Sapping animals

[Salt Merchant]

Please note that this is not a question as to whether it is possible to do this, since that can be found out IC.

This is just a general question as to whether it would be considered "bad form". After all, some of the creatures have a pretty thick skull. Some have chitinous protection. Some may not even have heads or it wouldn't matter if they were struck on the head.

Does anyone want to offer an opinion?

[musashi]

I'd say it should be fair game on a humanoid type creature ... as for an animal animal ... heh ... I dunno man ... I bet a plains-ox would just get really pissed off. But hey, give it a try

EDIT: I know in slaughter houses they knock the cows out with a sledgehammer so ... if you're gonna try, might wanna bring something big.

[Grey Area]

There's something hilarious about skulking about bopping tregils on the head. Kinda like clubbing baby seals.

[AmandaGreathouse]

There's something hilarious about skulking about bopping tregils on the head. Kinda like clubbing baby seals.

That's exactly what I compared it to when I walked in from the kitchen and saw my husband logged in and doing that. 

[jstorrie]

I think it's absolutely fine to sap any creature that has some sort of discernable anatomy. Go nuts.

[manonfire]

I sap everything.

[Fathi]

Actually, I see sapping as a totally viable hunting strategy, if not a preferred one when dealing with small prey. For the same reasons that folks in the Arctic club seals instead of shooting them:

When trying to preserve as much pelt as you can from a smallish animal or a particularly tender one like a goudra or tregil, it makes sense to me that somebody hunting said animal would try to aim for the head as opposed to damaging the hide.

[Mood]

I demand arctic seals to club for Arm2.

[musashi]

I'm only scratching my head because I thought the sneaky city types who might have the sap skill couldn't sneak in the desert.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm only scratching my head because I thought the sneaky city types who might have the sap skill couldn't sneak in the desert.

You're suppose to play a character, not a guild.

[Spoon]

Hmm... I don't see a huge problem with it, but the point musashi brings up is more about roles than guilds.

I'm sure if you weren't meant to sap animals it wouldn't work, but I'm also fairly certain the skill was intended for sapping humanoids, hence city-based guilds get it. Guilds are supposed to shape you character to an extent.

[Tisiphone]

Hmm... I don't see a huge problem with it, but the point musashi brings up is more about roles than guilds.

I'm sure if you weren't meant to sap animals it wouldn't work, but I'm also fairly certain the skill was intended for sapping humanoids, hence city-based guilds get it. Guilds are supposed to shape you character to an extent.

Yeah, don't give me that. Even if true, you can make a ranger/thug.

Go crazy with sapping.

[musashi]

EDIT: I basically erased everything I typed the first go round because, after reading it ... I realized it sounded very condescending and aggressive. Sorry to whoever read it. 

Anyway, it's only my personal opinion, but I don't see "sap" as being a skill one should use on animals as a hunting technique, unless you maybe happen to be clubbing a "baby" animal, ala the baby seals reference.

But in all fairness, I don't think warriors should be using bash or whatever other combat techniques they have on animals either. Wanting to play billy goat with a carru seems a bit surreal to me.

I suppose I'm a bit of a traditionalist at heart, but I feel like there is a lot of truth in the arguement people always bring up when we have combat related threads: Hunting animals is a completely different thing from fighting people, even though to the combat code, it isn't.

To paint the picture ... when my character goes out to hunt, he usually thinks to himself something like: I think I'll hunt some gurth today, or goudra ... or ... I was hunting skeet the past few days ... I don't want to spook the game or overhunt them so, perhaps today I'll head east and see about downing a duskhorn.

Then he goes out, and proceeds to look for that aforementioned selected game. He doesn't wander room to room killing any animal mob he finds as if it were a video game with points to rack up. He often gets IC'ly irate when he finds things like gortok or duskhorn heads littered throughout the world because he thinks it's a waste of an already scarce resource, esp when a properly trained person can use those heads to break them down into useable components.

When he finds said game ... I usually RP the killing of it in a few different ways depending. Maybe he'll use archery if the animal is a vestric or a tregil, because it's easier to just shoot them than to run them down (they're too fast and not worth that much effort!) ... maybe he'll shoot them because it's a duskhorn or carru and they're dangerous up close ... if it's a skeet or gurth or goudra (something that doesn't typically run away code-wise) I might RP him running the animal down with his mount (and maybe throw in a 'charge' to kick combat off) and skewing it with his spear. Or if he doesn't have arrows and the animal is a flighty one ... I'll RP leaving the mount behind to sneak up on them (tossing in some hide and sneak to boot).

I just feel like going out there and walking around, killing anything you come across to skin it and try to sell its hide back in town isn't hunting, it's mob bashing for coins and skill gain, and I don't see many people even trying to throw more than an emote or two out there the entire time they're doing it. It's just kind of a "run out at dawn and kill kill kill ... run back in at dusk and save the RP for the tavern". Well, that's how it looks to me anyway.

When my character hunts, it's a lot of emoting ... camping in the wilds over several nights ... yadda yadda yadda. I might return to the city with at most ... 3 pelts or something like that.

So while I'm against the idea of using sap to "hunt" ... I'm also against the idea of spam-hunting like it's a dungeon crawl in the first place ... but people aren't going to quit doing it so ... hey I guess whatever.

[RogueGunslinger]

Why does 'sap' have to be a skill only used for knocking things out? Why can't it be any normal swing with a club at somethings head?

Because that's all it is. You're just swinging a club at somethings head when it isn't expecting it, increasing the chance of knocking it out.

Sapping an animal 'isnt' silly. Because all you're doing is initiating a surprise attack on something.

