Thank you for the worst RP I've ever seen

[Sokotra]

But to actually expect people to leave your PC alone, or to resort to insta-fleeing because your character is too important to even -risk- missing out on a chance to rp is just selfish.

Just to explain a little more about what I was saying; I wasn't saying to leave people alone - that would be boring.  What I was saying is that when people fight someone and their opponent ends up bleeding and lying on the floor unconscious - let it ride.  Don't sit there like some maniac and continuously pound them into mush. (I don't care if it is IC for you to do so or not)  I just think it would, as I said before, serve the game a little better if people RP'd like they think the person is dead or just leave them for dead, expecting them not to survive or whatever - just to give people that extra little chance of waking up from their coma and making it to safety and allowing for a little more RP in the future.  

I think you would have to agree that if you got pounded and defeated, that it would be much more fun to eventually wake up and crawl your blood and sand-caked arse back to safety and to plot your revenge or to train your way back to health or work your way back up to the level you were at before so you can afford to get drunk in the Gaj when you feel like it rather than just seeing a mantis head and nothing else. It would probably also present alot more fun for the person that left you for dead - the RP possibilities just seem much better.

[Pantoufle]

Also remember if you have a complaint about a player (or staff), you can use the request tool to complain to the staff, and get it handled. In a situation such as this, attaching logs might be a good idea, so we can try and understand the situation better.

In this instance, I don't think the original poster was hoping for his assailants to be "reprimanded".  In fact no one thus far is really saying that to kill without using say/tell/emote/etc. is bad RP that should be punished.

It's not bad RP, it's just tasteless, classless, and unimaginative.

[jhunter]

But to actually expect people to leave your PC alone, or to resort to insta-fleeing because your character is too important to even -risk- missing out on a chance to rp is just selfish.

Just to explain a little more about what I was saying; I wasn't saying to leave people alone - that would be boring.  What I was saying is that when people fight someone and their opponent ends up bleeding and lying on the floor unconscious - let it ride.  Don't sit there like some maniac and continuously pound them into mush. (I don't care if it is IC for you to do so or not) I just think it would, as I said before, serve the game a little better if people RP'd like they think the person is dead or just leave them for dead, expecting them not to survive or whatever - just to give people that extra little chance of waking up from their coma and making it to safety and allowing for a little more RP in the future.  

I think you would have to agree that if you got pounded and defeated, that it would be much more fun to eventually wake up and crawl your blood and sand-caked arse back to safety and to plot your revenge or to train your way back to health or work your way back up to the level you were at before so you can afford to get drunk in the Gaj when you feel like it rather than just seeing a mantis head and nothing else. It would probably also present alot more fun for the person that left you for dead - the RP possibilities just seem much better.

I have to disagree with this part. I don't think it serves the game at all to act OOCly in this sort of situation. Honestly, I see too many people obviously going OOC and holding back from killing someone they -should- kill. This only promotes people thinking that behaving a certain way ICly is acceptable and that noone is going to make them pay the ultimate price for it anyway.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I want to mention to all those quick to kill:

Everytime you typed "kill <seeker's PC>" before taking the time to really engage in RP, you have missed out.  

Having played with Seeker, I'll confirm this.

I'd like to second that.

And as to the origional topic and following discussion, yeah. There -may- be now and then where there's a reason someone has to be killed, quick as possible, and emoting isn't an option. Maybe you didn't see te emotes, there's semotes, hemotes, thinks and feels that not everyone is privvy to. Maybe there was extensive emote/talk/whatever before and after that explained why it was clearly justifiable.

And I don't think anyone really expects the PK-er to do a "classic bad guy mistake" and explain their entire plot, set up an elaborate contraption, then politely leave the room so you can figure out an escape route, and bring their unavoidable demise after you're free.

But now and then, it does seem some people miss the point when they're going to kill someone. There's a lot more options than instant death, and much more amusement/enjoyment to be had in other things. Humiliation, kidnapping, putting the -fear- of death in them without actually doing the act. Giving them a travel cake, a glass of gunky water, and sending them out into the desert with nothing but a loincloth. The sky is the limit, if you have the time to make a good death scene, go for it. Even if it's just a '(smirking wickedly while drawing a sharp blade) "You've <some infraction of law/honor/thiefs code> the last time."

