Thank you for the worst RP I've ever seen

[Nokturn]

Without telling IC details, I would like to tell you the worst and saddest (OOCly) moment I've had in Armageddon. Just need to let some steam out.

I shouted for help, I told them to spare my life, I told them I would give them my money, my clothes, just let me live, I would even work and give them all my money I would earn. No. My character was killed by two guys, without a SINGLE emote, without a SINGLE non-coded command, without any imagination, without any word, any say, any hello, any good bye, any evil grin.

It was, up to date, the best character I've had (wonderful background, made good friends IC) and died a death, that really made me sad, angry and frustrated as a player.

That makes me want to run whenever someone enters a room outside of town, but I know that would make things only worse.

[mansa]

Hey Nokturn,

I feel for you, buddy.  I've been there.  Done that.  Took a long break, and came back, only to have it done to me again.

My advice, if you want to hear it?

Create a character whose purpose is to die within the next 3 playing days.  A minor character, like an old man or a poorly skilled thief.  And watch him squirm and bleed as you kill him off.  Usually that helps.

[Rhyden]

All I can say is it happens. If you're starting out in Armageddon, I'd recommend making a few 'throwaway' characters to introduce yourself with the code and environment.

Are you sure these two guys weren't NPCs? Even if they weren't, your time may have been better invested attempting to flee from these two meanies than begging for your life, it seems.

And, like said before, emoting does not equal RP. If it made sense for these two guys to do nothing but attack you, then they will. That's life in Zalanthas for you.

Other than that...

Two, life is hard. There are no free lunches on Zalanthas. There aren't even free drinks of water. It is likely that you will die, and if you are unlucky or unintelligent you will die very fast. Only the fittest live long enough to retire in comfort at the end of their careers.

Three, sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being mean to others that you meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of them as long as the meanness is in-character (IC).

Four, complaints of unfairness on the part of other players will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right.

[rufus]

Been there in similar situations way too many times.
It really does suck.  You make some really good IC friends after a lonely week, have some conversations, laughs, etc, and generally have a good time, then you walk 2 rooms away from the city, bam, all hell breaks loose onto you and your day is screwed majorly to the 234981293th power.

[Majikal]

---/;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;\
::/:::::::::::::::::::\
-|:::::R . I . P:::::::|
-|::::NOKTURN:::::|
-|:::::::::::::::::::::|
-|::Survived from::|
-|Awhileago-recent|
-|::::::::::::::::::::::|
-|:::he:had:fren's::|
-|:::but:nun:culd:::|
-|:::stop:his:fate:::|
-|:Da:unemotepwn:|
-|;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;|

[rufus]

rofl

[LoD]

Creepy Alley
The swarthy, black haired man stands here, hand on his blade.
The mud caked, tangle hiared woman is here, leaning against the wall.

A male voice says, in sirihish:
   "I want you two to pay a friend of mine a visit.  His name is Beebo.  He is a midget.  And he's crossed me...FOR THE LAST TIME!"

A male voice says, in sirihish:
   "I emote wind picking up around him when he spam hunts to no avail.  I hurl him through the air to scare him, and he hits F5 and spam runs to his apartment, which is poor decorated I might add."

His voice tinged with anger, a male voice says, in sirihish:
   "I want you to find him, and kill him.  I want him to suffer as -I- have suffered.  I want HIM to feel what it's like to be hunted, hunted like a piece of mindless meat!"

Head bobbing quickly in response, the swarthy, black haired man says, in sirihish:
   "Aye, m'lord.  We'll make it long an' painful!"

The swarthy, black haired man nods to his partner, turning to leave the alley.

Calling out sharply in the still air, a male voice says, in sirihish:
   "NO!"

The swarthy, black haired man lifts a crooked brow, gazing back over his shoulder.

Words laced with malice, his tone sinister, a male voice says, in sirihish:
   "Make it...boring."

The mud caked, tangle haired woman gasps, glancing slack jawed toward the swarthy, black haired man in disbelief.

The swarthy, black haired man's features slowly draw downward, disappointment and shame taking permanent residence within his gaze.

------------

I feel for you, man.  Sometimes it's hard to learn where to draw the lines of what you will entrust to the other player.  I've played both the victim and the killer, and both of them have left me wanting more than once.  I've felt frustrated as a victim on the receiving end of a RP-less PK from the highest karma option guild in the game, and I've felt guilty performing a realistic, if lackluster and quick paced, murder.

The best I think most of us can do is strive to be the better person in the hopes that it inspires the people around us, and even ourselves.  It's harder to do than it sounds, but it's a worthy effort.  Good luck on your next character.

-LoD

[manonfire]

I wouldn't really worry about it.

Kids that do this sort of thing are destined to forever inhabit the "kindergarten roles" (thanks jarrod).

If you care enough about RP to complain about a poorly-RP'ed death, then you're probably destined to have a decent amount of karma.

Imagine the same thing happening to you a year or so down the line, except this time you have a mindbender.

Revenge is a dish best served cold

[Tlaloc]

Also remember if you have a complaint about a player (or staff), you can use the request tool to complain to the staff, and get it handled. In a situation such as this, attaching logs might be a good idea, so we can try and understand the situation better.

[Pale Horse]

I feel your pain, man.  I lost my last character in just such a fashion.

[jstorrie]

Shit happens, dude.

a) Maybe there was lead-up roleplaying that you didn't see. ("You two: kill this guy. Make it quick and quiet. Don't say shit to him. Just kill him, and the money's yours.") Assume good faith.

b) Complaints about player conduct should go through the request tool. They are for the immortals to handle, not for the playerbase to argue about.

c) Welcome to Armageddon.

