Unrealistic Rp that results in pc death/storage.

[sarahjc]

This thread has had the run of it. I'm not sure anyone is going to change the original poster's mind.

I will just say that whenever I see a person knocked out somewhere, I am taking your boots. If you have lost your shoes to being passed out in an IC circumstance, you can go and buy them back at the Kadians. Be it north or south, it was me.. I took your boots and sold them to kadius for 5 sid.. Even when someone strips you blind, I pop in for the briefest of seconds, just to take your shoes.

But Seriously, some folks just don't like to play the down trotted. Some folks in real life –are- the down trotted, so when someone beats them near death in game, and steals all their shit, they feel like they do not want to play that character. It's their call.. Meh..

I think many of us feel like they are missing out on some cool RP by suicide or retiring, but that is because we have a love for struggle and all things harsh and desert world. I think when people start this game, they don't quite get it. That the great Rp is what winning this game is all about. Not what kind of stuff you have,.stuff doesn't equal playability.  

Loosing all your stuff is just a new opportunity for some interesting RP. And once this guy starts to take a turn for the RP intensive.. and he will.. we all have.. he will realize that there is more to a character than what he wears.

[Elfmolester]

It's not about the "stuff" it was never about the stuff. It's about having people that, I don't believe, were acting very in character unless they were all playing characters that were exceptions to your typical Tuluki. Instead of displaying any subtlety whatsoever, they were very "in your face" about the whole thing. And yes, I don't get any particular enjoyment out of playing beggars, 'rinthi in general, etc. I prefer to play more of the average Joe type than the guy licking even Joe's boots for a scrap of food.
It's just not the sort of rp that I enjoy. I don't think that it's right for people to be telling me that because the grief part is their favorite part of the game that I must be a newbie or not understand the game if I don't like that being forced upon me by a group of others who were acting more the exception to the documentation than the rule.
I have no interest in playing the guy who begs/steals/becomes beholden to anyone/sucks cock/takes it in the ass/etc to survive. No, that is not "what Arm is all about", you can have struggle without it being complete grief. If that's what some of you like, that's fine, but there are many sorts of different roles for different people and being forced into playing such a role still really sucks for those of us who do not enjoy them. I'd suicide/retire the character if some pc templar walked up to me and said: "You're gonna have a shitload of stuff, money, etc because I'm making you a noble now (to serve my own twisted purposes of course)", because that is not what I intended to play.
I know that would never happen but does that help to get my point across without everyone berating me because I don't enjoy the complete downandout grief part of the game at all?

[Marauder Moe]

Hah!  I've had many fantasies about getting swept up in a plot where an Oash Lord bets a Borsail Lord that he can't take a dirty dirty commoner and turn him into a plausible noble in the space of a year, or that Lord Fancypant's assassination would be a major public blow to a noble house's image, but luckily no one has heard about the new yet and micarculously you bear a striking resemblance to the deceased noble...

But anyway, you're not being berated because you don't like playing out setbacks.  You're being berated because you innapropriately rebuked your attackers on an OOC forum.  You're being berated because you seem to think rules of the game were violated in your case, but they weren't.  You're being berated because you think that you have the right to completely avoid aspects of the game that you don't like to play, which for the most part you don't.

The people extoling the virtues of roleplaying extreme poverty aren't being vindictive, though.  They're trying to help you see the positive side of such a situation in the hopes that maybe you'll learn to enjoy them too.

No one is demanding that you like it, but such things are undeniably a part of the game and sometimes you can't avoid it.  That's not going to change either.  There won't ever be an ">OOC Consent to thievery?" rule.

[rishenko]

Because I'm the general Armageddon fuckup who has beautiful streaks of bad luck, I've been mugged numerous times, left for dead and generally gang raped by Whira's fingers of fate.

Shit happens.  It sucks, it pisses you off and makes you want to explode your computer monitor with a massive fucking sledgehammer.  But you know what?  If you can make a comeback...if you can pull it back together and regain all that you had, that's a personal sign that you are a badass.  It's an accomplishment.  You fucking fought against all the odds and climbed your scarred ass back on top of the mountain and shouted, "FUCK YOU, I'M STILL ALIVE!"  Trust me, it's a wonderful feeling once you get there.  Unfortunately the road leading to it is hard, tedious and shitty.  Especially if you get backdoored all over again halfway through your journey.

In the end it's worth it.  Don't give up.  If you like the char and were having fun with them, push on, persevere, kick some ass.

[spawnloser]

Just to clarify on some things...

