You can't drop a voluminous, amber-edged clan; it must be CURSED!

[brytta.leofa]

Why must some clans require lifelong service?  My assumption is that is supposed to fix some problem with people behaving unrealistically, but I can't really guess what it might be.

To my mind, the only thing that makes this tolerable is that many folks don't keep their characters alive long enough to notice.

[mansa]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

[Tisiphone]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

Hey, now there's an idea...

[Marauder Moe]

I think forced conscription would be awesome.


But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

[Cutthroat]

I think it's about trust.

It's hard to trust a lowly recruit with much more than menial duty and training. After X time when they are given the chance to take the lifelong oath in their clan, trust is supposedly more established in the person. It is definitely easier to promote a person to higher ranks if they have sworn their life to the clan as opposed to those people who have not (in the cases where there is a choice). The person can be involved in more secretive things because they know if they try to defect, and run away with all the secrets, their superiors will ensure they are silenced.

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

[brytta.leofa]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

[mansa]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

Everybody has secrets.

[Marauder Moe]

Maybe.

Or maybe merchants are less paranoid.

[Cutthroat]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

I think it is reasonable to assume that any clan would gladly accept a person who is willing to swear their life to it, by and by.

[Ender]

But anyway, life-long service is to protect each clan's dirty little secrets I think.

Apparently the Merchant Houses don't have such secrets (with the possible exception of Kurac).  That, or they keep them, well, secret from their grunts.

You answered your own question there.  Everyone has secrets.  If they told everyone then they wouldn't be secrets.  Swearing a life long oath is basically saying "I'm safe to tell secrets to, because I'm always gonna be on your side (think until I betray you!)".

[Gimfalisette]

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

The best way to keep members in a clan is to have good leadership in the clan.

I hate, hate, hate the life-term service thing with a passion. Having been screwed by it previously, I doubt I will ever play another minion PC who takes a life oath.

[Cutthroat]

It's also the best way to keep members in a clan. Those players OOCly willing to allow their characters to take a lifelong oath ICly are pretty sure they won't be bored for a long time, and won't wish they picked another clan to join. This ensures that some important clans (such as the various militia groups) always has a decent player base.

The best way to keep members in a clan is to have good leadership in the clan.

I hate, hate, hate the life-term service thing with a passion. Having been screwed by it previously, I doubt I will ever play another minion PC who takes a life oath.

Indeed, in an OOC sense, it requires a variety of things to keep players interested, one of them being good leadership. And, personally, I wish those clans with mandatory lifelong oaths made taking one optional.  However, clans as a whole probably have the lifelong oath to keep the vNPCs and NPCs around. Having the PCs affected by the same rules is more of an unfortunate side-effect than a necessity (or so it would appear, to me).

[Boggis]

Why must some clans require lifelong service?  My assumption is that is supposed to fix some problem with people behaving unrealistically, but I can't really guess what it might be.

In a harsh and unforgiving world having the possibility of making a life oath would be a dream come true for many people. Swearing a life oath to one of the organisations who require it would be badge of honour for just about any commoner given the high status of the Houses that typically require this kind of oath. A life oath fits the gameworld theme perfectly. It just doesn't always fit the OOC reality where people can get left stranded in clans that go through gaps in leadership, player numbers, etc. or just want to be able to experience different things with the same character. I'd prefer it if noble Houses only asked you to make a life oath once you reached a certain level of authority in the House i.e. around the Sergeant / Advisor sort of level. It would give players ample opportunity to decide if they wanted to remain in the clan and if they do decide to stay for life then by then they'd at least be in a leadership position of some description so they'd have the opportunity to keep the clan ticking over and keep things fun for themselves.

[brytta.leofa]

I would assume that no clan would allow a member possessed of important secrets to leave, oath or not.  On the other hand, secrets should be taken seriously, not handed out like candy.  Private Malik does not need to know the Great Lord's favorite ice cream flavor, nor, in a land of both magickal and psionic spying, is anything known by the ten thousand soldiers of the Jade Sabers Legion really a closely-guarded secret anymore.