[Travel Cake]

I disagree that this is the wrong forum to give vent to frustration. Really complaining is about the best satisfaction left to him. Maybe having read this will discourage someone from handling this situation in the same manner. He's not giving away ic info. Why not just let him vent?

[Dakkon Black]

I usually rp my little bottom off, and I think in 5-6 years of playing arm, I've only killed a few pc's.

A few of them were acciddental, where my char was just.. too strong for his own good. And one was because I wanted him to die. I dragged that one out, torture, rp lots of fun.

Just a little while ago I was in a situation where I was just subdued and killed without any rp. Just enter room, subdue, kill. By two pc's.

The lesson in the end, is that there are bad people out there who will kill you in RL and in Arm. It sucked that I died, but yeah I was pretty much shattered by the lack of any fun into it.

I strongly hope arm gets away from this trend. A few other insances have led me to see things like a magicker coming into a certain area. Instead of ANYONE staying to rp and make a scene out of it, every single pc insta fled.

This isn't the type of play I want to see in arm. I want the tense situations, the escapes, the captures. But I was dissapointed again. The uber defiler instead of emoting and making the scene real simply cast one spell after another without emoting until I was dead.

That was the worst one for me. Uber pc had complete control, all the time in the world. I thought at least I'd get some kinda excitement out of it.

The lesson in this all. My latest chars have for the first time avoided ANY desert rp. I just don't do it anymore. It's not worth the risk. I've become an insta flee advocate. Stop enjoying arm for it's rp, if you ever see another pc, just insta flee, it's the only way to enjoy the game outside with the current crop of twinks.

[X-D]

Personaly, I feel for the OP, He had time to do all that and the other players could not throw even a single bone, Bah.

Dakkan, Really man, you might consider not playing anymore. If I felt that way I would.

I think LoD has the right of it myself. I normaly try and give as much fun as I can to my victems. But there are also times when a murder is supposed to be lightning fast, and when its planning and execution go perfectly. When that happens One seccond your eating a travel cake, the next you looking at the mantis head and have to scroll back to find out what happened. I am dissapointed that when that happens, almost 100% of the time the victem starts yelling TWINK to a Good IC event.

[Dakkon Black]

It's not really feeling one way or another.

The bottom line truth is, if you try to rp, and they try to kill, you loose.

The staff -will- side with whoever walked in and killed you, because ICly that's exactly what happened.

Trying to rp has wasted more hours of my life then anything. I think it's the best advice you can possibly give someone who is new to this game. Don't stick around to rp, because if they decide to just kill you, then what have you gained? Nothing.

I still fully plan to make fun and exciting scenes, that involve me killing people. But you honstly can't trust any other pc out there to rp. Doing that has cost me several chars, one over 60 days.

[spawnloser]

I think you are thinking a little...simply, Dakkon.  You are equating speaking and emoting to RP, which are not.  They are each an element of RP, but just because someone didn't do something that you could see does not mean that are not rolelpaying.

This also goes back to the issue that if you expect people to auto-attack and thus auto-flee, you will encourage more people to auto-attack to get the combat started because they'll expect people to auto-flee...which will only encourage more auto-fleeing...which will encourage...which will...which...

It's a circular issue, and if no one person decides to stick around, noone will.  Please don't tell people that the best advice is to auto-flee.  My suggestion would be to make a complaint so that the person doing the bad can be talked to about it.  Perhaps they did nothing wrong, you just couldn't tell.  Sure, you may lose a character and that sucks, but it is just a game.  You can make a new character.

[Sokotra]

I just feel like people need to back off a little on killing PC's.  If there is a real good reason for assassination or whatever, fine... but for the most part I think it would serve the game a whole lot better if you just left them bleeding and unconscious or just knocked out or whatever.  Crap, just pretend like you think they are dead or something and leave them alone.  They still have to survive waking up (if they even wake up) and healing without something else getting them before they make it to safety... and probably several hundred coins poorer and/or missing equipment etc.

I'm sure you would want people to give you the same chance, so why don't you use a little RP etiquette and do the same for them.

[Dakkon Black]

I think you are thinking a little...simply, Dakkon. You are equating speaking and emoting to RP, which are not. They are each an element of RP, but just because someone didn't do something that you could see does not mean that are not rolelpaying.

Dood. Don't think I'm on some random spur here. I've TRIED to stick around. Many times. MANY times. EVERY time I lost. EVERY time I died and the end result was them winning. EVERY time I've sat there in the vulnerable position, hoping to get some kind of scene, all I got was the Mantis.

Tell me, what's the mistake in running away from pc's? That's good advice. You can't tell what they are going to do. You can't tell if they are going to emote, or slit your throat.

I don't equate people emoting and speaking to RP, you are correct in that GOOD rp might simply be walking in and slitting your throat. But you can keep that good rp for yourself. I'll take other kinds.

[Nokturn]

To Dakkon: I thought the same after the loss, first. But now I have my new character and after thinking about it a bit, I came to the conclusion that if you roleplay and they don't, you are the winner, despite of what the code says. At least this makes it easier for me.

I will log from now on and discuss with the Imms if I have a reason to complain. Anyway, this is a great game and I play it mainly for the roleplaying experience. And that you can have fun roleplaying a fresh character (without the need to train skills or something of the sort first), soothes my player's soul a bit.

I just hope they had reasons to KILL, cause that character of mine didn't even have a weapon equipped (in fact, he had not ever owned one, focusing on the non-violent aspect of the game).

[Seeker]

I want to mention to all those quick to kill:

Everytime you typed "kill <seeker's PC>" before taking the time to really engage in RP, you have missed out.  

