Support

[RogueGunslinger]

I honestly don't care if I get a response. Because if i didn't get a response, i didn't get it. Why should I care -why- I didn't get one? I have no problem re-wishing a question or re-wishing that someone need logged out Either an IMM sees it and helps me, they don't see it, or they see it and cant help me. I understand it can be frustrating not to get an answer, but I just go and play my PC and stay IC, and if the problem still persists after a while I re-wish.

I believe that every wish should create a support ticket that the immortals should go through and answer.

I believe that every input the player has into the game should be answered in some form - whether it be Yes, No, We'll be with you in a Bit.

I believe that ignoring a playerbase from the administrator staff is a terrible thing

And I agree with you 100%. I don't want the staff to ignore us, but that doesn't mean I have to have an answer to believe that they aren't.

[Goldberry]

Such blind faith is admirable. 

[RogueGunslinger]

Such blind faith is admirable. 

I'm a glass half-full kind of guy.

[My 2 sids]

Half-full or not, I think we should look at patterns.  Specifically, if there tends to be high-karma, long-term players who continue to question the leadership ability of the staff, question if their being heard, and create indep. characters outside the IMM-ran clans...  I think that suggests an over all "bad taste" left in the mouths of players who have had decent interaction with Staff.

Further, nothing... nothing is more frustrating than for a seasoned player to get a responce from staff which A) doesn't fully address the comment/question and B) would be a canned responce staff would send to some newbie player.   

[a strange shadow]

Improvements can always be made, but ArmageddonMUD's volunteer staff does a far better job than most other games, even pay-for-play. If you want real examples of backbiting and favoritism, I could point you toward other MUDS to try. Here, I've had a couple bad experiences and I've had many good ones, and I'm one of said "high-karma, long-term" players. I expect your experience with the staff also depends on how you as a player approach things just as much as it depends on how they deal with it. Politeness, directness, and honesty go a long way, and passive-aggressive bitching generally gets a negative response.

[My 2 sids]

Improvements can always be made, but ArmageddonMUD's volunteer staff does a far better job than most other games, even pay-for-play. If you want real examples of backbiting and favoritism, I could point you toward other MUDS to try. Here, I've had a couple bad experiences and I've had many good ones, and I'm one of said "high-karma, long-term" players. I expect your experience with the staff also depends on how you as a player approach things just as much as it depends on how they deal with it. Politeness, directness, and honesty go a long way, and passive-aggressive bitching generally gets a negative response.

No one's saying they are doing a poor job.  However, there are always areas in need of improvement (which I was under the impression this thread was about).

Secondly, the fact this is volunteer and not other games has little relivence.  The IMMs are good on their own account, not simply because they are volunteers or in comparason to other sub-standard games.

[Dusky]

Eh.  In the old days the staff was bad.
Today's staff is far more professional.
It helps when we remove our expectations - you expect them to meet your standards, but really they need to meet their own.  Our own internal standards are not something that the staff (or anyone else) should concern themselves with - and why should they? What are our expectations but something we've made up in our heads.

The staff does a good job for a bunch of underpaid mud-addicts at running the game and answering questions.  Are they perfect. Then again, I bet they are better staffers than most players are players.

I say this having been (in the old days) the one benefiting from favoritism (no clue how - guess I knew someone who knew someone) and having it do nothing but piss me off.  When I outted the folks doing it, my character was deleted.

Things are far better now and the game, as a system in all its complexity, deserves every bit of praise that it gets.

Before we level complaints that sound like sour grapes (and no offense, this is what I hear in Mansa's posts) we need to take a hard look at ourselves and ask ourselves why we expect others to do as we prefer them to.  I, for one, would not hold myself to your standards.  I hold myself to my own.

[My 2 sids]

Eh.  In the old days the staff was bad.
Today's staff is far more professional.

And maybe that's just it.  It could be some who have been around for a long time don't know the new staff and are simply going by what they knew.   Reguardless, I'm thinking Arm.2 could bring back a few old players... if that's the case then they need resurance that anything which may have driven them off before is being addressed now.

[X-D]

You know what I want to see in Arm2.

Stricter rules to account notes.
Like a rule of "Please refrain from adding personal opinion unless you know the FULL context of the situation."

