What is considered bad RP?

[SMuz]

Stuff..

Huh, that was quite interesting. I thought it'd be tiresome to do that every time, but it makes a boring thing more exciting. Emoting makes eating stew more interesting

[Comrade Canadia]

Good and bad are unpleasant words because they're so darn subjective. My opinion of good RP might be drastically different than someone else's. There are a number of universal no-nos, the big one about interacting with the world through code alone was explained beautifully by LoD. There's a little more to it though.

The examples you listed makes me think you're overcautious about balancing code against roleplay. There are some simple rules to keep in mind:

If it can make rational sense in game, it's likely fine. Like, haggling with a merchant until he's ready to throw you out is not only fine, it's realistic. Stealing pants off of someone who's sleeping is not realistic. Try to envision it. I think if you spent a long while constructing the scene of the theft in such a way that it made sense in game, you could get away with it, but just yanking the pants off of some shmoe and then spam-walking goes against what LoD described. Stuff like logging off when you're bored is just simple logic. If a game isn't fun - DON'T PLAY IT. There's an argument for making your own fun, but we all play enough as is.

Good roleplay is about making the world around you come alive in a believable way. If we all RP well, suspension of disbelief is easy and the game becomes immersive. If we're all just automatons wandering around and spamming coded commands, there's no immersion and the game loses its special charm. So long as you're making the game come alive, do what you want with the code.

[DustMight]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

Bad RP. 

Sleeping in the middle of the road, after an exhausting day outside? In a sandstorm?

Not bad RP if you play it out right and change your ldesc to indicate you are doing just that.  Put your hood up, huddle, seek some pathetic shelter.

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

No. This is fine if your character has this as part of his personality.  If you slack off because you're bored (versus your character) then it is poor RP.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

Hm. Touchy.  I would say maybe - I would probably be tempted to do this.  Actually it is poor RP and I've decided I wouldn't do this.

Spam kicking/disarm in a battle to the death?

Some might say no, but spamming anything is bad. "Spam" means bad, right? I mean, that's why we use the term.  Kick, emote, kick emote is far better.

Cooking things without starting an actual fire? Or are all those pieces of bread really just uncooked dough?

I say no, but I emote a fire.  I also emote letting things cook or dry on the rocks or whatever.

Stealing the pants off someone who's asleep?

If your character is the type to steal then, um, no.

Haggling right up to the point where merchants get pissed, before accepting?

Not if your character is the haggling type and doesn't mind loosing a sale.

Disconnecting as soon as the RP gets boring.. if you're selling things and the stores won't buy more.. in the weekends/night if your clan is training.. if you're hunting and the animals haven't "respawned"..

No.  Boredom kills.

[Pale Horse]

On a different vein, power emoting is also considered "poor RP."  By "power emoting" I mean like typing out:

Code Select Expand

emote swings ^me sword, slicing through ^tall throat, sending a geyser of blood spewing into the air!

If you did this without actually engaging in the combat code, you're power emoting.  You're trying to "win", make your character always on the "winning" end.

Also, describing how another PC feels or thinks is a form of power emoting (unless you're a mindbender, then by all means, force them to think and feel how you want them to..provided ooc consent is given, if you're in to that sort of thing).

Example:

Code Select Expand

pemo wandering into the room, @ attention darts towards ~mul, ^me black-rimmed irises piercing ^mul eyes, sending a jolt of fear through !mul, making !mul think it would be a bad idea to bother !me.

There, I just tried to force an emotion and a feeling on someone else's PC (or NPC).  I can't do that.  How that PC (NPC) reacts is totally up to the discretion of their player, not me (and conversely, you).

[brytta.leofa]

Two that jumped out at me:

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

If "not around" means "off in the other city-state," this is fine.  If it means "logged off," it's pretty horrifical: there's really no in-character explanation for Merchant Bob being offline.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

The real problem you're trying to avoid is of antagonizing the people who see you everyday.  Look at it another way: 'til you get good at it, it's very acceptable to only peek 'n' steal from people who satisfy the following conditions:
(a) not someone you recognize from your favorite tavern,
(b) not in the employ of rich, influential people, and, if possible,
(c) not in the neighborhood in which you live.

[Malken]

Bad rp is watching a guy playing a really high karma class spamming his skill 20 times in a row, in less than thirty seconds, without emoting before, in between or after.

So sad. Sometimes I think I suck so bad I don't even know why I have more than -2 karma, then I see this, and it gives me confidence.

[Lizzie]

It's because you're the *charming* twink, Malken. Charm negates twinkery by 4 points.

On topic: Bad RP is anything that isn't how I RP, or anything that isn't better than how I RP. Except for Malken, for the reason already mentioned. That brings him to 1 point higher than I am in good RPness.

