shops in certain cities

[ianmartin]

Just to keep it IC, I won't actually name the city.

However, have any of you noticed that in a certain city, the shopkeepers don't buy anything relating to tools or certain crafts?

It's tripping me out because one of the other cities, they can't get enough of them.

Crazy eh?

[mansa]

If you want the reason why they don't buy, I would recommend that you email mud@armageddon.org and ask the question there.

Because I don't have an answer for you. Sorry!

[Cuusardo]

I've always wondered more why the Salarr armor shop in one particular city buys things like incense burners, and wooden boxes.

[Djarjak]

If you see something that seems really out of character, you can also mail the staff to ask.

[Cuusardo]

If you see something that seems really out of character, you can also mail the staff to ask.

I've bugged the shopkeeper I was talking about once or twice.

I also wonder why players are selling things like that in the shop.  

[ianmartin]

One of the merchant family shops that deals specifically with items of that sort will NOT purchase items of that sort, and will even point you to the family's other shop that should not even deal with that type of object.  When you go to the other shop, they buy the stuff even though they should have nothing to do with the item.

It blows when you have stuff piling up and can't unload it, even for 1 sid you know.

[Cuusardo]

One of the merchant family shops that deals specifically with items of that sort will NOT purchase items of that sort, and will even point you to the family's other shop that should not even deal with that type of object.  When you go to the other shop, they buy the stuff even though they should have nothing to do with the item.

It blows when you have stuff piling up and can't unload it, even for 1 sid you know.

This may be true, but that doesn't make it realistic IC to sell incense burners and little wooden boxes to a shop that deals in armor.  There are probably PCs out there who would buy some of these things, and chances are you could get a higher price from them than you would an NPC shopkeeper.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I've noticed that it's almost impossible to unload any sort of container object in Allanak.
Even if they're pants.

[Agent_137]

derail:
I can't figure out why players don't stand in front of the bank or in front of taverns hawking their wares like they do in every other mud on this damn planet.

[jstorrie]

shout (raising his goods high in the air) WTS [BULBOUS SAC] x 3!

[Djarjak]

I've noticed that it's almost impossible to unload any sort of container object in Allanak.
Even if they're pants.

Working on this.

[Synthesis]

RE: Selling to Players.

Point 1:  Often, if you have an uber haggling skill, you can get vastly higher prices from NPCs than you could ever hope to bilk out of a PC.  PCs balk dramatically as soon as the price of anything gets over 100 'sid, and they'll generally scoff at anything over 300, unless you are a House merchant, and promising Uber Goods of Ultimate Destrukshun.  Selling trinkets for 20 'sid a pop doesn't get the rent paid.

Point 2:  PCs don't want incense burners, vases, small boxes, or any of the shoddy, inferior, or useless (in combat) wares that comprise the vast majority of craftable items.  Go ahead and try selling that stuff to PCs...it works about as well as crossing the Atlantic in a lead balloon.  I doubt you could even give it to them for free, without them junking it immediately after finding out that -they- can't sell it to an NPC.

Point 3: PCs don't want some jerk-off standing outside the tavern shouting about carved alabaster bowls.  People already complain about people spamming the tavern with -poetry and music-!  Do you really think people are going to stand idly by and let you shout at the top of your lungs about your well-fashioned grass baskets?

Point 4: To get to the Good Stuff, you have to craft a vast quantity of Crap Stuff (it's like sparring for crafters).  While you're crafting all of this Crap Stuff, you have to eat, drink, and buy items from which you can make the Crap Stuff.  This gets to be quite expensive, over time, and there has to be some way to finance it, or you might as well make merchants a special-app-only class that must be created in a Merchant House.  The financing is through NPC shopkeepers.  Take them away, and  you'll hear a giant sucking sound across the Known World as crafter PCs retire and create warriors instead (or even worse--warriors who craft on the weekends, when they're not sparring).

Point 5:  It's already ridiculously hard to be a crafter in a certain city.  Raising the bar even higher is just sadistic.

Point 6: About the Salarr shop in Tuluk (yes, everybody knows about it, stop being coy):  it's one of only 3 or 4 shops in the ENTIRE WORLD that will buy container-class objects.  How realistic is it that PCs are selling boxes to an armor shop?  Well...how realistic is it that nobody within hundreds of leagues wants to buy boxes?  Should there be an easily accessible shop in every city that buys containers? Probably.  Is there? Nope.  So we have a workable, if slightly unrealistic compromise solution at the present.  Deal with it.  (Incidentally, I suspect this complaint comes from the perspective of an armor-maker trying to make dough off the NPC shopkeeper, but being oppressed by the competition from box-makers.)

[spawnloser]

You're wrong, Synthesis, about the number of container-buying shops in the world.  I don't want to go into details...but only examining three starting locations and their surrounds, I can think of 5 easy.  There are a few other cities/villages around that may or may not be buying containers.  In Allanak, selling a container is hard, and I support changing that...but in other locations?  We're good or better than good.

