Closing Parts of the Game

[LauraMars]

Mansa recently wrote a post in Ask the Staff, suggesting some things, not all of which I need or want to talk about.

I just mainly want to bring up his suggestion that certain parts of the game be closed.  That's an interesting suggestion to me, but honestly, I couldn't think of what area I'd close to the players.  Without Tuluk, what will Allanak spy on?  Without Allanak, what will Tuluk write mean songs about?  Without Luirs, where does Kurac go?  Without Red Storm...well, maybe we could close down Red Storm.

Anyway, if you could close down a section/area/city in the game so that there would be more players in other parts of the world, would you? And which part would it be?  And why?

Discuss.

Just one rule -

No-one is allowed to turn thread into Allanak vs Tuluk argument.

[Folker]

I do believe a portion of this is already going on. Not closing down per se, but a unification of a sort. I am guessing it's much more complicated now to be part of a clan that is 'completely' seperated from the rest of the community. Probably not impossible, but takes some effort to do. But ofcourse ... the details are as always IC. To be honest, I'm kind of curious how this thread will be discussed, without someone stumbling into a version of a plot that's already in progress, or is nearby it.




eq. All Borsails are wiped out by "I hate borsail" Whiran sikrit clan. =).

[Candy Quackenbush]

I don't think closing down an area like Red Storm would be very useful because if nobody can go there then they still have a gazillion others rooms in the desert to explore. I only see shutting down certain clans as useful for consolidation. But then we have to ask if it's fair to shut any clans down. I sort of like knowing that I have the chance to try out a halfling, a desert elf, a Guilder, and so on before it all goes up in smoke. So I guess I'd rather see attempts to keep the playerbase of the future Arm consolidated and not overly spread out than doing that here since it won't matter for much longer anyway.

[LauraMars]

Yeah, I really can't think of any clans I'd shut down...all the merchant houses are looking awesome, the desert elves are reported to be exciting, rinth likewise...we just closed down that mage clan, but I don't think that decreased the gemmer population a huge amount.  

And Tuluk doesn't have a lot of clans.  Sun Legions, and Tuluki Nobles is about it.  Tuluk's been pretty stagnant every time I've played there in the past six months, but closing the city might hurt endgame plots.

Maybe if the Byn was closed.  *ducks behind a table*

[ale six]

A couple clans have already been shut down or allowed to become inactive in Allanak lately... Borsail, Atrium, Oash, and CAM, that I know of. Not sure what the eastside rinther clans are like lately either.

And I think that the affect of the closings has been noticeable. You can really tell there aren't as many clans operating as there used to be. On the other hand, it does give what clans are left more chances to flourish and become a little more active and noticed, so maybe it's not all bad.

Really, I completely disagree with this notion we should just give up on the game and shut it down. It's silly.

[Candy Quackenbush]

Wow I didn't realize how many clans have closed already.

I think the Byn is like the staple food of Arm though, it's part of the bare essentials. I could see them getting a lot of use in the remaining days ahead so why close them of all clans down?

If there are no PCs in a given clan now's a great time to shut that one down. But I don't know of any clans which are entirely empty. Quite the contrary in fact!

It's the same old argument though. Which clans could be shut down to consolidate the playerbase? Before the MUD was planned to be built anew people were talking about lopping off a few clans, and that's when more people were playing. At this point, will downsizing really matter anyway? On the occasions when I can't find a soul in both Tuluk and Allanak I have to wonder if shutting down all but 2 clans even would really make a difference.

[Bebop]

The game is going down soon anyway, I don't see what can really be accomplished at this point by any clan only the IMMs knwo that and will ultimately know how the clans are going to be involved.  Currently we really don't have enough regular players to sustain every level of teh game anymore at least I don't think.  As well, alot of the people in Tuluk ending up being nobles with no underlings to manage.  I definitely don't think whole cities should be closed but I could see for instance seeing some of the clans therein closed.  But part of me thinks at this point might as well just leave things how they are.

[Marauder Moe]

Final exams!  Graduation!  Moving out of dorms/apartment!  Summer vacation!

