The dwarven nonfocus.

[Freman Scum]

I play a dwarf.  I've played several.  I'm very very good at playing them, as long as you like your dwarves gruff, funny and roudy.

I have been told that unless I stay focused on my focus at all times with my character that I do not play dwarves well.

Truth be told, my dwarves do lack focus.  They are much more concerned with the next tankard of ale or the next oportunit to "kill sheet" as he would put it.  But concern is even a drastic word to use when looking at my dwarves.  They are rough, barking, yet easy going sorts that love to laugh.

I base a lot of my characterazation on the Scotts.  A drunk scottsman is the perfect dwarf.  (I'm part scottish, I know what I'm talking about.)

I have met other dwarves who are totally focused on their goal.  I mean compleatly so.  And they just seem too preocupied to embody the dwarven persona.

While playing one of these dwarves, I receaved a point of Karma.  It's nice to know your loved.  But I wonder....

Do you see dwarves as a preocupied, studius, focused race?

Or do you see dwarves as ale guzzeling, dwarven love stick waving, gruff little warriors?

[John]

A little bit from column A, and a little bit from column B.

Your dwarf's focus may be "to enjoy life", "to follow sport".

NOT everyone has to be ambitious, not even dwarves. How ambitious and focused a dwarf is, all depends on the dwarf.

I personally don't think I could play a dwarf well, they're much too stubborn. Not that I'm not stubborn. But if I were to play a dwarf, I'd kill him off due to the fact he'd be -too- stubborn.

[Inquisitor]

I think it's important to stick to the characteristics of the race you're
playing, but it's equally important to have a distinct personality.  So
the way I see it there's no reason why two dwarves, even if they
shared identical foci, should be at all similar.  There's no reason why a
dwarf has to be competent either, or clever about the choices he or she
makes in trying to achieve the focus.  I'd expect a dwarf to put a lot of
thought into the goal though, all the same.

So one dwarf might be fond of a drink and lack social graces, and aim
to keep a road clear of bandits by patrolling regularly and recklessly
charging anyone he identifies as a raider.  He might be totally convinced
his way is best, and spurn advice.  Another with the same goal could be
cautious, worldly and keenly aware that he's not up to the job alone,
soliciting help from other folk and approaching the task with a longterm
view of establishing some kind of permanent 'road warden' company.

Probably bad examples, but they're both recognisably -dwarves- and
won't be swayed from trying to keep that road safe.  They're also
distinct -people-, with different attitudes and methods.

In other words, I'm not bothered by a gruff, buff, drunken dwarf.  I'd
argue against all of them being like that though, and I think they should
definitely have a focus, which is their main trait according to the Arm docs.

For what it's worth.  I've played a grand total of, err, 1 dwarf.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I have a solid opinion on this.  For ever action a dwarf takes, he should either be directly trying to move towards his focus, or be thinking about his focus while he does it.

Does this make all dwarves studious?  Nope.  Dwarven personalities can be just as varying as human personalities, and even similar to them.  A dwarf could be pessimistic, constantly complaining that his focus will never come to pass, grim, cleaving and intimidating his way through his foes and willing to strike somebody dead if he even suspects they will get in his way, benevolent, lending a hand to anybody who needs it and in turn asking that they aid him in his cause, or hell, even ale-guzzling, simply because his focus demands neither sobriety nor a serious outlook on life.

However, not all dwarves are ale-guzzling, fun-loving, runty little warriors, that would be the bearded dwarf of a typical fantasy setting.  I'll put this bluntly, that isn't any better than playing a whimsical, peaceful, nature-loving elf who believes in protecting woodland creatures.

A key thing to remember is a dwarf's personality isn't shaped by his focus, his focus is shaped by his personality.

A grim dwarf didn't become grim just because he wanted to be the most feared bounty hunter on this side of the Shield Wall.  He's been dire and morbid ever since he was knee-high to a tregil, so its only natural that he became attracted to such a grisly goal.  Likewise, benevolent and pessimistic dwarves would choose a goal to reflect their attitudes.  Nobodies saying that you have to play the quiet and dedicated monk, single-minded in his lofty spiritual goal.

