IDEA: Independent Clan Boards on the GDB?

[NoteworthyFellow]

Currently, there remains a bit of an OOC difficulty in setting up independent clans.  One could, of course, set up a Google group or arrange meetings/RPTs on AIM, but it all feels a little roundabout that way, and remains out of the staff's eyes, which always feels rather shady when it affects things IC.

What if there was the ability to sent in a request to have a board, on the GDB, set up for an independent clan?  The clan would still email the unclanned staff, and the board could be moderated by the staff just as any other clan board would.  If you have enough people together, just send in a request, the board can be made and moderated, and if the clan disappears, the board can be deleted.  Perhaps the right to invite people to the board and remove them from it could be granted to the clan's leaders, as well, to take the added strain off of the unclanned staff.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Agent_137]

this would be fantastic! On our old board, I know something like this could easily be done since I admin a phpbb board for my old CS clan. I don't how easy it is on this board software, but I'm sure it's relatively similar.

And yea, I'd feel infinitely more comfortable OOCing someone who just joined my indie clan to join my indie GDB board by giving me their GDB name instead of asking for email or aim names. that's so intrusive and uhg.

Considering one clan I was in that didn't have an IG OOC clan board, I can't imagine ALSO not having a GDB group. without one it would be incredibly difficult to organize even basic stuff like playtimes.

[Desertman]

I love this idea.

Edited to Add:

My above response was short because I was busy.

I just wanted to fully express how GREAT I think this idea is and add in my own two sids.

I am a major advocate for indy clans, and I think for 2.Arm especially, indy clan boards are going to be a priority for groups. Since the only real clans are going to be indy clans anyways, at least in the beginning.

We might as well go ahead and implement indy clan boards in 1.Arm, since I personally have seen a major need for them.

As it stands if you are running an indy clan and you need to let all of your subordinates know an event is going to occur on such and such date at such and such time, the only way to let them know is to give them an OOC notification. Which is jarring, as all OOC communication typically is.

If its a last minute arrangment and your event is going to be for the next RL day, then whoever didnt happen to be online when you found out IC you would be having this event, simply has to miss out.

As a player of an indepent group, I would love it if I could log into an indy board and see...

"Hey everyone, we have an event scheduled for tonight at 7pm central time, sorry for the short notice, I just got this arranged IC myself. Hope to see everyone there."

Then, even if I wasnt logged in at the same time as my clan leader, I would know to be logged in at 7pm tonight for the event.

Indy clan boards are the future.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Another thing about indie clan boards: if the clan's founder dies, it'll be easier for the clan to continue, as long as it's IC for it to do so.  The board remains there, so everyone's still a part of it, and before you know it, the old problem of "a key member died so our clan kinda drifted apart" now has a very viable solution.

[Marauder Moe]

I dunno...

A clan forum also kinda represents the virtual support base large clans have and established rumor/information networks.  A support base a PC-created indy clan won't (initially) have.

[Desertman]

I dunno...

A clan forum also kinda represents the virtual support base large clans have and established rumor/information networks.  A support base a PC-created indy clan won't (initially) have.

That depends on clan structure I suppose.

If you have three members in your clan, its not really a "clan" first of all. Thats just a group of friends. Maybe there should be some requirements that you must fulfill before you are granted "Clan Board Access." To better represent the concept of clan closeness/dependability, and also to keep the IMM's from getting a ton of indy clan board requests, for clans that probably wont survive a RL week.

I would suggest off the top of my head some guidelines similar to...

1. You must have at least five full members, including yourself/clan leader who have been in your ranks for at least one game month.

2. You must have clan documentation which details your clan's agenda, beliefs, schedule, ect...

3. You must have a clan structure that ensures someone will be delegated to assume power should the current clan leader meet their demise.

Things like that...

[Marauder Moe]

When clans become that large they do actually get a forum.  The Atrium did.

[Desertman]

When clans become that large they do actually get a forum.  The Atrium did.

I have never seen that mentioned anywhere.

I guess I always could have simply submitted a request for a clan board for my indy clan, but I never even knew it was possible.

Maybe we can just get a statement from an Immortal, even if its just here on the GDB, detailing what criteria your clan has to meet in order to be considered for a clan board?

I would find that extremely helpful.

