Unrealistic Rp that results in pc death/storage.

[Elfmolester]

Rp gripe: I just love how people seem to think that stealing from someone means they have to strip them completely of everything so that they no longer have anything to use to survive even. Unless you want to be a beggar it's a death sentence. It really pisses me off. I can't even count the number of times this has happened that I've either been the victim of or seen the aftermath.
I don't mind getting stolen from, not at all. But if you're going to steal from someone, at least steal from them realistically and in such a way that they can recover from it to be stolen from again. When you strip someone completely you pretty much guarantee that they will not be around to interact with again.
If I wanted to play a beggar, I'd have apped one in the first place.

[Spud]

Yeah, it's a problem. Letting the imms know with a log, if possible, is your best bet to have it solved.

[Manhattan]

Heh, trust me bud, I've been there...  about ten times in total.
And I've picked myself back up every time.

How?

Perserverance.

Your PC's not dead, pal.

(And you don't have to be a beggar to do it.)

[Elfmolester]

Oh it's dead already. I had no intentions of continuing to play it once I was stripped of everything. I never do. That's not enjoyable to be struggling to come back from unable to survive to a point where I can barely survive again. I do not enjoy it whatsoever. Especially when it was caused but the unrealistic actions of others. It instantly ruined the character for me to wake up competely naked, what's funny is that my pc was stripped down by pcs that, in my opinion, should have no reason to rob anyone.

Wake up, no food, no water, no money, no clothes, weapons, or anything else. The only option left is to beg if you're not capable of stealing. I see no other alternative nor do I care to look for it under the circumstances. Realistically, my pc shouldn't have found themselves completely naked anyway. Stripping someone completely naked smacks of H&S gaming.

[Manhattan]

I don't know what to say other then "don't become discouraged."
Trust me on this.

I have been in your exact same shoes.

And struggling is always the most fun in Armageddon.
When you have no possession, nothing but the will to live, at what ends will you go to ensure your survival?  You've nothing to lose!
This is when RP in the game is essentially SWEETEST.

You're quite -lucky- actually, if I should say so myself.

Trust me, friend, the game is about struggles.  
Strugles, are the fruit of life.

Take these words at heart. I beseech you!

[Elfmolester]

No thanks, I'm not a griefer. Suffering does not get me off. I was struggling to survive to begin with. That's about as low and harsh as I'm willing to play through. Scraping back from absolutely nothing again with a character I just started is something I have no intentions of ever doing. Had I played it for a while...maybe, then it'd be more worthwhile to try and struggle through it with a character that I've become attached to. With a pc that was less than a day old? Fuck that, I'll just make a new one if I have to start over anyway.

[Caitrin]

Edited to remove IC info.

[Manhattan]

That is the wrong mentality, friend.
That's all I have to say.

But, best of luck to your new PC though.  Honestly.  

[Elfmolester]

Removed by poster.

[Fnord]

Hrm, I've always enjoyed being left alive with nothing. It's fun to come back and get revenge. A few characters back my dude was naked having to go bar to bar and eat scraps off the tables. Now that was Zalanthas.

[Gimfalisette]

Remember, kids, Tuluk is the fluffy, easy, silky town! Nothing bad ever happens to anyone in Tuluk! It doesn't matter who you piss off, you can get away with anything in Tuluk! Now let's go, we're late for our tree-hugging field trip!

[Ghost]

Molester dude, I think you should not judge folks and especially not on GDB.

What I can suggest is, both parties should send their logs to the imms that are involved in this scenario, or to the clan.  And the rest is out of your hands.

We can discuss stripping off someone completely though, but it should not be going over the particular example.

[Halaster]

I'd just like to add that stripping someone completely of everything doesn't necessarily mean bad roleplaying.  In Zalanthas, I could sell your pants for a couple of 'sid.  In world where most people don't have very much, every little thing has some value.  If I were playing a mugger type who was low on money and really needed it, I would have no problem stripping someone of every last thing so that I can turn around and sell it.

I can also envision a situation where someone wants to humiliate you and therefore strips you naked for that very purpose.

I'm not defending their roleplaying, I have no idea as I didn't see it.  Just pointing out that stripping you naked is not necessarily "bad" roleplaying.

[Maso]

I think we should just all chill out, smoke some spice and as Gim said...go hug some trees.

Peace.

[Marauder Moe]

I've always wanted to have a character get stripped naked with nothing left in the bank.  Someday I plan to make a new PC, dump all my starting coins and gear, and see if I can pull off a recovery.  Even better if said character doesn't have reputable skills, like an assassin or a non-self-sustaining magicker.  If I fail, well, then I get to see what starving to death is like.  Might be extra-fun if I get to do it in a crowded tavern.

[Maso]

I've totally been there myself. And it was a bit shocking...but it wasn't the end of the world. Not entirely sure how I pulled through as it was a while ago and not particularly memorable, but I managed it. However -naked- is a bit embarrassing and some kind/disgusted soul would be bound to throw you a cloak.

