True Love

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if "love" exsisted in zalanthas, the way it would on earth or if at all. I mean true romantic love between two people. Also i am just wondering about commoners elves and humans, not so much half elves because they have that disorder or nobles.

So can a person fall in love with another person?
Would it be the same kinda love we would feel for another person here on earth?
If so how would they go about expressing that love? spending more time with each other? tending to have more sex with each other the with other people? living together? Having children?
Would a person (male or female) at anytime become jealous for some reason? If so what reasons?
How common would love be in Zalanthas as far as the commoner class is concerned?
What would the love (or relationship) time line be for the regular joe in zalanthas. ex on earth:date>serious relationships>marriage (maybe a divorce and remarrige or some combo)>kids(maybe)> person you end up dying with.

These are just questions and thoughts going through my head and just would really want to hear the players opinionsand thoughts.

[Kalden]

Uh. Humans on Zalanthas are the same as humans on Earth, except with different environmental conditions. Love has existed throughout human history, regardless of the environmental conditions. In fact it's been quite common.

So yes.

[Majikal]

agreed. It makes perfect since to me though I'm sure there would be a more mature approach, logical and realism over the 'wanting to cuddle' feeling. I don't see anything wrong with Rping love or even obsessing over someone.

[ale six]

Sure. Just don't expect a happy ending.  :evil:

[Aldiel]

It's probably not the custom, but I'd think it could exist, sure.  It's is going to be hard though to think about much else besides surviving on Zalanthes.

[Zhaky]

I don't wanna make a new topic when this is much about it, but I have a question

What would happen in case a:

Templar falls in love with a commoner?
Templar falls in love with a noble?
Noble falls in love with a commoner?
Noble falls in love with a Templar?
etc... (if you got more examples)

now that Templars are so special and almost inhuman, can they then fall in love?

[ale six]

I don't wanna make a new topic when this is much about it, but I have a question

What would happen in case a:

Templar falls in love with a commoner?

This would be very rare, but usually the commoner would end up as that templar's concubine. The templar would have to be very careful about revealing the fact that he was actually deeply attached to the commoner in public.

Templar falls in love with a noble?

They'd probably end up just being very close and having sex a lot. They wouldn't be able to get married unless their seniors approved, and marriages due to love in Zalanthas are very rare.

Noble falls in love with a commoner?

Same as if a templar fell in love with a commoner, perhaps slightly less rare.

Noble falls in love with a Templar?

Same question as above?

now that Templars are so special and almost inhuman, can they then fall in love?

They have special holy powers, which makes them more than just your normal human, but they still have human emotions.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I highly doubt 'true love' is rare. I also doubt that 'cuddling' is rare. The fight for survival on Zalanthas is not an 'every waking moment' thing for a decent percentage of the population.

I'm in no way saying that survival on Zalanthas is easy, but it's not an Arena battle, either.

Love is something that will always have threads throughout any world's existance.

[ShaLeah]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15284&highlight=lurve

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1019&highlight=love

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1568&highlight=love

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6645&highlight=love

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10651&highlight=love

Just a few of the discussions on love and its many aspects.

[Anonymous]

I'll go one step further and suggest that there are some facets of Zalanthan society that -rely- on the existence and fostering of love.

[Cuusardo]

Love can be a dangerous thing on Zalanthas.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yes, it can be.

[Moofassa]

Love can be a dangerous thing on Zalanthas.

emote breaks down into a disheveled state, tears larger than ginka fruits begin to fall from his rosed cheeks.

[MorganChaos]

First, I want to correct your misconception. Half-elves do not have a disorder. Going through life ostracized and told you're worthless will fuck anyone up. Half-elves have a combined desire to fit in and desire to prove their independence.

I feel better now.

I'd think love is common enough. There's certainly family love (or was I wrong to rp that character sobbing and screaming to the point of inability to do anything else?)

A Zalanthan could get jealous, sure. Polyamory/polygamy/your preferred term starting with poly is common and accepted on Zalanthas. Doesn't mean everyone subscribes to it, or that it's even the norm. There are PCs who prefer monogamy in relationships. I wasn't involved in, but knew about a PC couple. The guy would have had various girlfriends given his choice, but his girl said "No. Just me, no one else, or someone other than me." So they were monogamous.

There's good reasons on Zalanthas, still, to discourage promiscuity and multiple partners. Part of it is the whole "is my son really my son" thing. The western idea of monogamy and virginity until marriage is idiotic and completely unnatural for most humans (there are a few humans who mate for life naturally, but the majority don't. Divorce rate anyone?). It stems from male-dominated societies when you wanted to make sure your son who was inheriting everything was actually your son, and the best way to do that was to make sure your wife had never had sex with anyone else. There's also lots of fun diseases spread sexually, and you're at a higher risk if your partner is having sex with three other people, plus the various one-night stands.