Noting an account with "So and so appears to be ignoring  "something game world" and is doing this"
Or, even worse, and something seen just as often, "So and so is ignoring  "something game world" and is doing this"
Sets a bias that may well be uncalled for. This thing being done may very well be long planned, or whatever.
But even with thinks, feels, BIO etc,  there is little chance that the PC has been watched enough for things to be in context.
Going along with that, I think Arm2 needs a freeze/suspend/pause command that works on EVERYTHING in a given area and defined from a single PC, to room, to span of rooms, to zone to world. So a staffer could type say "freeze room 10555" and EVERYTHING cept for wishes and OOC stops in that room, nothing can enter it but staff, not even an arrow or kankfly. And staff should be allowed to question actions or get clarifications at that time instead of simply reacting or forming an opinion after the fact.
Or even to be able to go "OOC Hold on a moment, I need time to make the world in the area react in a realistic manner to your actions."
And for the player to help staff on questions as well. "OOC Sure, also you might want to check my PCs bio entries #3,6,21,22 and 30."


Also, Would it be possible to give NPCs a memory buffer, or at least some of them?
Currently if a staffer wants to see what happened someplace they have to check the room logs, which I've heard is a major pain in the ass.
Reason I think that would help is WAY TOO often when I've played leaders, on asking an NPC whos JOB is to watch an area, I get some answer like "What, you think I have time to pay attention?" When the NPCs job is to do exactly that..
Its a Door guards JOB to know EXACTLY who goes through that door, Maybe not what people are talking about around him, so, give him a memery flag that only remembers  sdesc of people coming through the door. The guard in the store room on the other hand might not remember who came and went, but would maybe know who got what from what containers. The barracks guard should remember who went to sleep, who woke up (quit/entered game)  and any fights  and such. The serving wench might have listen, and not remember who came and went, but remember things heard and emotes.  It would take a few memory flags of course to do it, and each entry would need a time stamp in RL minutes so a staffer could more easily query the memory.  So typing query npc 120-10 would get 120 minutes ago to 10 minutes ago. Then a staffer would be able to more easily and realisticly get the npc to react. Even if they only entered the game 5 minutes ago. Hell, some NPCs would have longer memories then others as well.  So being able to set it from say 100 entries to say 5000 entries.

And, its something that could also be automated for PC use as well. No reason why somebody playing a templar should not be able to  query his soldiers. Or some NPCs might make a living  from information. Like the traders Inn begger and have set bribery fees, Say 100 coins per RL minute  for 1000 coins he might tell you who came and went for the last hour,.

Such ideas should not only reduce the number of requests on staff somewhat, but make it much easier and faster to respond if needed.

[Dusky]

X-D, that's some great ideas - new thread worthy I think.

I like the idea of "Time Stop" (used in MUSHES for other reasons, right) for staff clarification. 

But then - using it to control flow of combat would be great as well - it would make combat far more realistic but far less adrenaline pumping, I think.  It would give us more time to emote, to describe what our characters are doing - to write the story.

[Fnord]

You know what I want to see in Arm2.

Stricter rules to account notes.
Like a rule of "Please refrain from adding personal opinion unless you know the FULL context of the situation."

[rishenko]

I think Arm2 needs a freeze/suspend/pause command that works on EVERYTHING in a given area and defined from a single PC, to room, to span of rooms, to zone to world. So a staffer could type say "freeze room 10555" and EVERYTHING cept for wishes and OOC stops in that room, nothing can enter it but staff, not even an arrow or kankfly. And staff should be allowed to question actions or get clarifications at that time instead of simply reacting or forming an opinion after the fact.
Or even to be able to go "OOC Hold on a moment, I need time to make the world in the area react in a realistic manner to your actions."
And for the player to help staff on questions as well. "OOC Sure, also you might want to check my PCs bio entries #3,6,21,22 and 30."