However, I totally understand those times when you just cannot be arsed. When something just gets to you that much then sometimes it's just nicer to get a fresh start.

Try Allanak instead. Apparently their horrible down there, which probably means what they really do is hug...uhm...stone...all day.

[Elfmolester]

I'd just like to add that stripping someone completely of everything doesn't necessarily mean bad roleplaying.  In Zalanthas, I could sell your pants for a couple of 'sid.  In world where most people don't have very much, every little thing has some value.  If I were playing a mugger type who was low on money and really needed it, I would have no problem stripping someone of every last thing so that I can turn around and sell it.

I can also envision a situation where someone wants to humiliate you and therefore strips you naked for that very purpose.

I'm not defending their roleplaying, I have no idea as I didn't see it.  Just pointing out that stripping you naked is not necessarily "bad" roleplaying.

I have no problem with either. But the first one, wasn't the case and in the second...if you're intentions were just to strip the character naked to humiliate them why did you take -everything-? Realistically, you would've just taken off their clothes.

[Ghost]

Might be extra-fun if I get to do it in a crowded tavern.

Did that.  They kick you out.

Bitches.

But yes, there is always something to do, far as I know.  500 sids say I can rebuild a character from nothing in 2 days, if anyone is up to bet.

On the subject of stripping off, it may be discouraging if you have long term plans.  Because it is such a change of fate, that while you get some new opportunities, you may lose some you wanted to have in the first place.

But this has nothing to do with the thief or thug's doing.  The thief/thug does not have to care about you, so there is pretty much nothing to do.  And letting them go so you can steal from them again is an option -only- if you are a full time thief/thug, not a part time one and even in that case, if you have a grudge on the guy or if you think you won't see him again, taking what you can at that instance may be a better option.

I almost always leave clothes and weapons and water on the victim.  But that does not mean I have to do so, or I feel compelled to do so.

[Caitrin]

If you throw crap around, you're going to get crap thrown back. "It's a harsh world," especially if you deliberately start a conflict with someone.

Edited to remove IC info.

[Elfmolester]

Removed by poster.

[Marauder Moe]

Yikes.  You guys are like... totally having an IC discussion.  You should probably stop.

[Fiona Deathspike]

Scraping back from absolutely nothing again with a character I just started is something I have no intentions of ever doing.

Maybe you're playing the wrong game?

The game is about struggle.

Then again, I'm a little biased.  I enjoy my characters the most when I don't know where my next drink of water is coming from.  When things get easy, I get bored.

[Malken]

I never openly started any conflict with you. You and your friends came after me like drunken Bynners from Allanak instead of a bard from Tuluk. By that point I was so disgusted with your rp I didn't want to deal with your shit any more from an OOC standpoint.

After all these accusations, Elfmolester, I hope you are man enough to send your unedited log to the admins.

[Elfmolester]

You're right. I've had enough anyway. I have no intentions of further interaction with these people in the game period, didn't even feel like I was playing in Tuluk at all. At least if I make a pc in Allanak and people are acting so openly hostile it will be the norm.

[a strange shadow]

Wow, this thread is a candidate for lock/deletion if I ever saw one.

You guys are getting into way too much IC detail.

[Elfmolester]

Removed by poster.

[Caitrin]

Yes, this thread needs to be locked/edited/deleted or whatever.

-I- did log, and I will send my unedited log to the imms on your behalf, Elfmolester.

[Elfmolester]

Good. I will go back and edit out my previous posts.

[Morfeus]

Please, could you be that kind and stop discussing IC information on GDB? I appreciate Elfmolester removed some of his posts. Could Caitrin do same? I am seriously not interested to learn details of this in OOC way and I am somewhat annoyed I already learned that much, thinking this thread is something worth to read.

EDITed to add: Thank you.

[Marauder Moe]

Well then, that's a little better I guess.  It's a real shame when IC conflicts become OOC ones, though.

One point I'd like to add, however... Elfmolester, you said it reeks of H&S to rob someone naked.  While that may be true in some circumstances, I think it reeks of MUSH to assume that your character concept is sacred and other players aren't allowed to "ruin" it.

You've plenty right to be upset, but I don't think any rules were broken.  Hope you have a better time in Allanak?   :wink:

[LoD]

There have been a few times when the concept I devised was completely blown apart by what I perceived to be OOC influences in the game.  And while I was frustrated that I needed to shift gears, it ended up being an extremely rewarding experience that meant more to me than had the issues never surfaced in the first place.

There is something about fighting the odds, scrabbling to survive, and pushing your limits that provides for an enjoyable and liberating experience.  When you have nothing to lose, your character can make decisions and select courses of action that might never have occurred to them.  Your perceptions change when you are desperate, and perhaps your character grows in a new direction as a result.  That's the beauty of the game.  Nothing is scripted.  Nothing is staged, static, or predetermined.