[LoD]

On a different vein, power emoting is also considered "poor RP."  By "power emoting" I mean like typing out:

Code Select Expand

emote swings ^me sword, slicing through ^tall throat, sending a geyser of blood spewing into the air!

Code Select Expand

pemo wandering into the room, @ attention darts towards ~mul, ^me black-rimmed irises piercing ^mul
eyes, sending a jolt of fear through !mul, making !mul think it would be a bad idea to bother !me.

This is something that probably can be reiterated as we get new players because, while these are fairly obvious and strong examples, power emoting can be much more subtle.  And there are even different categories of power emoting that I've seen done.

Physical contact without code.

> emote roughly shoves ~man backwards.
> emote throws a piping hot bowl of stew in %dwarf face.
> emote laughs as a rumbling caravan strikes a puddle, kicking mud up onto ~woman.

Using NPC's to support your character's cause.

> emote sneers as several of the bar patrons point and laugh at ~elf.
> emote plays the last note of his carefully-strummed song, relaxing his grip on his mandolin as the crowded tavern erupts into applause.

Forcing someone into a specific position or location.

> emote suddenly corners you in the alleyway, cutting off %man escape!
> emote steps forward, forcing ~merchant into the adjoining alleyway with the press of a sharp-bladed dirk.
> emote appears behind ~man, pressing the blade of ~knife against %man throat.

Using the IC board as a vehicle to represent public opinion.

> Rumors swirl about the tavern that a man by the name of Rijak has been looking to hire on a few hands for an escort operation.  Even though people say he speaks with a southern accent, most folks around town have been happy with his services and claim that he's trustworthy.

There can be a lot of gray areas surrounding emoting, especially when people are getting used to the system or coming from other games.

-LoD

[SMuz]

Ah, so true. I never saw any power emoting in the form Pale Horse says, not in Armageddon, but the type LoD says is fairly common.

Also, the type which RPs against what would codedly happen.

> emote picks up a bed, and throws it at ~man.
> emote easily picks up some 30-stone weights in each hand. (with an average STR character who has a sdesc of being strong)
> emote hides his hand inside his cloak (i.e. you don't see the sword in my hand)
> emote sips from ~poisoned.

I'm surprised how often I see that last one, instead of a proper sip.

[Ashes]

Unless, of course, you can:

>g bed
You pick up a four-poster stone bed.

Or accompany >em sips from ~skin with >hem doesn't swallow, but carefully pushes the fluid into her cheek.

Alot of the power-emoting examples are really just emotes that should be accompanied with other indications or coded action.  For example, if your half-giant has Amos subdued, feel free to emote shaking him around.

[SMuz]

Picking up a bed certainly doesn't mean that you could throw it. I've seen someone emote throwing something at someone, but because it was too heavy, > drop item (with a feeble toss, ~item hits the ground far short of !item mark)

[Ashes]

True.  Maybe I should have been more specific:

You pick up a four-poster stone bed.
It is very light.

[DustMight]

Or accompany >em sips from ~skin with >hem doesn't swallow, but carefully pushes the fluid into her cheek.

This is terrible, actually because you are assuming you know how the poison works - does it work in the stomach?  Maybe it can be absorbed in the muscosal lining of the mouth, eh?

I believe I have heard the staff in the past mention something against emoting exactly a coded action, but maybe that no longer applies?

The intent here, of course, by emoting such a thing is to mislead the player and not the character.  Thus, this is a bad
roleplay.

To add another - is when a character is standing with weapons drawn but changes his ldesc to indicate he is sleeping.  Utter twinkery. 

[deviant storm]

Physical contact without code.

> emote roughly shoves ~man backwards.
> emote throws a piping hot bowl of stew in %dwarf face.
> emote laughs as a rumbling caravan strikes a puddle, kicking mud up onto ~woman.

So what is the proper method to rp then, when you want physical contact of some sort and you don't want to initiate combat? Should every action have to be codedly done to be 'good'?

I agree that some of the above examples might be poor form, but throwing stew into someone's face or smacking someone in the shoulder don't seem to me to be that bad of rp. Though usually I rp 'tries to slap %dwarf shoulder' instead of whether or not I've succeeded.

[Pale Horse]

To the above question, here is an example of a way that I would do so.  Don't take it as the right way, or as "good" RP, though.  It could very well not be.