Yes, please.  I know imms try to understand, but sometimes I know that they wonder what the fuck a char is up to.  This could help in rather sticky situations.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Going along with that, I think Arm2 needs a freeze/suspend/pause command that works on EVERYTHING in a given area and defined from a single PC, to room, to span of rooms, to zone to world. So a staffer could type say "freeze room 10555" and EVERYTHING cept for wishes and OOC stops in that room, nothing can enter it but staff, not even an arrow or kankfly. And staff should be allowed to question actions or get clarifications at that time instead of simply reacting or forming an opinion after the fact.
Or even to be able to go "OOC Hold on a moment, I need time to make the world in the area react in a realistic manner to your actions."
And for the player to help staff on questions as well. "OOC Sure, also you might want to check my PCs bio entries #3,6,21,22 and 30."

This is an excellent idea.

Also, Would it be possible to give NPCs a memory buffer, or at least some of them?
Currently if a staffer wants to see what happened someplace they have to check the room logs, which I've heard is a major pain in the ass.
Reason I think that would help is WAY TOO often when I've played leaders, on asking an NPC whos JOB is to watch an area, I get some answer like "What, you think I have time to pay attention?" When the NPCs job is to do exactly that..
Its a Door guards JOB to know EXACTLY who goes through that door, Maybe not what people are talking about around him, so, give him a memery flag that only remembers  sdesc of people coming through the door. The guard in the store room on the other hand might not remember who came and went, but would maybe know who got what from what containers. The barracks guard should remember who went to sleep, who woke up (quit/entered game)  and any fights  and such. The serving wench might have listen, and not remember who came and went, but remember things heard and emotes.  It would take a few memory flags of course to do it, and each entry would need a time stamp in RL minutes so a staffer could more easily query the memory.  So typing query npc 120-10 would get 120 minutes ago to 10 minutes ago. Then a staffer would be able to more easily and realisticly get the npc to react. Even if they only entered the game 5 minutes ago. Hell, some NPCs would have longer memories then others as well.  So being able to set it from say 100 entries to say 5000 entries.

And, its something that could also be automated for PC use as well. No reason why somebody playing a templar should not be able to  query his soldiers. Or some NPCs might make a living  from information. Like the traders Inn begger and have set bribery fees, Say 100 coins per RL minute  for 1000 coins he might tell you who came and went for the last hour,.

Such ideas should not only reduce the number of requests on staff somewhat, but make it much easier and faster to respond if needed.

I love this idea too.

[Only He Stands There]

Also, Would it be possible to give NPCs a memory buffer, or at least some of them?
Currently if a staffer wants to see what happened someplace they have to check the room logs, which I've heard is a major pain in the ass.
Reason I think that would help is WAY TOO often when I've played leaders, on asking an NPC whos JOB is to watch an area, I get some answer like "What, you think I have time to pay attention?" When the NPCs job is to do exactly that..
Its a Door guards JOB to know EXACTLY who goes through that door, Maybe not what people are talking about around him, so, give him a memery flag that only remembers  sdesc of people coming through the door. The guard in the store room on the other hand might not remember who came and went, but would maybe know who got what from what containers. The barracks guard should remember who went to sleep, who woke up (quit/entered game)  and any fights  and such. The serving wench might have listen, and not remember who came and went, but remember things heard and emotes.  It would take a few memory flags of course to do it, and each entry would need a time stamp in RL minutes so a staffer could more easily query the memory.  So typing query npc 120-10 would get 120 minutes ago to 10 minutes ago. Then a staffer would be able to more easily and realisticly get the npc to react. Even if they only entered the game 5 minutes ago. Hell, some NPCs would have longer memories then others as well.  So being able to set it from say 100 entries to say 5000 entries.

Going along with that, I'd love to be able to check your OWN scrollback, as well. Nothing's worse than losing link and logging back in 5 minutes later in a crowded tavern with everyone looking to you to react to something... if you could "query 10" and show the last five minutes of scrollback echoed to your PC, that'd be awesome.

[Dalmeth]

Also, Would it be possible to give NPCs a memory buffer, or at least some of them?

A better idea would be to make the room log easier to sort according to specific criteria.  For instance, the ability to sort out what movement commands were made within a room could help narrow down a specific time frame to examine.  Also the ability to sort out actions made by PCs of certain clans, races, or whatever denomination you choose could also be of help.

The most simplistic way of doing this would be adding tags to whatever is put in the log.  Also a good idea might be to view these logs without certain tags or tags at all for the sake of easy reading.