I understand being frustrated at losing everything, and I agree that muggers didn't need to go to such extremes.  However, the game is going to be riddled with adversity and opposition, whether it be in the form of a thief stealing your personal belongings, or a raider stealing your life, someone is going to make your life rough.  While your character's reactions will differ based on the circumstances, you (the player) will probably react the same -- and rather than become discouraged and abandon the role because it doesn't fit within the parameters you've created well before the character began, I'd recommend toughing it out.

You may just be surprised at the outcome, and at yourself.

-LoD

[Gimfalisette]

Personally, I find that "bad stuff happening to my character" is one of the best tools for both character development AND plot development. I have had bad stuff done to me by other PCs, and I've done bad stuff to other PCs. My characters are regularly victimized in one way or the other...I get stolen from, people start nasty rumors about me, people try to use me, I've been attacked...on and on. In the vast majority of cases, "bad stuff" does not equal the loss of the character, IF you persevere through it and adapt.

It's really just about changing your perspective from "winning the game" to "living a character's life." If you really lived in Zalanthas, and knew you only had one life, would you throw it away so easily just because you got robbed? I know my characters wouldn't. For the most part, they'd do ANYTHING to survive. And, in fact, when faced with death, that's what my characters have done in the past, no matter how humiliating or how much it would set them back.

[Agent_137]

I can think of one simple, easy, way to come back. Plenty of wealthy people who can spare the risk of losing a cloak, a skin of water, and a sack of flour if they get a loyal pair of hands in return.

there's a lot that a simple pair of hands, a pair of ears, and a mouth can do. No coded skills required.

Sifting, for example, has the distinct advantage over salt grebbing, 'sid mining, and clay digging in that there's often a PC overseeing the workers.

If you want an easy life filled with a well RP'd character's progression through a script you have laid out, go play a MUSH.

If you want a harsh virtual reality inwhich to improvise . . . then you're in the right place.

[Dakkon Black]

Yeah dood, I can't believe you've survived in arm this long if that cheeses you off.

Sometimes when I start chars I strip them of everything and junk all the coin just for fun. The underdog is a kickass role if you want it to be.

[bloodfromstone]

I have to agree with the majority here. It's not necessarily ridiculous for someone to strip you naked. People do it in RL all the time. For one thing, it prevents the person from running instantly to get help, because they instinctively want to hide their nudity. If you made enemies, they did it to destroy you, and it worked. If it was just some mugger, maybe he needed the extra 5 coins to feed his spice habit.
I think all too often conflict is removed from the game. People are too quick to kill a PC to prevent conflict. People are too willing to give up and store due to conflict that should be really interesting. If someone strips you naked and leaves you alive, you've just received the ticket to some of the most interesting and active roleplaying you can do, as it all comes down to trying to stay alive.
Learn to roll with the punches. You will enjoy the game a lot more. I promise you there will be times when something genuinely really lame and OOC happens to your character, far worse than losing your equipment, and, unfortunately, the staff is not around 100% of the time to police everything. Other players will ruin your day sometimes, and if you want to keep playing your PC, you have to learn to make the most of it.
Here is an example from my personal experience. One of my very early characters here was a young mercenary girl that I created with the OOC intentions of joining the T'Zai Byn and learning the game. Well, instead, an Atrium Host whisked her off to the Atrium to learn to be an aide. Did cut into my original intentions for the character? Hell yes. Did I originally feel put-upon because another player essentially decided my character's profession for me? Certainly. Was playing a rough, tough, bar-fighting, dirty-mouthed mercenary girl in the Atrium and eventually Borsail one of the most fun experiences of my Armageddon career? You bet.

[James de Monet]

I have been in your exact same shoes.

Don't you mean feet?   :lol:

Seriously, though.  Guy molesting an elf, they didn't kill you.  They could have.  I think that right there speaks to IC motive behind their actions (or an OOC desire not to twink-kill, but either way...)  Sure, it's easier to feel like you're doing "well" in the game if your char is successful or rich or powerful, but that isn't what it's about.  It's about playing a role, even if that role is a disease-ridden, rinthi prostitute with one eye, if you play her dejection and absolutely base life well, you're still going to be adding something to the game.  Of course, that being said, it's a game and it's supposed to be fun.  If you're not enjoying your char, then, by all means, store when it's convenient and when it won't mess up plot lines.  You don't have to be a martyr and play a role you hate for other people's ideas of what the ideal Armer would do.

[Janna]

IC Actions = IC consequences. All that I have to say on it without going into details.

[alger]

I'm envious really.  Last time someone unknown caught me sleeping they killed me.

[Rindan]

1)  Getting stripped naked is not bad RP 99% of the time.  If you were out too cold to do anything about it, and someone either wanted to make your life miserable or simply make a few 'sid, stripping someone butt naked is a-okay.  This is Zalanthas, the 5 'sid pair of pants you are wearing is, well, 5 'sid.  Getting knocked out and waking up naked shouldn't be horribly surprising.  The only time I find it lame is if the person was just sleeping and realistically would have noticed you tearing off their pants and woken up (and even then, I think they have fixed this).