I am not the fastest typer in the world, so it is easy to codedly dominate the scene against me if most players wished, but everytime I have been splashed by PKillers.... every time, they would have profited much, much more by giving me a chance to beg, grovel, barter and spill the beans.

I am insta-splashed LONG before I can offer up the really cool sekrits that would be worth saving my character's life just to hear.  Getting the forty 'sid, the moderate gear, and the feeling of being bad-assed is fine.  But you could have got much, much, much more with just a little patience and creativity.

Most PC's can give up things much more interesting and valuable then their lives and gear if given the chance.


Seeker

[Agent_137]

^^^ he'll do well.

[Djarjak]

I want to mention to all those quick to kill:

Everytime you typed "kill <seeker's PC>" before taking the time to really engage in RP, you have missed out.  

Having played with Seeker, I'll confirm this.

[Dakkon Black]

Seeker's answer to it is exactly the worst part. It's so much more fun to go the other way and draw out your death sentence, and yet I've never ONCE in 5 years of this game been treated to a cool PK.

It's utterly fine to say that they are the ones who are missing out, but I'm the one who just lost how ever many hours went into that char. Not them. I don't know what the solution is, because I hate the idea of insta fleeing everything and everyone.

I hope that more people take up the cause of creating a cool death scene, because it sure is much cooler then what I've gotten.

[Cuusardo]

After coming from hack and slash muds (one of which I IMMed on and TRIED to bring roleplay to) and watched players with hardons for nothing but PKing each other, the PKing in Armageddon doesn't seem nearly as bad.

However, I have to agree with what Seeker said previously.  Give a dude (or a gal) a chance to bargain for his or her life!!  It's much more fun than just splattering someone.

[a non e mouse]

I just feel like people need to back off a little on killing PC's.  If there is a real good reason for assassination or whatever, fine...

...

I'm sure you would want people to give you the same chance...

I understand that people get attached to their characters, but every single one will die. People need to get used to the fact that it probably won't happen when it's convenient for you.

Also, here you're making the assumption that people are killing for no reason, which I doubt quite strongly. Someone somewhere has a reason to kill you, I promise. You say you had a lot of friends? I might want to kill you just to get back at THEM. You're just a quiet woodcrafter who minds his own business. Maybe you're threatening my woodcrafting business. I know it feels good to vent, and it's fine if that's all your doing. But to actually expect people to leave your PC alone, or to resort to insta-fleeing because your character is too important to even -risk- missing out on a chance to rp is just selfish.

[Sokotra]

But to actually expect people to leave your PC alone, or to resort to insta-fleeing because your character is too important to even -risk- missing out on a chance to rp is just selfish.

Just to explain a little more about what I was saying; I wasn't saying to leave people alone - that would be boring.  What I was saying is that when people fight someone and their opponent ends up bleeding and lying on the floor unconscious - let it ride.  Don't sit there like some maniac and continuously pound them into mush. (I don't care if it is IC for you to do so or not)  I just think it would, as I said before, serve the game a little better if people RP'd like they think the person is dead or just leave them for dead, expecting them not to survive or whatever - just to give people that extra little chance of waking up from their coma and making it to safety and allowing for a little more RP in the future.  

I think you would have to agree that if you got pounded and defeated, that it would be much more fun to eventually wake up and crawl your blood and sand-caked arse back to safety and to plot your revenge or to train your way back to health or work your way back up to the level you were at before so you can afford to get drunk in the Gaj when you feel like it rather than just seeing a mantis head and nothing else. It would probably also present alot more fun for the person that left you for dead - the RP possibilities just seem much better.

[Pantoufle]

Also remember if you have a complaint about a player (or staff), you can use the request tool to complain to the staff, and get it handled. In a situation such as this, attaching logs might be a good idea, so we can try and understand the situation better.

In this instance, I don't think the original poster was hoping for his assailants to be "reprimanded".  In fact no one thus far is really saying that to kill without using say/tell/emote/etc. is bad RP that should be punished.

It's not bad RP, it's just tasteless, classless, and unimaginative.

[jhunter]

But to actually expect people to leave your PC alone, or to resort to insta-fleeing because your character is too important to even -risk- missing out on a chance to rp is just selfish.

Just to explain a little more about what I was saying; I wasn't saying to leave people alone - that would be boring.  What I was saying is that when people fight someone and their opponent ends up bleeding and lying on the floor unconscious - let it ride.  Don't sit there like some maniac and continuously pound them into mush. (I don't care if it is IC for you to do so or not) I just think it would, as I said before, serve the game a little better if people RP'd like they think the person is dead or just leave them for dead, expecting them not to survive or whatever - just to give people that extra little chance of waking up from their coma and making it to safety and allowing for a little more RP in the future.  

I think you would have to agree that if you got pounded and defeated, that it would be much more fun to eventually wake up and crawl your blood and sand-caked arse back to safety and to plot your revenge or to train your way back to health or work your way back up to the level you were at before so you can afford to get drunk in the Gaj when you feel like it rather than just seeing a mantis head and nothing else. It would probably also present alot more fun for the person that left you for dead - the RP possibilities just seem much better.

I have to disagree with this part. I don't think it serves the game at all to act OOCly in this sort of situation. Honestly, I see too many people obviously going OOC and holding back from killing someone they -should- kill. This only promotes people thinking that behaving a certain way ICly is acceptable and that noone is going to make them pay the ultimate price for it anyway.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I want to mention to all those quick to kill:

Everytime you typed "kill <seeker's PC>" before taking the time to really engage in RP, you have missed out.  

Having played with Seeker, I'll confirm this.

I'd like to second that.