In fact, next time you play a dwarf then start by picking a persona.  Maybe from somebody colorful you know in RL, or a fantasy character from a game or novel.  Then choose a focus, thinking carefully about what sort of a goal that person might have.

[Zulu Maud]

Well, I'm not much of a roleplayer yet, but I have spent the better part of my life on the whole process of character creation, and as a general rule, I don't think it's ever a good idea to start with another fictional character as the basis for a character's persona.  It's a Xerox of a Xerox problem - any small lack of detail or realism in the original character is going to be magnified in the new character, plus new gaps thrown in.  I'm not sure how to describe it... the character just ends up feeling empty, no matter how slight the influence was.  I'd stick to real people or facets of one's own personality, or just the odd influences.

[Samoa]

I'd stick to real people or facets of one's own personality, or just the odd influences.

*shrug*, whatever works for whoever.  So long as you don't intend to MAKE that one character.

Me, personally, all my characters are facets of me.  I don't think I could play one that wasn't...even the bad guys, whoever I'm roleplaying is me, to some degree, just accentuated highly..I think most people do this.

[Avril]

A key thing to remember is a dwarf's personality isn't shaped by his focus, his focus is shaped by his personality.

You must mean his temperament, because his overall personality would eventually be shaped by his focus, his relationships with other individuals etc. One's temperament is his natural tendency to act in some way, whereas a personality includes one's temperament, personality, memory skills, intelligence and several other psychological traits.

I never did play a dwarf, and I seem careful enough that I won't get the chance to play one in the near future... I did intend to design a dwarf at some point, and the first idea I wanted to develop was, obviously, the character's focus. This proved bad in some ways, as it forced me to bend and conform my character in order to explain his focus. The search for a fitting character and background proved so tiresome that I abandoned the concept altogether. Some players might enjoy this metaphysical jigsaw puzzle, however, and those stubborn enough to go through its more challenging variants might be better suited at playing dwarven characters than I am.

To the point of "studious" vs. "drunk"... I have to say that, if a hotheaded dwarf were to see his friend embarass himself in a drunk rage, that dwarf might just reach a high enough level of anger to decide that alcohol is overall horrible, and that he's going to tear down every stinking tavern in the world, if he can spare some time from his really important focus. A cool-headed dwarf who knew his interests, on the other hand, would constantly try and figure out how to twist the drunken rage towards the achievement of his focus... Both dwarves might be equally stubborn, but one would more easily burden himself with commitments than the other. Similarly, a lazy dwarf might opt for a trip at the local tavern if he can't think of anything better to do, but a determined one would actively seek out ways to approach his goals. A narrow-minded dwarf with the "build a stairway up and down the Shield Wall" would go all the way through the desert and start chiseling by himself, but a broad-minded one would constantly dream up creative ways to handle the construction/destruction, and decide to try employing all of them. An amused dwarf might warp laughter exclusively around his focus, or quite the opposite, gladly laugh at anything but his Sacred Calling. The interaction between focus and personality offers some interesting possibilities... And not only that, it also keeps Armageddon to the true Dark Sun feel - that is to say, it lays a shadow over the blinding light of "fantasy" stereotypes. You can easily have a grim, narrow-minded, determined and hot-headed dwarf that prefers only a certain variety of jokes, or a rational, profound, lazy and broad-minded dwarf with a witty charm that surpasses any human's... All it takes to design a good enough dwarven character is to actually analyze him, rather than draw his personality from the basis of his being "focused" or not.

[Carnage]

I've gotten sick of all the damn dwarves with Scottish accents. For crying out loud, EVERY dwarf with an accent has a Scottish accent. A SCOTTISH ACCENT! How is it that if several generations of a dwarf's family have been living in an area, they STILL retain the accent from who knows where from who knows how long ago?

Most accents annoy me, in general. I've got nothing against minor ones, but there are people with ones so thick I have to say to myself, "What the fuck did they just say?" and show it to someone else to see if they can translate it.

