Spam Walking

[Synthesis]

I would ask that PLEASE, people:  if you are about to enter your clan compound or some other clan-only area, for the love of Tek, STOP and PAUSE for a few moments before you enter, so anyone who might be shadowing you can 'follow self' and not be spamwalked into your compound against their will.

Furthermore, if you are doing this shit to purposefully trap PCs in your apartment/compound, FYAD.

 

[brytta.leofa]

Mmm, I've never ever thought about that.

[Doppelganger]

Uhm, no.

I'd be ready to give you slack, Synthesis, but it's a second in a row thread stating "I've fucked up, but it's all your fault", so just think ahead and don't sleep on yor victim.

[Ghost]

where is that "Gim says ..." response i came all the way here for that

EDIT: What does FYAD mean?

[Gimfalisette]

Gim says, "FYAD probably means Fuck You And Die. Or that's my guess anyways."

[Kalden]

It'd be nice if entering clan compounds always had some sort of minor delay. And they do, to some extent -- people have to knock.

I'm going to agree with Doppleganger.

[brytta.leofa]

The knock-delay can be essentially zero.

[Ourla]

As much as I adore sneakies, I have to say I think this is silly.  Joe Kadius would walk on through those gates like he normally would, because he has no idea he's being followed.  Joe Kadius would not  pause outside of his estate gates to allow whatever spy has been soaking up his secrets for the past hour to make a clean escape.  If the RP that follows is uncomfortable for the sneaky PC, well...  IC consequences for IC actions.

If you're following someone secretly around the city, you'd damn well better be paying attention to your character and where you're headed. 

In another recent thread, someone brought up the issue of having to answer ICly for the consequences of spamwalking.  Maybe... just... avoid...spamwalking?

[Fathi]

I agree with Ourla and the idea that stopping outside an area your character wouldn't normally stop outside in the event that someone is following you isn't something I'd ever really do, even though I try my best not to spamwalk for other reasons.

However, I think the OP's problem stems more from the fundamental flaws with the follow command than it does with spamwalking.

It's not terribly IC for Joe Kadius to stop outside his gates in the event that there's a sneakie following him, no.

But it's equally not IC that somebody following him would be physically unable to stop following him before he's inside the compound, which, sadly, happens a lot with the current follow code. If the person you're following walks fast enough, you could fire off a 'follow self' and not have it go through until they pause 12 rooms later, go into a clan area, fall off a cliff, etc.

Fortunately I've not seen any examples that looked like people purposefully abusing this facet of the code.

I'd think a staff fix to give 'follow self' no delay or at least a significantly shorter delay would be the only thing that would really solve this problem.

I personally try to keep my spamwalking to a minimum because I want to give people a chance to spot my character and interact with them. However, I can understand why people do it, especially in cities, and especially in a situation like going from your favourite bar to your clan compound because you just wanna log off and get to bed, and I'm definitely guilty of not stopping as often as I probably could.

[brytta.leofa]

You send a message to the staff:
  "Guys, I was shadowing this dude when he spamwalked into his clan compound and logged off. Halp plz?"
A small child has arrived from the west, clutching a worn sandcloth doll.
A small child intently scans the area.
A small child panics and attempts to flee!
A small child runs west.
From the west, a childish voice shouts, in sirihish,
  "STRANGER!"

[Fathi]

You send a message to the staff:
  "Guys, I was shadowing this dude when he spamwalked into his clan compound and logged off. Halp plz?"
A small child has arrived from the west, clutching a worn sandcloth doll.
A small child intently scans the area.
A small child panics and attempts to flee!
A small child runs west.
From the west, a childish voice shouts, in sirihish,
  "STRANGER!"

Code Select Expand

> open pack
> get candy pack
> w (smiling kindly)

[jstorrie]

Code Select Expand

>tell child Do you like puppies? I have puppies in my wagon.

[BlackMagic0]

When I spam walk, I throw in a few emotes.. Saying I am jogging down the path, trying to get somewhere fast.
If that does not give you a warning.. Well don't shadow me?

If I have no reasons to spam walk.. Sleep, higher up contacting me, meeting someone IC, etc... I do not spam walk, I walk a few rooms em, few rooms, etc and so.. Think maybe talk to myself.. such a thing..

