How to react to magick in various cities

[Dalmeth]

I've said it dozen times before, and I'll say it again.  Magick isn't scary.  It was my idea that the dilemma of being a magicker was  that you were essentially a normal person with something scary attached.  They aren't, though.  All you have to do is keep on the magicker's good side, and they'll never target you with a detrimental spell.  That degree of control, that lack of the unknown, is a serious flaw in seeing magickers as scary.

[ale six]

Yeah magickers just need a little more <3 guys, they're not bad, just misunderstood. -_-

[Salt Merchant]

I felt like going on a rant about the inanity of the player base complaining about a situation that it basically created for itself with its tendency to polarize roleplaying issues to extremes.

Instead, I'll just suggest that things aren't going to change in 1.Arm now.

If they were, I'd suggest that some dark tower be built out in the wastes, and all magicker characters start there, and that it be written into their documents that they resent and hate the world that rejected them and want to bring grief to those who drove them out. Then everyone would know what to do.

But it won't be built and nothing is going to change until 2.Arm. So just drop it.

[Rhyden]

There's two sides to mundanes attacking magickers close to cities.

First off, why is this mage practicing magick so near to the city? As has been said, it is illegal or frowned upon to cast around most city-states. Mages are tolerated around Allanak only when they bear the gem. Said mage is either stupid or plainly looking for trouble if they're casting so close to either city state or outpost. If they are gemmed and casting so close to the city, there is probably good reason.

On the other hand, if there was any mundane stupid/fearless/insane enough to actually attack any mage casting any magick so close to a city state, I think the consequences would formulate a plausible solution by itself. If said mage is weak and unable to defend themselves from said mundane, well that's shit luck. If they are a weak mage and casting so close to a city state, they're about as careless as any mundane who would attack them.

If said mage is powerful enough to overcome the careless mundane, that's just shit luck for the mundane. Maybe they shouldn't be attacking magickers so close to city states.

It's a gamble for both parties, which is why I usually haul ass from any magickers I see. 

[Mood]

It's hard to play a scary 'gicker if people won't let their characters be scared.

It's also hard when the Good Guys™ hunt your ass down and kill you for being mean, because they're more powerful than you. No, I'm not just talking about the Templarate.

[LoD]

You still aren't going to go out there by yourself with a sharp stick or a club and try to take care of the tiger yourself. Not unless you are severely unstable or have a death wish.

I wasn't making the point as a justification for mundanes attacking magickers out in the desert, but as an explanation as to why many mundanes will not exhibit the level of fear and terror you and others want to see exhibited by those players.  The mundane may not attack that magicker, but they are going to have to deal with them eventually -- because the magickers are representing an exception to the rule in being common and obvious rather than rare and mysterious.

This is not the fault of any one player, but a fault of the entire system.  And until that system is changed, the problem will persist.  Just don't expect the mundane population to adhere to their part of the bargain in playing fear and terror when the magicker population isn't upholding their part of the bargain in being rare and mysterious.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

-LoD

[Malken]

It was a simple question that requires a simple answer.

When in doubt, double R's. (Run & Report)

[X-D]

It's also hard when the Good Guys™ hunt your ass down and kill you for being mean, because they're more powerful than you. No, I'm not just talking about the Templarate.

QFT

Also, of late at least in one city I've been seeing mostly what I consider to be the right attitude to mages. Cept the gemmed. Most seem to treat them exactly the same. And I'm not saying that is all bad. But you should probly have your PC remember that the gem also means that the mage wearing it might be a templars personal lapdog of lightning.

[jhunter]

I still don't see the relationship between rarity and fear of something. Something dangerous=something dangerous, no matter how often or rarely you see it or come into contact with it. I would venture to argue that if you are seeing more of something dangerous it is more realistic to be -more- afraid and more careful, not less.
I think that people are using "rarity" as an excuse not to rp accordingly, IMO. No insult intended but I honestly do believe so. I play each and every pc with fear of magick no matter how much they may come into contact with it. I think it's poor rp to do otherwise.