And as to the origional topic and following discussion, yeah. There -may- be now and then where there's a reason someone has to be killed, quick as possible, and emoting isn't an option. Maybe you didn't see te emotes, there's semotes, hemotes, thinks and feels that not everyone is privvy to. Maybe there was extensive emote/talk/whatever before and after that explained why it was clearly justifiable.

And I don't think anyone really expects the PK-er to do a "classic bad guy mistake" and explain their entire plot, set up an elaborate contraption, then politely leave the room so you can figure out an escape route, and bring their unavoidable demise after you're free.

But now and then, it does seem some people miss the point when they're going to kill someone. There's a lot more options than instant death, and much more amusement/enjoyment to be had in other things. Humiliation, kidnapping, putting the -fear- of death in them without actually doing the act. Giving them a travel cake, a glass of gunky water, and sending them out into the desert with nothing but a loincloth. The sky is the limit, if you have the time to make a good death scene, go for it. Even if it's just a '(smirking wickedly while drawing a sharp blade) "You've <some infraction of law/honor/thiefs code> the last time."

[Djarjak]

Just from a staff perspective, I'll second Tlaloc in saying that the request tool is a great place to mention stuff like this. We often investigate and care.

For me, personally, players who role play the death scene (on both sides, mind you) are a lot more fun to watch and to play with than the people who just kill or just run. There's just so much more plot potential to leave someone alive. Now, granted, if you have a -good- excuse to kill someone, I'm not saying you shouldn't kill them - but you can kill them and RP a little. The two concepts should not be mutually exclusive in the Armageddon environment.

[Tlaloc]

Also remember if you have a complaint about a player (or staff), you can use the request tool to complain to the staff, and get it handled. In a situation such as this, attaching logs might be a good idea, so we can try and understand the situation better.

In this instance, I don't think the original poster was hoping for his assailants to be "reprimanded".  In fact no one thus far is really saying that to kill without using say/tell/emote/etc. is bad RP that should be punished.

It's not bad RP, it's just tasteless, classless, and unimaginative.

Sending in a log or a complaint to the staff is not an automatic reprimand for anyone, unless we actually see something which needs to be reprimanded. There's every chance we'll look at the log, and and think: "Man, that sucks for that guy," and move on. If it happens that someone on staff witnessed the event, they might know how to address it and tell the player "It was perfectly IC, deal with it", or tell the murderers: "You guys were total twinks back there. Shape it up." or even somewhere in between: "Hey, we noticed you guys killed that dude back there without any emotes or anything when he was begging for his life to be spared. What was up with that?".

I think if there is actually something which needs to be addressed (which I think in the eyes of the original poster there must be, since he titled the thread: "Thank you for the worst RP I've ever seen"), I think the Staff have many more tools address individual issues.

It can also help us, the Staff, find potential problems, and possibly nudge people towards becoming better RPers in general.

This isn't to say posting on the GDB isn't cool - it's fine. However, in this case, our hands are kind of tied, since we have no idea who died, who was killed, or what the actual facts are. The GDB is a powerful tool which brings the mass consensus of the playerbase together, and it can hold a lot of weight...however, in some cases (not necessarily this one), some players probably don't care what other players think.

Either way, we wouldn't know unless we had details...which is what the request tool is for.

[Nokturn]

After a several days distance from it, I find that I can live with that ugly, unimaginative murder. I'll log everything from now on - though it's tempting to give yourself an OOC advantage by re-reading passages that you have already forgotten - and will use it to report such abuse/twinking to the staff the next time it happens to me.

However, I would like to present an idea how that problem maybe could be somewhat solved:

As I am one of those who's fingers seems to be tied when in combat (sometimes I'm so OOCly scared that I have a typing-blackout and forget the most basic commands), I have a hard time writing especially when telnet is pounding text down on me like a dog-gone kank.

That puts the roleplayers in a position of a big disadvantage, because while I'm trying hard to type out an interesting emote, the hitpoints keep falling quicker than I can follow and when I finally emote, the prompt reads "Chose thy fate:" already.

My suggestion would be to slow down the combat timers (intervals between hits) or if that would prolong combat (Sun Tzu: "A state has never drawn profit from a prolonged war" :wink: ), maybe at least the first one or two combat minutes.

[Cale_Knight]

I have a hard time writing especially when telnet is pounding text down on me like a dog-gone kank.

There's half your problem. Telnet is the devil. Get yourself a mud client.

[Agent_137]

No shit. Welcome to 1986. Krath.

i prefer mushclient. powerful, annoying nag screen.
simplemu is good, limited in shareware.
wyrmnet is good and simple and free.
gmud is popular but sucks.
alclient has some advocates, but is weird.
and you know what? THere are dozens more. I didn't even mention the powerful liniux based clients. *cough* tintin and tinyfugue *cough*

[Beux]

Jmc for teh win.

[Nokturn]

It's OK, I meant telnet as a general mud client. I use Cantrip most of the time.

[Beux]

It's ok. I get scared to. First time I walked from 'Nak to Tuluk I was tres nervous, I could barely type...and that was just because I thought I was going to get attacked by something super scary.  :?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I shouted for help, I told them to spare my life, I told them I would give them my money, my clothes, just let me live, I would even work and give them all my money I would earn.

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

[Majikal]

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

Another reason I like the new 'dazing' ability.  :twisted:

[jmordetsky]

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

Another reason I like the new 'dazing' ability.  :twisted:

Heh. True.

[Agent_137]

It's ok. I get scared to. First time I walked from 'Nak to Tuluk I was tres nervous, I could barely type...and that was just because I thought I was going to get attacked by something super scary.  :?

one day you will.