It is very likely that stripping someone naked is unrealistic.  A thief stripping someone naked is conspicuous.  It should not be possible to do this unnoticed and being noticed and known as a thief is not good.  People are more likely to be friends with or hire a murderer than a thief.  Granted, this sounds more like a mugging (I didn't reread the whole thread and don't remember the initial situation) and muggers aren't quite the same.  Still, why strip someone naked?  To you really want to see that guy's wang?  Do you really want to spend so much time standing over your victim for everyone to see?

Berating someone for saying that s/he would retire a character for being stripped of all worldly possessions is silly.  Seriously, just about everyone has retired a character.  You know why those characters were stored?  The player didn't enjoy playing the character any longer.  Every player has a right to store a character when the character ceases to be fun to that player.  Sure, it could be fun for some of us to try to recover from that, but some people will not find that fun.  It does NOT mean that someone is a bad roleplayer because they don't find it fun.  A good roleplayer or a bad roleplayer could both find it fun or both find it not.  Someone's preferences do NOT a good or bad roleplayer make.  How they roleplay no matter their preferences is what decides that.

I think the OP is overreacting a bit, but I do sympathize.  I also think that some of the veiled suggestions that the OP is a poor roleplayer or 'doesn't quite get it' are uncalled for.

[Rindan]

It's not about the "stuff" it was never about the stuff. It's about having people that, I don't believe, were acting very in character unless they were all playing characters that were exceptions to your typical Tuluki. Instead of displaying any subtlety whatsoever, they were very "in your face" about the whole thing. And yes, I don't get any particular enjoyment out of playing beggars, 'rinthi in general, etc. I prefer to play more of the average Joe type than the guy licking even Joe's boots for a scrap of food.

I don't know the characters in question, but it is pretty hard to sit back and judge if they were supposed to be more sneaky or not.  Just because Tuluki folks in general value subtlety doesn't mean that everyone in Tuluk is a plotter above getting pissed off and beating the shit out someone and taking their clothes.  Even in the most refined societies you have thugs and ass holes with the subtly of a sledge hammer.  More to the point, if they did it and didn't get caught by a Templar, they WERE subtle.  Well, not from your perspective of course.  Think about it.  You beat someone up in an alleyway and take his clothes.  That person can certainly go turn you in to the Templars... but he would first have to walk up naked to a Templar and confess he just got beaten up and humiliated.  If the person you attacked is to humiliated to come forward, they just pulled of something as subtle as an assassins blade.

It's just not the sort of rp that I enjoy. I don't think that it's right for people to be telling me that because the grief part is their favorite part of the game that I must be a newbie or not understand the game if I don't like that being forced upon me by a group of others who were acting more the exception to the documentation than the rule.

Stuff is going to get forced on you in Armageddon.  Seriously, it is going to happen again and again.  I have been playing this game for years and I have had warrior mercenaries of d00m that could eat a Silt Horror with their bare hands have things forced on him.  There is always a bigger fish.  It doesn't matter if you are a 'rinth rat or a Templar, or a senior noble, there is a bigger fish that can eat you at any time.  People are going to decide to do mean things to you and ruin your life more then once.

Now, that isn't to say that you have to like it, but that isn't going to stop it from happening again.  Most people play this game because, unlike almost every other game out there, you can lose.  You lose big time.  In fact, you  always lose in the end.  Losing is what makes winning (temporarily... always temporarily) so damn fun.  It also makes the game thrilling and challenging in a way that World of Warcraft will never achieve.  I am telling you that as much as you might hate to lose, it is a fundamental part of the game that will never go away.

I have no interest in playing the guy who begs/steals/becomes beholden to anyone/sucks cock/takes it in the ass/etc to survive. No, that is not "what Arm is all about", you can have struggle without it being complete grief. If that's what some of you like, that's fine, but there are many sorts of different roles for different people and being forced into playing such a role still really sucks for those of us who do not enjoy them. I'd suicide/retire the character if some pc templar walked up to me and said: "You're gonna have a shitload of stuff, money, etc because I'm making you a noble now (to serve my own twisted purposes of course)", because that is not what I intended to play.

If you really don't like playing that sort of role, don't play it.  As you already know, you can always suicide a character.  That said, people are not going to stop doing it.  People are not going to OOCly ask if it is okay to beat you up before they do it.  Getting screwed is part of what Armageddon is about, but we all play here of our own free will and so can decide when that happens to opt out and start over.

I know that would never happen but does that help to get my point across without everyone berating me because I don't enjoy the complete downandout grief part of the game at all?

The are two reasons why people "berated".