My problem with the life-oath is that it forces death-by-storage for long-lived characters.  I'm fine with people in sensitive roles being forced to stay-or-die, and with multi-year employment contracts.

But most players aren't up to spending thirty IC years in the militia or a noble house under significant restrictions.  So they store when they get tired, pulling a long-lived character with interesting history out of the world and replacing him with a wet-behind-the-ears youngster and a made-up background.

[X-D]

My last life oath PC was a winrothol LT, and though I had a great time with him. I vowed to never again join a life-oath clan, that was like 7 years ago now and I've not joined one, nor will I.

(edit) Woohoo, I've been sig'd

[mansa]

My last life oath PC was a winrothol LT, and though I had a great time with him. I vowed to never again join a life-oath clan, that was like 7 years ago now and I've not joined one, nor will I.

I guess it's weird, in that my characters that I've played have never said a life-oath in all my times playing ArmageddonMUD.

[jcljules]

This seems to be the minority opinion, but I love the lifesworn concept in Armageddon clans... both OOCly and ICly. It really makes Zalanthas seem more harsh to me, and less like the modern world--in which people can hop from job to job. Zalanthans are lucky to be accepted into a clan for life, fed, watered and given a home--and I feel like they should be loyal to organizations willing to do all of that for them. And it really bothers me when I meet characters who have been in like every clan, for some reason...

"I was a crafter with Salarr, then Kadius, then I joined the Byn, then the southern militia... now I'm a gemmer. Oh, did I mention I'm also a bard in my spare time?"

[jstorrie]

You can get pretty far in most clans without swearing a life-oath–sergeant-level, generally. Varies from clan to clan, of course.

[Only He Stands There]

Seems more than logical to me.

On the one hand, perhaps they were looking for a good "fit" with a clan, which can be tough. Kadian hunters != Salarri hunters != Kuraci Fist != southern militia, so on and so forth. The Byn doesn't really count, as it's more of a "training" clan than a "be with us for life" clan for most characters, save those who choose to continue on for a while after.  These players tend to be well-connected and well-rounded.

On the other hand, a character that jumps from clan to clan like that will be far less trusted by its superiors. When I played a GMH leader, I had players hopping over from other clans all the time to be part of my crew. Many of them I grew to trust, but occasionally one who would, otherwise, be well-trusted would be pretty hardcore shunned because there's a chance they were a spy. I handled life-oaths on a case-by-case basis, and only a couple were ever made to swear them - one of whom was being groomed to be married into the family.

If they ARE trusted and ARE shown secrets/given awesome gear/trained to the best of their ability, well, that's their superiors' faults for being retards.

[Zoan]

Don't matter what org you're loyal to. You are by default life-sworn to your Sorceror-King (even if you don't know it yet)!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

[Tisiphone]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

Last I checked, most do, but I agree.

[brytta.leofa]

I wouldn't mind if every GMH and Noble House had at least ONE rank that someone could be in for as long as they were of use.

Last I checked, most do, but I agree.

"Recruit." 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

[Tisiphone]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

For the record, there is no life-oath in the Arm of the Dragon, unless you're a templar.

[Reiloth]

Strange, because there is in the Tuluki Legions.

[brytta.leofa]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

For the record, there is no life-oath in the Arm of the Dragon, unless you're a templar.

I believe that leaving is often discouraged, in the Zalanthan sense.

[Vessol]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

It's happened to at least two of my characters.

Twas awesome.

[jcljules]

At least Zalanthas doesn't have forced conscription into the Militia for their wars.

It's happened to at least two of my characters.

Twas awesome.

That is -awesome-. I want a war. Oh, if only I had found this game earlier...

[Gunnerblaster]

That is -awesome-. I want a war. Oh, if only I had found this game earlier...

The wars are awesome. I have only had the luck of being in one - But let me tell you, just the amount of excitement is crazy.

[jcljules]

That is -awesome-. I want a war. Oh, if only I had found this game earlier...

The wars are awesome. I have only had the luck of being in one - But let me tell you, just the amount of excitement is crazy.

My next character concept will be pickpocket who steals official militia uniforms from both cities and informs templars of a declaration of war. Then I'll store and make a 'nakki soldier. 