[Djarjak]

Just from a staff perspective, I'll second Tlaloc in saying that the request tool is a great place to mention stuff like this. We often investigate and care.

For me, personally, players who role play the death scene (on both sides, mind you) are a lot more fun to watch and to play with than the people who just kill or just run. There's just so much more plot potential to leave someone alive. Now, granted, if you have a -good- excuse to kill someone, I'm not saying you shouldn't kill them - but you can kill them and RP a little. The two concepts should not be mutually exclusive in the Armageddon environment.

[Tlaloc]

Also remember if you have a complaint about a player (or staff), you can use the request tool to complain to the staff, and get it handled. In a situation such as this, attaching logs might be a good idea, so we can try and understand the situation better.

In this instance, I don't think the original poster was hoping for his assailants to be "reprimanded".  In fact no one thus far is really saying that to kill without using say/tell/emote/etc. is bad RP that should be punished.

It's not bad RP, it's just tasteless, classless, and unimaginative.

Sending in a log or a complaint to the staff is not an automatic reprimand for anyone, unless we actually see something which needs to be reprimanded. There's every chance we'll look at the log, and and think: "Man, that sucks for that guy," and move on. If it happens that someone on staff witnessed the event, they might know how to address it and tell the player "It was perfectly IC, deal with it", or tell the murderers: "You guys were total twinks back there. Shape it up." or even somewhere in between: "Hey, we noticed you guys killed that dude back there without any emotes or anything when he was begging for his life to be spared. What was up with that?".

I think if there is actually something which needs to be addressed (which I think in the eyes of the original poster there must be, since he titled the thread: "Thank you for the worst RP I've ever seen"), I think the Staff have many more tools address individual issues.

It can also help us, the Staff, find potential problems, and possibly nudge people towards becoming better RPers in general.

This isn't to say posting on the GDB isn't cool - it's fine. However, in this case, our hands are kind of tied, since we have no idea who died, who was killed, or what the actual facts are. The GDB is a powerful tool which brings the mass consensus of the playerbase together, and it can hold a lot of weight...however, in some cases (not necessarily this one), some players probably don't care what other players think.

Either way, we wouldn't know unless we had details...which is what the request tool is for.

[Nokturn]

After a several days distance from it, I find that I can live with that ugly, unimaginative murder. I'll log everything from now on - though it's tempting to give yourself an OOC advantage by re-reading passages that you have already forgotten - and will use it to report such abuse/twinking to the staff the next time it happens to me.

However, I would like to present an idea how that problem maybe could be somewhat solved:

As I am one of those who's fingers seems to be tied when in combat (sometimes I'm so OOCly scared that I have a typing-blackout and forget the most basic commands), I have a hard time writing especially when telnet is pounding text down on me like a dog-gone kank.

That puts the roleplayers in a position of a big disadvantage, because while I'm trying hard to type out an interesting emote, the hitpoints keep falling quicker than I can follow and when I finally emote, the prompt reads "Chose thy fate:" already.

My suggestion would be to slow down the combat timers (intervals between hits) or if that would prolong combat (Sun Tzu: "A state has never drawn profit from a prolonged war" :wink: ), maybe at least the first one or two combat minutes.

[Cale_Knight]

I have a hard time writing especially when telnet is pounding text down on me like a dog-gone kank.

There's half your problem. Telnet is the devil. Get yourself a mud client.

[Agent_137]

No shit. Welcome to 1986. Krath.

i prefer mushclient. powerful, annoying nag screen.
simplemu is good, limited in shareware.
wyrmnet is good and simple and free.
gmud is popular but sucks.
alclient has some advocates, but is weird.
and you know what? THere are dozens more. I didn't even mention the powerful liniux based clients. *cough* tintin and tinyfugue *cough*

[Beux]

Jmc for teh win.

[Nokturn]

It's OK, I meant telnet as a general mud client. I use Cantrip most of the time.

[Beux]

It's ok. I get scared to. First time I walked from 'Nak to Tuluk I was tres nervous, I could barely type...and that was just because I thought I was going to get attacked by something super scary.  :?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I shouted for help, I told them to spare my life, I told them I would give them my money, my clothes, just let me live, I would even work and give them all my money I would earn.