:mrgreen:

[Slink]

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but I generally see more of the opposite of this than what the original poster was irritated about.  RPing a persons death is a two way street and, in my experience, it's faaaar more likely that when given a chance a person will spam flee or do something silly rather than RP.  Why?  Because thier characters life is in danger and the players who are willing to accept the loss of thier character just for solid, realistic RP are few and far between.

I've tortured a person to death only to find out they were using the way the whole time to convey unrelated information to a buddy ICly.  In retrosopect I probably should have guessed it when they went to sleep in the middle to get thier stun back.

I've had someone subdued who did nothing other than fail his flee attempt no less than 15 times before finally getting it and running off - the entire time I was trying to interact with him.

I've had players who absolutely refuse to awknowledge any fear or pain -  If you got your fingers cut off, do you REALLY think you're going to laugh it off?  Unless your account name is C.Norris the answer is most likely no.

I've had people locked in a room and tried to make them beg/work for me, only to have them spam open the door thirty times until the guard attempt fails.


So, all that being said - does it justify giving someone the silent mantis head?  Nah.  Unless someone has the power to utterly obliterate you in a single hit, or the potential to destroy everything your character has worked for his entire existence I really don't think theres a good reason to not take the chance that you'll eventually find SOMEONE who wants to die like a champ.  I've killed a *lot* of players and had a lot get away.  In all those times, I don't think I've had a single escapee come back and bite me in the ass.

If your killing someone and it's possible - give them a chance to at least get one more session of good RP out of thier character.
If your trapped, spent and about to die - for God's sake, let the person killing you do it with some style.  You don't have to love it, but the guy DID just win - lose with dignity.


To Seeker:  I hope I run into you because all your base will belong to me.
To Dakkon: I'll get to you eventually, its only a matter of time.
To Tuluk: DIAF.

Disclaimer: I have done the silent mantis head before and usually wish I hadn't afterwards.  I will say that the majority of PK's I've tried my best to do with style and give the other player one last Kudo.

[Earendur]

Lemme ask what you all think of this situation, that happened on one of my old characters during my second stint, over a year ago:

Code Select Expand

The guy walks in from the west.

The guy looks down at you.

The guy draws an obsidian longsword.

*combat ensues*


What's that?  Not a single emote?  So with lines of combat flying by I notice my health steadily dropping.  I want to throw out *some* emote before I flee, but I need to type it so fast that it just comes out as "gets up and runs."

Am I supposed to feel guilty that I didn't stick around and let this guy slash me to ribbons?  I understand that killing someone who doesn't see it coming would be a fairly easy thing.  If I'm sitting down on a cot, and someone takes a swing at me with a bat, gameover.  So am I the bad guy for getting up, dropping a three word emote and then fleeing?

[a foreign presence]

As a small note to the person who said they had trouble typing when under attack, I'd suggest making an alias for drawing your weapons and one for fleeing.

alias z draw sword
alias x flee

That might make it easier.

[Hymwen]

What's that? Not a single emote? So with lines of combat flying by I notice my health steadily dropping. I want to throw out *some* emote before I flee, but I need to type it so fast that it just comes out as "gets up and runs."

Am I supposed to feel guilty that I didn't stick around and let this guy slash me to ribbons? I understand that killing someone who doesn't see it coming would be a fairly easy thing. If I'm sitting down on a cot, and someone takes a swing at me with a bat, gameover. So am I the bad guy for getting up, dropping a three word emote and then fleeing?

My take on it:

If you're attacked out of the blue with no warning, I don't expect you to emote and I won't hold it against you if you flee right away.

If you're in a situation where you see the fight coming, where you pretty much know it'll end up with a brawl or bloodsport, I'll be disappointed if you show no RP reaction at all once the fight starts.

If you're going to kill someone for a specific reason which you know before you even meet them, you should show the curtesy of preparing something, even something as simple as aliasing an emote that says "emote Upon spotting ~target, @ draws ^me weapons and charges towards !target".

If you meet some stranger that you decide to attack with no previous planning, I assume it's because your PC has a reason to. "This is what the Tan Muark does to invaders!" or "Gimme all your 'sid!" or something to show that you have a motive. If you don't have a motive, should you be attacking at all?

[Sokotra]

I have to disagree with this part. I don't think it serves the game at all to act OOCly in this sort of situation. Honestly, I see too many people obviously going OOC and holding back from killing someone they -should- kill. This only promotes people thinking that behaving a certain way ICly is acceptable and that noone is going to make them pay the ultimate price for it anyway.

Okay, then look at it this way...  ROLE PLAY killing the person, if it is IC for you to do so.  That's fine.  But as I said, for the sake of the game I think that if you can avoid actually 'codedly' killing someone then it is all the better.  Heck, even if you are a deranged madman that would sit there and repeatedly pound the person to a bloody red pulp even after they are already incapacitated - try emoting stomping and smashing them - whatever.  Instead of "mercy off; kill man", why not emote stabbing them several times and just RP like you thought they were dead... yet they somehow survive. (again, it would still be a fat chance that they survive, wake up and make it to safety much of the time)

Wish up, write a submission or whatever saying "Hey, if JoeSchmoe survives and wakes up from that pounding I just gave him then he should be disfigured badly or have lost his hearing because I just reamed his ears out with my stiletto."  I don't know what the protocol would be for doing something like this, I don't have tons of time to play.. which is probably one reason I'm arguing this point.  Personally, I just turn mercy on when I'm fighting someone and take their loot and at least give them a chance to role play seeking revenge against me or moving to another part of the known world to avoid me.  Use your imagination... IC doesn't always mean the coded response to your prompted command action.