[LoD]

I still don't see the relationship between rarity and fear of something. Something dangerous=something dangerous, no matter how often or rarely you see it or come into contact with it. I would venture to argue that if you are seeing more of something dangerous it is more realistic to be -more- afraid and more careful, not less. I think that people are using "rarity" as an excuse not to rp accordingly, IMO. No insult intended but I honestly do believe so. I play each and every pc with fear of magick no matter how much they may come into contact with it. I think it's poor rp to do otherwise.

The problem is that you want people to maintain not only the same level of fear, but the same type of response when they encounter magickers despite how those magickers choose to interact with the mundanes.  You have several factors simultaneously breaking down the barriers that are erected by the documentation rather than reinforcing them.

• The documentation says magickers are rare, but magickers visiting the same taverns, using magicks easily within sight of the city-state, and approaching characters on well traveled roads makes them appear common.
• The documentation says they are mysterious, but when they are integrated into clans as a tool and choose to magickally aid mundanes due to a friendship, they begin to remove the layers of mystery enshrouding their kind.

The fear players choose to portray is built not only on a relationship with their rarity, but upon the byproducts of magickers being common and accessible.  When something is common, that requires the people to know how to handle encounters with them, how to react to their presence, and how to deal with their presence.  It's like when you go to parks and they instruct you on what to do when you see a bear, not if you see a bear.  The people visiting the park might exhibit the type of fear you expect, because they've likely never encountered a bear up close and personal.  The park rangers probably encounter them on a semi-daily basis, and the blind fear they might have once demonstrated when placed into a dangerous situation has transformed into respect for what a bear can do because of the training they've developed by being inundated by them.

When the game inundates the playerbase with magick and magickers, it is forcing the players and those player's characters to transform blind fear into that same respect for power by training them to deal with magickers not if they encounter one, but when they encounter them.

Obviously this does not translate to every single character or every single part of the game world, but it has become far more commonplace that it was in past years and those changes cannot be ignored.  You simply cannot expect players to continue to play according to the documentation when the magickers are not.  It's an unfair expectation and a flawed perspective to accuse them of playing poorly or cheating.

I am neither trying to lay blame at the feet of the magickers nor rationalize unrealistic behavior on the part of mundanes.  I am trying to demonstrate that there are factors at work in the current game world which create situations on a widespread scale that contradict the documentation, and to expect players to hold true to them when the conditions have so greatly changed is neither fair to yourself or to those players.

-LoD

[RogueGunslinger]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

[Qzzrbl]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

The problem is, with most breeds, elves, and 'gickers I've encountered at least, this "niceness" about them is genuine. I have never been swindled by an elf, hell, I don't think I've even been pickpocketed by an elf before. Also, I've never seen any of them not act surprised and deeply hurt when I'm mean to them.

[Rhyden]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

The problem is, with most breeds, elves, and 'gickers I've encountered at least, this "niceness" about them is genuine. I have never been swindled by an elf, hell, I don't think I've even been pickpocketed by an elf before. Also, I've never seen any of them not act surprised and deeply hurt when I'm mean to them.

That's because while they're being nice to you, their elf friends' hands are in your pockets. And you never notice with the best of elves.

[roughneck]

It's like when you go to parks and they instruct you on what to do when you see a bear, not if you see a bear.  The people visiting the park might exhibit the type of fear you expect, because they've likely never encountered a bear up close and personal.  The park rangers probably encounter them on a semi-daily basis, and the blind fear they might have once demonstrated when placed into a dangerous situation has transformed into respect for what a bear can do because of the training they've developed by being inundated by them.


-LoD

LoD constructs a logical and objective argument very well on this topic.  In Canada I lived around bears once at work we spotted a black bear on the side of the road, I got out and chased it for kicks and the Nigerian that worked with us shit his pants.

On a different note; if I'm in the desert and hunt giant insects just for food or battle monster gith armies for a living I just might have the constitution of spirit and strength of will to try and do something about that that disgusting magicker I find outside the gates because maybe he's going to corrupt my food supply, or maybe I just like my space out in the desert and this dick should just get back in the city with the rest of his kind, or maybe because it's good for my reputation, or maybe just because I hate magickers.

