Apartments and safety

[Ourla]

Is this a new thing? You didn't used to be able to re-lock doors with a lockpick.  If so, it's very cool.

This skill will allow your character to unlock objects or doors that are locked (if successful). Passersby don't always appreciate folks picking the locks on doors, so this skill ought to be used with caution.

Very skilled individuals can even relock doors and objects with this skill.

[Salt Merchant]

Is this a new thing? You didn't used to be able to re-lock doors with a lockpick.  If so, it's very cool.

This skill will allow your character to unlock objects or doors that are locked (if successful). Passersby don't always appreciate folks picking the locks on doors, so this skill ought to be used with caution.

Very skilled individuals can even relock doors and objects with this skill.

Yes, it is a new thing. It was introduced some time last year, I think.

[Vanth]

I think representing the NPC population in terms of housing, even if it -is- simple tenements, would make the burglar class a lot more viable and a lot less a thorn in the side of the PC population.

So to be fair, then, should we also create NPC burglars to rob your apartment if one of the PC burglars hasn't gotten around to it yet?

Or should we let the NPC population burgle the NPC population, and let the PCs do the same for each other?

[Synthesis]

I think representing the NPC population in terms of housing, even if it -is- simple tenements, would make the burglar class a lot more viable and a lot less a thorn in the side of the PC population.

So to be fair, then, should we also create NPC burglars to rob your apartment if one of the PC burglars hasn't gotten around to it yet?

Or should we let the NPC population burgle the NPC population, and let the PCs do the same for each other?

By that logic, we should have NPC hunters to hunt the NPC animals, and players should be allowed to app scrabs and duskhorn.

P.S. That actually sounds like a lot of fun.

[Vanth]

By that logic, we should have NPC hunters to hunt the NPC animals, and players should be allowed to app scrabs and duskhorn.

That is what 9 karma is for.

[Salt Merchant]

I think representing the NPC population in terms of housing, even if it -is- simple tenements, would make the burglar class a lot more viable and a lot less a thorn in the side of the PC population.

So to be fair, then, should we also create NPC burglars to rob your apartment if one of the PC burglars hasn't gotten around to it yet?

Or should we let the NPC population burgle the NPC population, and let the PCs do the same for each other?

Say 1 in 20 PCs is a burglar.

Say Allanak has 500,000 people. Applying the same ratio implies there are 25,000 operating burglars in Allanak.

A whole army must take to the streets at night. Does it sound reasonable?

[Dar]

say 1 in 10 PCs is an assassin. Let's assume to get good, an assassin needs to backstab 200 times. (Figure taken off the ceiling, holds none at all resemblence to ... anything real). Does it mean that Allanak is a graveyard because assassins killed everyone, trying to practice?


Stop operating figures that have no particular meaning or reasoning, or possibly even foundation.

[Salt Merchant]

say 1 in 10 PCs is an assassin. Let's assume to get good, an assassin needs to backstab 200 times. (Figure taken off the ceiling, holds none at all resemblence to ... anything real). Does it mean that Allanak is a graveyard because assassins killed everyone, trying to practice?


Stop operating figures that have no particular meaning or reasoning, or possibly even foundation.

Vanth presented a reasoned argument based on PCs vs NPCs and I responded to it. So butt out, please?

[Qzzrbl]

To my understanding, we play the exceptions of Zalanthas, and not average Amos streetsweeper (Some people even play that, but that's besides the point), so comparing the PC and NPC and VNPC populations won't really lead anywhere. Not to say that there aren't any NPC or VNPC assassins and burglars, but again, besides the point. 

Back to apartment security!

/derail pls. :3

[Salt Merchant]

To my understanding, we play the exceptions of Zalanthas, and not average Amos streetsweeper (Some people even play that, but that's besides the point), so comparing the PC and NPC and VNPC populations won't really lead anywhere. Not to say that there aren't any NPC or VNPC assassins and burglars, but again, besides the point. 

Back to apartment security!

/derail pls. :3

It's what I was getting at. If you assert that my example is ridiculous, then so too is Vanth's, because implicit to Vanth's assertion is that the ratio of PC burglars to the PC population and rentable apartments (absurdly high and the real problem here) is mirrored by the ratio of NPC burglars to NPC population and apartments and so reflects "reality" (namely every apartment or dwelling in the city being cleaned out lock, stock and barrel on a regular, even periodic, basis).

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think NPC residents and hired NPC guards will take care of the problem a great deal. Yes, you'll still get robbed, but if there are more targets, burglars will likely err to the side of ripping off the NPC more than the PC.

It won't solve the problem. It'll just help it.

[Twilight]

The original "tenement" had only a few PC inhabitable, empty rooms, intended for Nenyuk to rent out.  The rest of the rooms had NPCs in them.  Including one room with an aggro NPC, at least as it was submitted.  The problem with it was that it wasn't dynamic enough.