That would really be my main concern ... I doubt an adult animal is going to let someone walk up and sap it in the back of the head

This is just the simplicity of the code. Why can you sit a room away and drill creatures with arrows or throwing knives without them reacting? It's unrealistic. But that's how it works. We can't make creatures mimic reality through the code with efficiency. That's just the nature of the game. Is it twinking to know this and still shoot arrows at something?

[Maso]

Why can you sit a room away and drill creatures with arrows or throwing knives without them reacting? It's unrealistic. But that's how it works. We can't make creatures mimic reality through the code with efficiency. That's just the nature of the game. Is it twinking to know this and still shoot arrows at something?

Why can you land 25 arrows into a lizard and it still end up at excellent health. 

[FuSoYa]

I have to agree, I play sap as just trying to get a damn good blow on someone's head with the chance and hope of knocking them out. 

Brandon

[musashi]

I have to agree, I play sap as just trying to get a damn good blow on someone's head with the chance and hope of knocking them out. 

Brandon

Well like I said in my revised post, I see it as a skill to be used against humanoid-folk (and I see bash, and all those other warrior folk type skills to be used in the same light). Playing it as landing a blow on someone's head suits me just fine.

For me, I just wish hunting in general were handled with more RP, less killing spree.

If someone could find a tasteful way to work it into the "feel" of actual hunting, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the jaded side of me just worries what it will degenerate into is this:

l n; n; sap duskhorn; sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;sap;flee north;n;n;rest;*wait*;stand;s;s;sap duskhorn;sap;sap;sap;sap.

Also to play devil's advocate a little bit ... if it was not intended to be a "sneaky" type of sapping, and was just supposed to be a general "aim for their head with a club" ... why do only sneaky guilds receive the skill?

Our characters aren't just the guild they pick, but it seems silly to assume the guild they pick has no bearing on them whatsoever. I mean, near as I can see ... it's not innovative, creative, and groundbreaking to pick the merchant guild and write up a background for an arena pit fighter, it's just kind of silly.

[RogueGunslinger]

Sap is an initial attack, combined with some element of surprise. It's not kick. You can't do it in middle of a fight. Just be creative with your RP when you hunt and quit focusing on the skills you use to do it...


>scribble a large 'X' on the ground.
>em ties a large rock to a long vine using a nearby tree to hoist it high above the ground.
>drop meat below a large rock dangling from a vine, atop a large 'X' on the ground.
You drop a piece of dried erdlu meat.  Shown to the room as:
A piece of dried erdlu meat is here below a large rock dangling from a vine, atop a large 'X' on the ground.
>Think just in case something else happens by while Johnz is taking his sweet time.

you think:
      "Just in case something else happens by while Johnz is taking his sweet time."


>hem grips the other end of the vine and moves behind some shrubbery.
>hide

you attempt to blend into the foliage in the area.

The tall hunter runs in from the west.

>think 'bout fucking time you get here, Johnz, you asshole. I've been sitting in this bush for near three hours.

A Carru arrives from the west.

The tall hunter swipes out at the large brown carru, attempting to lure it to a large 'X' on the ground.
The tall hunter begins attacking a large brown Carru.
The tall hunter says in Sirihish:
                          "Now!!"

>Em lets go of the vine, watching the rock fall through the air.
>sap carru.

You missed!

>think Oh shit!

[FuSoYa]

Unfortunately you are not correct in the fact that only sneaky guilds get the skill.  Also, the way you have presented it with the striing of commands is not viable man.  I appreciate your opinions but I'd be wary of lumping alot of people into what you think some might do.  That being said, just enjoy the game for youself.

As for the question of a guild and it defining a character.  I know for myself I look at the guild and subguild as mainly the skills my character has the potential of excelling in.  Therefore if I wanted to be a shitty pit fighter I might pick the merchant guild.  I wouldn't, but it's a thought.

Brandon

[musashi]

Well, as I've said many times before ... it wouldn't be the first time I'm mistaken on something And rather good to know I was wrong in fact.

Also, I think RGS's little scene there was quite amusing, and probably a very good way in which to roll a "sap" into hunting an animal.

[Rahnevyn]

>Em lets go of the vine, watching the rock fall through the air.
>sap carru.

I wouldn't do something like this in the game, it misrepresents what is codedly going on. Code-wise, when you try to sap something, you are sneaking up on it with a club and trying to whack it over the head, not staying back at a distance and swinging rocks at it.

Again not the "official" staff stance, but I don't see too much problem with sapping animals, if you're codedly able to do it. Attempting to sap giant creatures like mekillots and bahamets and braxats is a little unrealistic unless you are a half-giant... but usually the coded consequences of trying to sap those animals enforces realism pretty nicely.

[X-D]

I would also like to add that bash is just knocking something down. And in hunting animals with primitive weapons, knocking them over is indeed a good method.

No where does it say how you are knocking them down with the skill.

[RogueGunslinger]

I would also like to add that bash is just knocking something down. And in hunting animals with primitive melee weapons, knocking them over is indeed a good method.

No where does it say how you are knocking them down with the skill.

[Ueda]

This skill entails sneaking up on an opponent and rapping them soundly on the head, with the intent of knocking them out.

Notes
     You must always use a 'bludgeoning' weapon to sap.

I would be totally fine with someone doing something like RogueGunslingers post.

[X-D]

Um, I was talking about Bash not Sap. I figured others had done good enough on sap.

Notice my post actually says BASH?

* X-D rolls his eyes.

Which also means you do not cross out and change to melee, I meant primitive weapons...period.

Meh.