Size and Bash

[Clearsighted]

Hrm. After about three weeks of further 'observation', this is definitely something I hope gets fixed soon.

It is really sad when someone's arbitrarily chosen height, not only counts for MUCH more than weight, but that it is vastly much more important than skill or strength.

No need to rehash the reasons listed in this thread, I just felt that after three weeks of paying close attention to this, I really can't wait for the formula to take strength and skill into greater account over arbitrary size. Currently, an averagish strength, yet max height elf can bash down even a near-max strength dwarf with a higher bash skill pretty easily, and the dwarf will find it impossible to knock the elf down (I.E, fail 100 out of 100 times). And will in fact, often be reverse-bashed. It's just...wrong. Same thing applies to fighting gith.

Imo, skill level should always account for the vast majority of a skill's effectiveness. All that size is worthless, perhaps even harmful, if you don't know how to use it.

[Rhapsody of Zalanthas]

Heh, just recently witnessed a rather large lizard animal get reverse-bashed by a rather new hunter for the sole fact that the hunter was taller, I would think. Just doesn't seem right.

[Kalden]

The formula that Morgones proposed is perfect! Add strength as a factor to that and it's golden. Height actually does make it easier to be bashed over.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Just out of curiosity, how does one get real life experience knocking a few animals with four legs off their balance?

Cow tipping man..  you'd think everyone would know that.. oh wait..

IMHO, there's no f'in way an elf is bashing.. much of anything, elf against a human would be close, but a dwarf is short and heavy.. for an experiment..

Try setting up a square block.. a cinder block and push it over with a feather.

Now on the same note, stand up a pencil and push it with a feather.. which falls? The pencil... thus, dwarves should pwn elves.

What about carru?

Half-giants are pwners and everyone knows that, humans are alright, half-elves... who cares, elves? psh, weak. Dwarves? Stout as oxen.. mantis? Simply badass and then... BRAINZ..

But seriously.. I think it should just be racial mods, something like..

Elf - 1
Helf - 2
Human - 2.5
Dwarf - 4
Mul - 20
HG - 50000000

So.. obviously, an elves' agility will make up for his lack of bashness, but a dwarf's lack of agility will make out with his bashness... yes, make out.

So.. in lamens terms, lay off the reefer.

Dwarves win.
Elves - Pwnt.

[Rhyden]

So.. in lamens terms, lay off the reefer.

That's where you lost me.

[Clearsighted]

I just want it to have skill and strength be a greater factor than size. No need for complicated racial modifications.

As of now, a human 76 inches tall with average strength will easily outbash a 70 inch tall human with AI strength.

It encourages people to max their heights.

[X-D]

I'm going to go with Morganes suggestion, the more I look at it the more I like it. Add in strength and skill and we are good.

Playing around with friends and co-workers, I find that the biggest thing to decide if I can knock somebody down is simple mass, followed by skill then strength then agility.

Women are the easiest to knock over, even the ones that are my size. Sorry gals, but you are weaker.

Against people my height but weighing at least 50lbs less, if they are agile its basicly a stalemate. They simply are not strong enough or mass enough to knock me over and they are simply quick enough to avoid me being able to knock them over easily.

Actually, two males, one weighing 145lbs at 5'7" and the other at 160lbs 6'2" working together could not knock me over. And I'm 6' 200lbs. Of course they are both 21 and 23 years old and I'm pushing forty so I had experiance(skill) On my side as well.

I have a co-worker who is 26 years old, 6'1" 285lbs. He bowls me over with relative ease. And I've knocked him down like 2x now, and both times I had to sneak up on him.

[Hymwen]

Where the hell do you work? Is it normal to like wrestle in the lunch break?

[X-D]

Yup, I work in the shipping department of a rather large production facility, we have lots of free time this time of year.

[Clearsighted]

Did Morgenes proposed suggestion for a new formula for bash ever end up getting implemented?

[Sephiroto]

I'm not aware of one. 

As for my take on it, I like Morgenes height/weight ratio with a strength factor.  I do not like race factors, as those factors are really just based on strength.  The unfortunate fact of the matter it is possible for a human to be almost as strong as a weak mul.  So giving humans an all around bash variable of 5 and muls 25 just isn't all that well rounded at all.

Based on recent events I'd like to see this changed.  I have a character who isn't as tall as elves, but weighs more and is probably much stronger than them.  It seems like my character has difficulty bashing elves based on the hight factor alone.

[Synthesis]

You're probably having difficulty bashing elves because the major defense to bash seems to be agility.

Anyone who's ever tried bashing a halfling (even with a half-giant) knows what I'm talking about.

At that point, it makes sense:  just because you're strong doesn't mean that you can actually make contact with someone who can do backflips over you while you're charging after them.

[X-D]

Synthesis is correct.

