What is considered bad RP?

[SMuz]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

Sleeping in the middle of the road, after an exhausting day outside? In a sandstorm?

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

Spam kicking/disarm in a battle to the death?

Cooking things without starting an actual fire? Or are all those pieces of bread really just uncooked dough?

Stealing the pants off someone who's asleep?

Haggling right up to the point where merchants get pissed, before accepting?

Disconnecting as soon as the RP gets boring.. if you're selling things and the stores won't buy more.. in the weekends/night if your clan is training.. if you're hunting and the animals haven't "respawned"..

[Yam]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

Mostly.

Sleeping in the middle of the road, after an exhausting day outside? In a sandstorm?

Yeah.

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

No.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

Maybe.

Spam kicking/disarm in a battle to the death?

No.

Cooking things without starting an actual fire? Or are all those pieces of bread really just uncooked dough?

No.

Stealing the pants off someone who's asleep?

Most definitely not. This is pretty much the pinnacle of Byn roleplay.

Haggling right up to the point where merchants get pissed, before accepting?

Nope.

Disconnecting as soon as the RP gets boring.. if you're selling things and the stores won't buy more.. in the weekends/night if your clan is training.. if you're hunting and the animals haven't "respawned"..

No.

[Cutthroat]

Also,

In the real world, we hardly ever see people going around mindlessly killing things, acquiring wealth, and never stopping to sleep, eat, drink, or socialise ... and if we do, they soon end up either dead or in a prison or mental institution. The same applies for Zalanthas (except that death is a far more prevalent treatment for such deluded behaviour).

Role-playing does not mean that all you are allowed to do is have your character sit around and talk to other characters all day. But it does mean that the staff expect you to try to play realistically. Thus, you should spend a fair amount of time playing out your character's occupation, but also spend time talking to people, walking around town, dining, scavenging, sleeping, and so on (whatever is appropriate for your character). Although it is just a game, try to imagine yourself as your character, and act as your character while in the game.

Think: would your character, for example, lie down and fall asleep in the middle of the road outside in stinging sand, where it's possible to get run over by the next carru/tarantula/argosy? Probably not... anyway, apply this same thinking to any other action you do and you should be fine. Hope that helps 

[Jingo]

A lot of these are circumstancial.

There's nothing wrong with shirking duties even if you boss is not online just so long as you don't only do it when your boss is online.

As far as cooking goes, there is nothing wrong with emoting up your own virtual fire, rather than a coded one. Hell, there's nothing wrong with emoting tossing your meat onto a rock and letting it cook in the sun.

It would be difficult to pull of in real life. But I wouldn't even have a problem if you stole my pants in my sleep, so long as you emote your actions outloud so they can echo in my sleep. That way I can choose to wake up and catch you in midsteal or stay in my drunken slumber.

Spamming skills in combat can be a death sentence, just so you know. If you really want to do it, I won't mind if you put out a thoughtful emote for every action you try to perform. I think I've met an npc or two that wouldn't even do that.

And finally, nobody expects you to play if you're bored. There's no shame in logging off if there's nothing happening, so long as you don't just log in for skill-training sessions and nothing else.

I didn't cover everything, but yeah. That's the way I see it. In general, remember to interact with the world through emotes, thinks and feels rather than just intereract with the game code.

[Cerelum]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

I have always felt that emotes are for the outside audience, so if you're by yourself spamming away, providing it's not for 8 hours in a row, then I think it's fine.  If someone else is with you, you should be emoting at least a bit.

Sleeping in the middle of the road, after an exhausting day outside? In a sandstorm?

I wouldn't consider this bad rp, but I would consider this extremely dangerous and would probably type wake dude, tell dude (gesturing around himself) Are you fuckin crazy man?

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

No, some of the best rp is when you're disobeying rules.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

From NPCS yes, because there has to be an active staffer to get the appropriate reaction from the npc half the time, but if you're doing this from players, and surviving, kudos to you.

Spam kicking/disarm in a battle to the death?

Not in a battle to the death, but if you're sparring with your bynner clanmate, yep.

Cooking things without starting an actual fire? Or are all those pieces of bread really just uncooked dough?

No, but you should goto a cooking area and emote using a fire if it's something you would actually cook, if it's peeling a fruit into sections that's cool anywhere.  But if you're making a scrab steak in the middle of the road, there is an issue.

Stealing the pants off someone who's asleep?

No, that actually sounds like something fun to do.