Example:

Code Select Expand

emote sets a hand to %blue shoulder and gives a small tug to turn !blue around to face !me

What I intend to do, here, is to give the player who's PC's shoulder my character's hand is upon the idea that my PC is trying to turn their PC about.  Their response is entirely up to them, and they can come back with:

Code Select Expand

emote turning about at the urging, @ knots ^me eyebrows together and gives ~green a baleful stare

or

Code Select Expand

emote roughly shakes ^me shoulder, throwing off %green hand without a backwards glance

The difficulty that arises is that I personally don't see my first example as a "power emote", though other's might.  In this situation, if it's too much of an offensive thing for the other Player I would comply and stop doing so if they gave a little OOC hint that they think it's power emoting (even if I felt that it's unjustified), then seek a way to relay my PC's intentions in a way that doesn't seem "pushy".
On the other hand, if my PC's a jerk, they're going to reach out and shove, grasp, grope or backhand another PC if they felt like it.  There are times in RL when instances of physical contact or harm are inflicted on us from seemingly nowhere, and we have no time to properly react or defend ourselves.  I see letting my PC be the occasional brunt of a not so happy circumstance as adding to their appeal as a fully fleshed character, and to enliven the game world.

[NoteworthyFellow]

> emote sips from ~poisoned.

I'm surprised how often I see that last one, instead of a proper sip.

I want opinions on something I've done quite a bit like this.  I was playing a political-type character who was entering into some political-type talks with another character who just happened to like to drink.  A lot.  So, they of course sat down with a bottle of wine and proceeded to get very, very drunk.  My character knew what would happen if he got too drunk, he'd make poor choices, commit to things the entity he represented wouldn't have appreciated, that sort of thing, so after drinking a glass, he began to pretend to drink and pretend to get drunker.

I emoted something that looked identical to the code-generated message when someone sips from something, so as to fool the player (I'm firmly of the opinion that you must fool the player in order to fool the character in almost every case).  I immediately followed it up with:

phemote The level of wine in @ glass remains the same as he lowers it from his closed mouth.

I reasoned that it was certainly possible that a person could pretend to sip from something, but I wanted there to be a coded chance for my character to have been caught in the act.  The player, and thus the character, would see the "coded sip echo" and believe it was a sip like any other, but there'd be a chance that the character--and thus the player--would notice the phemote.  However, I did use emote code to represent something that, in most cases, should never be emoted--a coded echo.

I ask this not because this situation is still relevant--both characters involved are long-gone--but because I may wish to do something again in the future.  Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

[tortall]

Stuff

I personally would not, because if the PLAYER knows what's going on, then their character will be more likely to not believe the situation as well.

I have an instance for an example, but it hasn't been a year. :-p

[brytta.leofa]

Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

I think that's perfect usage.

[Gimfalisette]

I ask this not because this situation is still relevant--both characters involved are long-gone--but because I may wish to do something again in the future.  Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

Sounds awesome to me. Excellent use of hemote.

Also, to be kind of flippant but on-topic: Good RP is using hemote a lot

[Ampere]

Jazz.

So long as it's followed by an hemote, it's totally fine.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I sometimes emote sipping drinks that I'm drinking, I don't generally make it the exact same as the echo, just, in some cases, it seems more logical than a drink with only two sips in it. This is more for my characters than anyone elses, though.

[DustMight]

When making emotes identical to the code, but trying to fool another, I dislike trying to fool the player - that's akin to taking a newbie aside and leading him astray to kill his character and claim his bucks because he is a newbie.

You are fooling the player, not the character.

That said, my opinion formed before (and the imm who posted about making emotes identical to code) both happened prior to the introduction of hemote.

This is very edgy, in my opinion and think that it would really be useful to have a staff member's opinion on it.

Can we  get one?

I'll post in ask the staff, in case they aren't reading this.

[SMuz]

Actually, yeah, I'd agree with that. That's good use. You do have to fool the player to fool the character.

Though there are many cases when its bad. I think it depends on the situation. Because I have seen some people emote sipping things but obviously not drink from it. To be more specific of what I didn't like seeing:
> emote dabs some ~poisoned onto his hand.
> emote licks up the drops of ~poisoned on his hand.

All without use of sip.

[brytta.leofa]

When making emotes identical to the code, but trying to fool another, I dislike trying to fool the player - that's akin to taking a newbie aside and leading him astray to kill his character and claim his bucks because he is a newbie.

Fooling the player is a good thing and a favor to him.  In the main, it's better that I not know things my character doesn't know.

If you emote: ":takes a little sip from ~bottle; hemote doesn't really", you're actually, in a small way, sharing in-character information out-of-character.  The other player should be informed (or not) based on his PC's watch check, not because you told him "ooc um that was a fake sip."

[brytta.leofa]

Though there are many cases when its bad. I think it depends on the situation. Because I have seen some people emote sipping things but obviously not drink from it. To be more specific of what I didn't like seeing:
> emote dabs some ~poisoned onto his hand.
> emote licks up the drops of ~poisoned on his hand.
All without use of sip.

Definitely agree here.  I think it's fine to add emoted sips for color, but do stick them between coded sips.