Should elementalists be removed from the game, with sorcerers left in?

[Salt Merchant]

Why not just remove elementalists from the game and be done with it. We've all read the topic-that-will-not-die, the hydra-like-we-hate-magickers-thread that, beheaded, simply grows two new ones. I've had enough.

Leave sorcerers in.

It's no great joy to play a gemmed mage if you're an active sort of player. You get the impression that, nowadays, every time your mage so much as shows his face, he's ruining someone's game experience. Playing a rogue mage isn't much better, with guild sniffing and mindworming and such going on. Nuts to it.

Closing up shop on elementalists means more players for other clans also.

I'm serious this time. The constant attacks and negative comments have worn me down.

[Jingo]

Interesting question. But... I'm going to have to say no.

I've allways wondered why there were more mage classes that mundanes. Couldn't we just cut out a few of the elementalist classes?
Or better yet, just choose elementalist as a guild and then choose an element in character creation?

I do agree that there is something to be desired from the mage roleplay expierience. I'm playing a mage right now and am none-too-happy with the branching (spamcast) system.

[Yam]

No.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm not seeing the logic here.

You're saying that you don't like playing mages anymore, therefor no one should be allowed to play mages anymore?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm not sure what I think. I'd have to say no, probably ... but the idea behind the question is a good one. As I have said many times before, I think Mages need to be controlled by number-in-game, and I further think that the feeling towards them in Allanak needs to disappear. Keep the innate hatred elsewhere, where your King has not sanctioned them having a Quarter for Ages.

[Cutthroat]

No. I just don't think the described problem is as bad as some people make it out to be.

[fourTwenty]

No, but can we please get rid of beetles?

[Salt Merchant]

I'm not seeing the logic here.

You're saying that you don't like playing mages anymore, therefor no one should be allowed to play mages anymore?

Not exactly. More like things have developed over the years to a point where I think it might do the game more good than ill.

Those keen on playing mages could still special-app sorcerer characters (or create them normally if they have enough karma). Currently living elementalists would stay in the game. They'd both suddenly be a lot more special in this context and more in keeping with how people seem to want mages to be (namely extra rare).

[Malifaxis]

There aren't enough font options or size options to put enough emphasis in my 'No' vote.

[Zoltan]

No. I just don't think the described problem is as bad as some people make it out to be.

[musashi]

I picked hell no, because I do enjoy what elementalists bring to the table.

As Jingo touched on though ... I often times wonder if we got just a little too carried away in making those elementalist guilds. Having not played all of them, of course, I admit my opinion is based solely on speculation but, I always thought the lightening, and shadow elementalists were a bit ... well ... of a stretch.

Call me a Legend of the Five Rings fan ... but I'm of the mind that earth, fire, wind, water, and the void between them just about sums up the whole of creation, and just from a glance, the addition of shadow, and lightening as their own element seems a bit tacked on to me. I always figured that Krathi could bicker with Vivaduans and be just as justified, and that most of what a lightening elementalist can do could likely be split between Whirans and Krathi.

But, that's just musing of an idle mind. They're already in game, they already have a history surrounding them, so I'm cool with them staying there and wouldn't ever try to put out a call to see them removed.

To talk a bit about the title of the thread though ... without elementalists, I doubt that sorcerers would be half as scary/powerful/awesome as they're thought to be now.

To me, the fact that elementalists are limited to their one element alone is precisely what makes a sorcerer's ability to use all the elements so amazing/frightening. If we didn't have that contrast, I don't think sorcerers would be nearly as special.

[Qzzrbl]

To me, the fact that elementalists are limited to their one element alone is precisely what makes a sorcerer's ability to use all the elements so amazing/frightening. If we didn't have that contrast, I don't think sorcerers would be nearly as special.

By that logic, if "elementalists limited to one element = scary sorcerers", then wouldn't "entirely mundane; no magic = wtfomgscary sorcerers"?

[Lizzie]

I think the biggest "problem" with mages, is the ridiculous amount of energy wasted in discussing them on the GDB, in AIM, in chat, etc. etc.

I, of course, am a willing participant in the ridiculousness.

[musashi]

To me, the fact that elementalists are limited to their one element alone is precisely what makes a sorcerer's ability to use all the elements so amazing/frightening. If we didn't have that contrast, I don't think sorcerers would be nearly as special.

By that logic, if "elementalists limited to one element = scary sorcerers", then wouldn't "entirely mundane; no magic = wtfomgscary sorcerers"?

It could, I admit ... but couldn't it also make people start viewing sorcerers as "just another magicker" ... since they would now be the only kind ... instead of viewing them as "OMFG Run!!! RUN!!!!"?