Code Select Expand

>tell child Do you like puppies? I have puppies in my wagon.

... Dear god... Micheal Jackson wannabe in Arm! 

[Synthesis]

The issue isn't whether anyone is paying attention or not.

There are -numerous- instances where you could be paying perfect attention and still be dragged somewhere against your will.  What if I'm lagging?  What if I just typed "listen" or some other lag-inducing comand?  What if I started shadowing you when you came out, but for some reason you decided to go back in and log out?  What if your "clan-only" area is only one or two rooms away from some public gathering spot?  What if you're moving faster than I am?

If you're entering a clan compound or other clan-only area (e.g. wagons), stop and drop an emote or something, and give someone the chance to type "follow self."  That's all I'm asking.

Are you fucking seriously saying you can't pause for ten fucking seconds before you enter your gates? Say hi to the NPC guard or something.  Think about how well-constructed the gates are.  Dust yourself off.  Do whatever.

Otherwise, next time I'm going to say "fuck it" and magickally palm all the shit out of your footlockers and sneak out again anyway.  Don't try this "tough beans" shit with me, I've been playing far too long to be "pooh-poohed" by a bunch of fucking newbs.

[Maybe42or54]

How about another nosave trigger?

Nosave compound

This command will stop you if you are performing a stealthy follow from following someone into a compound that you can't get out of.

[Mood]

Don't try this "tough beans" shit with me, I've been playing far too long to be "pooh-poohed" by a bunch of fucking newbs.

Lol, internet elitism.

[Seeker]

This is probably something that could be more successfully addressed by code alterations or in conversation with staff than by making demands of other players and putting the smack-down on us newbs who might not (necessarily) agree that everyone should alter their play to suit your requirements.


Seeker

[Ghost]

Otherwise, next time I'm going to say "fuck it" and magickally palm all the shit out of your footlockers and sneak out again anyway.

Actually I like your attitude.  It is unrealistic for you to just loot their footlockers, but it is equally unrealistic that you are forced to get locked behind the doors.  I would say, if you are forced to follow someone into the compound, do this.  Steal their shit completely.  Junk the things you can not take.  So long that you did not have chance to stop because they spam passed the gates (not because you were watching TV at the same time), I say it seems fair to me.

[Reiloth]

When this happens, I make sure to poison the water supply of the compound.

Honestly man, I feel you, i've had it happen numerous times. I just play it out IC. Why? Shadowing people is dangerous. Especially if you are good at it.

Yes, the follow code is messed up. But that doesn't really give you the right to label people who disagree with you as 'fucking newbs'.

We all try to get along here. Somehow.

I poo-poo on your criticism.

[Maybe42or54]

How about another nosave trigger?

Nosave compound

This command will stop you if you are performing a stealthy follow from following someone into a compound that you can't get out of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDwODbl3muE

[Lizzie]

I don't spam walk. However, I do type fast enough that I am only delayed as long as the code requires me to be delayed. Sometimes I emote during my walks/rides. Sometimes I don't. I would suggest if you don't want to end up stuck anywhere I could possibly lead you, don't follow. Or use the "stop" command if it looks like I'm heading in the general direction of somewhere you don't want to be. Or follow self. Or flee up. I usually pause -before- I head out somewhere. So you have plenty of opportunity to change your mind about following me, long before I start moving. Once I'm moving though - well you can either follow me into the building, or smack your head against the door when it closes, end up with a concussion, and go into a coma for the rest of your life. Think of it as me doing you a -huge- favor. I'm rescuing you from a vegetative existence. I accept chocolates for a token of your gratitude.

[X-D]

And sometimes it is simply the PC personality.

At times I play a PC who simply does not give a shit. When he is traveling, that is what he is doing, he is working to get to a destination and ignoring pretty much everything else. Normaly toss an emote that shows that, if you miss it or ignore it, oh well.