[Wintermute]

I tend to enjoy accents very much, myself.  Players have been using accents for as long as I can remember and it's always given additional flavour to my Armageddon experience.  These people are actively working to portray a certain aspect of their character, which for me only enhances atmosphere and RP.

If you, as the player can't understand the accent, then play your PC as not understanding.  How this detracts from your RP experience is beyond me.  I can only see it creating all sorts of RP opportunity, from misunderstandings leading to confusion and conflict to going to get a 'translator' to help ease the conversation.  

The imms have taken note of the long-running player tradition of accents and hard-coded an accent system in.  Accents now formally exist in the game world, but the code only tells you OOCly as a player the the PC you're talking sounds different than what your PC is used to hearing.

Right now, this system is limited to north/south/rinthi.  I would love to see it extended to PCs that are non-native speakers tongues - ie. an allundean accent.  Even if this was only implemented for sirihish, being the dominant language in the Known World, it'd be awesome.

But even if it was, it'd still be up to the players to put RP flesh on the hard-coded bones.  The willingness of the players to do this while on Crack is part of what makes the game great.  Just think how bland your Crack would become if everybody suddenly stopped emoting.

[Noah]

I don't see any problem with players who want their Dwarves to have a Scottish accent.  Though, I -have- noticed that almost every PC dwarf I have -ever- seen carries this accent.  Nothing too bad about it, I think people are just trying to carry over traditional, bearded, mountain-dwelling fantasy dwarves into Armageddon (where they may be the exact same thing, just bald).  But in the Darksun world (it may or may not be fair to compare Arm with Darksun these days), dwarves are -quite- different, I noticed they speak with even higher levels of articulate speaking than higher-classed humans.

[Carnage]

Great, it's improved your Armageddon experience. It hasn't for me, just as I'm sure there are points of Armageddon that I enjoy that you don't.

A problem with accents is that no one is exactly sure what a Northerner or a Southerner or Rinth Rat is supposed to sound like. In my opinion, there should be some docs on it. I see Northerners as having drawls, like the south of the United States, while the Southerners sound like folks from the Connecticut region. Rinthis, to me, sound like they're from Brooklyn. I can't stop laughing when one gets angry, because I keep picturing them yelling, "'Ey, 'ow'd you like a sword up tha wazoo?!"

Then there's racial accents that people throw in. The dwarven one bothers me, because I can go pick up a Dragonlance novel, and a dwarf among a group of humans will have a Scottish accent. A Forgotten Realms novel, and the same thing. I might've seen it in Tolkien, too, but I'm not too sure about that. My point is, EVERY freakin' dwarf and their brother, their cousin, their cousin's friend, their best friend's cousin, or whatever, has a Scottish accent. It's overplayed, in my opinion.

Just think how bland your Crack would become if everybody suddenly stopped emoting.

That has nothing to do with accents. Acting and emoting are the foundations of roleplaying. Accents are not.

[Rindan]

Personally, I do accents more to show education level and sophistication rather then place of origin.  For instance, if I am playing a crude and thuggish mercenary straight out of the Allanaki commons, then he will have a very thick accent and probably make excessive use of curses.  I know that one character I played had a mouth that would make a New Yorker blush and a thick accent to boot.  I just see accents as giving an indication that they are speaking different from the sophisticated norm.  Whether or not it is inline with how a Northerner or a Southerner would speak doesn't bother me much, as there is no documentation to indicate how to show this.  Just the fact that my character doesn't speak like a noble is the point I try and portray with I use an accent.

[Wintermute]

That has nothing to do with accents. Acting and emoting are the foundations of roleplaying. Accents are not.

You seem to want to seperate the use of accents from acting/emoting, things you consider to be foundationary.  This doesn't really seem to be a valid distinction for me.  How is it that emoting how a PC sits down in a chair is so seperate and different than using a pre-determined linguistic structure to colour how a PC says something?  Isn't how your character does things as opposed to other characters part of acting out that character in a fictional world?  

I'll provide an example, to make it more concrete.