People are just as likely to kill something they are truly afriad of than run away from it, if they have the ability they may very well risk it.  A sword or a spear is sufficient for a magicker because he is a human being and thus trying to kill them is a logical course of action in my mind.  Plenty of other societies in the past and even primitive ones presently reacted the same way.

Also, some people are reckless and some aren't.  Chances are someone who's chosen to spend his life outside the city is a bit of a risk-taker anyways.

[FantasyWriter]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

I dissagree.  According to the docs elves are thieves (Its not a bad thing to call an elf a thief, but it is DANGEROUS to call one a bad thief)
Breeds search hard for acceptance in what ever group they find themselves in.

And I are with Lod on this: The reason people aren't afraid of majickers is bacause they are so common now. That makes the people jaded of them. Doesn make majickers less dangerous, but it does make people fear them less.
It is a human flaw (rather it is a strength or weakness varies) to fear the varies. when something becomes common place it looses is mystery, and people begin to think-truth or not-that they understand it.

Like flying (in a plane) IT IS DANGEROUS Some people are scared shittless at even the idea of getting on a plane, while others do it literally every day of their life.  it is still dangerous, but people become jaded to the idea of the danger.

I played a ranger once who was never inside the walls of Nak or Tuluk for more than a game hour at a time, he nearly went crazy just being 'trapped' in the walls that long.  I think that PC knew more majickers than mundanes personally.  He even moved lots of stuff for them and would trade for them in the cities they weren't allowed in.  Did he fear majick? Yes.  Did he shit in his pants when he met a new obvious 'jicker? No.


If you are upset because your majicker isn't feared. It is becaise you and the other macjickers aren't doing things that would make you feared amoung the masses.  It is my honest opinion that bacause of this change in the societies of Zalanthus, that the docs should be changed to compensate for it, unless of course you non-mundanes want to get out there and do somthing about it.

[jhunter]

Just how "rare" should something be to be considered rare? Rarity is a matter of perspective and opinion.
It appears to me that what some of you consider "rare" I consider -extremely- rare. What some might consider common, I would consider fairly rare.
I still believe that using one's personal opinion of what "rare" should be as an excuse not to rp accordingly to be a copout.
I think that the real issue at hand is that some people's personal preference/perception of how exactly "rare" they should be isn't how things -are- so they -choose- (it really is 100% a choice) to use it as an excuse (not to roleplay accordingly) to make a point that the game is somehow "broken" or that magickers aren't playing up to the documentation.
The fact of the matter is that some people simply will not think that magickers are rare unless they can play several pcs without ever seeing one or evidence of one. Some people believe it very likely, (especially considering that many of them live in one of the major cities) that nearly -every- pc of theirs will see magick or evidence of it here and there throughout their lives.
Some people sit somewhere in the middle of those.
I don't think there is or ever really has been a major problem with it. I think the biggest problem is that noone can agree on exactly -how- rare magick is or should be because everyone has different personal preferences and everyone feels that their particular preference is the "right way".

[FantasyWriter]

unless of course you non-mundanes want to get out there and do somthing about it.

P.S. - Please do, btw. My collection of looted gems has not been growing for sometime now.

[Qzzrbl]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

I dissagree.  According to the docs elves are thieves (Its not a bad thing to call an elf a thief, but it is DANGEROUS to call one a bad thief)

Don't know about you, but I don't think it's a great idea to trust a thief.... They might steal from you.

[FantasyWriter]

I think every magicker, elf or breed should be treated with mistrust. Doubly so when they act nice to you.

I dissagree.  According to the docs elves are thieves (Its not a bad thing to call an elf a thief, but it is DANGEROUS to call one a bad thief)

Don't know about you, but I don't think it's a great idea to trust a thief.... They might steal from you.

Oop.... I meant that I don't agree that breeds and juckers should be put in the same catagory as Leves when it come to how to interact with on a personal level.  I VERY much agree that elves can't be trusted.. and if they can, they aren't playing very good elves, then are they?

[Qzzrbl]

Half-elves are half elf.... Half of those dirty, thieving, swindling, money-grubbing bastard genes are flowing through their veins.   


Plus 'gickers steal babies and eat them. And have invisible tentacles that steal your brainz when you let your guard down. And they give you bad luck. And one crossing your path will curse your immediate family with mutant children.

