Multiple currencies.

[RunningMountain]

Whadaya say? We can have ceramics for the desert elf tribes. Obsidian coins for allanakis and wooden chips with the sun kings sunburst on 'em fer dem tulukis.

[Kennath]

I think it would be awesome. Why do Tulukis have Allanaki coins anyway?
-Ken

[Irulan]

I think it would be awesome. Why do Tulukis have Allanaki coins anyway?
-Ken

This has always bothered me. Why would they want to use southern coins?

-Irulan

[bloodfromstone]

Yeah, it would be nifty. Then the exchange rate could screw people from other cities over.

[RunningMountain]

Yeah, it would be nifty. Then the exchange rate could screw people from other cities over.

Yes indeed.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

This is a good idea, and makes much sense, but what exactly is the economical gold standard in this world?  Is it obsidian?

It's more of something that I'd like to understand than something I am debating, with no intent to derail.  Who controls how much obsidian coins can be pressed, and in turn, who would control how many wood chips are pressed, etc?  What backs the coins (other than the region defined resources they are pressed from)?

I'm having a little trouble envisioning how the economy works in a military state where a small portion are commoners who hold less than one percent of the wealth.  Limited mercantilism?

[elvenchipmunk]

I don't like the idea. While I find it strange that Tuluk uses Allanaki coins, I think a better solution would be to make a more global currency, instead of making two types of currencies. Making two different currencies would be more annoying [edit - it would be annoying OOCLY] than anything else, imho.

[Kennath]

I like frustrating. If your character would get pissed off because of the exchange rate because both city-states claim there money is worth more GET ANGRY and reach across the desk and demand more.

-Ken

[RunningMountain]

I don't like the idea. While I find it strange that Tuluk uses Allanaki coins, I think a better solution would be to make a more global currency, instead of making two types of currencies. Making two different currencies would be more annoying [edit - it would be annoying OOCLY] than anything else, imho.

Foolish mortal, this is the point. Even though it's a small world, the 3 main dominant civilizations, (allanak, tuluk, and elves), SHOULD have different forms of trading currency.

While ont he subject I find it despicable that elves even use allanaki coins, just touching the taint of the black pit should be a curse in their minds. With all the destruction the tribes have seen come from the place. Honestly why would they not stick to trading and haggling, what they are renowned for. Or at least using something like a ceramic elven currency they come up with.

[Cuusardo]

My guess is it hasn't happened because Nenyuk doesn't want it to.  They're the ones who really rule things, don'tcha know.

[RunningMountain]

My guess is it hasn't happened because Nenyuk doesn't want it to.  They're the ones who really rule things, don'tcha know.

Nenyuk runs the banks, not the currency. The currency is dished out by 'Naks templars I'd assume. It hasn't happened because it hasn't been coded yet.

[Vesperas]

The core problem with this is that there isn't any universally valuable resource.  Metal, while rare no matter where you go, is simply TOO rare to be used as money.

The problem with obsidian is that while it is abundant in the south, it's a bit more valuable in the north.  However, using different currencies is just weird and unreasonable, even if the idea of making it ICly frustrating is an attractive one in keeping players stuck to one area of the game for longer periods of time (no more hunters that go from Nak to Tuluk every 2 IC days).

What would possess Tuluk to trade its currency (wood chips here) for obsidian chips?  Obsidian is valuable, but its sort of worthless at the size its been crafted down to to make coins.  The same goes to the south -- why would Allanak waste precisious money 'buying' worthless wood chips?  It's not a reuseable resource.  It's not backed by anything, unless wood chips and sid chips are just representative of some unseen stores of metal somewhere.

[Yokunama]

I think it would be awesome. Why do Tulukis have Allanaki coins anyway?
-Ken

Maybe they still use the same currency, because Allanak once owned Tuluk. And it would be hard for traveling and nomad traders, whom would mostly have obsidian coins in their pockets, to make purchases in Tuluk.

Thats just my opinion.

[Morrolan]

I can think of two "standards" for currency in Zalanthas.  One is water, and the other is magickal power.  Both are pretty much monopolized by the sorcerer-kings.

Obsidian isn't used in the south because it's worth something...it's used because it is cheap and plentiful.  Sure, it's worth a little, but I think of obsidian coins as akin to paper money...a note that marks a value, rather than something of value itself.

Morrolan

[RunningMountain]

The core problem with this is that there isn't any universally valuable resource.  Metal, while rare no matter where you go, is simply TOO rare to be used as money.

The problem with obsidian is that while it is abundant in the south, it's a bit more valuable in the north.  However, using different currencies is just weird and unreasonable, even if the idea of making it ICly frustrating is an attractive one in keeping players stuck to one area of the game for longer periods of time (no more hunters that go from Nak to Tuluk every 2 IC days).

What would possess Tuluk to trade its currency (wood chips here) for obsidian chips?  Obsidian is valuable, but its sort of worthless at the size its been crafted down to to make coins.  The same goes to the south -- why would Allanak waste precisious money 'buying' worthless wood chips?  It's not a reuseable resource.  It's not backed by anything, unless wood chips and sid chips are just representative of some unseen stores of metal somewhere.