2)  To quote to documentation, "complaints of unfairness on the part of other players will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right."  Being a dick to people is not wrong in this game.  You don't need to cut people slack.  If someone decides to terrorize you, it doesn't mean that in real life they would like to beat  you with a baseball bat.  It likely means that their character is a dick and gets off on picking on people.  I have played many such characters.  Abusing someone isn't done because I hate YOU (the guy behind the PC).  I abuse people because my character is a complete asshole and really likes making other people suffer.  If the other guy behind the PC takes this personally, well, that is sad.

3)  It isn't the end of the world.  Seriously.  You can survive and even thrive.  Whatever shit you had on you can be regained.  If anything, it could push you into doing something interesting.  About to starve to death?  You might very well go take out a loan from someone you are not sure you can pay back.  You might join an organization you might otherwise not join.  The point of the game is not to amass a pile of shit and to sit on it.  If you are playing to collect objects, well, you are playing the wrong game.

4)  Rule #1 to living a long time is to NEVER GIVE UP.  I can't count the number of times I SWORE up and down that my character was dead but decided to hell with it, I would struggle forward.  90% of the time I made.  Dying of starvation in a city is pretty hard.  Something is bound to happen, especially if you try to make it happen.  If anything, it is a little too hard to die in a city.  One of the things I do with my new born 'rinthers is to tattoo myself up, maybe buy a very cheap weapon or trinket for decoration, then promptly dump the rest of my money.  You can live.  You might get a little desperate and hungry at times, but it can be done.  Desperation can be damn fun as it is one of the few times where you MUST do something or suffer the consequences.  When you over come such desperation and come out on top, you will get a nice and warm fuzzy spot in your got.

My advice?  Take a step back and stop being pissed off.  What happened was likely mean, assholish, and completely and a legitimate thing for an ass hole or desperate Zalanthian to do.  Stop being pissed off at the guys behind some other PC playing their characters.  Dust yourself off, and struggle forward.  If you find yourself pissed off at other people while playing this game, you are most likely playing this game with a very wrong mindset.

[Zharal]

This has been an interesting thread I guess..  If not slightly amusing.  On many occasions I have found myself in a position of error or such to find myself asleep and to wake with nadda.  But I have to say I didn't rant and rave about it in such a manor. (Almost child like in some instances.) The art of survival in such positions is a skill in its own right and one that is not so hard to figure out.  So what if you lost everything, theres lots of fun in building your character back up and possibly getting revenge latter.  But to just say its not fair and kill yourself off or shelf your character just seems weak to me.  Get a little fire in ya and work it out.. The rewards in the long run is way more satisfying then just quitting to start again.

[Morfeus]

Retiring for getting in troubles or failing in some long-planned plot is IMHO not the best reason. If nothing else, you miss all fun caused by this. Without going in IC details, I have a strong feeling this is exactly the case.

I know such situation could be hard for the player at first. But really, troubles are blood of the Armageddon.

[HoD]

Up until today, I would have agreed with the poster. I would have tossed a PC aside if it wasn't what I expected or if I wasn't getting any enjoyment out of it.

Saying that. The strangest things happen when your at the bottom of the rocks.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Look at the logs Ghost posted in the Player Submissions page. What would've happened in Haadith's player decided to suicide or store just because he lost everything? Imagine all the great RP that would've been lost.

[Mezzy]

I just got mugged for the first time, I saw a guy, walked past, thought "Hmm, I could mug that guy..." walked back, -THWAP- Mugger gets mugged before mugger has a change to mug the mug-ee.  Mug-ee turns around mug and mugs mugger, mugger wakes up to find himself mugged.

Oddly though, all he took was my pack and my weapons, nothing else, still had all my clothes, except he took my hood too, now I'm not in the hood.  Kinda sucked.  I suppose it was pretty funny though.

[Maso]

Stuff about mugging.

Roflcopter.

[Mezzy]

It's a funny word.  Just say "mug" about 100 times.  Wait five seconds, then say it once.
It won't even sound like a word anymore.

[Maso]

It's a funny word.  Just say "mug" about 100 times.  Wait five seconds, then say it once.
It won't even sound like a word anymore.

I do that with the word 'sponge'. It's weird.  :shock:

[Folker]

One of the most exciting, impressive, incredible and wonderful incidents and plot twists happened to my characters AFTER they got into some 'reaaaall' trouble. To be honest, all in all, surviving through events like that gives your character more wealth then the actual items and coin. Because now, your character is gifted with new enemies, new experience, new story, and new goal ... be it revenge, or survival.

Saying that, I think 90% of all my characters who got to position of stability are aware of a possibility of complete economical loss and have back ups, unless they have some kind of character traits that'd prevent that.

[John]

I just love how people seem to think that stealing from someone means they have to strip them completely of everything so that they no longer have anything to use to survive even. Unless you want to be a beggar it's a death sentence....if you're going to steal from someone, at least steal from them realistically and in such a way that they can recover from it to be stolen from again.

Sorry, but I'm not going to do this unless its realistic to do so for my character. However just as hunters shouldn't overhunt an area, neither should a thief. But if circumstance arises that I do need to steal from you in such a way as to make it nigh on impossible to recover, then I'm going to do it. Them's the breaks.