Haggling right up to the point where merchants get pissed, before accepting?

No, that's the best way TO haggle.

Disconnecting as soon as the RP gets boring.. if you're selling things and the stores won't buy more.. in the weekends/night if your clan is training.. if you're hunting and the animals haven't "respawned"..

Rp getting boring, nope.  Selling things and stores won't buy, yep, if you're not looking for rp before you jump ship.  Hunting and the animals haven't respawned is sorta twinkish to log and come back just to find more, but eh, I am of the feeling about hunting should be able to be done as much as you want, I'm not on the whole "don't overhunt" party.

[Synthesis]

Emoting != RP.

If I'm out digging for rocks and nobody is (apparently) around, I don't emote.

Why?  After ten years of emoting about looking for rocks...it gets reeeeeal old.

I'll save the dramatic digging and fumbling around for when other PCs are nearby.

[mansa]

Emoting != RP.

If I'm out digging for rocks and nobody is (apparently) around, I don't emote.

Why?  After ten years of emoting about looking for rocks...it gets reeeeeal old.

I'll save the dramatic digging and fumbling around for when other PCs are nearby.

Use scripts like everybody else, man.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I emote when I'm by myself all the time. 

In the first place, you never know when someone is watching, whether it's someone sneaking in the room with you, an Immortal, some sort of unnatural, or.. well, you just never know.  In the second, my emotes help keep me focused and in character.  Half of the time I emote it it's intended just as much to keep me in the mood as it is for anyone else around to get an idea of what my character's doing.

[Rairen]

I emote when I'm by myself all the time. 

In the first place, you never know when someone is watching, whether it's someone sneaking in the room with you, an Immortal, some sort of unnatural, or.. well, you just never know.  In the second, my emotes help keep me focused and in character.  Half of the time I emote it it's intended just as much to keep me in the mood as it is for anyone else around to get an idea of what my character's doing.

I've played long stretches of solo-RP roles, and it's jaded me a bit to the experience.  I rather wish that, if someone's watching for entertainment value, they could give some sort of subtle nod that they're there.  It'd motivate me, rather than trying to fill four hours constantly for several weeks, and I'm a fairly responsible player who rather enjoys having her characters knocked around and wouldn't abuse the knowledge.   (I'm a fast typer and usually go into a solo scene knowing what I want to do.  Can get it all out in fifteen to thirty minutes.  Anymore, I have to emote, go check the GDB, check the news, emote, read through the news again... just to keep the scene drawing out so that I don't run out of things to do.  I'd cut that stuff out if someone was there who cared.)

[Jingo]

It's something I'm trying to work on myself, I tend to fall into the trap of just spamming commands in my solo scenes.

But in the context of this thread, it's better to emote than not to. Especially if you're worried you're spamming, or if it's a bit twinkish.

[spicemustflow]

I never got the purpose of solo rp before, but forced myself to try it, and found that it's a great tool for motivating and amusing yourself. It makes me feel like I'm really there. But if I even think that somebody might be watching, I panic and get the urge to lose link.

[UnderSeven]

I disagree on the collpasing in the middle of the road one.  That could be very good rp.  If you have 20 move points (as s gross example) and drag yourself back to the compound, I mean does that really express your chars fatigue?  Maybe collpasing in the road (despite the dangers) if played out properly would be the better rp option here.

[Reiloth]

Bad RP is doing something IG due to OOC motivations, concerns, information, or reactions.

-Not killing a PC because it is your RL friend's PC
-Logging in to save your RL friend's PC
-Wishing up on behalf of another player
-Transmitting IC knowledge OOCly

In other words, if you are trying to play the character, I have no qualms with how you do it.

If you are trying to powergame, or play the 'game', then that is not really good RP at all.

[Clearsighted]

Bad RP is doing something IG due to OOC motivations, concerns, information, or reactions.

-Not killing a PC because it is your RL friend's PC
-Logging in to save your RL friend's PC
-Wishing up on behalf of another player
-Transmitting IC knowledge OOCly

In other words, if you are trying to play the character, I have no qualms with how you do it.

If you are trying to powergame, or play the 'game', then that is not really good RP at all.

What do you mean by wishing up on behalf of another player?

I've wished up to try and get people to be 'force quit' in an quit safe area after going link dead outside the walls.

Though, I've never actually had any response.

[musashi]

I would say that so long as your PC is behaving like a person IRL would under similiar circumstances, then you're in the gold.