[Desertman]

When people start RP'ing correctly when magickers walk into taverns and sit at the bar, I will start RP'ing correctly when I get half a chance to kill them.

I generally kill any mage I get half a chance to kill. I make it point to infuse every mundane pc I play with a natural hate for magick, so I always have an IC reason to kill magickers any chance I get...Because OOC'ly, I hate them.

Twinkish? Yeah...But I have had years of watching people play happy buddy buddy time with mages at the local taverns when they should be running in revulsion, and noone gets pissed about that.

You cant have it both ways...

You cant say..."I'm not mad about people who rp not being afraid so they can be friends with magickers"

And then say..."I am mad about people who rp not being afraid of magickers so they can be thier enemies."

IF its ok to rp not being afraid of magickers, I'm going to use that feature of the game that completely contradicts the docs in order to kill as many mages as I can for the sole purpose of satiating my desire to destroy them OOC'ly.

[brytta.leofa]

Random encounters can add to the game.

[Desertman]

Random encounters can add to the game.

Ummm. I agree.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Once upon a time, I was a newbie who dilligently read the docs and rolled up a character. I figured she wouldn't -hate- magickers, but definitely wouldn't ever knowingly befriend one either. She'd be vaguely ambivilent, on the side of cautious suspicion, and I'd RP it from there and see where it took me.

Well. She ends up -so- exposed to magickers on -such- a regular basis, that eventually (eventually meaning, over the course of several RL months), she just got used to them. Some of them made it easy for her to get used to. Others didn't. Some were genuinely pleasant and useful, others weren't. But the fact that they were magickers stopped bothering her, and she saw them more on an individual case-by-case thing than as a whole.

The moral of the story, is that if you are regularly exposed to that which you fear, you will either go insane, or you will simply learn to live with whatever it is you used to fear, and stop fearing it. If people want magickers to BE fearsome, it isn't enough that they do mean terrible scary things. They have to do it covertly, rarely..their existence has to be a mystery to everyone else. Otherwise, they really do become "oh yeah, one of those. Whatever, let's go skeet-shooting."

This part...I edited out the part I wanted to comment on.  I agree that you should be able to play your characters as you will.  However.  If you want to know what I think really kills the magickers being scary...is the gemmed.  Is the 'tamed' magickers.  I think ALL magickers should be illegal...or at least treated as they are in Luir's and Red Storm.  Which I totally understand why those two places do it the way they do...they are giant cities. 

The gemmed.  Ruin the magickers.  Every other gemmer, it seems, play the 'I didn't ask for this...it just happened to me...I didn't want to be a 'gicker anymore than you do.  Maybe you should be nicer to me.  It might happen to you!  Let's have a drink and talk about life and the unfairness of it." 

Okay maybe not every other...but a lot.  What hurts more than anything is that they are legal.  They are in your face constantly.  You see them every single day.  I understand how people in Allanak at least wouldn't be afraid.  At least while in the city.  But they might be out in the wastes where there aren't half-giants and templars everywhere.

I say get rid the 'tame' 'gickers and make them outlaws.  Then we might see people more afraid of 'gickers, because...if your a 'gicker and they see your face...they must die.

[Desertman]

I think magickers should be hated and feared like the plague by the common populace. The way the docs say they should.

I also believe any commoners who are caught being buddy buddy with them should be hated and feared like the plague as well, because there is obviously something wrong with them.

Except the ladder should be killed as quickly as possible, before they likewise begin to infect the rest of us with whatever curse or disease the magicker has put on them to melt thier minds and make them so "understanding".

Edited to Add:

Yes the above means that I will kill your PC for no better reason than I caught you associating with a gicker. I now have an IC reason to kill you any time I get half a chance.

I am one of those people who OOC'ly dislikes something people do IG, especially if it goes against documentation, so I find IC reasons to kill your PC. I wont lie, I do it. So get ready gicker lover, I'm going to rape your corspe. I wonder if I need to get consent for that? You know, because I'm sure ooc buddies would be like..."Man, you should have seen what he did to your PC after you were dead."...then technically I will have exposed you to rape rp in a round about way...hrrrm...thats a delimma.