on your opponent.  Now that would be a skill!

[Ghardoan]

"I know if you throw a weapon up, it comes flying back down. I would hope it does the same for being disarmed upward."

Try disarming Nessalin so that we may know for sure.


Ghardoan

[SailorMars]

I very much like Tony's idea of being able to disarm with a directional argument. Does anyone else agree?

I see the ability to cheese this.

"Go wait east. I will send X's weapon to you shortly. Just run off with it."

To avoid cheese, the default disarm might be: Use your disarm skill fully, thereby sending the weapon flying (in a random direction) if you're good enough. Or, a flag, such as disarm foo here, or disarm foo floor, etc., if you wanted to drop it on the ground specifically.

I have a hard time imagining being able to disarm in a specified direction. Combat is not a static thing. The participants are moving all over, turning, spinning, falling, standing, etc. In the thick of battle you'd be hard pressed to send a weapon flying right where you want, simply because of the moving bodies. You'd probably send it flying in whatever direction happened to make sense (or was open) at that given moment. That's how I see the 'random' direction now -- it was the open direction between all the moving bodies to send it.

Perhaps being able to disarm in a specific direction could be a super-high disarm skill option IC, but still seems potentially abusable OOC... just my 2 'sids.

[Vendyra]

What about in basketball?  Knocking a basketball to one side, you do have to have a general idea of where it's going.

[SailorMars]

What about in basketball? Knocking a basketball to one side, you do have to have a general idea of where it's going.

Rofl... I am guessing you mean knocking a b-ball away from your opponent?

1) You usually try to swat the ball away in mid-dribble, during a pass, or during a shot, not when it's being solidly held.
2) The other players generally don't have homicide in mind. Well, unless we're talking street ball in Brooklyn.
3) If you miss the swat, the other player won't try to ram a jagged piece of bone through your eye socket.
4) There isn't slippery blood all over the court.
5) How often a pass is picked off by another player does illustrate some things...

If you disarm gith north, there should be a random check to see if anyone is in the way, because you are more interested in the direction, rather than if the coast is clear. You send a gith sword flying north into the surprised hate-eyed runner's groin. Hehehehe.

I am being silly now. Go with whatever is more fun.

[X-D]

People already disengage and go grab weapons, that would be nothing new...Me, I'd be sending over cliffs or up. :twisted:

[Flaming Ocotillo]

If a warrior is going to face an opponent who he knows he can disarm with ease in any given direction, why would he even bother suggesting that one of his buddies wait in the distance to intercept a flying weapon that he will direct into the field?

When a warrior achieves a level of skill where they absolutely -know- they can send their opponent's weapon flying all over the place, there is little point to asking allies to stand at one end of a battlefield waiting to catch airborne weapons. There are so many factors in combat that make specifically planning a "weapon catch" more trouble than it's worth. It's more than likely that the defender in this scenario will be fleeing repeatedly if they are so easily disarmed by the attacking warrior, and if the defender isn't easily disarmed because they are highly skilled themselves, why are the warrior's potential allied attackers sitting around waiting for weapons to fly their way when they could be helping?

Very few weapons are worth going through the trouble to capture by planning the entire offensive strategy around the defender's lost weapon. It's easy to imagine the scenario being "cheesy" when you can pick the direction to disarm a foe, but in practice, when you've seen several elements of high and low level combat situations/combinations, including a handful of other combatants with varying skills participating in those same battles, the concept of giving a PC the role of "weapon catcher" works out much less effectively than it sounds on paper. Granted, losing a weapon in combat is a bad thing when someone else gets a hold of it, but then that's one of the disadvantages of being disarmed (and an advantage for the PC/NPC who has the skill). Combatants will generally scoop up the fallen weapons of their foes, but I don't see that allowing PCs to choose a disarm direction is going to suddenly start a new fighting style, based around one warrior PC playing the weapon-toss quarterback and another PC playing the receiver. Anyone _could_ conceivably attempt to try a strategy like that, but they'd be lessening their effectiveness in combat rather than increasing it.

What are other people's opinion?

[Plazgoth]

I htink the only reason it would be sed is to toss a weapon into a chasm or over a cliff, that way the victim cannot ust run over and grabb it on their way out fleeing.

If you do add a directional argument, make it like flee, even if you can send it flying, doesn't mean it's going to go the direction you want. And even if you are that good, again, you're badass and don't need to cheese.

[spawnloser]

I'm with Tony on this one.  You'd have to be good at it to control which direction.  I think that maybe there should be an increased difficulty just to disarm at all if you want to try to control the direction.

[Wintermute]

Something that you guys don't seem to have considered is that the 'flying weapon' result can occur with an automatic reversal of an attempted disarm.  While I like the idea of a command option, it wouldn't cover that particular situation.  The toggle then becomes a better option, or perhaps both can be put in.

This is also a good segway into the old idea of being able to moderate one's effort in combat - ie. some toggle or setting that allows one to fight at a certain percentage of normal effectiveness.. allowing all sorts of roleplay possibilities.

I'd love to see both, really..  :wink:

[crymerci]

If this happens I want to see a chance of the weapon flying up then coming back down to land on one of the people fighting, wounding them.  :twisted:

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I'm going to be a necromancer and revive this thread, in light of all the code changes that have been taking place lately.