[Doppelganger]

Protesting against piss in the pot of honey does not necessarily make one a honey-hater. No.

[Qzzrbl]

Yeah, I'm not against magickers in general.

I'm just against that it's so easy for them to skill up.

Seriously, it seems like that's all they do when they're not letting me shun and make jokes about them in the Gaj.

[Good Gortok]

For completely selfish reasons, I would happily agree to see elementalists abolished from the game. Or at least gemmed. They just seem to serve little purpose compared to what they seem to detract from the game, usually taking a good half-dozen players and turning them into complete non-factors for the game world. That's not strictly true, of course, but for the vast majority of players they may as well not exist. The same old gemmer-hate roleplay in the Gaj has become so worn and trite that it's almost jarring to me, and they are so separated from the rest of the populace that neither side make much of an attempt to roleplay together at all. Still they remain as powerhouses who all but eliminate the real need for mundane characters in many RPTs and larger conflicts. I realize that a number of people enjoy playing gemmed mages, but from my admittedly biased point of view, everything about them is a negative influence on the game.

I'm just against that it's so easy for them to skill up.

Seriously, it seems like that's all they do when they're not letting me shun and make jokes about them in the Gaj.

Also this. It's unbelievably easy for someone to "train up" a magicker if they are willing to skirt the borders of twinking in order to do so, and let's face it, many are, magickers or not. The reason that gemmers seem to spend so much time casting away in their temples is likely a mix of the fact that they have little else to do, and that the rapid tangible gains is such a temptation. Who wouldn't want to make a gemmer, play for a few weeks and be able to single-handedly defeat just about any mundane character in the game? Not everybody, but some, and unfortunately this is particularly attractive to the wrong type of players.

So while I personally would have nothing against it if, for example, they removed gemmers and increased the restrictions on non-gemmed mages, I voted no. I don't think they should be removed because it would disappoint a lot of players and because magickers are such an integral part of the culture and documentation that it would leave gaps.

[LittleLostThief]

Nobody likes half-elves either... please remove the option so we can all get along.

But seriously... being a gemmed mage is an avenue that many people take upon creating their first elementalist.  Disproportionately, they're also one of the most difficult roles to create in a way that is enjoyable.  You have to have a really good, solid concept to enjoy your gemmer.  It's got to go beyond "I want to play an elementalist, and I want it to be easy like candy-land".  If that's as much thought as you put into it, you're going to be miserable.  Not ONLY that, but you need other three dimensional characters to interact with in the same position, or you're going to be doing a lot of flying solo.  It's very difficult for everything to come together just right.

I doubt any role sees more storage/suicide than gemmers.

[Thunkkin]

So, is playing a gemmer in 'Nak more isolated than, say, playing an elf?  How lonely is the life of a gemmer?  I always have (and will, until they're changed) played by the docs and avoided gemmer friendships as a mundane ... but I always feel vaguely sad that there's probably a really cool character concept there that I'll never get to know. 

Yet, in complete contradiction to this, I get a smug feeling every time I snub an elf and I never feel bad that I may be missing out on a fascinating elf personality.  Damn neckers, I wish they'd just keep away from me.  Hmm.

Doesn't really make sense, but there it is.

Oh, and I don't want gemmers removed.  Or elves. 

[Marauder Moe]

Well, the poll results are pretty conclusive at least.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Maybe part of the reason gemmed mages spend so much time 'skilling up' is because it's an extremely isolating and otherwise boring role in a lot of regards (or at least, that's how I found it) and there isn't much else for you to do with your time.

That said, while it would be extremely unlikely for me to play another gemmed mage willingly for the rest of my stay during 1.Arm, I think that denying others the opportunities to play gemmers and other elementalists would be a bit of a draconian effort to correct a 'problem' that not everyone agrees on in the first place.  Or the twenty-thousand magicker argument threads wouldn't go on for twenty pages a piece 

[jhunter]

No. A couple of the elementalists are the only magickers that I enjoy playing. I have to say I'm not a big fan of gemmed though. I very much prefer rogue elementalists to gemmed.

[X-D]

I voted hell no.

But, I would dearly love if the 3 new pseudo-elements went away and we went back to the basic 4 and they got the spells they lost to the fake elements back.

Alright, just get rid of elkros and drov, I rather like the void, it has a place.

[musashi]

Elkros and Drov were added after the fact? I KNEW it looked tacked on!

[mansa]

Elkros and Drov were added after the fact? I KNEW it looked tacked on!

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