Uh, do you know anything about currency? Why do we as modern day people accept PAPER as money? We buy all sorts of things with PAPER! That's ridiculous. The reason it's accepted as money is the CONCEPT of money. Yeah these pieces of obsidian are worthless, but stamp Tektolnes face on it and now it's money to buy weapons armor, food, to pay employees, etc.

The same should go for the major resource of Tuluk, wood. And for elves, ceramics would be an easy, abundant way of them having their own elven currency. The economy for both cities would finally be able to develop with their own currency. For example:
With 100 obsidian coins down in Nak you could buy a normal bone sword. But with 100 obsidian coins up north you could trade it in for 300 wooden sun king coins and buy all sorts of crap. The same would o for wooden coins down south.

Altering the exchange rates would really screw with players and would be fun! Nenyuk would finally serve a real purpose as a bank by having to deal with ursury and setting rates for exchange and all that shit.

[Vesperas]

Uh, do you know anything about currency? Why do we as modern day people accept PAPER as money? We buy all sorts of things with PAPER! That's ridiculous. The reason it's accepted as money is the CONCEPT of money. Yeah these pieces of obsidian are worthless, but stamp Tektolnes face on it and now it's money to buy weapons armor, food, to pay employees, etc.

Uh, yeah, I do know enough about currency to tell that modern value concepts won't always work in Zalanthas.

Unfortunately, Armageddon is NOT set in a modern period, and money is BACKED in most circumstances.  Zalanthas trades in actual materials and resources.

Altering the exchange rates would really screw with players and would be fun! Nenyuk would finally serve a real purpose as a bank by having to deal with ursury and setting rates for exchange and all that shit.

And how would they go about doing this?  There's a lot of potential here for seriously pissing off one city-states or both, by preventing trade or making it difficult for one or the other to acquire certain things.  They have to operate in both areas of the Known World.  They arn't a part of the governments -- they provide a service, granted a very lucrative one.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

It seems to me that, as the powers have consolidated into city-states, and that definite material resources (think noble houses, merchant family houses) back the coins, much in the way the economy worked in post-Rennaissance,  pre-industrial Europe.

Assuming the above is true, it is highly likely that Tuluk would have its own currency, as relying on Allanak for obsidian puts too much trade in favor of Allanak.  The two cities are hostile towards one another, but that is the nature of mercantilism.  One prospers, the other does not.  Wars are fought to levy the losses, keeping the two societies, in theory (though 'Nak is stated to be wealthier), at a balance.

More than anything, though, it does not seem IC at all for tribal peoples to use Allanak's coins (or even accept them, honestly), as they seem to linger more on the direct worth of individual goods and do not horde resources near to the capacity as the city-states.

Correct any of this if it is erroneous, as I'm fairly new to the game.  But to me, it does make complete sense that the city-states would use coinage that is abundant and costs nothing in trade.

[RunningMountain]

Eon pretty much summed it much. To assume that just because it's a fantasy world you're gonna throw out logic and rational in economic/currency debate is ridiculous. Every concept in games is taken from the history of earth in one way or another.

[Manhattan]

Oh krath, don't get me started on economics. I can go on for hours about monetary and fiscal policy. Shit.

Anyway, I think metal should be used as money in both states, branded with their respective sorceror king. That's the way it used to be on earth, even though gold was rare. Because of its inherent value, this won't be fiat money like you all assume wooden Tuluki chips would be.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

Oh krath, don't get me started on economics. I can go on for hours about monetary and fiscal policy. Shit.

Anyway, I think metal should be used as money in both states, branded with their respective sorceror king. That's the way it used to be on earth, even though gold was rare. Because of its inherent value, this won't be fiat money like you all assume wooden Tuluki chips would be.

That's not a bad idea, as metal has no seeming purpose but to be horded by the absurdly rich.  The problem is, there may not be enough metal to press into widespread currency.  Even if you made them small (like, say, 4 grams), you'd end up needing several hundred thousand kgs of ore to process into coins.

I'm not even sure that much metal exists.

[Intrepid]

I thought Nenyuk was also the mint that made the coins.  If so, it would be in Nenyuk's best interests to make expensive exchange rates so they could get their coins back and rip off the traveling consumer at the same time.

[spawnloser]

Myself, I'd almost prefer going back to pure Dark Sun style coins...ceramic pieces.  Simple, cheap and easy to mint...without wasting all that 'sid on material for money when it is better used to other ends.

[Northlander]

There was a suggestion a while back about giving all gemstones a fixed value, sellable to any seller at it. And another idea was to have 'offer item item'.

[spawnloser]

You can already 'offer item item,' but the way it works is kinda...crappy.  You can't haggle.

Oh, and all items in game have a 'fixed' value.  What causes values to apparently change in game from shop to shop is markup and taxes.

[mansa]

Currently, certain clans have a secondary currency.  So, in fact, we already have a multiple currency game.

We just need to expand on that.

I think the new immortals should work on it.