Population isn't low because the game is closing, people.  Not only that, but Mansa is just plain wrong about 30 people peaks.  Yes, maybe sometimes it gets to 30 people during peak hours, but it peaks at 40-50 still.  Actually I think Mansa is wrong about a lot of things in his thread (though admitedly, not everything).

I, for one, am still having fun.

[Ghost]

I think closing down the parts of the game would solve the problem of spread playerbase, but unfortunately, applying it now to make an effect is nearly impossible.

I think playerbase is concentrated mainly in D-elves, Allanak, and Rinth.  Tuluk, from the way people post about it in GDB, seem to have relatively lower PCs, maybe that is wrong.  Anyway...

The thing is, all of these four major PC centers have something important for the longterm to do.  Closing down any of them will have much more of a negative effect on the game, than just the innocent idea of moving players to somewhere else.

Also, closing a fraction of the game and forcing the players in that area to store their PCs is not really a good solution, because some of those players will rather choose not to make another character till Arm2.  I, for one, am playing my final character in the game for example.

All in all, closing the game entirely and running a beta testers is a better idea than closing parts of the game to me.

[Vanth]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26295

Those are the recent official closings.

[Marauder Moe]

That's depressing.

[Janna]

Closing this game until the new one opens is just plain wrong. I love this game, I've played it nearly every single day before and after the anouncement came. Nothing changed, its still a great game. The new one will also be just as great.

I really dislike that a bunch of people just picked up and walked off because of the change, but, what can you do ..their choice (see you when you come back) Numbers are also a little low based on what was already mentioned so far in the thread. Summer vacations and such but we still do hit 40 to 50 players at peak.

Honestly, everyone who has been complaining and screaming about lack of plots or lack of action and so on..well..make your own.  :shock: It is possible. Tuluk and Allanak are both very much alive and well from all the plots I've personally seen going with my very basic, mundane PC. Furthermore, without any IC info, if even a third of what I've been getting into IG happens. Holy shit the end is going to -ROCK-.

To end my little run on and actually get back to the point of the thread (Sorry Laura  :oops: ) If I absolutely -had- to close something, I'd likely close the Halflings and Desert tribes. My reason would be that I think the most action for the end will take place within the major cities at the end, and we could really use those PC's to make it even bigger.

[mansa]

I would remove Luir's Outpost and Red Storm as starting areas.

I would shut down the Bard's Circle as an active clan.  People can be a Bard, but not expect any immortal support.

I would close the Tan Muark, but keep Tan Muark PCs if they want.  Same with the other Tribal Humans.  I'd just rather them be in the cities, than in their hometowns / tents.  Again, no immortal support, just that your background - you belong to this tribe.

I would keep the 3 merchant houses open, but I would force the Kurac players to work out of the cities, rather than out of Luir's Outpost.

I would keep 2 nobles in Tuluk.

I would update this page with what's closed and not:
http://www.armageddon.org/ic/

This leaves open:
Desert Elves and their tribes
T'zai Byn
The Guild
Tor - Fale - Arm of Dragon
2 Tuluk Nobles - Tuluk Army
Kadius, Salarr, Kurac

People can come and go to Luir's Outpost and to Red Storm, but the focus wouldn't be to stay there.

[Nao]

I would close the Tan Muark, but keep Tan Muark PCs if they want.  Same with the other Tribal Humans.  I'd just rather them be in the cities, than in their hometowns / tents.  Again, no immortal support, just that your background - you belong to this tribe.
.

Except for the Tan Muark PCs that have been around for ages, everyone should be spending most of their time in the cities and only go back to their lands on occasion.

[Gimfalisette]

I would shut down the Bard's Circle as an active clan.  People can be a Bard, but not expect any immortal support.

Bards of the Circle already, currently, don't get any imm support. There's no reason to close the clan to lighten a workload that doesn't exist. It's just not an option, in Tuluk, to say someone can "play a bard" but not be of the Circle; it's just...not. Bards of the Circle are integral to political play in Tuluk, they are a huge part of what makes Tuluk itself, and they are also important to the interplay between the cities.

Your other suggestions I can't say I disagree with, though I know for fact that there have not been anywhere close to 6 PC nobles (as there were supposed to be) in Tuluk in months. Generally there have been 2 to 3 active, so that part of your schema is really already done.