Your character, X, is an ex-slave, now a free commoner.  He'd grown up as a slave belonging to a noble in a minor house.  His master, who had a particular sadistic streak, had captured and publicly tortured a dwarven commoner's wife, because he thought it'd be fun.  The dwarf, vowing revenge, made it his focus to bring down the noble, any way he could.  Not having the means to directly do anything against the noble, he began to plant ideas in X's head through the Way - his slavery being unjust, serving a cruel master, the joys of freedom, etc.  X's behaviour slowly began to change and eventually he confronted his master.  Incredibly angry, his master devised all sorts of cruel tortures for X, including one that resulted in X's face becoming horribly deformed.  In the end, X was a cripple, but still somehow retained his rebellious nature, thanks in no small part to the dwarf, always in his head.  So, the X's master dumped him out on to the street and X was finally free.

How would I play X - how would I act him out?  I would almost certainly make him bitter.  Bitter towards life (even though he's free, he's a cripple), but especially bitter towards nobility (they're the ones that did this to him).. but maybe not outwardly so (because he's afraid of more torture).  Being a cripple, I would also emote him having difficulty doing normal things other people take for granted - sitting, walking, lifting, etc.  As well, since his face was mangled, when having him talk, I'd use an 'accent', maybe a lisp, or other sort of deformation of the words.

If X's 'accent' makes it harder for you as a player to understand, well good, because it forces you to play your character as also not understanding.

It's entirely true that there are no defined norms for accents (besides perhaps a Scottish accent for dwarves, hah!).  But this is part of the fun, since it doesn't necessarily limit a player's imagination.  Something else to keep in mind is that, as someone pointed out in another thread, the way people talk changes over time. Rindan said he tends to use accents less with geographical location and more with upbringing/history.  Different people in an area could have all sorts of reasons for speaking differently.  

True, in the end, the code still tells you that they're from the north, but it just might be some variation your character picks up in intonation, cadence, or what have you.  A character who speaks 'roughly' might sound different from fritzy noble speak, but they both could be recognizable as from the south.  Similarly in RL, someone from Jersey might speak differently than someone does in Boston, but I can easily recognize that they're East Coasters.

I'm not advocating that everyone and their gortok has to speak with an accent, just as I don't care to force people to emote.  But to rail on people that do speak with accents or emote, or whatever else they do to more accurately portray their character to us, the adoring Crack Audience is uncalled for and tragic.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Well, I'm not much of a roleplayer yet, but I have spent the better part of my life on the whole process of character creation, and as a general rule, I don't think it's ever a good idea to start with another fictional character as the basis for a character's persona. It's a Xerox of a Xerox problem - any small lack of detail or realism in the original character is going to be magnified in the new character, plus new gaps thrown in.

*Shrug*

If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you.  That doesn't mean it won't work for other people, nor does it mean that it can't work for you in the future.  I think that your problem is that your just taking fictional characters for what an author has already presented them to you as, and not trying to make them your own.  Twisting them to your own design is the most important part.  Fill in the gaps yourself!  The author might not have given a character a family, a list of pet peeves, or an opinion on Zalanthian elves and dwarves (that probably don't even exist in the world he was previousl from).  Does that mean he doesn't have any of those things?  Nope.  The Author only needed to fill in what was relevant to the text.  Your job is more difficult, because you don't know what the text is going to be!  Make the character a Zalanthian, and flesh him out more than the author ever had a need to.

[deviant storm]

I would love to see it extended to PCs that are non-native speakers tongues - ie. an allundean accent. Even if this was only implemented for sirihish, being the dominant language in the Known World, it'd be awesome

I'm all for that! Or a Red Storm accent for people who start there.

I think accents are fine, because they add salt to the game. Flavor it. The average commoner has no education, and no doubt words get twisted as they're handed down in culture with an oral tradition behind it. (Stories get passed down from person to person orally, and remembered, because no one can write or read).

So the language is flavored by the accents. I picture what it would be like to have an elf standing there, speaking with an allundean accent (might sound like a french accent, maybe?). And I think that sounds cool.