[staggerlee]

I'd think you can garnish some clues from this:

In replying to someone's enquiry about re-starting a desert elf tribe, I realized that some of what I was saying was worth repeating on this board, since a number of his questions were ones that come up more than once. I've expanded on some of my answers from the email.

> Specifically, what yardstick does the staff use to determine whether a tribe
> is worthy of support or not?  Is it number of players actively creating
> characters in the tribe?  Existence of old or experienced members of the
> tribe (longevity)?  How the tribe fits in with the storyline?

Things that we look at it, in no particular order:

- how much effort went into the docs. Are they clear, consistent and complete? Are they just another clan's docs redone, or are they something new and interesting? Is the concept one of a realistic and workable culture? Are there notes on social structure, language, history, etc?
        - is the concept balanced? Are there both advantages and disadvantages to playing in the tribe? Is it a real concept or a thinly disguised "we like to run around and pkill anyone who isn't in our tribe while talking in a funny accent"?
        - do the members roleplay according to the docs, or only when it suits them?
        - is the clan likely to continue on, or will it be abandoned when a key figure dies? Are there active, long-lived players in it that will drive recruiting other players? It's more than a little discouraging to put coding and building effort into a tribe only to have the players die off the next day.
        - does it add anything to the game? Does it fill a gap or does it end up taking away from the game by splitting off a section of the playerbase into isolated circumstances?
        - is the clan willing to work with the staff? Were the docs sent to us for feedback - and was that feedback listened to or ignored? Do PC leaders keep us informed of important developments? When there are problems or questions, are they reacted to defensively and combatively, or are the members of the tribe capable of cooperating with staff in these circumstances?
        - are there OOC concerns? Do we see clan members behaving in a way that makes it clear there's a lot of instant messaging going on? When one member is asked a question, does everyone suddenly go idle? We don't mind OOC coordination of playing times and recruiting, but when people are playing and OOC messaging at the same time, it gives them an unfair advantage over other players that I'm not real fond of promoting.

In short, we apply the same sort of criteria that we would if a staff member were proposing a new tribe, as well as the standards to which we'd hold a staff-run clan.

> what steps would I have to take to ensure that the tribe doesn't
> just disappear into the ether like it almost has at this point?

Right now, we're working on a project for the desert elves that should get implemented in one or two weeks, so I'm not super keen on muddying the waters, so to speak, by throwing another desert elf tribe in the mix. Our plan is to provide several pre-coded tribes for desert elf players to opt for, which will then clan and dress them appropriately, and give them a clan-specific starting point. I'd rather see new desert elves going into one of those.

Coatlicue is handling this effort, and it should be ready to go within the next week or two. People will be able to pick between two tribes: one oriented towards warriors (the Soh Lanah Kah, which will move from a position of being entirely player run to a clan which is staff supported), the other towards mystics (the Akei Ta Var). A third tribe (Two Moons) will be added eventually as well, intended for merchanty types. If you're interested in helping flesh out documentation or contributing to this effort, you might drop Coatlicue an email. (If you're volunteering to write NPCs, I will point out that Tuluk still needs more.)

People will, though, still be able to opt for their own tribe, because I don't want to take that choice away.  Our intent is to provide a well-fleshed out structure of good desert elf roleplay.

-Sanvean

[Desertman]

Though that seems to apply more to a tribe than a clan/business organization (I always see the term Clan to reflect more a Organization than a Tribe) that is extremely helpful.

Thanks Stag.

I will also add that Sanvean seemed to be referring to the tribe/clan being worthy of IMM support.

I personally wouldnt really like IMM support for my indy clan, thats what makes it an indy clan.

I just want a clan board to make OOC coordination of times and events less jarring in the IC sense of using tons of OOC messages to arrange things.

If the IMM's grant me the clan board to post my notifications on and for my clan members to post their notifications on, I wouldnt really mind if they simply forgot we existed at all after that.

What I mean is, of course everyone wants "Imm Support" for cool things in your clan, like coded areas ect...But in my mind an Indy clan should be set up to be completely Indy, as in, we dont need to bother IMM's in order to continue our day to day routines IC.

[Fathi]

Having played in a very major imm-supported clan that didn't have a readable OOC messageboard in the game, I definitely support this idea. It was such a pain to pass information along to new clan members who hadn't been added to the forum yet and I had no board in our clan area to reference when discussing things or announcing RPTs and the like.