[jhunter]

I still disagree. Killing someone can create plots just as easily as letting them live. My rule is and always will be, do whatever is IC for my character. In fact, it aggravates the holy living crap out of me when someone is obviously trying not to kill someone because OOCly they don't want to kill a pc. This is just as poor rp as killing without any IC reason to IMO.

[Sokotra]

What did I just say?  Role play trying to kill them and failing instead of using the code to "win".  As the staff has said in the past... don't always try to "win".  I'm not saying I'm perfect or even a good RP'er myself, but there are certain things I do for the benefit of other players and the game and still stay IC.  I think this is one of those cases.  If someone is irritating you because they RP trying to kill someone and they don't succeed then I suppose they are doing a poor job at RP'ing the situation or you are just OOCly saying "Hey, they didn't type 'mercy off; kill elf' therefore they are irritating the crap out of me and are role-playing poorly".  That's a sorry excuse as far as I'm concerned.  I don't buy it.

[jhunter]

What did I just say?  Role play trying to kill them and failing instead of using the code to "win".  As the staff has said in the past... don't always try to "win".  I'm not saying I'm perfect or even a good RP'er myself, but there are certain things I do for the benefit of other players and the game and still stay IC.  I think this is one of those cases.  If someone is irritating you because they RP trying to kill someone and they don't succeed then I suppose they are doing a poor job at RP'ing the situation or you are just OOCly saying "Hey, they didn't type 'mercy off; kill elf' therefore they are irritating the crap out of me and are role-playing poorly".  That's a sorry excuse as far as I'm concerned.  I don't buy it.

I think your reasoning is equally sorry. Just because you're squeamish about killing a pc doesn't mean anyone that does is playing poorly. You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying those that AVOID IT ENTIRELY because they don't want to kill a pc.
And yes, there are times when making the OOC decision to pretend to kill them is actually more harm than good. If you don't kill them, you put an end to several threads of story that would have come about from their death actually happening. What I'm saying is there is a middle ground. You appear to be saying "avoiding killing pcs at all costs, just pretend to so you can be nice OOCly". That's just as fucking wrong as killing everyone that you wouldn't ICly kill.

[Agent_137]

now i remember why i detest the forums.

makes a circle jerk look enticing.

[bardbard#4]

now i remember why i detest the forums.

makes a circle jerk look enticing.

Holy god...I just peed a little bit while laughing.

[spawnloser]

If there is a middle ground, argue for that.  You seem to be arguing the other way entirely, however, jhunter.

Don't kill someone when it is IC for your character to let that someone live.  Don't let someone live when it is IC for your character to kill that someone.

Roleplay.  Make a scene.  Enjoy it, and try to make everyone else in it enjoy it as well.  That should be the goal.

[jhunter]

Don't kill someone when it is IC for your character to let that someone live. Don't let someone live when it is IC for your character to kill that someone.

That is exactly what I was saying. That -is- the middle ground.

[Sokotra]

Don't kill someone when it is IC for your character to let that someone live. Don't let someone live when it is IC for your character to kill that someone.

That is exactly what I was saying. That -is- the middle ground.

Well, I hate to continue the circle jerk - because I'm not going to argue against something I agree with.  If you read the rest of my posts pertaining to this thread then you might see what I mean without taking any of my statements out of this entire context.  But anyway, I don't blame you for not reading the entire thread because I do the same thing...

Yeah... if it's IC for you to kill someone, fine - do it.  If it's not, then don't.  Great.  We got that down.  My main point is that you can let yourself lose and not use the OOC knowledge that the PC won't die unless you codedly hear that beep and type "kill <person>" until they turn into an innanimate object containing gear and coins.  You could, alternatively, RP that your character thinks the bloody mass lying on the ground is dead and just steal some of their crap or whatever and be on your way "thinking" in RP terms that your character just killed someone.  Okay, I've already probably said this 500 times so I'm done...
/endcirclejerk

[jhunter]

Don't kill someone when it is IC for your character to let that someone live. Don't let someone live when it is IC for your character to kill that someone.

That is exactly what I was saying. That -is- the middle ground.

Well, I hate to continue the circle jerk - because I'm not going to argue against something I agree with.  If you read the rest of my posts pertaining to this thread then you might see what I mean without taking any of my statements out of this entire context.  But anyway, I don't blame you for not reading the entire thread because I do the same thing...

Yeah... if it's IC for you to kill someone, fine - do it.  If it's not, then don't.  Great.  We got that down.  My main point is that you can let yourself lose and not use the OOC knowledge that the PC won't die unless you codedly hear that beep and type "kill <person>" until they turn into an innanimate object containing gear and coins.  You could, alternatively, RP that your character thinks the bloody mass lying on the ground is dead and just steal some of their crap or whatever and be on your way "thinking" in RP terms that your character just killed someone.  Okay, I've already probably said this 500 times so I'm done...
/endcirclejerk

Right, I understand that. I'm just saying that it's just as cheesy to intentionally do that -every- time as it is to go out of your way to make certain they are codedly dead -every- time. It should depend on the pc your playing not just a detached OOC reasoning to either PK someone or to avoid PK'ing someone. I've done what you are talking about a few times. I've also done the opposite. It depends on the pc I'm playing, that should be the only deciding factor.

I'm done as well.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think that people should realize that not all problems need to be solved by killing, and their characters should realize it as well.  You control what's IC for your character, and you are fully capable of making an enjoyable character that has been designed to foster interaction and plotlines, rather than destroy them.

Can killing someone create interaction and plotlines?  It can.  More often then not, however, it will only remove them.

Does that mean people shouldn't kill each other?

Hell no!  They should do it at every opportunity!  It's a harsh world, and when people feel threatened, competed with, or annoyed, they may well decide to end the life of the perpetrator.  That's the game-world, and there's no need to change it.