My last dwarf warrior could easily bash things MUCH taller then him, but would have problems with halflings and other very high agi PC/NPCs no matter the height. And I think there is one other variable that matters, but I will not say on here, test for yourself.

[Sephiroto]

No, I don't know what you're talking about.  I've had plenty of experience with halfling and my perception is that elves have been better at dodging my bashes than halfling.  I've seen half-giants who don't seem to have any problems bashing halfling or elves on a regular basis.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

With half-giants, the size factor makes up for the agility factor.

[Janna]

I missed this thread when it was first around, but my 2 sids on it is to leave it alone.

This is kind of an RL misconception that height and weight matter. A ten year old could kick out a 600 pound, five foot man/woman's knee and push and send them toppling. I envision bash IG as an open ended technique, not just some flying dwarf torpedo behind a shield to crash into your chest as hard as they can. If I have a five foot, 120lbs pc and she effectively knocks someone over who is -obviously- way bigger then she is via description, then I throw out a combat emote of a leg sweep, knee kick, or something that would make them off-balance along with my body weight hitting them. If it fails, well, then throw out a combat emote again saying how you totally blew your attempt and ended up on your face.

Anyone who's ever watched martial art tournaments for Karate or such would have noticed their are no weight classes, (one's I've been in, anyway) and I've personally seen one black belt who was hovering on the 5'4 mark and -maybe- 130lbs send another black belt who was easily 6'3 and 230lbs flying like a feather.

[Is Friday]

Let's see that happen in a non-sports martial arts tournament. Size matters immensely in any ground fight.

[Qzzrbl]

It's fun to emote tripping over a dwarf after a failed bash attempt. 

[fourTwenty]

Let's see that happen in a non-sports martial arts tournament. Size matters immensely in any ground fight.

Yes and no.

Size matters if you have two untrained fighters on the ground. If either of the two know what they are doing then there are advantages to being the taller or smaller guy. You just have to know what your advantage is and apply it. Royce Gracie, 'nuff said.

As far as bash, I think it should be based purely on skill and left open-ended like already suggested. If a HG sends an elf rolling, emote it was a shoulder-check from Drov. If a dwarf want's to bash over that same elf, emote a shoulder toss or dropkick to knee.

If you want to get IRL with it (which I suggest we don't, because as much as I would like to lean the game toward RL as much as possible, some players want fantasy. And it is a fantasy game.) skill is -all- that matters. I'm only 5'6, 145 (135 fighting weight) and I doubt there's a person on this board I can't put on the ground (and if there is anyone on this board I can't take down it's because they're more skilled than I, size has -NOTHING- to do with it).

So to reiterate, why not just base it -solely- on bash skill and let our awesome RP'rs emote why the shortest dwarf on Zalanthas just flipped that Mul over his shoulder like a sack of flour.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd like to see the wording for 'bash' changed to:
Success:The brawny woman takes the lithe man off of his feet.
Failure:The brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but stumbles.
Reverse:The lithe man reverses the brawny woman's attempt to take him down and takes her down instead.

That is a simple statement of fact, instead of something subjective. It allows the greatest freedom for emoters, and for those that don't, it's again perfectly factorial. If command emoting is added to this, it makes it even better.
Success:Charging forward, the brawny woman takes the lithe man off of his feet.
Failure:Charging forward, the brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but stumbles.
Reverse::Charging forward, the brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but he takes her down instead!

[FuSoYa]

I'd like to see the wording for 'bash' changed to:
Success:The brawny woman takes the lithe man off of his feet.
Failure:The brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but stumbles.
Reverse:The lithe man reverses the brawny woman's attempt to take him down and takes her down instead.

That is a simple statement of fact, instead of something subjective. It allows the greatest freedom for emoters, and for those that don't, it's again perfectly factorial. If command emoting is added to this, it makes it even better.
Success:Charging forward, the brawny woman takes the lithe man off of his feet.
Failure:Charging forward, the brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but stumbles.
Reverse::Charging forward, the brawny woman tries to take the lithe man off of his feet but he takes her down instead!

That's cool.  Little changes like that I think would go a long way.

Brandon

[a strange shadow]

Wording it like that surely would make the fights sexier to watch.

Or maybe I'm just dirty-minded.

[Gimfalisette]

Wording it like that surely would make the fights sexier to watch.

Or maybe I'm just dirty-minded.

Code Select Expand


Ripping off her shirt to flash him some boobies, the brawny woman takes the lithe man off his feet.


I can definitely see the usefulness.

[Kalden]

The benefits associated with large size can be countered by hide/sneak benefits for small size, and perhaps other benefits (less food/water required, able to fit into smaller areas, which is already coded).

[Synthesis]

Wording it like that surely would make the fights sexier to watch.

Or maybe I'm just dirty-minded.

Code Select Expand


Ripping off her shirt to flash him some boobies, the brawny woman takes the lithe man off his feet.


I can definitely see the usefulness.

Now pair that with the crim code:

You are now wanted!