Deviant Storm

[Carnage]

There IS a distinction between emoting and accents.

Is it acceptable to play Armageddon without emoting once? Nope. Is it acceptable to play Armageddon without ever having an accent? Yep.

You can EMOTE your character having difficulty speaking.

The mangled mul says, in sihrish, stumbling incomprehensibly, 'Nobles suck'. So what, people can understand him. It's MY call for when MY character can distinguish things, not yours. What if he's spent his time around people with lisps. Maybe his mother had a lisp, and so he's familiar with it. It's the player's call, not yours.

It's wrong to force a character to not understand what you're saying by confusing the player. In principle, it's the same thing as emoting punching me in the face without using the touch command. You're dictating to me what my character can and can't do/understand.

[Rindan]

It's wrong to force a character to not understand what you're saying by confusing the player. In principle, it's the same thing as emoting punching me in the face without using the touch command. You're dictating to me what my character can and can't do/understand.

I am going to have to completely disagree.  There is nothing wrong with playing with an accent, or even a heavy accent.  I have found that even the heaviest of RPed accents quickly become understandable once you have been around that character for a little while.  If you have to puzzle through it some times, just ask for clarification.  It is absolutely ridiculously to equate emoting punching someone in the face as being anything like playing a 'rinther with a barely understandable accent.

As far as dictating what your character can and can not understand, that is also tough.  It is no different from a liar not throwing in some tone to his voice to make it clear to the player that he is lying.  He is dictating that you don't recognize it is a lie by the tone, so what?

[Carnage]

I am going to have to completely disagree. There is nothing wrong with playing with an accent, or even a heavy accent.

No, there's not. But there's certainly something wrong with deliberately playing an accent to confuse the player, so his character can't understand.

It is absolutely ridiculously to equate emoting punching someone in the face as being anything like playing a 'rinther with a barely understandable accent.

Care to elaborate?

You took that out of context. Using an accent to confuse a player and therefore not having his character understand is telling them what happens to his character, just as punching them without using 'attempting' or other such words, or the hit command, is telling them what happens to their character.

[John]

Using an accent to confuse a player and therefore not having his character understand is telling them what happens to his character, just as punching them without using 'attempting' or other such words, or the hit command, is telling them what happens to their character.

No, it isn't. You want your character to be completely impossible to understand to confuse people? that's fine, people do similar things all the time. Make your character look nice so they get hired by nobles. Exactly the same thing.

If your character changes his accent so some people can understand him, is also fine, AS LONG as he realises he's faking the accent, and it's not just a co-incidence.

All IMO.

[X-D]

Well, Having played a few dwarves, and loving everyone of them, I just wanted to say, on the subject of focus, I like it, but I use it as a driving force of my dwarven charecters life, but I also think that the dwarf does not really know what a 'focus' is just that it is this urge to do something and some things (the ones that will help to fulfill this urge) feel right and others, feel wrong.

On accent My dwarves only speak with an accent in sirihish :wink:
since I do not think that two dwarves speaking mirukkim will notice an accent of any sort other then the coded type.

but over all, I like accents and focus.

[Rindan]

No, there's not. But there's certainly something wrong with deliberately playing an accent to confuse the player, so his character can't understand.

Why on earth would someone use an accent for the singular purpose of confusing other people?  What could they possible gain from their inability to communicate with others?  I highly doubt that there is a rash of accent users that wander around smashing their fingers on the keyboard with the goal of confusing anyone around them and 'forcing' their characters to be unable to understand them.  If they are 'forcing' people to not understand them, then it is the same as someone coming in after being cooked in the sun or fried by a Krathi who wanders around mumbling jibberish for a few days.  If it is so bad that it can't be understood, then just treat it is jibberish.

[mansa]

The mangled mul says, in sihrish, stumbling incomprehensibly, 'Nobles suck'. So what, people can understand him. It's MY call for when MY character can distinguish things, not yours. What if he's spent his time around people with lisps. Maybe his mother had a lisp, and so he's familiar with it. It's the player's call, not yours.