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

[Majikal]

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

Another reason I like the new 'dazing' ability.  :twisted:

[jmordetsky]

Too bad you didn't run.  It's easy and effective, to such an extent that I feel it makes killing too hard in certain circumstances.  But hey, it works.

Another reason I like the new 'dazing' ability.  :twisted:

Heh. True.

[Agent_137]

It's ok. I get scared to. First time I walked from 'Nak to Tuluk I was tres nervous, I could barely type...and that was just because I thought I was going to get attacked by something super scary.  :?

one day you will.

:mrgreen:

[Slink]

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but I generally see more of the opposite of this than what the original poster was irritated about.  RPing a persons death is a two way street and, in my experience, it's faaaar more likely that when given a chance a person will spam flee or do something silly rather than RP.  Why?  Because thier characters life is in danger and the players who are willing to accept the loss of thier character just for solid, realistic RP are few and far between.

I've tortured a person to death only to find out they were using the way the whole time to convey unrelated information to a buddy ICly.  In retrosopect I probably should have guessed it when they went to sleep in the middle to get thier stun back.

I've had someone subdued who did nothing other than fail his flee attempt no less than 15 times before finally getting it and running off - the entire time I was trying to interact with him.

I've had players who absolutely refuse to awknowledge any fear or pain -  If you got your fingers cut off, do you REALLY think you're going to laugh it off?  Unless your account name is C.Norris the answer is most likely no.

I've had people locked in a room and tried to make them beg/work for me, only to have them spam open the door thirty times until the guard attempt fails.


So, all that being said - does it justify giving someone the silent mantis head?  Nah.  Unless someone has the power to utterly obliterate you in a single hit, or the potential to destroy everything your character has worked for his entire existence I really don't think theres a good reason to not take the chance that you'll eventually find SOMEONE who wants to die like a champ.  I've killed a *lot* of players and had a lot get away.  In all those times, I don't think I've had a single escapee come back and bite me in the ass.

If your killing someone and it's possible - give them a chance to at least get one more session of good RP out of thier character.
If your trapped, spent and about to die - for God's sake, let the person killing you do it with some style.  You don't have to love it, but the guy DID just win - lose with dignity.


To Seeker:  I hope I run into you because all your base will belong to me.
To Dakkon: I'll get to you eventually, its only a matter of time.
To Tuluk: DIAF.

Disclaimer: I have done the silent mantis head before and usually wish I hadn't afterwards.  I will say that the majority of PK's I've tried my best to do with style and give the other player one last Kudo.

[Earendur]

Lemme ask what you all think of this situation, that happened on one of my old characters during my second stint, over a year ago:

Code Select Expand

The guy walks in from the west.

The guy looks down at you.

The guy draws an obsidian longsword.

*combat ensues*


What's that?  Not a single emote?  So with lines of combat flying by I notice my health steadily dropping.  I want to throw out *some* emote before I flee, but I need to type it so fast that it just comes out as "gets up and runs."

Am I supposed to feel guilty that I didn't stick around and let this guy slash me to ribbons?  I understand that killing someone who doesn't see it coming would be a fairly easy thing.  If I'm sitting down on a cot, and someone takes a swing at me with a bat, gameover.  So am I the bad guy for getting up, dropping a three word emote and then fleeing?

[a foreign presence]

As a small note to the person who said they had trouble typing when under attack, I'd suggest making an alias for drawing your weapons and one for fleeing.

alias z draw sword
alias x flee

That might make it easier.

[Hymwen]

What's that? Not a single emote? So with lines of combat flying by I notice my health steadily dropping. I want to throw out *some* emote before I flee, but I need to type it so fast that it just comes out as "gets up and runs."

Am I supposed to feel guilty that I didn't stick around and let this guy slash me to ribbons? I understand that killing someone who doesn't see it coming would be a fairly easy thing. If I'm sitting down on a cot, and someone takes a swing at me with a bat, gameover. So am I the bad guy for getting up, dropping a three word emote and then fleeing?

My take on it:

If you're attacked out of the blue with no warning, I don't expect you to emote and I won't hold it against you if you flee right away.

If you're in a situation where you see the fight coming, where you pretty much know it'll end up with a brawl or bloodsport, I'll be disappointed if you show no RP reaction at all once the fight starts.