To me it feels like saying anything more precise than that leaves you open to the "what if this circumstnace happened" type response.

[Xagon]

What if your character couldn't react, because they were a paraplegic? Huh? What then?

Erhm.. I think bad RP is when you act on -your- behalf, as opposed to your characters behalf. This general term seems to fit well, both here and in a D&D group I play in.

If you use "metagame" knowledge to do something with your character, that's bad RP.
If you play your character a certain way, then change due to OOC circumstances, that's bad RP.

If you know someone killed your last character, and build up your current one to take revenge..
If you find that sacred metal vein somewhere with one character, then "assault" it with your next who -should- know nothing about it..
If you spam-kill without an IC reason, cease when eyes are on you, and resume once they're off...

[Reiloth]

Bad RP is doing something IG due to OOC motivations, concerns, information, or reactions.

-Not killing a PC because it is your RL friend's PC
-Logging in to save your RL friend's PC
-Wishing up on behalf of another player
-Transmitting IC knowledge OOCly

In other words, if you are trying to play the character, I have no qualms with how you do it.

If you are trying to powergame, or play the 'game', then that is not really good RP at all.

What do you mean by wishing up on behalf of another player?

I've wished up to try and get people to be 'force quit' in an quit safe area after going link dead outside the walls.

Though, I've never actually had any response.

I mean to say something like:

"Hey, my friend just died, can he get a rez? He's dead so he can't wish up, but he sent an email, so I just wanted to let you guys know and maybe you could move his body."

Something that I have done, many years ago, in my newbdom!

Maintaining a barrier between RL and IG is the best way to go.

[SMuz]

A few of that doesn't really seem to apply to "if your character was there" principles. Especially the spam disarm/kick part. I wouldn't take the time to do a flashy disarm or kick in the middle of a tense battle, spamming it seems to be the only way to go.

So is stealing from unalert guards. And haggling to that point where you know the merchants will tolerate (or is that haggling skill?)

[Tisiphone]

So is stealing from unalert guards. And haggling to that point where you know the merchants will tolerate (or is that haggling skill?)

Regarding the haggling skill: I find no shame in squeezing every last coin from a merchant by 'gaming the code'; it seems that many of the proponents of the reverse have never in fact been to an Egyptian marketplace.

[musashi]

So is stealing from unalert guards. And haggling to that point where you know the merchants will tolerate (or is that haggling skill?)

Regarding the haggling skill: I find no shame in squeezing every last coin from a merchant by 'gaming the code'; it seems that many of the proponents of the reverse have never in fact been to an Egyptian marketplace.

Or Thailand, or the Phillipines, or Camboia and Louse ... and any other country where haggling is still the medium for exchange in most cases.

[SMuz]

Heh, I guess so. Here in Malaysia, some merchants actually overinflate their prices, to satisfy compulsive hagglers. Some actually give you a significant discount just for not haggling. I guess it's a Third World thing.. should even be a culture in Zalanthas. I should emote haggling, though, just for the fun of it

Ok, here's another one - "spam running". Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with running as far and as fast as you can, but people on the board talk as if it's unfair play.

[musashi]

I think the main concern is that typing n;e;n;e;n;e;n;e;n;e means you're gone like white lightning since it's only possible to scan in a cardinal direction.

Still, I don't think spam-running is that big of a deal. Running makes you lose stamina at a pretty abhorrant rate and someone with the tracking skill will just keep plodding along behind you like Pippy le Pue. A past character of mine tracked a delf down from one side of the known world to the other once ... so I don't find it to be too terribly abusive, as there are ways to overcome it.

[Clearsighted]

If people were meant to pause ten seconds before moving, all mounts and all PCs would have the same speeds. Sometimes swiftness is a life or death matter.

[LoD]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Your list implies that an activity, action, or choice is either good or bad RP.  However, role-playing is much more complicated because of the circumstances surrounding the event.  Is it appropriate for you to strip naked?  In private, yes.  In public, not always.  The conditions of the event play a large role into whether or not a given action is deemed "good" or "bad".

Bear in mind that if you try your best to play the character rather than the game, you will probably avoid repeating behavior that many would label as "Bad RP".

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

Rather than respond to every element in the list, I'd like to comment on this one.  Emoting is not the same as RP, but it can greatly enhance it and help tell your story.  As others have mentioned, you never know when people are watching you and you should also use emote to help entertain yourself by describing your character's action, feelings, and motivations.