It's wrong to force a character to not understand what you're saying by confusing the player.

I disagree.  I -enjoy very much- a lisp, or a difficulty.  Here's how I view it.

the mangled mul says, in sirihish:
   "nobles suck"

Compaired to...

Lisping heavily, the mangled mul says, in sirihish:
   "Nobles suck."

Compaired to...

Lisping heavily, the mangled mul says, in sirihish:
   "Noblesh shuk."


It's clearly visible.   I myself, I am a speed reader.  I sometimes skip little parts of sentances and paragraphs.  Sometimes I miss little details like that.  If you leave it up to the players, then your message might not be received the way you want it to.  I try and do everything I can to portray how my character acts, and feels.  At least, I try.

[Wintermute]

Is it acceptable to play Armageddon without emoting once? Nope. Is it acceptable to play Armageddon without ever having an accent? Yep.

The answer to the first question should be yes.

Nobody is going to force a player to emote sits on the rickety chair, pulling his torn and tattered cloak about herself, displeasure clearly plastered across her face before typing sit.  Yes, we would all like to see the first happen, but it's not unacceptable if you never do.

Accents are the same way.  But to say that we shouldn't use them, I don't agree with.

The mangled mul says, in sihrish, stumbling incomprehensibly, 'Nobles suck'. So what, people can understand him. It's MY call for when MY character can distinguish things, not yours. What if he's spent his time around people with lisps. Maybe his mother had a lisp, and so he's familiar with it. It's the player's call, not yours.

If that mul just said something incomprehensible, then why are you forcing the player to spit something out that is, inviting abuse?  Exactly what is the problem with the mul saying (incomprehensibly) Blarghnarfhg?  Why is it YOUR call for when your character can distinguish things, when the other player obviously doesn't want YOU to be able to distinguish them?  If you want to play your character's mother as having a lisp, then power to you, but don't complain when someone starts speaking with one to illustrate exactly how their character is supposed to be talking.  Maybe your mother's lisp was different enough that you don't understand, or have trouble.

No, there's not. But there's certainly something wrong with deliberately playing an accent to confuse the player, so his character can't understand.

Someone speaking with a heavy accent isn't trying to deliberately confuse you the player.  They are deliberately trying to portray their character as how they think they should be speaking.  It's just a side consequence that you the player don't understand.  If you want to play your character as some sort of automagickal master linguist, then power to you, but the onus is now on you to figure out what people are saying.

[Carnage]

Rindan

If X's 'accent' makes it harder for you as a player to understand, well good, because it forces you to play your character as also not understanding.

I don't know, ask Wintermute, as he seems to be encouraging it.

It's amusing, though, how you seem to take my dislike for accents and persecute me for it and try to make me look incompetent. I, personally, can't make very much heads or tails of accents. That's me, just as you can't do certain things very well, either. I don't see why a character who's spent all their time around Luir's Outpost should have to suffer and not understand someone from Luir's with an accent I can't understand.

Mansa
Got nothing against small stuff like that. Easy enough to understand.

Wintermute
I'll remember that when one of your characters pisses off one of mine and I just run into the room and kill him without any warning. We'll see what your position on emoting is then.

[Freman Scum]

Personally, I base accents on what socal class the character is more than race or starting location.  I think someone pointed this out before.

When I use accents I do not use an accent when using native tougne, think, or the way.  He simply speaks -that- language that way.

The burly, half drunk dwarf says to you in sirihish,
 Ahm onla 'alf drunk meh bucko!

Some things to keep in mind with understanding accents...

Lots of people:
Drop the Hs and put in a ' instead.  'Ow ya doin'?
Drop the Gs in "ing"s
Use Ah instead of I (and it's variations, ie I'm I've and such)
Use "a" instead of "er".  Yee that new Troopa?
Use Yee or ya instead of you.
Add an "h" to make it a soft "eh" sound.  Meh instead of me.

It all depends on what you are going for, but that's a lot of the stuff I do.  I spell a lot of things phentically so that if you simply sound out the word, you will understand how my character is saying things.