That's not enjoyable to be struggling to come back from unable to survive to a point where I can barely survive again.

Well sorry to hear that, but that's the game. I've had plenty of fun doing it as well.

Stripping someone completely naked smacks of H&S gaming.

Depending on the area you were in and the circumstance involved (which being unconscious you're not privy to), this is patently not true.

A few characters back my dude was naked having to go bar to bar and eat scraps off the tables. Now that was Zalanthas.

Exactly! It is so much fun to take a character who had a middle-class merchant upbringing and have them suddenly become buck-naked without a 'sid to their name. How far are they willing to go just to eat for the next meal? Will they kill? Will they scavenge from the dead? Will they run to a Templar or noble and beg for help? It will change your character forever going through such a circumstance.

I've always wanted to have a character get stripped naked with nothing left in the bank.  Someday I plan to make a new PC, dump all my starting coins and gear, and see if I can pull off a recovery.

Heh, now that sounds like something I might want to try (its easy to explain in your history "so and so was mugged and robbed blind of everything when he was in X").

[ale six]

Leaving somebody alive, even naked and penniless, is always a preferrable option to killing them in my book. I guess Armageddon has two types of violence and PvP... there's a "random" element, which might include muggings, thefts, desert raidings, etc, and a "premeditated" element, which would be stuff like assassinations, revenge murders, stuff specifically designed to cripple a person or group. While I think it's perfectly great to kill someone if you have a reason to kill that specific person (aka premeditated violence), it's not so great to just kill people at random. Non-permanent violence in those cases would be much nicer.

Hopefully the camp that says you can't raid or mug somebody and leave them alive without them destroying your anonymity will be more satisfied with the code in Arm2.

[sarahjc]

This thread has had the run of it. I'm not sure anyone is going to change the original poster's mind.

I will just say that whenever I see a person knocked out somewhere, I am taking your boots. If you have lost your shoes to being passed out in an IC circumstance, you can go and buy them back at the Kadians. Be it north or south, it was me.. I took your boots and sold them to kadius for 5 sid.. Even when someone strips you blind, I pop in for the briefest of seconds, just to take your shoes.

But Seriously, some folks just don't like to play the down trotted. Some folks in real life –are- the down trotted, so when someone beats them near death in game, and steals all their shit, they feel like they do not want to play that character. It's their call.. Meh..

I think many of us feel like they are missing out on some cool RP by suicide or retiring, but that is because we have a love for struggle and all things harsh and desert world. I think when people start this game, they don't quite get it. That the great Rp is what winning this game is all about. Not what kind of stuff you have,.stuff doesn't equal playability.  

Loosing all your stuff is just a new opportunity for some interesting RP. And once this guy starts to take a turn for the RP intensive.. and he will.. we all have.. he will realize that there is more to a character than what he wears.

[Elfmolester]

It's not about the "stuff" it was never about the stuff. It's about having people that, I don't believe, were acting very in character unless they were all playing characters that were exceptions to your typical Tuluki. Instead of displaying any subtlety whatsoever, they were very "in your face" about the whole thing. And yes, I don't get any particular enjoyment out of playing beggars, 'rinthi in general, etc. I prefer to play more of the average Joe type than the guy licking even Joe's boots for a scrap of food.
It's just not the sort of rp that I enjoy. I don't think that it's right for people to be telling me that because the grief part is their favorite part of the game that I must be a newbie or not understand the game if I don't like that being forced upon me by a group of others who were acting more the exception to the documentation than the rule.
I have no interest in playing the guy who begs/steals/becomes beholden to anyone/sucks cock/takes it in the ass/etc to survive. No, that is not "what Arm is all about", you can have struggle without it being complete grief. If that's what some of you like, that's fine, but there are many sorts of different roles for different people and being forced into playing such a role still really sucks for those of us who do not enjoy them. I'd suicide/retire the character if some pc templar walked up to me and said: "You're gonna have a shitload of stuff, money, etc because I'm making you a noble now (to serve my own twisted purposes of course)", because that is not what I intended to play.
I know that would never happen but does that help to get my point across without everyone berating me because I don't enjoy the complete downandout grief part of the game at all?

[Marauder Moe]

Hah!  I've had many fantasies about getting swept up in a plot where an Oash Lord bets a Borsail Lord that he can't take a dirty dirty commoner and turn him into a plausible noble in the space of a year, or that Lord Fancypant's assassination would be a major public blow to a noble house's image, but luckily no one has heard about the new yet and micarculously you bear a striking resemblance to the deceased noble...

But anyway, you're not being berated because you don't like playing out setbacks.  You're being berated because you innapropriately rebuked your attackers on an OOC forum.  You're being berated because you seem to think rules of the game were violated in your case, but they weren't.  You're being berated because you think that you have the right to completely avoid aspects of the game that you don't like to play, which for the most part you don't.

The people extoling the virtues of roleplaying extreme poverty aren't being vindictive, though.  They're trying to help you see the positive side of such a situation in the hopes that maybe you'll learn to enjoy them too.