Having children isn't always a result of love. It's very often equally because someone didn't take their mul mix, or a political move (a child is obviously a pretty powerful connection between two people, and possibly a person and a group, if the other is a big enough part of it), or for appearances of something.

The relationship timeline on Zalanthas would be just as variable as it is on earth.

[Gimfalisette]

Having children isn't always a result of love. It's very often equally because someone didn't take their mul mix, or a political move (a child is obviously a pretty powerful connection between two people, and possibly a person and a group, if the other is a big enough part of it), or for appearances of something.

Anthropologically speaking, having children is most often motivated by economic forces. Children / young adults are part of the family workforce; the more workers you have, the better-off you will eventually be. Even at a young age, children can participate in economic activities such as fetching water, tending crops or animals, crafting; and by the age of about 13 they will be fully capable workers. Almost universally, children are also the parents' retirement plan; if you're fortunate enough to grow old and frail, then you'll need someone to take care of you, and thus you need that extended family. Additionally, in some societies (I haven't seen this in ARM, although it's implied in the noble marriage docs), children can be a source of income through a bride price (money paid to family that bride is marrying into) or a dowry (money paid to family that bride is coming from).

[bloodfromstone]

Code Select Expand

The fight for survival on Zalanthas is not an 'every waking moment' thing for a decent percentage of the population.

I would just like to chime in to say I'm glad to hear 7DV say this. A lot of people get so obsessed with how harsh Zalanthas is supposed to be that that ends up being the response to everything. Can people fall in love? No. Zalanthas is too harsh. Everyone just wants everyone for sex. Can people have real friendships? No. Too harsh. Everyone betrays everyone. Can someone be genuinely kind? No. Too harsh. It's just an act to trick you into sex and betrayal.

But that's not really what it's like. There will always be love and friendships and belief in human nature. A harsh world makes them rarer, but stronger, in my opinion.
Love exists, and I hope you have a lot of fun playing it out. Some of my most enjoyable moments in Arm were about love, be it between two extremely close friends or a pair of lovers or what have you.

But yeah, don't expect a happy ending.

[Marauder Moe]

And just because you betrayed someone doesn't mean you weren't (once) actually in love with them.

[MorganChaos]

Having children isn't always a result of love. It's very often equally because someone didn't take their mul mix, or a political move (a child is obviously a pretty powerful connection between two people, and possibly a person and a group, if the other is a big enough part of it), or for appearances of something.

Anthropologically speaking, having children is most often motivated by economic forces. Children / young adults are part of the family workforce; the more workers you have, the better-off you will eventually be. Even at a young age, children can participate in economic activities such as fetching water, tending crops or animals, crafting; and by the age of about 13 they will be fully capable workers. Almost universally, children are also the parents' retirement plan; if you're fortunate enough to grow old and frail, then you'll need someone to take care of you, and thus you need that extended family. Additionally, in some societies (I haven't seen this in ARM, although it's implied in the noble marriage docs), children can be a source of income through a bride price (money paid to family that bride is marrying into) or a dowry (money paid to family that bride is coming from).

Add that to selling your young into slavery, and this is a good point.

[Angela Christine]

Anthropologically speaking, having children is most often motivated by economic forces. Children / young adults are part of the family workforce; the more workers you have, the better-off you will eventually be. Even at a young age, children can participate in economic activities such as fetching water, tending crops or animals, crafting; and by the age of about 13 they will be fully capable workers. Almost universally, children are also the parents' retirement plan; if you're fortunate enough to grow old and frail, then you'll need someone to take care of you, and thus you need that extended family. Additionally, in some societies (I haven't seen this in ARM, although it's implied in the noble marriage docs), children can be a source of income through a bride price (money paid to family that bride is marrying into) or a dowry (money paid to family that bride is coming from).

Good stuff.  However, the last line implies that it is always the woman that joins the man's family.  That is only true in a patrilineal society, in a matrilineal society the man joins the woman's family, like with the Iroquois or dolphins.  We don't really know what is the norm for Zalanthans.

The nobility seems to practice unilineality where it can go either way, but if you are considered part of your father's family than you aren't part of your mother's family, or vice versa.

Since there is no prohibition against casual sex or casual breeding, matrilineal families might be slightly more common than other models among city commoners.  If the daddy is unknown, then the kid will be raised by the mommy.  If it happens often you may have a situation where many people are raised in homes with their maternal grandmother, their maternal grandmother's children, and the maternal grandmother's daughter's children,  but the father(s) and grandfathers are unknown, as are most of your maternal uncle's children.