With the apartment code, perhaps 1 or 2 rooms should be "rented out" to NPCs, that rotate which room it is they are renting.  So you don't know where they are.  NPC's could do fund and interesting things like:

-a militia or templar aide npc that auto crim flags anyone it sees entering "its" room.
-an afraid commoner that panics and flees
-a scripted NPC that goes to the doorman, loading up an NPC guard.  Guard progresses to the room, and at that point flags aggressive.  Script to unflag it and de-load.
-a hidden, backstabbing, not too interested in being disturbed NPC.
-an NPC couple in the throws of mudsex.  Just copy some PC's sessions for an emote script.
-a really rich NPC merchant with a really badass guard
-an NPC with a script to close and lock the door behind the intruder.  Then let the Cthulu-like nightmare begin.
-a scripted, wandering guard in the hallway.  Script would have it move and look into adjoining rooms.  If person in rentable room is not the renter or added to rent and if such a person is not in the room, move and attack said person.

[Delstro]

How about wandering NPCs head home for the night/midday?

[Thunkkin]

-a militia or templar aide npc that auto crim flags anyone it sees entering "its" room.
-an afraid commoner that panics and flees
-a scripted NPC that goes to the doorman, loading up an NPC guard.  Guard progresses to the room, and at that point flags aggressive.  Script to unflag it and de-load.
-a hidden, backstabbing, not too interested in being disturbed NPC.
-an NPC couple in the throws of mudsex.  Just copy some PC's sessions for an emote script.
-a really rich NPC merchant with a really badass guard
-an NPC with a script to close and lock the door behind the intruder.  Then let the Cthulu-like nightmare begin.
-a scripted, wandering guard in the hallway.  Script would have it move and look into adjoining rooms.  If person in rentable room is not the renter or added to rent and if such a person is not in the room, move and attack said person.

Wonderful idea.  Wonderful.

[Salt Merchant]

The original "tenement" had only a few PC inhabitable, empty rooms, intended for Nenyuk to rent out.  The rest of the rooms had NPCs in them.  Including one room with an aggro NPC, at least as it was submitted.  The problem with it was that it wasn't dynamic enough.

With the apartment code, perhaps 1 or 2 rooms should be "rented out" to NPCs, that rotate which room it is they are renting.  So you don't know where they are.  NPC's could do fund and interesting things like:

-a militia or templar aide npc that auto crim flags anyone it sees entering "its" room.
-an afraid commoner that panics and flees
-a scripted NPC that goes to the doorman, loading up an NPC guard.  Guard progresses to the room, and at that point flags aggressive.  Script to unflag it and de-load.
-a hidden, backstabbing, not too interested in being disturbed NPC.
-an NPC couple in the throws of mudsex.  Just copy some PC's sessions for an emote script.
-a really rich NPC merchant with a really badass guard
-an NPC with a script to close and lock the door behind the intruder.  Then let the Cthulu-like nightmare begin.
-a scripted, wandering guard in the hallway.  Script would have it move and look into adjoining rooms.  If person in rentable room is not the renter or added to rent and if such a person is not in the room, move and attack said person.

Excellent ideas (so long as care is taken not to make burglary impossible).

[Angela Christine]

EDIT: also, what happens to shared living space? You go home and bar the door and your wife suddenly can't get in?

This is trickier. 

Maybe have two apartment types.

Room 1) A small crappy room with a crappy lock
Room 2) A small crappy room with a big bar for the door

If you want to get snuggly with a roommate, rent room #1.  If you want your own room that, while you are sleeping, you can bar the door, rent room #2.

Some of the bigger apartments have two rooms.  In those places you could get the best of both worlds by having a regular lock on the front door, and a bar on the inner chamber door.  That way you have some security, but if you collect a tonne of junk, you are going to have to store some of it in the less secure outer room. 


Another option is apartments that have more than one exit.  Like if your room has a regular front door, and then a ladder and trap door that leads up to the roof (flat roof space is a valuable open air sitting/sleeping area durring hot, clear weather), and a window with a latching shutter.

• The front door locks and can be barred.  It is big enough for any PC to walk through (including half-giants or cendi, as the case may be).  You can easily maneuver through it while dragging or carrying a chest or any other large but movable furniture.  There should be a small but significant chance of "the neighbours" noticing you picking the lock, and notifying the crime code.
  
  
  
• The trap door to the roof has a lock, but not a bar.  (Or possibly a bar but not a lock, if  there is some coded way for bars to be foiled.  Or perhaps just a lower quality lock than the main entrance.  In any event, it is less secure than the front door.)  It is possible to get through the roof from other roofs or from the ground using some sort of acrobatic skills like climbing and jumping.  Due to the fact that it is only intended to provide basic roof access and is reached via ladder,  it is not big to push large items through, nor is it large enough for half-giants, cendi, or anyone who is heavily encumbered.  Since there is little or no legitimate through traffic on roofs, the chance of a "bystander" alerting the authorities (crime code) is quite low.
  