So, it would all come together something like this :

Code Select Expand


What your average PC in the room would see:

The blood red cendi walks north.

What is input into the log :

(18:01:23.034 :: 2301, 146, 2)The blood red cendi (cendi) (Clan:23) (PC : 1002) walks north (walk :: 2301, 147, 2)


That way you can narrow down what you're looking for by the time it occurred, where, who did it, the clan they were in, and any particular action that occurred.

[X-D]

Though that would be nice for some things Dalmeth. It gives too much information and still makes it so the staffer has to decide what the npc actually might have noticed.

Thats not the point to the idea. The point to it is to give the staff an easy to use tool with no guesswork involved. AND to possibly give PCs tools later as well so that they need bother the staff less. They are still human, the staff that is, and it is not uncommon now for information to slip that the npc should NOT have.

I'm not saying that room logs should not be easier, they should. But for a tool to be put in place so that certain npcs can be animated in a realistic fashion according to the job they might have, again, no guessing involved, no need to stat the npc and check its backround to find out if its a guard and what it watches and if it might have noticed this.

Its already there.

[Bebop]

With the current version I understand it is going down but what is with the clan imms?

Previously there were like two imms to a clan or so, I've noticed one -new- IMM running three major clans, one clan of which is actually multiple clans.  How can we fix this, or are we all just going to have to do without until the new game is up and running?  Which honestly I think most of us are anticipating at least another six months or -more- of this.

[Kalden]

Please, please, please keep the playerbase informed on the Armageddon blog. Your last entry (Gluing maps together) was a good read because you showed the RMBT is getting faster. Small and large steps alike should be noted in the blog, and seeing new updates daily or every other day would be optimal. A quick few sentences is all that's needed, really - the rest could be discussed on the GDB.

Yeah but these need to categorized (labeled with tags or whatever) for them to be useful. I want to learn about this project, but I've been away for a while. I shouldn't have to dig deep into all these forum topics to find out what the staff has proposed, and I shouldn't have to scroll through the blog to find out what the staff has said about races or specialization of characters. So tagging updates and such is good.

One thing that I would love to see is more of an openness to letting players help build the world for their character. You want to buy a house? Sure, you produce the coin, build the room (a staffer will screen it), and then RP out a scene with a Nenyuki banker, and you can have a house. You want an NPC slave? Same thing. You run a clan and you want to expand operations somewhere, or start some new business? Sure, you write the descriptions, have us screen them, and we'll work on it.

Players should be able to change the world. It will reduce staff load enormously and help create a more dynamic world. You want to burn down (or explode) a buildingr? Sure, let us know first so we can prepare, then maybe submit a draft description that a staffer can edit.

[Cerelum]

I read through the last page of this topic and am going to summarize what I feel I read.

"If I have a lot of karma, you should pay more attention to me and give me better service then you would to a newbie asking a question."

I disagree, though the people who have lots of karma tend to be the trustworthy and older players, if anything they should be more flexible with staff, having been here the longest.  At newbie who is brand new to the gritty and ruthless world of Zalanthas should be treated with the same level of respect and importance of even you dusty old people.  If anything, the newbies should be given a bit more attention then the older players to make sure that they enjoy their experience and understand what's going on around them, this way they are more apt to play and you old folks will have people to Kill/lead/mindbend/magick and all the other stuff.

[RogueGunslinger]

Wow, really grabbed that out of context, didn't you?

[mansa]

I read through the last page of this topic and am going to summarize what I feel I read.

"If I have a lot of karma, you should pay more attention to me and give me better service then you would to a newbie asking a question."

I disagree, though the people who have lots of karma tend to be the trustworthy and older players, if anything they should be more flexible with staff, having been here the longest.  At newbie who is brand new to the gritty and ruthless world of Zalanthas should be treated with the same level of respect and importance of even you dusty old people.  If anything, the newbies should be given a bit more attention then the older players to make sure that they enjoy their experience and understand what's going on around them, this way they are more apt to play and you old folks will have people to Kill/lead/mindbend/magick and all the other stuff.

I totally disagree.

Immortals should be setting up the world that we play in, and allowing the players to change the world.