Here are two examples of the same actions, with and without emotes/says.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Desert [NEWS]
A large obsidian deposit is here, half buried in the sand.

The burly, large-nosed man has arrived from the west.

The burly, large-nosed man wields a glass hacker.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.
A small chunk of obsidian falls away.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.
A large chunk of obsidian falls away.

The burly, large-nosed man picks up a small chunk of obsidian.
The burly, large-nosed man picks up a large chunk of obsidian.

The burly, large-nosed man walks east.

The actions here describe what the man is doing, and fulfill the minimum in way of output.  However, knowing that the command doesn't have any lag could mean that this scene was conducted in the span of 5 seconds, or the span of 5 minutes.  Be wary of assuming that something is appropriate because "the code allows for it to happen".  The code allows me to type "emote lifts a finger, causing the tavern to tremble violently before speeding off into outer space." -- but that doesn't make it acceptable RP.

Now, for a second look at the same system of actions.

Code Select Expand

Sandy Desert [NEWS]
A large obsidian deposit is here, half buried in the sand.

Looking over his shoulder, the burly, large-nosed man has arrived from the west.

Appearing nervous, the burly, large-nosed man wields a glass hacker.

The burly, large-nosed man takes a few steps toward a large obsidian deposit, taking care to face toward the northeast as he squints toward the horizon and folds his hands about a glass hacker.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

Tiny chips of dark obsidian fall to the sand as the burly, large-nosed man's glass hacker strikes the surface of the deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

Muttering to himself and gazing to the northeast again, the burly, large-nosed man says, in sirihish:
    "...fekkers better not try anythin' this time..."

Returning to his work, the burly, large-nosed man readies a glass hacker and brings it down sharply upon the deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.
A small chunk of obsidian falls away.

Reaching down toward the small piece of obsidian, the burly, large-nosed man suddenly crouches down and presses his back flat against the deposit.

Breathing raggedly, his features layered in sweat, the burly, large-nosed man says, in sirihish:
   "...fek...fek...fek...why did they have ta come this way..."

Easing up from his crouched position, the burly, large-nosed man peers over the edge of the deposit with a nervous squint, his dark tongue probing the ridges of his cracked lips.

Thrusting himself up suddenly and readying a glass hacker, the burly, large-nosed man says, in sirihish:
   "A'right -- time ta knock dis out an' get the krath back inta town."

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.

Grimacing, the burly, large-nosed man slams his glass hacker against the deposit quickly, his cheeks quivering slightly with the sharp impact of his tool to the stone.

The burly, large-nosed man swings a glass hacker at a large obsidian deposit.
A large chunk of obsidian falls away.

Breathing a quick sigh of relief, the burly, large-nosed man says, in sirihish:
   "Krath smile on me, that'll keep ole' Jak off mah back fer at least a week."

The burly, large-nosed man picks up a small chunk of obsidian.
The burly, large-nosed man picks up a large chunk of obsidian.

Casting one last glance toward the northeast, the burly, large-nosed man walks east.

Even though the execution of the code is exactly the same in each scenario, the use of emotes, says, and even perhaps thinks and feels can greatly enhance a given scene and potentially explain to observers (either seen or unseen) not only what your character is doing, but how they are doing it and perhaps why.  It's not that one of these scenes is the right way to RP, but an example of what else is possible and the type of atmosphere and story one can tell with your actions.

You're given so many tools as a player to create a vivid and living character, and I think it can be unfortunate if some players resign themselves to a more code-heavy style of play and demonstrate the many qualities of their characters only when they believe other characters are present.  There will be times when the quick and concise execution of code is not only desirable, but mandatory.  However, there's a nice balance to be struck between when the code can properly convey the actions of your character and when the player needs to use the tools available to them to enhance a scene and tell a story.

-LoD

[AJM]

Well said.... I had a big elaborate thing to say, but that pretty much got it.

[SMuz]

Stuff..

Huh, that was quite interesting. I thought it'd be tiresome to do that every time, but it makes a boring thing more exciting. Emoting makes eating stew more interesting

[Comrade Canadia]

Good and bad are unpleasant words because they're so darn subjective. My opinion of good RP might be drastically different than someone else's. There are a number of universal no-nos, the big one about interacting with the world through code alone was explained beautifully by LoD. There's a little more to it though.