  
  
• The shutters on the window latch or have a crappy lock.  A latch would be better, because installing a key lock on the outside of your window shutters is asinine.  A latch could work almost exactly like a lock, it is mainly a cosmetic difference.  With appropriate tools (for example a slender lever, or some sort of small hook attached to a thin, strong line, or perhaps even regular picks) and skills, the latch can be finessed from the outside.  Anyway, there is some possibility of getting the shutters open from the outside.  Getting to the window requires a climb (either up from the ground or down from the roof, depending on terrain) because even first floor windows tend to be placed high on the wall in hot climates to encourage heat loss.  Desert windows also tend quite small, either short or narrow, to minimize the amount of dust and heat that enters through them, so you have to be on the small side to wriggle through them, perhaps not more than 7 stone in weight.  You also can not be more than moderately encumbered.  The lock on the shutters isn't that tough, but hanging off a wall fiddling with the shutters from the outside is an innately suspicious activity, so if anyone notices you it will be obvious that you are up to no good.  The chance of activating the crime code here is fairly high, and increases the more time you spend on the wall.
  
  
  
• For bonus points, have the room unlit.  It will be lit by ambient light from the hallway if the hall door is open.  It will be lit by sunlight if the trapdoor or shutters are open, but only during the day.  Other than that, if you want a light in the room you need to provide a candle or lantern that you pay for yourself (there could be a built in lantern, but it will run out of oil and need to be refilled at your own cost like a normal lantern).  This will encourage cheapskates to open their shutters once in a while, and will provide a minor financial drain for people who are living the high life and want too keep their rooms brightly lit all day and all night.  It would also increase realism, and give PCs who enjoy decorating their rooms with candles and lanterns a reason to do so.    

A barred door shouldn't be impenetrable though.  At the very least a strong person should be able to Bash it off its hinges.  The average door simply is not built to withstand a battering ram or a determined half-giant.  Smashing a door down should be very noisy, and have a very high chance of alerting law enforcement.  Some people have no finesse, and simply go for the smash and grab.  Making doors smashable would also ensure that the local law enforcement officials can break into a room in an emergency, without needing staff assistance.  Smashing a door breaks the door, the lock, or both, and it will not function properly until it is repaired.

[Chettaman]

If you want to get snuggly with a roommate, rent room #1.

He he, apartments have special rooms for that sort of occasion. Rent it for varied number of days for varied amount of coins.

[Ampere]

Skill Pick                                                        (General)

   This skill will allow your character to unlock objects or doors that are
locked (if successful). Passersby don't always appreciate folks picking the
locks on doors, so this skill ought to be used with caution.
   Very skilled individuals can even relock doors and objects with this
skill.

Syntax:
   pick object
   pick object relock
   pick exitname
   pick exitname direction
   pick exitname relock
   pick exitname direction relock


Examples:
   > pick chest

   > pick door

   > pick door north

   > pick chest relock

Notes:
   Some type of lock picking device is required, and must be equipped.

   Doors have difficulty levels based on the complexity of the lock. If
your character's skill isn't high enough, the message should be quite
explicit.

Delay: before

See also:
   lock, unlock

As a courtesy, please?

[spawnloser]

I don't know what you people are talking about... but my last two characters kept all their money in their apartment instead of using the bank and I was never robbed.  I must be lucky.

Oh, and Salt Merchant, your example IS comparing apples to oranges.  Do you go around assassinating VNPCs?  How about pickpocketing them?  How about hunting them?  How about protecting someone with your Bynner buddies from them when on the way to Luir's?  No.  VNPCs are environment.  You interact with them through emotes only, not in coded ways.  So go ahead and emote at VNPC burglars and VNPC housing, but you'll have to have PC apartments and PC burglars interact with each other.  And before you say something about NPC instead of VNPC, sure, go ahead and make NPC housing... but if you do that, we'll also need NPC burglars.  You can't pick which part of a concept to include or deny.

Them's my two cents.

[Agent_137]

i agree that ICly there should be ways to throw enough sid at the problem to make it go away for all but the most epic of burglars.

i.e. the good suggestions of renting by yourself so you can bar the door, or npc guards, or whatever.

But to me the most frustrating thing about this is the play time issue. It's like trying to assassinate someone's char. You can't exactly PM their player for ideal play times.

maybe each apartment should have an OOC sign that the player can set with his playtimes. And any burglars caught stealing outside that timespan would get a tally mark on their account. Enough tallymarks and you lose karma.

heh. maybe even a similar solution for assassination.

[Ampere]

Um, I wasn't whining about being robbed.  I was upset that they left the damn door open.

[Agent_137]

Um, I wasn't whining about being robbed.  I was upset that they left the damn door open.

oh maybe they were just a noob burglar. It only makes sense to close and lock it back in the hope that the person won't even notice they were robbed, and submit a request for item replacement.

[number13]

maybe each apartment should have an OOC sign that the player can set with his playtimes. And any burglars caught stealing outside that timespan would get a tally mark on their account. Enough tallymarks and you lose karma.

Imagine a circle of apartment buildings -- arranged like a clock as each building has a time frame in which it is vulnerable. The player chooses the building closest to his own play time, increasing the likelihood that he or a neighbor will be on hand to potentially foil any burglary attempts.

Embarrassingly enough, I don't know whether or not pick breaks hide/sneak. It should.  Additionally, it should be exceptionally difficult to hide in certain enclosed spaces, with hefty bonuses granted to anyone scanning that area. (cramped corridors, small apartments, small backrooms in bars, small offices and other meeting chambers.)