No one is demanding that you like it, but such things are undeniably a part of the game and sometimes you can't avoid it.  That's not going to change either.  There won't ever be an ">OOC Consent to thievery?" rule.

[rishenko]

Because I'm the general Armageddon fuckup who has beautiful streaks of bad luck, I've been mugged numerous times, left for dead and generally gang raped by Whira's fingers of fate.

Shit happens.  It sucks, it pisses you off and makes you want to explode your computer monitor with a massive fucking sledgehammer.  But you know what?  If you can make a comeback...if you can pull it back together and regain all that you had, that's a personal sign that you are a badass.  It's an accomplishment.  You fucking fought against all the odds and climbed your scarred ass back on top of the mountain and shouted, "FUCK YOU, I'M STILL ALIVE!"  Trust me, it's a wonderful feeling once you get there.  Unfortunately the road leading to it is hard, tedious and shitty.  Especially if you get backdoored all over again halfway through your journey.

In the end it's worth it.  Don't give up.  If you like the char and were having fun with them, push on, persevere, kick some ass.

[spawnloser]

Just to clarify on some things...

It is very likely that stripping someone naked is unrealistic.  A thief stripping someone naked is conspicuous.  It should not be possible to do this unnoticed and being noticed and known as a thief is not good.  People are more likely to be friends with or hire a murderer than a thief.  Granted, this sounds more like a mugging (I didn't reread the whole thread and don't remember the initial situation) and muggers aren't quite the same.  Still, why strip someone naked?  To you really want to see that guy's wang?  Do you really want to spend so much time standing over your victim for everyone to see?

Berating someone for saying that s/he would retire a character for being stripped of all worldly possessions is silly.  Seriously, just about everyone has retired a character.  You know why those characters were stored?  The player didn't enjoy playing the character any longer.  Every player has a right to store a character when the character ceases to be fun to that player.  Sure, it could be fun for some of us to try to recover from that, but some people will not find that fun.  It does NOT mean that someone is a bad roleplayer because they don't find it fun.  A good roleplayer or a bad roleplayer could both find it fun or both find it not.  Someone's preferences do NOT a good or bad roleplayer make.  How they roleplay no matter their preferences is what decides that.

I think the OP is overreacting a bit, but I do sympathize.  I also think that some of the veiled suggestions that the OP is a poor roleplayer or 'doesn't quite get it' are uncalled for.

[Rindan]

It's not about the "stuff" it was never about the stuff. It's about having people that, I don't believe, were acting very in character unless they were all playing characters that were exceptions to your typical Tuluki. Instead of displaying any subtlety whatsoever, they were very "in your face" about the whole thing. And yes, I don't get any particular enjoyment out of playing beggars, 'rinthi in general, etc. I prefer to play more of the average Joe type than the guy licking even Joe's boots for a scrap of food.

I don't know the characters in question, but it is pretty hard to sit back and judge if they were supposed to be more sneaky or not.  Just because Tuluki folks in general value subtlety doesn't mean that everyone in Tuluk is a plotter above getting pissed off and beating the shit out someone and taking their clothes.  Even in the most refined societies you have thugs and ass holes with the subtly of a sledge hammer.  More to the point, if they did it and didn't get caught by a Templar, they WERE subtle.  Well, not from your perspective of course.  Think about it.  You beat someone up in an alleyway and take his clothes.  That person can certainly go turn you in to the Templars... but he would first have to walk up naked to a Templar and confess he just got beaten up and humiliated.  If the person you attacked is to humiliated to come forward, they just pulled of something as subtle as an assassins blade.

It's just not the sort of rp that I enjoy. I don't think that it's right for people to be telling me that because the grief part is their favorite part of the game that I must be a newbie or not understand the game if I don't like that being forced upon me by a group of others who were acting more the exception to the documentation than the rule.

Stuff is going to get forced on you in Armageddon.  Seriously, it is going to happen again and again.  I have been playing this game for years and I have had warrior mercenaries of d00m that could eat a Silt Horror with their bare hands have things forced on him.  There is always a bigger fish.  It doesn't matter if you are a 'rinth rat or a Templar, or a senior noble, there is a bigger fish that can eat you at any time.  People are going to decide to do mean things to you and ruin your life more then once.

Now, that isn't to say that you have to like it, but that isn't going to stop it from happening again.  Most people play this game because, unlike almost every other game out there, you can lose.  You lose big time.  In fact, you  always lose in the end.  Losing is what makes winning (temporarily... always temporarily) so damn fun.  It also makes the game thrilling and challenging in a way that World of Warcraft will never achieve.  I am telling you that as much as you might hate to lose, it is a fundamental part of the game that will never go away.

I have no interest in playing the guy who begs/steals/becomes beholden to anyone/sucks cock/takes it in the ass/etc to survive. No, that is not "what Arm is all about", you can have struggle without it being complete grief. If that's what some of you like, that's fine, but there are many sorts of different roles for different people and being forced into playing such a role still really sucks for those of us who do not enjoy them. I'd suicide/retire the character if some pc templar walked up to me and said: "You're gonna have a shitload of stuff, money, etc because I'm making you a noble now (to serve my own twisted purposes of course)", because that is not what I intended to play.