The examples you listed makes me think you're overcautious about balancing code against roleplay. There are some simple rules to keep in mind:

If it can make rational sense in game, it's likely fine. Like, haggling with a merchant until he's ready to throw you out is not only fine, it's realistic. Stealing pants off of someone who's sleeping is not realistic. Try to envision it. I think if you spent a long while constructing the scene of the theft in such a way that it made sense in game, you could get away with it, but just yanking the pants off of some shmoe and then spam-walking goes against what LoD described. Stuff like logging off when you're bored is just simple logic. If a game isn't fun - DON'T PLAY IT. There's an argument for making your own fun, but we all play enough as is.

Good roleplay is about making the world around you come alive in a believable way. If we all RP well, suspension of disbelief is easy and the game becomes immersive. If we're all just automatons wandering around and spamming coded commands, there's no immersion and the game loses its special charm. So long as you're making the game come alive, do what you want with the code.

[DustMight]

OK, gotta help me and the other newbies out here, because some of us aren't sure which are acceptable and which aren't.

Spam-mining, cutting trees? Without emoting.

Bad RP. 

Sleeping in the middle of the road, after an exhausting day outside? In a sandstorm?

Not bad RP if you play it out right and change your ldesc to indicate you are doing just that.  Put your hood up, huddle, seek some pathetic shelter.

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

No. This is fine if your character has this as part of his personality.  If you slack off because you're bored (versus your character) then it is poor RP.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

Hm. Touchy.  I would say maybe - I would probably be tempted to do this.  Actually it is poor RP and I've decided I wouldn't do this.

Spam kicking/disarm in a battle to the death?

Some might say no, but spamming anything is bad. "Spam" means bad, right? I mean, that's why we use the term.  Kick, emote, kick emote is far better.

Cooking things without starting an actual fire? Or are all those pieces of bread really just uncooked dough?

I say no, but I emote a fire.  I also emote letting things cook or dry on the rocks or whatever.

Stealing the pants off someone who's asleep?

If your character is the type to steal then, um, no.

Haggling right up to the point where merchants get pissed, before accepting?

Not if your character is the haggling type and doesn't mind loosing a sale.

Disconnecting as soon as the RP gets boring.. if you're selling things and the stores won't buy more.. in the weekends/night if your clan is training.. if you're hunting and the animals haven't "respawned"..

No.  Boredom kills.

[Pale Horse]

On a different vein, power emoting is also considered "poor RP."  By "power emoting" I mean like typing out:

Code Select Expand

emote swings ^me sword, slicing through ^tall throat, sending a geyser of blood spewing into the air!

If you did this without actually engaging in the combat code, you're power emoting.  You're trying to "win", make your character always on the "winning" end.

Also, describing how another PC feels or thinks is a form of power emoting (unless you're a mindbender, then by all means, force them to think and feel how you want them to..provided ooc consent is given, if you're in to that sort of thing).

Example:

Code Select Expand

pemo wandering into the room, @ attention darts towards ~mul, ^me black-rimmed irises piercing ^mul eyes, sending a jolt of fear through !mul, making !mul think it would be a bad idea to bother !me.

There, I just tried to force an emotion and a feeling on someone else's PC (or NPC).  I can't do that.  How that PC (NPC) reacts is totally up to the discretion of their player, not me (and conversely, you).

[brytta.leofa]

Two that jumped out at me:

Going against clan rules (not doing duty) when you know that the senior ranking clan members aren't around? What if you're in a small unit and your bosses just died or got transferred to another city?

If "not around" means "off in the other city-state," this is fine.  If it means "logged off," it's pretty horrifical: there's really no in-character explanation for Merchant Bob being offline.

Peeking/stealing from NPCs, but not from PCs? Vice versa?

The real problem you're trying to avoid is of antagonizing the people who see you everyday.  Look at it another way: 'til you get good at it, it's very acceptable to only peek 'n' steal from people who satisfy the following conditions:
(a) not someone you recognize from your favorite tavern,
(b) not in the employ of rich, influential people, and, if possible,
(c) not in the neighborhood in which you live.

[Malken]

Bad rp is watching a guy playing a really high karma class spamming his skill 20 times in a row, in less than thirty seconds, without emoting before, in between or after.

So sad. Sometimes I think I suck so bad I don't even know why I have more than -2 karma, then I see this, and it gives me confidence.

[Lizzie]

It's because you're the *charming* twink, Malken. Charm negates twinkery by 4 points.