[Reiloth]

To further add my opinion, as i'm sure all of you want to hear it:

I will not make exceptions OOC if ICly what I am doing is not only convenient, but I have -no fucking idea your shadowing assassin is shadowing me, nor should I, nor should I make exceptions for a potential shadowing assassin of doom-. I will walk through my gates. And I will say Hi to the gate guard if it is IC to do so. If i'm a Noble, I shouldn't even acknowledge his existence. If its a former butt-buddy of mine, I might make a butt-buddy joke in passing. Otherwise, I will just walk up to my gate, and walk through it, and watch as it closes.

Stop command is useful.

Otherwise, shadowing someone is dangerous. Its just the name of the game. Shadowing. If they discover you, they will flip.

You might retort saying "My character wouldn't mean to follow this dude into his compound." Well, your character makes mistakes. Maybe he got caught with the surge of the crowd, and popped into the compound like the wet afterbirth of Eve.

I again stand by my opinion of not making IC allowances for OOC convenience.

[Kalden]

Does 'follow self' even have delays? Certain commands, like stop, have no delays. Follow self should be one of those.

[Doppelganger]

What if I'm lagging?  What if I just typed "listen" or some other lag-inducing comand?

It sucks when it happens, does not it? Should not you be fucking happy that you got away with being stuck in compound, while sometimes these things are able to outright kill character?

Do you consider that your opponent might be lagged when you are ready to strike? I'll go ahead and say that you don't, so what is the ground for your expectations that somebody would care about possible problems on your side when they are not even aware of your presence?

Otherwise, next time I'm going to say "fuck it" and magickally palm all the shit out of your footlockers and sneak out again anyway.  Don't try this "tough beans" shit with me, I've been playing far too long to be "pooh-poohed" by a bunch of fucking newbs.

Well, it's you who has problems with basic procedures, not those fucking newbs.

As for your and Ghost's joint bid to take OOC revenge whenever you feel that somebody didn't think for you or didn't accept the blame for your failure, I'd say go ahead. Sorry if I fail to take your protests seriously, I am not yet convinced that intentionaly you two are able to screw more things than you do casually.

[Janna]

Guess I'm a nOOb. This, imho, is completely on the sneaky. If I don't know you're there, sorry about your luck. There are easy ways around being caught with this IG, in a brief example, if the char you're trailing is four rooms away from the Kadius compound and heading that way...chances are...If they're just coming out and duck back in again and you get caught, well that one would suck and you'd likely need to wish up on it. I'll spam walk sometimes, usually when I'm throwing in 'thinks' in order to multi-task, so to speak. So assuming I'm just spam walking you into the compound without doing anything (even though I don't know you're there) is a bit much.

Gimf says "Don't assume the worst of your fellow player." 

[brytta.leofa]

Good people, as I see it, spamwalking is not an in-character phenomenon; it's a convenience.
Shadowing someone into a locked, guarded compound due to command lag isn't an in-character phenomenon, either.

Since the problem's been brought up, I'll try to start taking a moment at gates.  I may not always remember, but it's not a big deal to me.  And less spamwalking is a safer proposition for both of us, anyway.

[The Archbishop]

That's a pretty rediculous request. If your shadowing someone you better be prepared to be locked in somewhere.
People aren't gonna cater to the invisible shadow behind them. Welcome to the rough life of a rogue.

[Krath]

Synthesis, The answer to your question is, If it is IC for my PC to stop and stand at the gates then I am going to do it. But I am guessing the answer is going to be No from a majority. If you dont want to be in that situiation, think about who you are shadowing and if it is worth it. Else, dont complain about it because it is the result of your PCs actions that got you in the situation in the first place.

[Krath]

I've been playing far too long to be "pooh-poohed" by a bunch of fucking newbs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA My New quote.

[Malken]

Gimf says "Don't assume the worst of your fellow player." 

Threads like these are the reasons why I always assume the worst of Armageddon's players. Both sides prove to me that we have very childish behaviors who just plainly refuse to "lose". And if they lose, they'll break as many of your toys as they can before they get caught.

So yes, I'll always assume the worst when it comes to Armageddon's players.

[Marauder Moe]

Ummm... most Armageddon players aren't on a side when it comes to this thread, and many others like it.

[Akaramu]

Cookies anyone?

The buxom, rosy-cheeked half-giant begins baking.

[Maybe42or54]

Just to throw out the idea one more time.