[Dalmeth]

You're wrong, Synthesis, about the number of container-buying shops in the world.

Not very wrong.  A large portion of those shops only have about 200 'sid in buying cash, too.

[spawnloser]

One of those shops...maybe.

Second of those shops...no, not really.

Third through fifth?  Hell no.  They have ridiculous amounts of spending money with what everyone buys from them that aren't containers.

Mind that I am thinking of 5 specific shops that I know well.  Mind that we may be thinking of different locations.

[Agent_137]

RE: Selling to Players.
A bunch of good points

I don't want to respond point by point to your points, it's too much work.

So suffice to say, while I've never tried to sell items to other players, i am never approached by players trying to sell to me.

But if I was, i'd be sure to shell out cash for worthless trinkets, if the seller was anything of a salesman.

Why? My character is clanned and well armored and  well armed. what the fuck else am i going to spend money on?

Ale and spice in taverns? Oh yea, I do. Why? Surely not because my character needs them. It's for interaction.

So why don't you sellers TRY to sell to PCs. just fucking try more, ok? A little? Stand out there with the NPC hawkers and scream your lungs out like a good zalanthan merchant, not some pouty PC.


p.s.
What happened to the salesman ideal of selling refrigerators to Eskimos? Surely there's a zalanthan equivalent. Why are we seeing this? Do crafters not feel the need to be salesmen, too?

[a non e mouse]

RE: Selling to Players.

Point 1: Haggle gives better prices than PCs

Point 2:  PCs don't want useless stuff

Point 3: PCs hate Spam

Point 4: You end up with useless shit at low level crafting skills

Point 5:  Crafting is hard in a certain place

Point 6: you have nothing do do with all your boxes

Dude, as a merchant/crafter, I have never once sold an item to an NPC. Certain characters of mine have made a large amount of money (when I have "enough" money I tend to stop working, so I'm not an uber bank account kinda guy) doing nothing but selling so-called "useless" stuff to PCs.

Also, It's far more fun to do it this way. How do you start a business? Figure out what you can sell, check out the markets, get your name out there, sell things.

Let's say I'm an armorcrafter, right? I learn to make some armor, make some petty stuff. try to sell it, if you can't? give it away, make a friend. Later, when you're an armorcrafter supreme, this friend might want the kevlar jumpsuit you're selling.

Check out the markets- think logically. Who's going through a lot of armor? Organizations with a lot of fighters Who wants a lot of shitty low-crafting-level-armor for a relatively low price? Shitty mercenary companies. Try to get a contract or something. When you get good, maybe you'll outfit a noble guard unit, or whatever. Also, let's say for some reason, people aren't buying armor, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! I think we could always use more travelling salespeople, bring in foreign materials, gather raw materials from far away places, etc. etc. PCs want these!

Get your name out there - make friends, give a couple little things away and offer a whole matching suit of it for a price. Hire bards to spam busy taverns with a song about your <insert useless thing here> There are good enough RPers here to respond to that kinda thing...

Anyway, enough ranting. My point is, Put a little more thought into your merchants than "I made a box, I'm taking it to the place that buys boxes"

[a non e mouse]

What happened to the salesman ideal of selling refrigerators to Eskimos? Surely there's a zalanthan equivalent. Why are we seeing this? Do crafters not feel the need to be salesmen, too?

Selling sand... I was surprised when I found a shop that sold it...  :shock:

[Cuusardo]

I've bought plenty of "useless" stuff from PCs since I've been playing this game, and I've also seen others do it.  I admit that I am guilty of looking for reasons for my PCs to use this so-called "useless" stuff that PC crafters make.

Crafters: especially if you are merchants, you have to be salespeople.  Hawk your stuff.  Look for people who will buy it.  Explain to people why your stuff is awesome and they should buy it.  Give them ideas of what to use it for.  You may not think there are people out there, but there are.  You may not get quite as many coins from them as an NPC merchant, but at least you're getting something for it rather than letting your stuff accumulate and getting nothing for it.

You should also keep in mind the principles of supply and demand.  For example, if Kadius is selling red in their shops this month, people will more likely be looking for accessories that compliments those clothes rather than ones that don't.  If everyone and his grandmother has a wooden chest with a skull carved into it, push a different kind of chest, or something entirely different.

Location, Location, Location:  Know where your stuff sells best!  You will be hard pressed to sell an izdari set to someone in the rinth, but chances are you can probably find a noble (or aide) who is interested in one.  If you've got something with a dragon motif, Tuluk is not the best place to sell it.  Think of which materials are more sought after in which city.

Ask people, "What do you need?" or "What can I make for you?"  You'd be surprised with the things people need or want.  Also, it couldn't hurt to suggest giving things as gifts.

[adrien]

I've noticed that it's almost impossible to unload any sort of container object in Allanak.
Even if they're pants.

i never had a problem acctually, i know of certain places in nak but they move around