On topic: Bad RP is anything that isn't how I RP, or anything that isn't better than how I RP. Except for Malken, for the reason already mentioned. That brings him to 1 point higher than I am in good RPness.

[LoD]

On a different vein, power emoting is also considered "poor RP."  By "power emoting" I mean like typing out:

Code Select Expand

emote swings ^me sword, slicing through ^tall throat, sending a geyser of blood spewing into the air!

Code Select Expand

pemo wandering into the room, @ attention darts towards ~mul, ^me black-rimmed irises piercing ^mul
eyes, sending a jolt of fear through !mul, making !mul think it would be a bad idea to bother !me.

This is something that probably can be reiterated as we get new players because, while these are fairly obvious and strong examples, power emoting can be much more subtle.  And there are even different categories of power emoting that I've seen done.

Physical contact without code.

> emote roughly shoves ~man backwards.
> emote throws a piping hot bowl of stew in %dwarf face.
> emote laughs as a rumbling caravan strikes a puddle, kicking mud up onto ~woman.

Using NPC's to support your character's cause.

> emote sneers as several of the bar patrons point and laugh at ~elf.
> emote plays the last note of his carefully-strummed song, relaxing his grip on his mandolin as the crowded tavern erupts into applause.

Forcing someone into a specific position or location.

> emote suddenly corners you in the alleyway, cutting off %man escape!
> emote steps forward, forcing ~merchant into the adjoining alleyway with the press of a sharp-bladed dirk.
> emote appears behind ~man, pressing the blade of ~knife against %man throat.

Using the IC board as a vehicle to represent public opinion.

> Rumors swirl about the tavern that a man by the name of Rijak has been looking to hire on a few hands for an escort operation.  Even though people say he speaks with a southern accent, most folks around town have been happy with his services and claim that he's trustworthy.

There can be a lot of gray areas surrounding emoting, especially when people are getting used to the system or coming from other games.

-LoD

[SMuz]

Ah, so true. I never saw any power emoting in the form Pale Horse says, not in Armageddon, but the type LoD says is fairly common.

Also, the type which RPs against what would codedly happen.

> emote picks up a bed, and throws it at ~man.
> emote easily picks up some 30-stone weights in each hand. (with an average STR character who has a sdesc of being strong)
> emote hides his hand inside his cloak (i.e. you don't see the sword in my hand)
> emote sips from ~poisoned.

I'm surprised how often I see that last one, instead of a proper sip.

[Ashes]

Unless, of course, you can:

>g bed
You pick up a four-poster stone bed.

Or accompany >em sips from ~skin with >hem doesn't swallow, but carefully pushes the fluid into her cheek.

Alot of the power-emoting examples are really just emotes that should be accompanied with other indications or coded action.  For example, if your half-giant has Amos subdued, feel free to emote shaking him around.

[SMuz]

Picking up a bed certainly doesn't mean that you could throw it. I've seen someone emote throwing something at someone, but because it was too heavy, > drop item (with a feeble toss, ~item hits the ground far short of !item mark)

[Ashes]

True.  Maybe I should have been more specific:

You pick up a four-poster stone bed.
It is very light.

[DustMight]

Or accompany >em sips from ~skin with >hem doesn't swallow, but carefully pushes the fluid into her cheek.

This is terrible, actually because you are assuming you know how the poison works - does it work in the stomach?  Maybe it can be absorbed in the muscosal lining of the mouth, eh?

I believe I have heard the staff in the past mention something against emoting exactly a coded action, but maybe that no longer applies?

The intent here, of course, by emoting such a thing is to mislead the player and not the character.  Thus, this is a bad
roleplay.

To add another - is when a character is standing with weapons drawn but changes his ldesc to indicate he is sleeping.  Utter twinkery. 

[deviant storm]

Physical contact without code.

> emote roughly shoves ~man backwards.
> emote throws a piping hot bowl of stew in %dwarf face.
> emote laughs as a rumbling caravan strikes a puddle, kicking mud up onto ~woman.

So what is the proper method to rp then, when you want physical contact of some sort and you don't want to initiate combat? Should every action have to be codedly done to be 'good'?

I agree that some of the above examples might be poor form, but throwing stew into someone's face or smacking someone in the shoulder don't seem to me to be that bad of rp. Though usually I rp 'tries to slap %dwarf shoulder' instead of whether or not I've succeeded.

[Pale Horse]

To the above question, here is an example of a way that I would do so.  Don't take it as the right way, or as "good" RP, though.  It could very well not be.