If nothing else, I'd like to see independent clans have more readily-available access to NPCs that can spout off rumour messages or post-able rumour boards ingame.

[mansa]

Specific forums within the GDB require Imm Support. 

I vote no.

The game should be the game inside the game.  If you want to arrange something, use the IC Boards.  That's why they are there.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Specific forums within the GDB require Imm Support. 

I vote no.

The game should be the game inside the game.  If you want to arrange something, use the IC Boards.  That's why they are there.

There isn't always an appropriate one to use.

[Desertman]

Specific forums within the GDB require Imm Support. 

I vote no.

The game should be the game inside the game.  If you want to arrange something, use the IC Boards.  That's why they are there.

There isn't always an appropriate one to use.

Also, everything that your group does shouldnt always be subject to you trusting the rest of the playerbase with the knowledge.

If you have a shady clan who does shady things, do you really want to post your RPT for a shady mission on the IG boards?

Of course not.

[LoD]

If you have a shady clan who does shady things, do you really want to post your RPT for a shady mission on the IG boards?

I wouldn't ever want any clan to plan, discuss, or orchestrate "shady things" anywhere but inside the game, whether it be on IG boards or communicating IG with the other players.  Not only does it rob the rest of the game world of the chance to overhear conversations, impact plots, or integrate themselves into the story, but it encourages the justification of swapping IC information OOCly.

I've only ever known such things as a detriment to the game rather than a boon.

If the purpose of the Indy Clan Board was solely as a means of coordinating play times and announcing RPT's, then I definitely think it could be helpful and avoid some of the cumbersome and, perhaps, uncomfortable swapping of emails and IM handles as a means of achieving the same goals.

-LoD

[NoteworthyFellow]

If the purpose of the Indy Clan Board was solely as a means of coordinating play times and announcing RPT's, then I definitely think it could be helpful and avoid some of the cumbersome and, perhaps, uncomfortable swapping of emails and IM handles as a means of achieving the same goals.

This, as far as I'm aware, is the purpose of the existing clan boards, and so it's exactly what I was suggesting for indie clan boards.

[Desertman]

If you have a shady clan who does shady things, do you really want to post your RPT for a shady mission on the IG boards?

I wouldn't ever want any clan to plan, discuss, or orchestrate "shady things" anywhere but inside the game, whether it be on IG boards or communicating IG with the other players.  Not only does it rob the rest of the game world of the chance to overhear conversations, impact plots, or integrate themselves into the story, but it encourages the justification of swapping IC information OOCly.

I've only ever known such things as a detriment to the game rather than a boon.

If the purpose of the Indy Clan Board was solely as a means of coordinating play times and announcing RPT's, then I definitely think it could be helpful and avoid some of the cumbersome and, perhaps, uncomfortable swapping of emails and IM handles as a means of achieving the same goals.

-LoD

Of course there wouldnt be lengthy conversations about how such RPT's were going to take place, as with any other clan board. I thought that was probably a given so didnt address it.

They would be used for simple OOC coordination for playability purposes.

[touringCompl3t3]

Original poster's idea is awesome

[Agent_137]

Specific forums within the GDB require Imm Support. 

I vote no.

The game should be the game inside the game.  If you want to arrange something, use the IC Boards.  That's why they are there.

mansa,

they're really fucking easy to setup. Here's how:

go to admin control panel
create a new category (indy clans) and assign all immortals as moderator for all sub forums.

Now, when the imms get a request from an indy clan, they do this:

go to admin control panel
create a new sub forum for it (Mansafans of Allanak) as private.
create a new private member group named after the clan.
edit it and add a specific moderator for that group who'll be able to add and remove members. They could add two, one for the leader and one for the 2nd in command.
at the same time add the sub forum for the clan to this group so only they can read/write it.
done!

This should take no longer than five minutes. With some simple min requirements that are not as difficult to attain as what Sanvean described earlier, the benefit of this could -easily- be made to outweigh the time spent by imms.

If anything, it'd make it a lot easier for the Indy Imms to see what's going on with all the indy clans out there that probably aren't sending in regular reports because they're busy trying to stay alive.

And if you're worried about clutter, they can just make a policy that if there hasn't been a post on a indy clan sub forum in 1 or 2 RL months, it gets deleted.