If Tuluk didn't have a significant part to play in the end-times plot, then I would say, with great sadness, "close Tuluk." (Yes, as much as I am the biggest Tuluk rah-rah on this board, that is what I would say.) But Tuluk, from what I've seen, is necessary to the end-times plot, and thus it needs some PCs in it. Likewise Allanak, the 'rinth, and the desert elves are involved in the end-times plot. Can't close Luir's, because of Kurac, unless as mansa suggests the PCs are just moved to operate completely out of Tuluk and Allanak...which I think is a good suggestion. Can't close the Byn (Laura was just joking about that), because the Byn is the #1 place for newbies to go, and thus it's essential to the newb-friendliness of the game.

[Cale_Knight]

Geez, it seems like 'nak is being prepped to be shut down entirely.

That makes Cale a sad panda.

[mansa]

Can't close the Byn (Laura was just joking about that), because the Byn is the #1 place for newbies to go, and thus it's essential to the newb-friendliness of the game.

The Byn is the most fun clan in the game...

[Vanth]

Allanak is not being prepped to be closed down.  Both cities have an equal number of nobles and templars, and will continue to, for the foreseeable future, with the usual give or take for turnover.

[Jherlen]

I can understand closing clans that have died off due to PC/staff attrition (as seemed to be the case with Oash and Borsail), but why do we want to shut down entire areas of the game? That seems silly to me.

There is room for any PC in any clan in any area of the game to get involved in plots, just as there always has been. We don't need to close anything up or force PCs to only go certain places.

[mansa]

When I mean shut down, I don't mean close and lock the gates and prevent pcs from visiting.

I mean more like preventing pcs from staying in those areas as their sole enjoyment of the game.  Much like how Cenyr is right now.


And, Jherlen, I strongly disagree with your last statement.  You cannot play a noble character when you have nobody to boss around.  You can't get any plotting when there is nobody to interact with.  You can't go hunting and you can't go slumming, because of your social status and the reaction to the world that would happen when  you show up in the guild bar.  That's why we play the game - to have a realistic role.  That's why we gain karma - to play the role within it's own rights and within the context of the world.

Therefore, you need players in the game to have social status.  You need players in the game to make the game the game.  You can't just have one templar in one city, with no thieves, with 2 kadian merchants and one hunter, and a magicker.  That's not an adventure.  That's not fun.

[Malken]

I think that one of the main problem we are currently seeing is that there might be too many "leadership" roles being offered and not enough people to be hired by said leaders.

I see a lot of good leaders who are desperate for hunters, warriors, aides, etc.. But there isn't that many to play them lately.

So I think what happens is that you have many great leaders who can't find anyone to serve under them, they either get bored (which leads to them dying because at some point they have no choices but to do what needs to be done themselves), retire or log less, so then that role is gone and being offered again, someone take it, then the same problem happens..

I don't really know what the solution is right now, even if you offer someone a thousand 'sids a month to work for you, chances are that they prefer to be on their own or they already work for the well-established character, because at this point it's not a matter of money anymore. (Again, that's from a Tuluk point of view).

Saying that there is room for any PC in any clan is true, but the problem it causes is that you have dozen of clans with one or two PCs in them instead of half a dozen clans with half a dozen PCs in them.

It's also probably much easier for the admins to "involve" a half dozen clans with half a dozen PCs in them in the major plots than it is for them to involve a dozen clans with just one or two PCs in each, no?

[Forest Junkie]

Remove the option to special app. Problem solved.

[V1agraKank]

Certainly I could entertain the idea of closing parts of the game if I thought it would have the effect of concentrating the playerbase.  Logic and common sense seem to indicate that it would have this effect.

However I believe that the net result would be a lower concentration of players, because I think plenty of people would leave if we started shutting the game down.  

My belief is that more space = more players.
Less space = less players.

[Delirium]

Remove the option to special app. Problem solved.

[Yokunama]

Can't close the Byn (Laura was just joking about that), because the Byn is the #1 place for newbies to go, and thus it's essential to the newb-friendliness of the game.

The Byn is the most fun clan in the game...

Agree.