Nosave Compound would be a very useful thing. However, why are you shadowing someone if you aren't trying to get into their compound? Are you acting unrealistic by trying to follow people from one tavern to another just to train? If you shadow them, and they spam, well, odds are, they are going to spam to wherever they go. Not stop whenever and then just start acting like a normal slow moving person.

Or the other player saw you follow them and they were being an ass.

*cough*Nosave Compound*Cough*

[psionic fungus]

Here's a question:

Does 'follow self' still have command lag?

If so, why doesn't it go through instantly like an emote or OOC command?

Is it realistic to not be able to stop following someone when you want?

[Ghost]

Does 'follow self' still have command lag?

I think, following someone has a lag on itself.  If the person you follow moves, you get a lag depending on the spam walking.  Follow self I think does not give you a delay on itself, but I guess it still gets stacked among the other commands.  So if you are following someone who is spam walking, you have a hard time to stop following them (If they are spam walking too much, there is a chance they may lose you though).
This was so last time I checked, I may be wrong and someone might have to correct me on that.

As for your and Ghost's joint bid to take OOC revenge whenever you feel that somebody didn't think for you or didn't accept the blame for your failure...

Awww, you are breaking my heart man.  Look, I feel pretty fine if I spamwalked and put someone in an OOCly difficult situation, I am OK if they steal my stuff and break my valuables.  If I am saying "it is IC that you got locked in" it is equally IC for them to take advantage of the situation.  Most of the times, it is for OOC reasons you get stuck in though.  I stopped shadowing people several RL years ago after getting locked inside odd places (and thus had a huge library of others' mudsexxx logs). Ever since, I manually sneak/follow them if I want to follow them unseen.  Is it tough to follow them manually?  Hell yes.  But it beats the risk of getting locked inside somewhere and dealing with OOC frustration.
I know how hard it is to follow someone manually, so I am not asking anyone else to do the same hardwork.  But from what I experienced, there is a good risk out there, if the guy you follow is spam walking (I spam walk too, so no big deal there either) there is a good risk there you will end up somewhere you don't want to be.  If I am the guy you follow, and if I spam walked and put you in that situation, take my heartfelt apologies and take your frustration from my stuff, I don't think it is a big deal.

[psionic fungus]

I think, following someone has a lag on itself.  If the person you follow moves, you get a lag depending on the spam walking.  Follow self I think does not give you a delay on itself, but I guess it still gets stacked among the other commands.  So if you are following someone who is spam walking, you have a hard time to stop following them (If they are spam walking too much, there is a chance they may lose you though).
This was so last time I checked, I may be wrong and someone might have to correct me on that.

Hmm...

I believe emotes are parsed normally when you are following?  Perhaps "follow" could be given similar priority?

[mansa]

This can all be eased up by implementing a lag on the NPCs who open and close the gates.  Perhaps the same lag that players have when they have to remove their keyrings, and unlock doors from their keyrings.

I think we should make NPCs the same as PCs. 

[Reiloth]

This can all be eased up by implementing a lag on the NPCs who open and close the gates.  Perhaps the same lag that players have when they have to remove their keyrings, and unlock doors from their keyrings.

I think we should make NPCs the same as PCs. 

This is well put.

[Salt Merchant]

It's a valid problem, that the character shadowing the mark can't choose when to stop if the mark spam walks.

One solution is to make "follow me" an instant command. I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be.

[jstorrie]

I don't see any reason why 'follow me' shouldn't be instant, either.

[Ghost]

I believe emotes are parsed normally when you are following?  Perhaps "follow" could be given similar priority?

I believe ooc bypasses any delay, and I think emotes as well.  Yes, I think follow should be given a similar priority.

[Zalanthan]

Like several others have already pointed out, making "follow self" instantaneous seems like the easiest solution to this issue.  I wonder if the only reason it has command delay comes from the other instances of follow (where the delay makes sense)?  If that's the case, perhaps STOP could be expanded to clear the command queue of follow- or shadow- based directions as well?  Even with these proposed changes the only surefire way to avoid OOCly following someone off a cliff or into their compound is to manually follow them as PF suggested.

[bracken]

Or all compounds have
      open gate