First, you stated in your original post that is was totally unrealistic for people pissed off at you to beat you up and take everything that you owned.  You then went on to state that if they are going to do that, they should at least offer some way of getting your stuff back.  People berated you for this because it isn't unrealistic as you claim, and there absolutely is no requirement that you be given a way out or a way to get your stuff back.  No one is under any obligation to be nice.  You might hate that people act like that, but some of us love it.  That is a part of the game.  You can always suicide if you don't like (as you did).  Other people will happily role with the punches.

Second, people were trying to show you that it isn't so bad and that good things can come from a little adversity.  They were not saying this to make you feel bad, but to maybe get you to roll with it the next time it happens.  A lot of people, myself included, have faced similar challenges and found that struggling through was immensely rewarding.  Hell my all time favorite character was looted from twice, was banished from three major centers of civilization (at different times), rose to heights glory twice, and crashed from the heights of glory twice.  What made the character fun was the deep history.  This wasn't some World of Warcraft character that woke up every morning knowing that he would be better off then when he started.  This guy had history.  He had good times and bad times.  Clawing back from the bad times is part of what made him awesome.  I am not saying you have to agree, just that people are trying to impart on you that there is (for many people) virtue to be found in getting knocked back to square 1 and clawing your way back up.  Again, you don't have to agree, but people just want to show you that there are other perspectives.

So, yeah, I understand you think it sucks when other characters get the upper hand and beat your character into a bad spot.  I understand and sympathize.  I personally don't find it offensive when it happens to me, but I understand how it could bother you.  That said, this really and truly is apart of the game.  It will probably happen again.  It doesn't matter if you are a 'rinth rat, merchant, mercenary, or even Red Robed Templar.  There is someone above you who might one day decide to step on you.  You can either roll with the punches or suicide.  In the future, maybe you should try and see how rolling with the punches works?

[Twilight]

that is not what I intended to play

Get ready to almost never play what you, the player, actually intended to play, for any character that is alive an appreciable amount of time.  Unlike other games, you, the player, only have a limited amount of influence over what happens to your character.  To do otherwise is to stop treating the character as a character, with its own desires (which may have started as what you the player set), influeces, and history (some IC, some backstory).  If it is the player, rather than the character, making IC decisions, that is the very essence of falling out of RP as it is defined here.

This is a subtle, yet distinctive element of Arm roleplay.

[Xio]

Personally, I am in LOVE with getting my arse handed to me, sometimes literally, and starting at square 1. Unfortunately for myself, all my characters thus far have gotten themselves killed before they could start the climb back up, due to their rather.....unsavory attitudes. Anyway, when you look at it in its barest form, the initial climb and the 'second' climb are in essence the same thing, though the second can tend to be easier depending on the character's role and such.

[sarahjc]

Rindan is right, it's not that you suck because you don't want to play a "down on his Luck" PC. It's just that if given it happened again, which most likely it will at some point, you might want to try and roll with it. Obviously what happened to you, has happened to a lot of us. We all simpathize, it sucks.. But, comming back from that.. Is Sooooo rewarding. And who knows, you might come back so strong that you can one day steal all the shit from the guy who stole it from you.    But, you'll never know what can happen, unless you just stick with it.

It is the nature of the game. Also why most people are not hammering down on the guys who took all your stuff is because we know it happens. I personally would leave you with a pair of pants and a shirt on. But other than that.. I'm gonna take every little bit of valued merchandise on you, and your boots, just cause it's me.. and I find it humors to have people walk around on hot sand without shoes.

This game is a very (excuse the cheesy catch phrase) Dog eat dog kind of world. People will screw you over at every opportunity, and unless they trust you, they don't care about your PC, or what happens to it. Raiders, which I am assuming is what got you, especially don't care.  

Also, think about it, would you have felt any better if they had just left you with a shirt, pants and shoes?  You would still have to beg, and still have to struggle to get back, you would just not be sunburned and naked when you walked into the city.

So there you have it. Can you sucide when you get robbed down to your skivies? Sure. Is it bad RP to suicide or retire after, I dunno, But People Suicide for bad stats too..So Meh. Is it bad Rp to get robbed clean.. Maybe. Do people do it all the time, Yes.  I'd say that depends on the whys and hows, which are too IC for this discussion as the various edits have proven, to say if your guy was just unlucky or the Victim of twinkish behavior. That's for the staff to look at.

So, good luck with the next one.. I hope he runs a better lot with luck.

[Rhyden]

Maybe I'm just weird...

But I LOVE being knocked out/stripped naked/tossed in the middle of the desert with nothing but a loincloth (yes, you know who you are).

Being rock bottom and having to struggle hard to get back on your feet is just totally awesome for me.

[Lizzie]

I read the posts written before they were edited to remove IC info.

