You can't drop a voluminous, amber-edged clan; it must be CURSED!

[brytta.leofa]

Why must some clans require lifelong service?  My assumption is that is supposed to fix some problem with people behaving unrealistically, but I can't really guess what it might be.

To my mind, the only thing that makes this tolerable is that many folks don't keep their characters alive long enough to notice.

[mansa]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

[Tisiphone]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

Hey, now there's an idea...

[Marauder Moe]

I think forced conscription would be awesome.


But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

[Cutthroat]

I think it's about trust.

It's hard to trust a lowly recruit with much more than menial duty and training. After X time when they are given the chance to take the lifelong oath in their clan, trust is supposedly more established in the person. It is definitely easier to promote a person to higher ranks if they have sworn their life to the clan as opposed to those people who have not (in the cases where there is a choice). The person can be involved in more secretive things because they know if they try to defect, and run away with all the secrets, their superiors will ensure they are silenced.

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

[brytta.leofa]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

[mansa]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

Everybody has secrets.

[Marauder Moe]

Maybe.

Or maybe merchants are less paranoid.

[Cutthroat]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

I think it is reasonable to assume that any clan would gladly accept a person who is willing to swear their life to it, by and by.

[Ender]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

You answered your own question there.  Everyone has secrets.  If they told everyone then they wouldn't be secrets.  Swearing a life long oath is basically saying "I'm safe to tell secrets to, because I'm always gonna be on your side (think until I betray you!)".

[Gimfalisette]

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

The best way to keep members in a clan is to have good leadership in the clan.

I hate, hate, hate the life-term service thing with a passion. Having been screwed by it previously, I doubt I will ever play another minion PC who takes a life oath.

[Cutthroat]

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

The best way to keep members in a clan is to have good leadership in the clan.

I hate, hate, hate the life-term service thing with a passion. Having been screwed by it previously, I doubt I will ever play another minion PC who takes a life oath.

Indeed, in an OOC sense, it requires a variety of things to keep players interested, one of them being good leadership. And, personally, I wish those clans with mandatory lifelong oaths made taking one optional.  However, clans as a whole probably have the lifelong oath to keep the vNPCs and NPCs around. Having the PCs affected by the same rules is more of an unfortunate side-effect than a necessity (or so it would appear, to me).

[Boggis]

Why must some clans require lifelong service?  My assumption is that is supposed to fix some problem with people behaving unrealistically, but I can't really guess what it might be.

In a harsh and unforgiving world having the possibility of making a life oath would be a dream come true for many people. Swearing a life oath to one of the organisations who require it would be badge of honour for just about any commoner given the high status of the Houses that typically require this kind of oath. A life oath fits the gameworld theme perfectly. It just doesn't always fit the OOC reality where people can get left stranded in clans that go through gaps in leadership, player numbers, etc. or just want to be able to experience different things with the same character. I'd prefer it if noble Houses only asked you to make a life oath once you reached a certain level of authority in the House i.e. around the Sergeant / Advisor sort of level. It would give players ample opportunity to decide if they wanted to remain in the clan and if they do decide to stay for life then by then they'd at least be in a leadership position of some description so they'd have the opportunity to keep the clan ticking over and keep things fun for themselves.

[brytta.leofa]

I would assume that no clan would allow a member possessed of important secrets to leave, oath or not.  On the other hand, secrets should be taken seriously, not handed out like candy.  Private Malik does not need to know the Great Lord's favorite ice cream flavor, nor, in a land of both magickal and psionic spying, is anything known by the ten thousand soldiers of the Jade Sabers Legion really a closely-guarded secret anymore.

My problem with the life-oath is that it forces death-by-storage for long-lived characters.  I'm fine with people in sensitive roles being forced to stay-or-die, and with multi-year employment contracts.

But most players aren't up to spending thirty IC years in the militia or a noble house under significant restrictions.  So they store when they get tired, pulling a long-lived character with interesting history out of the world and replacing him with a wet-behind-the-ears youngster and a made-up background.

[X-D]

My last life oath PC was a winrothol LT, and though I had a great time with him. I vowed to never again join a life-oath clan, that was like 7 years ago now and I've not joined one, nor will I.

(edit) Woohoo, I've been sig'd

[mansa]

My last life oath PC was a winrothol LT, and though I had a great time with him. I vowed to never again join a life-oath clan, that was like 7 years ago now and I've not joined one, nor will I.

I guess it's weird, in that my characters that I've played have never said a life-oath in all my times playing ArmageddonMUD.

[jcljules]

This seems to be the minority opinion, but I love the lifesworn concept in Armageddon clans... both OOCly and ICly. It really makes Zalanthas seem more harsh to me, and less like the modern world--in which people can hop from job to job. Zalanthans are lucky to be accepted into a clan for life, fed, watered and given a home--and I feel like they should be loyal to organizations willing to do all of that for them. And it really bothers me when I meet characters who have been in like every clan, for some reason...

"I was a crafter with Salarr, then Kadius, then I joined the Byn, then the southern militia... now I'm a gemmer. Oh, did I mention I'm also a bard in my spare time?"

[jstorrie]

You can get pretty far in most clans without swearing a life-oath–sergeant-level, generally. Varies from clan to clan, of course.

[Only He Stands There]

Seems more than logical to me.

On the one hand, perhaps they were looking for a good "fit" with a clan, which can be tough. Kadian hunters != Salarri hunters != Kuraci Fist != southern militia, so on and so forth. The Byn doesn't really count, as it's more of a "training" clan than a "be with us for life" clan for most characters, save those who choose to continue on for a while after.  These players tend to be well-connected and well-rounded.

On the other hand, a character that jumps from clan to clan like that will be far less trusted by its superiors. When I played a GMH leader, I had players hopping over from other clans all the time to be part of my crew. Many of them I grew to trust, but occasionally one who would, otherwise, be well-trusted would be pretty hardcore shunned because there's a chance they were a spy. I handled life-oaths on a case-by-case basis, and only a couple were ever made to swear them - one of whom was being groomed to be married into the family.

If they ARE trusted and ARE shown secrets/given awesome gear/trained to the best of their ability, well, that's their superiors' faults for being retards.

[Zoan]

Don't matter what org you're loyal to. You are by default life-sworn to your Sorceror-King (even if you don't know it yet)!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

[Tisiphone]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

Last I checked, most do, but I agree.

[brytta.leofa]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

Last I checked, most do, but I agree.

"Recruit." 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

[Tisiphone]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

For the record, there is no life-oath in the Arm of the Dragon, unless you're a templar.