I'm not saying people shouldn't kill each other.  I am saying that people should find a middle ground more often.

I see a lot of killing.  I've never seen someone purposefully hire an incompetent assassin who they know won't succeed, just so the target gets the message.  I often see people threaten to kill others.  I rarely see these threats accompanied with the victim being dragged to an alley and beat the shit out of just to ensure that they KNOW the threat can and will be carried out.  When it comes time to kill, leaders are often targetted.  The leader doesn't often recieve one of his underling's head on a plate instead.

It's these little things that will add to plotlines and the game-world far more than killing.

[creeper386]

In response to ERS' post there, which has some fine ideas. It seems whenever people try to do this sort of thing, and ussually someone gets involved that probably shouldn't just because of some sort of brief friendship or something like that.

Way too often I've seen nobles bend down and turn their power and coin to squash someone just because of a threat to one of their distant underlings or even worse someone that like above, is just a commoner friend or what not. Which IMO nobles should be, even in Tuluk, but more so in Allanak, the sort to let the underlings and such, deal with whatever shit they stepped in.

For the most part there just sometimes isn't the playerbase to allow the varying social layers to avoid mixing, just because the upper layers do rely on the lower PCs, even though they shouldn't be that important most the time.

Personally know, I've tried things like this before, using stuff that doesn't involve outright death even though it was within grasp, and I think it's terrific fun. I've never codedly avoiding killing someone and let my character think he succeeded, but it's been awhile since I've played a character that would do killing stuff, and I don't remember a mercy code in place. When did that go in?

Anyways, everyone has good points, but most the time you should probably not expect your characters to have some sort of grand, well RPed death. As you'll probably just get disapointed. Heck, I'm sad when my characters get killed by NPCs because of the lack of interaction, but I doubt alot of code or anything is going to be implemented to stop that, eh?

[Nokturn]

Just to bring the thread back to it's original intention:

I didn't say my character didn't deserve his death. A simple commoner, without a weapon, should not go out in the desert alone (even if it was justified ICly, he needed to get some materials from there), he should have hired a mercenary to guard him or bought the material from someone.

Objectively, that character deserved death and it was a mistake on my part to go out in the desert. However, the character deserved a far more interesting and satisfying death, like the guys knocking him to the ground (I would have RPed with it, no need for code there) and harassing him a bit, maybe explaining their motives, or if it was meant to be a secret kill, emote that somehow.

[Vessol]

I agree with Nokturn. I will not specify at all IC, but lately I have died a lot of unroleplayed raider deaths.
While I see the IC reason, it is a bit tiring. Especialy seeing all the same stories if the raiders seem to tell me their story. Just my two sids.

[bloodfromstone]

This is sort of an aside, but whatever...

I remember when I was the newbest of newbies I saw a fight break out. Both of the combants emoted so well and so interesting that I was blown away. When one of them fled, he emoted stumbling back off of a hard parry, and I don't think I'll ever forget how vividly I saw that scene. I was so intimidated and awed by the writing and RP.

Sadly, this is very, very few and far between, but it was my first experience with pvp in Arm, and I think we should all strive to be as awesome as those two, whoever you were.

[Mr.B]

Am I the only person who misses the days when raiders plagued the desert, when a templar would flay, torture, or murder you for any reason he decided to make up at the moment? Days when gith warbands would eat the playerbase of Armageddon on a regular basis, and fear really permeated the city-living society, that the desert was a totally harsh place. When we, the GDB populace shouted down the buff gith because no-one likes a "boring" code death and shouted for a PC raiding presence. Fact is, no-one likes to lose their hard fought, or played characters and that's understandable, but grow a thick skin because really, the only RP you can control is your own. When a killer goes and murders things left and right with no RP, the game world takes care of them with time as well. It's the nature of Death on Armageddon.. from the moment you make your character, it's coming to get you. Be prepared at all times to let go of your awesome, funnest character to date because you know what? The game world is so huge, and there are so many options and avenues of play that you are certain to find yourself in other absolutely fantastic roles, and really exciting plots and webs of intrigue. Go with the B's blessing.

[Barzalene]

Am I the only person who misses the days when raiders plagued the desert, when a templar would flay, torture, or murder you for any reason he decided to make up at the moment? Days when gith warbands would eat the playerbase of Armageddon on a regular basis, and fear really permeated the city-living society, that the desert was a totally harsh place. When we, the GDB populace shouted down the buff gith because no-one likes a "boring" code death and shouted for a PC raiding presence. Fact is, no-one likes to lose their hard fought, or played characters and that's understandable, but grow a thick skin because really, the only RP you can control is your own. When a killer goes and murders things left and right with no RP, the game world takes care of them with time as well. It's the nature of Death on Armageddon.. from the moment you make your character, it's coming to get you. Be prepared at all times to let go of your awesome, funnest character to date because you know what? The game world is so huge, and there are so many options and avenues of play that you are certain to find yourself in other absolutely fantastic roles, and really exciting plots and webs of intrigue. Go with the B's blessing.

I too like it scary.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Objectively, that character deserved death and it was a mistake on my part to go out in the desert. However, the character deserved a far more interesting and satisfying death, like the guys knocking him to the ground (I would have RPed with it, no need for code there) and harassing him a bit, maybe explaining their motives, or if it was meant to be a secret kill, emote that somehow.