Basically the question is:

How do you feel about this "disarm <direction>" proposal made about three years ago, and what suggestions could be made on how to improve the original idea?

[UnderSeven]

I actually want to ask, because a good point was made about the whole bonus to hitting someone picking up a weapon.  Is knocking a weapon out of the room very reasonable even?  I'm trying to imagine taking something like a sword, which can be fairly heavy and KNOCKING it to another room - the same distance you can throw most weapons.  That's a lot way, and we're not even talking about the launcher having a grip on the weapon, but rather knocking it out of someone else's grip.  

That's nothing short of a positively incredible disarm.  Maybe now that you do get a bonus against someone picking something up this should be reconsidered too.

[Majikal]

The guild(s) that get this skill are already so ridiculous at fighting I think knocking the weapon out of a room is not only unrealistic, I think it hurts combat playability a bit. I've had my weapons disarmed in desert combat and had to flee, if my flee direction failed, I had to run a wide arch around the guy I was fighting to get my weapon, or run back through his room to grab my weapon. The attack of oppurtunity given for picking up a fallen weapon, not to mention the attacks missed while you're lacking the weapon is enough penalty in my opinion.

[Agent_137]

The guild(s) that get this skill are already so ridiculous at fighting I think knocking the weapon out of a room is not only unrealistic, I think it hurts combat playability a bit. I've had my weapons disarmed in desert combat and had to flee, if my flee direction failed, I had to run a wide arch around the guy I was fighting to get my weapon, or run back through his room to grab my weapon. The attack of oppurtunity given for picking up a fallen weapon, not to mention the attacks missed while you're lacking the weapon is enough penalty in my opinion.

carry more than one weapon or run away from a superior fighter.

Both of these solutions are realistic and viable.

I don't know I bother to read these "nerf" threads. All they do is irk me. Feels like i'm on the steam or wow forums.

p.s.
you could also have enough of a flee skill to flee in the proper directions. sounds like your character was just out classed and you are bitching about it.

[Morgenes]

FWIW, this exists in some form today, however you can't choose the direction it goes.  IMO, this is more than enough functionality for an already powerful ability.  Even one round without a weapon is a major disadvantage.

[LoD]

FWIW, this exists in some form today, however you can't choose the direction it goes.  IMO, this is more than enough functionality for an already powerful ability.  Even one round without a weapon is a major disadvantage.

I agree.  Disarming someone often depends on a variety of factors that are not easily controlled or manipulated, especially in the midst of a deadly match.  There are too many variables that go into a given round of combat for someone to really choose the direction in which the disarmed blade flies.  It will depend on where the disarm happens in the course of the swing, the direction the enemy is facing, whether it's held one handed or two handed.  It's much more likely that the disarmed blade just "goes flying" rather than someone electing where it travels.

I would like to see the following additions someday though:

:arrow: Objects under "X" stone weight can be thrown into adjacent rooms.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Wastes[NEWS]
The swarthy, sun branded raider is standing here.

Growling, using his blade to point, the swarthy, sun branded raider says, in sirihish:
   "Ya wanna live, throw that sword away.  NOW!"

Muttering softly under his breath, you glance down toward a bone longsword before considering the swarthy, sun branded raider.

>throw sword east near
You hurl a bone longsword to the east.

:arrow: The ability to kick objects under "X" stone weight into adjacent rooms.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Wastes [NEWS]
The swarthy, black skinned raider is here, fighting you.

The swarthy, black skinned raider deftly knocks a bone longsword from your hands.

With a smirk, the swarthy, black skinned raider takes a step toward the discarded weapon, sweeping his heavy boot toward its hilt.

The swarthy, black skinned raiders kicks a bone longsword to the east.

Both options could involve some interesting scenes and utility for transferring items between rooms, and not just during times of violence.  Exchanges between skeptical parties, setups where someone delivers something by throwing it into a room so they don't ever see the person who collects it close-up, signals between groups, and others.

-LoD

[Rhyden]

:arrow: Objects under "X" stone weight can be thrown into adjacent rooms.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Wastes[NEWS]
The swarthy, sun branded raider is standing here.

Growling, using his blade to point, the swarthy, sun branded raider says, in sirihish:
   "Ya wanna live, throw that sword away.  NOW!"

Muttering softly under his breath, you glance down toward a bone longsword before considering the swarthy, sun branded raider.

>throw sword east near
You hurl a bone longsword to the east.

This, I like. It should also be available for most objects under X weight too. Like torches, rope, light packs, etc.

:arrow: The ability to kick objects under "X" stone weight into adjacent rooms.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Wastes [NEWS]
The swarthy, black skinned raider is here, fighting you.

The swarthy, black skinned raider deftly knocks a bone longsword from your hands.

With a smirk, the swarthy, black skinned raider takes a step toward the discarded weapon, sweeping his heavy boot toward its hilt.

The swarthy, black skinned raiders kicks a bone longsword to the east.

This, I don't like. Why? Because it's gonna be a spam-race and disarmers will -always- use it after disarm.

Code Select Expand

disarm guy
kick <weapon> east

I see where you're coming from with this idea, LoD and I like it, but the room for abuse is pretty high here, I think.