Example:

Code Select Expand

emote sets a hand to %blue shoulder and gives a small tug to turn !blue around to face !me

What I intend to do, here, is to give the player who's PC's shoulder my character's hand is upon the idea that my PC is trying to turn their PC about.  Their response is entirely up to them, and they can come back with:

Code Select Expand

emote turning about at the urging, @ knots ^me eyebrows together and gives ~green a baleful stare

or

Code Select Expand

emote roughly shakes ^me shoulder, throwing off %green hand without a backwards glance

The difficulty that arises is that I personally don't see my first example as a "power emote", though other's might.  In this situation, if it's too much of an offensive thing for the other Player I would comply and stop doing so if they gave a little OOC hint that they think it's power emoting (even if I felt that it's unjustified), then seek a way to relay my PC's intentions in a way that doesn't seem "pushy".
On the other hand, if my PC's a jerk, they're going to reach out and shove, grasp, grope or backhand another PC if they felt like it.  There are times in RL when instances of physical contact or harm are inflicted on us from seemingly nowhere, and we have no time to properly react or defend ourselves.  I see letting my PC be the occasional brunt of a not so happy circumstance as adding to their appeal as a fully fleshed character, and to enliven the game world.

[NoteworthyFellow]

> emote sips from ~poisoned.

I'm surprised how often I see that last one, instead of a proper sip.

I want opinions on something I've done quite a bit like this.  I was playing a political-type character who was entering into some political-type talks with another character who just happened to like to drink.  A lot.  So, they of course sat down with a bottle of wine and proceeded to get very, very drunk.  My character knew what would happen if he got too drunk, he'd make poor choices, commit to things the entity he represented wouldn't have appreciated, that sort of thing, so after drinking a glass, he began to pretend to drink and pretend to get drunker.

I emoted something that looked identical to the code-generated message when someone sips from something, so as to fool the player (I'm firmly of the opinion that you must fool the player in order to fool the character in almost every case).  I immediately followed it up with:

phemote The level of wine in @ glass remains the same as he lowers it from his closed mouth.

I reasoned that it was certainly possible that a person could pretend to sip from something, but I wanted there to be a coded chance for my character to have been caught in the act.  The player, and thus the character, would see the "coded sip echo" and believe it was a sip like any other, but there'd be a chance that the character--and thus the player--would notice the phemote.  However, I did use emote code to represent something that, in most cases, should never be emoted--a coded echo.

I ask this not because this situation is still relevant--both characters involved are long-gone--but because I may wish to do something again in the future.  Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

[tortall]

Stuff

I personally would not, because if the PLAYER knows what's going on, then their character will be more likely to not believe the situation as well.

I have an instance for an example, but it hasn't been a year. :-p

[brytta.leofa]

Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

I think that's perfect usage.

[Gimfalisette]

I ask this not because this situation is still relevant--both characters involved are long-gone--but because I may wish to do something again in the future.  Would anyone here consider that abuse of the emote code?

Sounds awesome to me. Excellent use of hemote.

Also, to be kind of flippant but on-topic: Good RP is using hemote a lot

[Ampere]

Jazz.

So long as it's followed by an hemote, it's totally fine.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I sometimes emote sipping drinks that I'm drinking, I don't generally make it the exact same as the echo, just, in some cases, it seems more logical than a drink with only two sips in it. This is more for my characters than anyone elses, though.

[DustMight]

When making emotes identical to the code, but trying to fool another, I dislike trying to fool the player - that's akin to taking a newbie aside and leading him astray to kill his character and claim his bucks because he is a newbie.

You are fooling the player, not the character.

That said, my opinion formed before (and the imm who posted about making emotes identical to code) both happened prior to the introduction of hemote.

This is very edgy, in my opinion and think that it would really be useful to have a staff member's opinion on it.

Can we  get one?

I'll post in ask the staff, in case they aren't reading this.

[SMuz]

Actually, yeah, I'd agree with that. That's good use. You do have to fool the player to fool the character.

Though there are many cases when its bad. I think it depends on the situation. Because I have seen some people emote sipping things but obviously not drink from it. To be more specific of what I didn't like seeing:
> emote dabs some ~poisoned onto his hand.
> emote licks up the drops of ~poisoned on his hand.

All without use of sip.