If you really don't like playing that sort of role, don't play it.  As you already know, you can always suicide a character.  That said, people are not going to stop doing it.  People are not going to OOCly ask if it is okay to beat you up before they do it.  Getting screwed is part of what Armageddon is about, but we all play here of our own free will and so can decide when that happens to opt out and start over.

I know that would never happen but does that help to get my point across without everyone berating me because I don't enjoy the complete downandout grief part of the game at all?

The are two reasons why people "berated".

First, you stated in your original post that is was totally unrealistic for people pissed off at you to beat you up and take everything that you owned.  You then went on to state that if they are going to do that, they should at least offer some way of getting your stuff back.  People berated you for this because it isn't unrealistic as you claim, and there absolutely is no requirement that you be given a way out or a way to get your stuff back.  No one is under any obligation to be nice.  You might hate that people act like that, but some of us love it.  That is a part of the game.  You can always suicide if you don't like (as you did).  Other people will happily role with the punches.

Second, people were trying to show you that it isn't so bad and that good things can come from a little adversity.  They were not saying this to make you feel bad, but to maybe get you to roll with it the next time it happens.  A lot of people, myself included, have faced similar challenges and found that struggling through was immensely rewarding.  Hell my all time favorite character was looted from twice, was banished from three major centers of civilization (at different times), rose to heights glory twice, and crashed from the heights of glory twice.  What made the character fun was the deep history.  This wasn't some World of Warcraft character that woke up every morning knowing that he would be better off then when he started.  This guy had history.  He had good times and bad times.  Clawing back from the bad times is part of what made him awesome.  I am not saying you have to agree, just that people are trying to impart on you that there is (for many people) virtue to be found in getting knocked back to square 1 and clawing your way back up.  Again, you don't have to agree, but people just want to show you that there are other perspectives.

So, yeah, I understand you think it sucks when other characters get the upper hand and beat your character into a bad spot.  I understand and sympathize.  I personally don't find it offensive when it happens to me, but I understand how it could bother you.  That said, this really and truly is apart of the game.  It will probably happen again.  It doesn't matter if you are a 'rinth rat, merchant, mercenary, or even Red Robed Templar.  There is someone above you who might one day decide to step on you.  You can either roll with the punches or suicide.  In the future, maybe you should try and see how rolling with the punches works?

[Twilight]

that is not what I intended to play

Get ready to almost never play what you, the player, actually intended to play, for any character that is alive an appreciable amount of time.  Unlike other games, you, the player, only have a limited amount of influence over what happens to your character.  To do otherwise is to stop treating the character as a character, with its own desires (which may have started as what you the player set), influeces, and history (some IC, some backstory).  If it is the player, rather than the character, making IC decisions, that is the very essence of falling out of RP as it is defined here.

This is a subtle, yet distinctive element of Arm roleplay.

[Xio]

Personally, I am in LOVE with getting my arse handed to me, sometimes literally, and starting at square 1. Unfortunately for myself, all my characters thus far have gotten themselves killed before they could start the climb back up, due to their rather.....unsavory attitudes. Anyway, when you look at it in its barest form, the initial climb and the 'second' climb are in essence the same thing, though the second can tend to be easier depending on the character's role and such.

[sarahjc]

Rindan is right, it's not that you suck because you don't want to play a "down on his Luck" PC. It's just that if given it happened again, which most likely it will at some point, you might want to try and roll with it. Obviously what happened to you, has happened to a lot of us. We all simpathize, it sucks.. But, comming back from that.. Is Sooooo rewarding. And who knows, you might come back so strong that you can one day steal all the shit from the guy who stole it from you.    But, you'll never know what can happen, unless you just stick with it.

It is the nature of the game. Also why most people are not hammering down on the guys who took all your stuff is because we know it happens. I personally would leave you with a pair of pants and a shirt on. But other than that.. I'm gonna take every little bit of valued merchandise on you, and your boots, just cause it's me.. and I find it humors to have people walk around on hot sand without shoes.

This game is a very (excuse the cheesy catch phrase) Dog eat dog kind of world. People will screw you over at every opportunity, and unless they trust you, they don't care about your PC, or what happens to it. Raiders, which I am assuming is what got you, especially don't care.  

Also, think about it, would you have felt any better if they had just left you with a shirt, pants and shoes?  You would still have to beg, and still have to struggle to get back, you would just not be sunburned and naked when you walked into the city.

So there you have it. Can you sucide when you get robbed down to your skivies? Sure. Is it bad RP to suicide or retire after, I dunno, But People Suicide for bad stats too..So Meh. Is it bad Rp to get robbed clean.. Maybe. Do people do it all the time, Yes.  I'd say that depends on the whys and hows, which are too IC for this discussion as the various edits have proven, to say if your guy was just unlucky or the Victim of twinkish behavior. That's for the staff to look at.