If you're going to kill someone for a specific reason which you know before you even meet them, you should show the curtesy of preparing something, even something as simple as aliasing an emote that says "emote Upon spotting ~target, @ draws ^me weapons and charges towards !target".

If you meet some stranger that you decide to attack with no previous planning, I assume it's because your PC has a reason to. "This is what the Tan Muark does to invaders!" or "Gimme all your 'sid!" or something to show that you have a motive. If you don't have a motive, should you be attacking at all?

[Sokotra]

I have to disagree with this part. I don't think it serves the game at all to act OOCly in this sort of situation. Honestly, I see too many people obviously going OOC and holding back from killing someone they -should- kill. This only promotes people thinking that behaving a certain way ICly is acceptable and that noone is going to make them pay the ultimate price for it anyway.

Okay, then look at it this way...  ROLE PLAY killing the person, if it is IC for you to do so.  That's fine.  But as I said, for the sake of the game I think that if you can avoid actually 'codedly' killing someone then it is all the better.  Heck, even if you are a deranged madman that would sit there and repeatedly pound the person to a bloody red pulp even after they are already incapacitated - try emoting stomping and smashing them - whatever.  Instead of "mercy off; kill man", why not emote stabbing them several times and just RP like you thought they were dead... yet they somehow survive. (again, it would still be a fat chance that they survive, wake up and make it to safety much of the time)

Wish up, write a submission or whatever saying "Hey, if JoeSchmoe survives and wakes up from that pounding I just gave him then he should be disfigured badly or have lost his hearing because I just reamed his ears out with my stiletto."  I don't know what the protocol would be for doing something like this, I don't have tons of time to play.. which is probably one reason I'm arguing this point.  Personally, I just turn mercy on when I'm fighting someone and take their loot and at least give them a chance to role play seeking revenge against me or moving to another part of the known world to avoid me.  Use your imagination... IC doesn't always mean the coded response to your prompted command action.

[jhunter]

I still disagree. Killing someone can create plots just as easily as letting them live. My rule is and always will be, do whatever is IC for my character. In fact, it aggravates the holy living crap out of me when someone is obviously trying not to kill someone because OOCly they don't want to kill a pc. This is just as poor rp as killing without any IC reason to IMO.

[Sokotra]

What did I just say?  Role play trying to kill them and failing instead of using the code to "win".  As the staff has said in the past... don't always try to "win".  I'm not saying I'm perfect or even a good RP'er myself, but there are certain things I do for the benefit of other players and the game and still stay IC.  I think this is one of those cases.  If someone is irritating you because they RP trying to kill someone and they don't succeed then I suppose they are doing a poor job at RP'ing the situation or you are just OOCly saying "Hey, they didn't type 'mercy off; kill elf' therefore they are irritating the crap out of me and are role-playing poorly".  That's a sorry excuse as far as I'm concerned.  I don't buy it.

[jhunter]

What did I just say?  Role play trying to kill them and failing instead of using the code to "win".  As the staff has said in the past... don't always try to "win".  I'm not saying I'm perfect or even a good RP'er myself, but there are certain things I do for the benefit of other players and the game and still stay IC.  I think this is one of those cases.  If someone is irritating you because they RP trying to kill someone and they don't succeed then I suppose they are doing a poor job at RP'ing the situation or you are just OOCly saying "Hey, they didn't type 'mercy off; kill elf' therefore they are irritating the crap out of me and are role-playing poorly".  That's a sorry excuse as far as I'm concerned.  I don't buy it.

I think your reasoning is equally sorry. Just because you're squeamish about killing a pc doesn't mean anyone that does is playing poorly. You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying those that AVOID IT ENTIRELY because they don't want to kill a pc.
And yes, there are times when making the OOC decision to pretend to kill them is actually more harm than good. If you don't kill them, you put an end to several threads of story that would have come about from their death actually happening. What I'm saying is there is a middle ground. You appear to be saying "avoiding killing pcs at all costs, just pretend to so you can be nice OOCly". That's just as fucking wrong as killing everyone that you wouldn't ICly kill.

[Agent_137]

now i remember why i detest the forums.

makes a circle jerk look enticing.