Responding to the part in bold:  No you didn't.  Make a stupid mistake, and you get a stupid death.  Should they have emoted?  It would have been nice and definitely indicative of a mature player, but you can't expect them to.  While it is exasperating to be killed by someone who doesn't emote, it's every bit as exasperating to enter a room in the wilderness, and try to get out a say or emote, only to find that in the process the other party has typed out three direction commands and powerwalked to safety.  (A scenario that often happens even when you had no intention of attacking).  Furthermore, if they were planning on killing you anyway, why should they have bothered to explain their motives?  We're not playing CheesySpyMovie MUD.

In all my many years of playing Armageddon, I've discovered one thing.  Deaths suck.  Some people think that if an emote was attached to a death it wouldn't suck, and I humbly disagree.  When you die, you will rarely understand why your character is killed.  It will often seem that you were killed by a griefer, a twink, or some asshole that decided that killing your PC for arbitrary reasons would be a great way to add more conflict to the game.

To echo others sentiments, and repeat something that I've said many times before, don't focus on your character's death.  Remember how much fun you had with them during their life.  The latter will always be far more interesting.

[corona]

Am I the only person who misses the days when raiders plagued the desert, when a templar would flay, torture, or murder you for any reason he decided to make up at the moment? Days when gith warbands would eat the playerbase of Armageddon on a regular basis, and fear really permeated the city-living society, that the desert was a totally harsh place. When we, the GDB populace shouted down the buff gith because no-one likes a "boring" code death and shouted for a PC raiding presence. Fact is, no-one likes to lose their hard fought, or played characters and that's understandable, but grow a thick skin because really, the only RP you can control is your own. When a killer goes and murders things left and right with no RP, the game world takes care of them with time as well. It's the nature of Death on Armageddon.. from the moment you make your character, it's coming to get you. Be prepared at all times to let go of your awesome, funnest character to date because you know what? The game world is so huge, and there are so many options and avenues of play that you are certain to find yourself in other absolutely fantastic roles, and really exciting plots and webs of intrigue. Go with the B's blessing.

I miss it too! I agree, Mr.B.. preach on, brother man!

[UnderSeven]

I even kind of agree the desert got a little to safe if you really knew what you were doing.  But what is the alternative?  Mul raiders again? I'm much more in favor of pcs enforcing harshness then npcs.  Afterall pcs offer little to no rp, but an npc is most certainly going to without a staff to animate it.

[Vessol]

Real bands of raiders and groups of anti-raiders would be pretty fun I would think, I have seen both also which can have some great RP.
The only reason I was complaining is that I lost two characters IC within 24 hours, I nill go into no more details, plus OOC fustrations, I was kind of upset, so sorry about that. I agree that sometimes the desert is a bit too safe, especialy if you stay on the road.

[bloodfromstone]

Personally, I prefer more longer lived, powerful, established PCs that can continue to affect and drive things than everyone dying to templars and NPCs every day. While I understand the desire for a harsher atmosphere, the idea of people dying in truckloads every day really would cut into the personal side of RP. It's hard to develop loves, friendships, hatreds, and betrayals if the PC turnover rate is too high.
Personally, I like it how it is, for the most part. Stupid mistakes get people killed quickly. Political intrigue gets people killed pretty fast, too. But if someone is careful and/or clever (or boring), they can live for a very long time.

[Red Sunrise]

Personally, I prefer more longer lived, powerful, established PCs that can continue to affect and drive things than everyone dying to templars and NPCs every day. While I understand the desire for a harsher atmosphere, the idea of people dying in truckloads every day really would cut into the personal side of RP. It's hard to develop loves, friendships, hatreds, and betrayals if the PC turnover rate is too high.

I strongly agree with this. The death of just one established PC can really leave a void in a clan or area, and suck the life out of plotlines. If you have a reason to kill somebody, go for it, but think things through... I just hate to see meaningless deaths.

[Halaster]

I also agree that it would be nicer if the harshness of the desert (or most of it at least) came from PC raiders and the like.  The only problem with relying on PC's is that it becomes sporadic at best with the size of our playerbase.  Most people actually manage to get past PC raiders because of their inability to be going at it as consistently as NPC's.  I'm not saying that means we should stick a billion NPC's out there, just... food for thought.

[Majikal]

I also agree that it would be nicer if the harshness of the desert (or most of it at least) came from PC raiders and the like.  The only problem with relying on PC's is that it becomes sporadic at best with the size of our playerbase.

I agree, and lately I've seen some great attempts at raiding which made me smile. As for the complains of quick and non-narrative deaths, sometimes you really just don't have the choice. Getting the jump on someone is sometimes your only advantage. Yes it sounds shitty, but it's very true.. am I gonna walk up to that bigass mean sorceror, or am I gonna sneak up and come out of nowhere with no clue on what's going o n? Often, the only text my target sees is 'a sharpass arrow flies in from the wtf' and beep.
Yay for raiders, yay for harshness,  yea for beefy stompy creatures!

Your char dies, whine for ten minutes and make another one. All kinds of crazy virtual npc skins to hop into, I doubt anyone has played what will turn out to be their favorite character in the end yet.

[Cuusardo]

Wars between raider groups, and wars between raiders and antiraiders would rock.

[flurry]

As for the original post, of course it's impossible to know what roleplay may have preceded or followed that scene, but yeah it would be disappointing to lose a character that way.

I think it often does come down to a balance between the objective to "win" the encounter and the overall effort to roleplay.   Are you willing to sacrifice roleplay for the sake of the win?  Are you willing to sacrifice the win for the sake of roleplay?   Not that it has to be one or the other, but I think sometimes people err on the side going for the win.

I know I made that mistake, and regret it, but I did learn from it.

On the topic of raiders, I think they can be great or can be a real problem.  I don't have the direct experience, on either side, to add much to the discussion, but I'd only hope that raiders try to give more interaction to their victims than an NPC would.