So, good luck with the next one.. I hope he runs a better lot with luck.

[Rhyden]

Maybe I'm just weird...

But I LOVE being knocked out/stripped naked/tossed in the middle of the desert with nothing but a loincloth (yes, you know who you are).

Being rock bottom and having to struggle hard to get back on your feet is just totally awesome for me.

[Lizzie]

I read the posts written before they were edited to remove IC info.

It sounds, like the entire thing was completely IC, true to the personalities of the characters, and that one party "got his due" as a result of their own actions. One party did something to really annoy another party, and as a result, that party found himself beaten up and buck naked with not a single sid to his name.

It sounds like a very Zalanthan situation to me, and I don't understand why anyone would make a fuss about it.

If you "stand up for yourself" to someone with more clout than you, expect to get beaten to a pulp and stuck in the middle of somewhere, buck naked, without two sids to rub together.

Or, stash all your sids in the bank, so that next time you decide to "stand up for yourself" and get stripped naked, you have sids to buy some more stuff and aren't naked anymore.

If you want your character to be a brave, arrogant, brute of a guy, be sure you can back it up. If you can't, then you have no reason to blame someone else when your character is put in his place.

That's how I see it, anyway.

L. Stanson

[Elfmolester]

Maybe for Allanak, Red Storm, Luir's Outpost. But not for Tuluk, the whole situation was handled in a very unTuluki fashion. I fully expected something to come about from it...in a more typical "Tuluki" way than it was handled.
Not beaten down in the streets like an elf surrounded by drunken Bynners in Allanak. These were not Bynners mind you...they were the last folks in the world you would expect to bust out with open in-your-face- sort of attacks and I personally feel there should have been some consequences for their actions that were befitting those acting like "southron thugs". It was about as unexpected and out of the norm as seeing a kank riding elf, a rocket scientist half-giant, or a noble trapsing about the 'rinth in my opinion.

[Gimfalisette]

How do you know there were no consequences?

And are you sure you are the ultimate arbiter of Tuluki culture?

[Agent_137]

[James de Monet]

You didn't expect it.  That says that a lot of people aren't doing this in Tuluk.  How do you know these people aren't the exception that proves the rule?

Besides, it could have been worse.  If you really, really want to punish someone, knock them out, strip them naked, then drop all their stuff in the room where they are with dropdescs like "lies here torn to shreds" or "is half-buried in the sand, snapped into pieces".  Then, they get to wake up and find that nothing is missing, just ICly ruined.  Then they get to choose between all their hard-earned stuff, and their integrity as an RPer.   :twisted:   Anybody who's hardcore enough for this game will pick up all their lovely things and junk them themselves.  That's pure Arm awesomesauce right there.

[jhunter]

You didn't expect it.  That says that a lot of people aren't doing this in Tuluk.  How do you know these people aren't the exception that proves the rule?

Besides, it could have been worse.  If you really, really want to punish someone, knock them out, strip them naked, then drop all their stuff in the room where they are with dropdescs like "lies here torn to shreds" or "is half-buried in the sand, snapped into pieces".  Then, they get to wake up and find that nothing is missing, just ICly ruined.  Then they get to choose between all their hard-earned stuff, and their integrity as an RPer.   :twisted:   Anybody who's hardcore enough for this game will pick up all their lovely things and junk them themselves.  That's pure Arm awesomesauce right there.

Pssshhh...wuss. I'd cut off their hands, cauterize the wounds with a torch and leave them to figure out how to live. :twisted:

[Rindan]

I fully expected something to come about from it...in a more typical "Tuluki" way than it was handled.

Tuluki are not against violence.  They are not against killing or humiliation.  They just do it in back corners and alleyways.  A bar fight in public would be considered crude, but beating someone up in a back alleyway as a lesson is perfectly acceptable.  It isn't that Tuluki only use mean words against each other, it is that they keep their violence and feuding out of the public eye or use proxies to do it in the public eye.

However, let us assume that what happened was totally inappropriate for a Tuluki to do.  I would argue that they can be just as thuggish as any Allanaki, but lets run with the assumption that this was a big faux pas for a Tuluki to do.  How do you expect their to be IC consequences for them if the victim (you) suicides?  You could have found a Templar and tried to get the Templar to deal with them.  You could have found a bard to embarrass them with their thuggish Allanaki like ways.  You could have found their patron or employer and embarrassed them with a story of how crass they are.  Hell, you could have found a patron or employer who hates their patron or employer and worked together to bring about some retribution or public ridicule.

Instead, you suicided.  That means that as far as everyone else is concerned, what happened was that you gave some people a reason to be pissed off and then you were never seen from again.  That is about as Tuluki as it gets.  People vanish in Tuluk all the time.  A group that can make someone vanish just racks up more respect, and buy suiciding you play into that.

[Adhira]

It's been said before:

If you feel you have a geniune complaint then please use the request board and speak to the staff about it.

If you think a character in game has been mean to you - they probably were. Live with it.