[Gimfalisette]

Good stuff.  However, the last line implies that it is always the woman that joins the man's family.  That is only true in a patrilineal society, in a matrilineal society the man joins the woman's family, like with the Iroquois or dolphins.  We don't really know what is the norm for Zalanthans.

The nobility seems to practice unilineality where it can go either way, but if you are considered part of your father's family than you aren't part of your mother's family, or vice versa.

Since there is no prohibition against casual sex or casual breeding, matrilineal families might be slightly more common than other models among city commoners.  If the daddy is unknown, then the kid will be raised by the mommy.  If it happens often you may have a situation where many people are raised in homes with their maternal grandmother, their maternal grandmother's children, and the maternal grandmother's daughter's children,  but the father(s) and grandfathers are unknown, as are most of your maternal uncle's children.

Yeah, there are matrilineal families in earth cultures, however I don't recall any that have any kind of financial exchange involved for marriage. (It's been a long time since I formally studied marriage customs though). Plus in matrilineal families often the father does not join the mother's family at all, as you said. And since I was specifically discussing how marriage can be financially advantageous, even for "normal folks" in earth culture (thus supporting the viewpoint that marriage/love is not just for cuddly feelings in humans), matrilineal families didn't warrant special citation. The point was, in a situation where you can expect to either gain another worker when your kid gets married, or get paid off to marry them (whether they stay with you or not), it's a positive financial investment long-term to have kids.

[Dre]

I could not agree more with bloodfromstone post, well said.  

I know alot of people have sex in the mud but but for the most part actual strong relationships are on the shallow end of the RP pool. Families of any kind are the greatest means of survival in a harsh world. I mean sure a family might sell a child or two but having a family and children isn't only for old age..if you get sick or get maimed the family is still there to help.

I know someone once posted on how they thought zalanthians live fast and furiously. Sex,sid and spice. I am sure some do but the majority don't. Some have families(again whatever structure type) to provide for. Keep your character inside the cities go about your dialy business of collecting clay to eat, mind your own business and avoid problems with templar and others and  7/10..well maybe 6/10 you'll find you live to die of old age. Yeah it would be boring but thats the basic life of a commoner.Just because we don't play boring commoners doesn't mean there aren't any.

I also think that people are making sex too valauble of a commodity in Za lanthas. I think sex in zalanthas is the equivilant to going to the washroom on earth. We all do it, its no big deal, sometimes you get good relief.I would think in Zalanthas that:

Survial>sex
Juicy steak>sex
Good night sleep>sex

Its only in our western culture that sex is repressed from one side and yet at the same time we are constantly bombarded with advertisements and other things  saying how much we should be having it, sex sells after all in our world. Probably does not sell for that much in Zalanthas, its  why a whore in zalanthas is a job that should be looked up to, i mean if sex in zalanthas is as common as going to the washroom imagine actually being to sell that for a living. Its like we can all act to some extent but how many of us can be proffesional actors for a living. Therefore in Zalanthas concubine would be a celebrity and someone constantly wanting or thinking about having sex is the equivilent of them having diarrhea in our world.  

Just some thoughts,think i might have gone slightly off topic, i apologize in advance, feel free to disregard :wink:

[EvilRoeSlade]

A lot of people get so obsessed with how harsh Zalanthas is supposed to be that that ends up being the response to everything. Can people fall in love? No. Zalanthas is too harsh. Everyone just wants everyone for sex. Can people have real friendships? No. Too harsh. Everyone betrays everyone. Can someone be genuinely kind? No. Too harsh. It's just an act to trick you into sex and betrayal.

The tears of a Zalanthan can cure cancer.  Too bad Zalanthans never cry.

A Zalanthan once ate an entire 32 ounce kank steak in the span of one hour.  She spent the first forty-five minutes betraying the kank.

Superman once created a character on Armageddon and played for a half hour.  Superman then cried himself to sleep.

There is no endangered species list.  There's just a list of creatures that Zalanthans haven't yet had the chance to betray.

[Anonymous]

wow.

totally my new sig

[Dalmeth]

Here's one for you : the perfect traitor always finds a knife in his back.

Zalanthas is harsh.  It's not harsh because everyone betrays eachother, it's harsh because no one feels any loyalty beyond themselves and their immediate group.  It's just a narrower focus than what we're used to.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

The fight for survival on Zalanthas is not an 'every waking moment' thing for a decent percentage of the population

This seems right, especially in certain places.