[brytta.leofa]

When making emotes identical to the code, but trying to fool another, I dislike trying to fool the player - that's akin to taking a newbie aside and leading him astray to kill his character and claim his bucks because he is a newbie.

Fooling the player is a good thing and a favor to him.  In the main, it's better that I not know things my character doesn't know.

If you emote: ":takes a little sip from ~bottle; hemote doesn't really", you're actually, in a small way, sharing in-character information out-of-character.  The other player should be informed (or not) based on his PC's watch check, not because you told him "ooc um that was a fake sip."

[brytta.leofa]

Though there are many cases when its bad. I think it depends on the situation. Because I have seen some people emote sipping things but obviously not drink from it. To be more specific of what I didn't like seeing:
> emote dabs some ~poisoned onto his hand.
> emote licks up the drops of ~poisoned on his hand.
All without use of sip.

Definitely agree here.  I think it's fine to add emoted sips for color, but do stick them between coded sips.

[Niamh]

The problem with coded sipping IMO is that there are some container items that will go from full to empty with one sip.  That is hardly realistic, and there is nothing wrong with emoting sipping from said containers rather than doing the coded sip or drink so that you don't chug it all down in one go.

[Dar]

The problem with coded sipping IMO is that there are some container items that will go from full to empty with one sip.  That is hardly realistic, and there is nothing wrong with emoting sipping from said containers rather than doing the coded sip or drink so that you don't chug it all down in one go.

So ? Emote with an empty container. It doesnt mention <empty> in it's sdesc if you include it into an emote. I too agree that you should drink, if you emote doing it. I too have seen the overcautious people who gladly accept the drinks offered, emote drinking it, but fail to drink the real poisoned brew you made. Personally I think that's pretty twinky.

[brytta.leofa]

So ? Emote with an empty container. It doesnt mention <empty> in it's sdesc if you include it into an emote. I too agree that you should drink, if you emote doing it. I too have seen the overcautious people who gladly accept the drinks offered, emote drinking it, but fail to drink the real poisoned brew you made. Personally I think that's pretty twinky.

'Course, it's possible that you missed their hemotes.

[Malken]

I always say that hemote is if you want everyone in the room BUT your target to see something 

[SMuz]

Just bumping because I have a simple question:

Let's say, there's this hooded figure who absolutely refuses to take down his/her hood. Now I get plenty of time to look at them up and down because they're like there drinking tea and stuff, enough to realistically see the face as least, even with the lowered hood (I mean srsly, how can you hide your face under your hood like that?).

So, it is fine if I contact them to see the sdesc?

[Lizzie]

Personally, I would try targetting potential keywords before resorting to waying to identify. So like..

The hooded figure is here.
This man has been hideously mutilated, to the point where most of his face and body is a mass of lumpy scars, with smooth flesh obscured by keloids. One eyeball is missing, and the lids sewn permanently shut. His right arm bears thousands of skin tags, each a brown pinch on burn-scorched flesh. And so on and so forth.

Now, hopefully, if the imms didn't let another one slip, this guy isn't sdesc'ed as "the tall thin male." Because that would be...32 flavors of cheating as far as I'm concerned and the imm who approves that sdesc needs to be tied to a waterboard and pelted with wet, al-dente lasagna noodles until he weeps.

Hopefully, if the player isn't trying to pull a fast one, the sdesc will -probably- have at least one of the following keywords in it: hideously, hideous, mutilated, man, scarred, lumpy, one-eyed, scorched.

I'd try emote glances at ~mutilated with a shudder or hemote catches a glimpse of %lumpy scorched flesh, and turns her gaze quickly away again

or something like that. Something that would let him know, IF any of those are keywords, that you noticed that he's deliciously disgusting. If they're not keywords, you'll get an error. If a few don't work, I'd shift to the "look lumpy's cloak" and "look scorched's ring" to rule out the next possibilities. If you try a few of the more obvious options and none of them work, then yeah I might consider waying as a last resort.

Truly, my opinion is that anyone who includes really awesome descriptions in their main description, and uses completely "other" words in their sdesc (or vice versa) is circumventing the whole point of having sdescs. It's so people can readily identify the -most noticeable things- about your character at a glance.

[SMuz]

..but.. what if he has one of those unpronounceable sdescs? Like half the cloaked ones always do. Good idea, though, but it only seems to work on newbies, who use simple things like "the tall, muscular man" and "the blonde, buxom female half-elf".

[Lizzie]

The answer to that is simple, then:

draw dagger
kill hooded