Players should be the ones who teach other players what to do.  Players should be the ones who create items, rooms, npcs.  Players should be the ones that cause the world to change.  Players should be the people who take aside someone and teach them about the differences between the say and tell command.  The Players should be able to do anything.  The Players should have most of the responsibility of the game.   We are the ones that populate it.  We keep the Roleplay consistent and of high regard.  The Players should be able to help people.


Immortals should be setting up the world and fitting all the pieces that the Players have created into the correct slots of the World.


Newbies should be getting attention from older players instead of the immortals.  The older players should be able to do more things in this game if they want to.  There's some players who won't want to be an Immortal, ever, but who want to just help the new ones.   There's some players who all they want to do is group up with other players and go fight some beast in the waste, and don't want to create anything in the game.  There's some players who LOVE to create objects more than playing their own characters.

The focus of the game shouldn't be to become an Immortal - but to create a story within the game.

[LoD]

Immortals should be setting up the world that we play in, and allowing the players to change the world.

This is already done and possible in Arm 1.0, and I'm sure planned to continue in Arm 2.0.

Players should be the ones who teach other players what to do.  Players should be the ones who create items, rooms, npcs.  Players should be the ones that cause the world to change.  Players should be the people who take aside someone and teach them about the differences between the say and tell command.  The Players should be able to do anything.  The Players should have most of the responsibility of the game.   We are the ones that populate it.  We keep the Roleplay consistent and of high regard.  The Players should be able to help people.

There are parts of this I agree with, but much of which I do not.  The "Players" label encompasses far too wide and varied a group to depart so many responsibilities.  Many would have to small a view of the game world and all its components, not nearly enough to make command decisions about what, where, and when permanent structures, unique objects, and especially NPC's are brought into the game.  These things need to be carefully planned, screened, written, proofread, and implemented in a way that both makes sense ICly and sense with the rest of the community as it's been developed by the Imm Staff.

Players shouldn't be policing other players.  Players who aren't helpers shouldn't be communicating OOCly with other players on a regular basis in an attempt to "teach" them the game.  That already happens far too frequently and is largely responsible for much of the lack of "mystery" in the current game.  Players should be allowed a degree of responsibility related to the depth and effort of their character; players should expect to put in some time and overcome some obstacles to realize goals that introduce permanent or semi-permanent changes to the game.

Players can already help people by being helpers outside of the game, and helping OOCly where appropriate inside of the game.  We can already create semi-permanent and permanent changes to the game world.  We already have a good deal of power if we choose to pursue it.  It just isn't all hard coded and easy.  And I really don't think that it should be.  I know some people want to be able to do more than they currently can -- to build a structure somewhere in the city, to write up an object in game and quickly have it implemented, to submit NPC's for their clans or characters -- but all of this takes work not only to approve, edit, and create, but to ensure that the submissions are appropriate for the PC, the NPC's, and the VNPC's that inhabit that area.  There is work required to appropriately display the construction phases of the building and/or items dependent upon their size and complexity.

And any of us know how fast special app objects got approved when we played merchant characters, even after we wrote the desc and sdesc ourselves.  It got to the point where there were so many submissions, they had to stop special item orders for all but a previous few master craftsmen who were given a limit of one every RL month.

I agree that the Players need to have more say in how the world develops from a game play aspect.  Clans should be easy to form, they should have automated code that allow them to function with minimal Immortal support to address needs of real estate, guards, stores, warehouses, wagons, etc...but I believe the facilities should largely be designed and provided by the Imms rather than designed and created by the players, so that the space is used correctly and appropriately.  The Imms have already mentioned that players will be playing a larger role in the day-to-day plot developments and story lines in Armageddon 2.0. 

I AM for the hard coded ability to create temporary structures such as tents, trenches, holes, lean-to's, crude shacks, barricades, and makeshift portals (e.g. doors) that can both constructed and destroyed fairly easily and don't greatly affect the flow of game play for VNPC's, NPC's, and PC's through a particular room or area.  But I'd rather leave the implementation, construction, and introduction of large semi-permanent and permanent structure changes to the Imms which results in a fairly consistent and dependable environment for new and old players alike.

-LoD