[Vessol]

That is -awesome-. I want a war. Oh, if only I had found this game earlier...

The wars are awesome. I have only had the luck of being in one - But let me tell you, just the amount of excitement is crazy.

Trying to keep up with the scrolling text is harder :\.

[Gunnerblaster]

Trying to keep up with the scrolling text is harder :\.

I chalk it up to being the confusion of war.

[jcljules]

That is -awesome-. I want a war. Oh, if only I had found this game earlier...

The wars are awesome. I have only had the luck of being in one - But let me tell you, just the amount of excitement is crazy.

Trying to keep up with the scrolling text is harder :\.

Yeah, I hate combat spam. But even if I wasn't involved in battle I would -love- to be in a war... just all of the tavern gossip must have been amazing back then, I'm sure. As well as the feeling of being in danger--not just from a personal standpoint of your PC, but everyone and everything you knew. I want another!

[Vessol]

The combat spam and "A unit of Allanaki half-giants hits you in the head doing UNSPEAKABLE damage" is the biggest turn off in wars for me.

However I will say in the last war this was really circumnavigated and was really awesome.

[brytta.leofa]

However I will say in the last war this was really circumnavigated and was really awesome.

Circumvented.  And this thread is only for cantankerous complaints about coercive clan compulsions, 'k?

[Gunnerblaster]

Circumvented.  And this thread is only for cantankerous complaints about coercive clan compulsions, 'k?

The clans are trying to keep us PC's down.

Rebel.

[SMuz]

Heheheh, rebel is the best command out there for a clan you don't want to be in. Then you run off to the other city-state.

[Melody]

Heheheh, rebel is the best command out there for a clan you don't want to be in. Then you run off to the other city-state.

Save that clan also have a presence in the other city-state. And you will be the proud target of a bounty.

I detest life oath too.

[Delstro]

A life of excitement is yours then!

[SMuz]

If it's a militia clan, chances are there's no chance of it having any presence in the other city. I think.

[Delstro]

The only ones that require a life commitment don't possess much sway in the other city-states, except one dun-clad company. Who wants to ditch them anyway?

[Melody]

Assassins can cross all boundaries.

Have you ever been hunted down by an organization that you used to be in? Some people like rping it, but personally, I feel it is not so glamous and deadly boring. Lots of solo rp. Too much solo rp. Unless you take shelter in another organization, in that case, ditching a clan for life oath in the first place seems a little retarded. (you would be pretty much indebted for life to the second clan)

As for militia clans' sways, you might be surprised. Ultimately, it is a matter of how active that clan is.

[Delstro]

One good way to get away that has been tried and true for me:

Hey Boss, I know we are friends. I want out, here is a large. Don't come for me.

[RogueGunslinger]

Well, yes, but recruits are expected to graduate. I meant a more permanent position with the same amount of trust but minor pay and some perks. Something like - all Privates in the Arm can leave following year long terms of service, etc, or, graduate to Private Prime, whereupon they must take the life oath.

For the record, there is no life-oath in the Arm of the Dragon, unless you're a templar.

I believe that leaving is often discouraged, in the Zalanthan sense.

I had an app rejected for this very reason. Staff member said having a retired arm char would likely mean the character would either be dead, or not in 'nak anymore.

[Fathi]

I can recall two instances of PCs being allowed to leave the AoD on good terms, after exemplary service and brutal, crippling injury, so it -does- happen... but I think it mostly depends on the templar(s) around at the time and that PC's record of service. And rank.

[flurry]

One thing to consider is negotiating with your boss. Even if a life oath is "mandatory", exceptions can probably be made if they think you're worth it. Nothing needs to be etched in stone. And, as someone else pointed out, even if you've already taken a life oath, that doesn't mean it's impossible to make some deal to get out of it.

I think part of the beauty of the patron-partisan system, at least in theory, is that it encourages people to find an agreement that works for both sides.  On some level, I think regular employment could benefit from that outlook, too.

[Delstro]

I have been released from two life Oaths because I did my job horribly and I also paid my way out.

PCs like their 'sid.