It sounds, like the entire thing was completely IC, true to the personalities of the characters, and that one party "got his due" as a result of their own actions. One party did something to really annoy another party, and as a result, that party found himself beaten up and buck naked with not a single sid to his name.

It sounds like a very Zalanthan situation to me, and I don't understand why anyone would make a fuss about it.

If you "stand up for yourself" to someone with more clout than you, expect to get beaten to a pulp and stuck in the middle of somewhere, buck naked, without two sids to rub together.

Or, stash all your sids in the bank, so that next time you decide to "stand up for yourself" and get stripped naked, you have sids to buy some more stuff and aren't naked anymore.

If you want your character to be a brave, arrogant, brute of a guy, be sure you can back it up. If you can't, then you have no reason to blame someone else when your character is put in his place.

That's how I see it, anyway.

L. Stanson

[Elfmolester]

Maybe for Allanak, Red Storm, Luir's Outpost. But not for Tuluk, the whole situation was handled in a very unTuluki fashion. I fully expected something to come about from it...in a more typical "Tuluki" way than it was handled.
Not beaten down in the streets like an elf surrounded by drunken Bynners in Allanak. These were not Bynners mind you...they were the last folks in the world you would expect to bust out with open in-your-face- sort of attacks and I personally feel there should have been some consequences for their actions that were befitting those acting like "southron thugs". It was about as unexpected and out of the norm as seeing a kank riding elf, a rocket scientist half-giant, or a noble trapsing about the 'rinth in my opinion.

[Gimfalisette]

How do you know there were no consequences?

And are you sure you are the ultimate arbiter of Tuluki culture?

[Agent_137]

[James de Monet]

You didn't expect it.  That says that a lot of people aren't doing this in Tuluk.  How do you know these people aren't the exception that proves the rule?

Besides, it could have been worse.  If you really, really want to punish someone, knock them out, strip them naked, then drop all their stuff in the room where they are with dropdescs like "lies here torn to shreds" or "is half-buried in the sand, snapped into pieces".  Then, they get to wake up and find that nothing is missing, just ICly ruined.  Then they get to choose between all their hard-earned stuff, and their integrity as an RPer.   :twisted:   Anybody who's hardcore enough for this game will pick up all their lovely things and junk them themselves.  That's pure Arm awesomesauce right there.

[jhunter]

You didn't expect it.  That says that a lot of people aren't doing this in Tuluk.  How do you know these people aren't the exception that proves the rule?

Besides, it could have been worse.  If you really, really want to punish someone, knock them out, strip them naked, then drop all their stuff in the room where they are with dropdescs like "lies here torn to shreds" or "is half-buried in the sand, snapped into pieces".  Then, they get to wake up and find that nothing is missing, just ICly ruined.  Then they get to choose between all their hard-earned stuff, and their integrity as an RPer.   :twisted:   Anybody who's hardcore enough for this game will pick up all their lovely things and junk them themselves.  That's pure Arm awesomesauce right there.

Pssshhh...wuss. I'd cut off their hands, cauterize the wounds with a torch and leave them to figure out how to live. :twisted:

[Rindan]

I fully expected something to come about from it...in a more typical "Tuluki" way than it was handled.

Tuluki are not against violence.  They are not against killing or humiliation.  They just do it in back corners and alleyways.  A bar fight in public would be considered crude, but beating someone up in a back alleyway as a lesson is perfectly acceptable.  It isn't that Tuluki only use mean words against each other, it is that they keep their violence and feuding out of the public eye or use proxies to do it in the public eye.

However, let us assume that what happened was totally inappropriate for a Tuluki to do.  I would argue that they can be just as thuggish as any Allanaki, but lets run with the assumption that this was a big faux pas for a Tuluki to do.  How do you expect their to be IC consequences for them if the victim (you) suicides?  You could have found a Templar and tried to get the Templar to deal with them.  You could have found a bard to embarrass them with their thuggish Allanaki like ways.  You could have found their patron or employer and embarrassed them with a story of how crass they are.  Hell, you could have found a patron or employer who hates their patron or employer and worked together to bring about some retribution or public ridicule.

Instead, you suicided.  That means that as far as everyone else is concerned, what happened was that you gave some people a reason to be pissed off and then you were never seen from again.  That is about as Tuluki as it gets.  People vanish in Tuluk all the time.  A group that can make someone vanish just racks up more respect, and buy suiciding you play into that.

[Adhira]

It's been said before:

If you feel you have a geniune complaint then please use the request board and speak to the staff about it.

If you think a character in game has been mean to you - they probably were. Live with it.