Stealth / Shadow changes - Discuss

[Halaster]

See this thread:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18885

I know you're going to bring it up, so do it here!

[Desertman]

I like it...as it stood Shadow was the end all be all for stealthy types...you shadow once and you have the key to the city pretty much. This is a great implementation. (It will also keep desert elves from shadowing you into cities from the desert, which I never quiet understood)

[Vessol]

Seeing as I am not playing a stealth-oriented PC anymore, this won't bother me much. I never really liked 'shadow' anyhow, seemed a little overpowered, but I also really never understood it. Did or do you need to hide before shadowing? Whenever I did try to 'shadow' another PC for example they would always notice me, though it told me no message I failed. Anyways, I think the Imm's have a pretty good feeling for the game and what people want, otherwise it would have not gone this far.

[Tamarin]

Neat...but to ensure that this makes any sense, could someone have a look at ranger sneak in the city, and city sneak in wilderness?  I always found that rangers seemed to auto-fail this (and vice versa), whereas they should really just have a penalty.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know.

[Morgenes]

Neat...but to ensure that this makes any sense, could someone have a look at ranger sneak in the city, and city sneak in wilderness?  I always found that rangers seemed to auto-fail this (and vice versa), whereas they should really just have a penalty.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to know.

The helpfiles on hide & sneak have been updated today, read them over and you might find the answer to your question.

[mansa]

It is now possible to remain hidden and still move, based on your stealth abilities. However, as a trade-off, shadowing someone is no longer automatic but instead goes through the same kinds of checks.

I honestly don't understand this.  I always thought it was:

Code Select Expand

>sneak
You are now sneaking
>hide
You look for a spot to hide.
You now try to hide.
>n
>hide
You look for a spot to hide.
You now try to hide.
>e
>hide
You look for a spot to hide.
You now try to hide.


Does that mean, that I don't have to keep typing 'hide' in every room?

[Morgenes]

That is what that means.

[mansa]

Awesome!

[naatok]

You guys ROCK!
 
The realism of code for Arm just keeps getting better and better!
Thank you for being just as naughty and evil as I am.....if not more so!

:twisted:

[Xygax]

For those that found it annoying, this may also help with the "auto-flee" creatures in the wilderness, since you may be able to remain hidden after sneaking up on them.  Give it a try.

-- X

[Morgenes]

And not to give too much away, but this may also help with the criminal code as well.

[Bogre]

I think these are two amazing changes that make the game both more realistic and more playable.

I give mad props.

[ale six]

This is unbelievably sexy and makes me want to play another shady type.

[Delirium]

This is unbelievably sexy and it makes me miss my ranger.

[jmordetsky]

And not to give too much away, but this may also help with the criminal code as well.

:is giddy.

DAMN I wish I had more time to play!

Props!

[Hot_Dancer]

Mixed feelings.

It'll temporarily invalidate some desert elf tactics of massive shadowing parties..(until they get their skills up) which may or may not be a bad thing. It will also lead to many shady types in cities moving with stealth more than walking due to a lack of a stamina drain and the ability to stay completely unseen in the process.

Makes a class without scan seem a little more ignorant in regards to their surroundings.

Mostly seems to benefit the solo ninja..but coordinating groups of ninjas should be hard as well.

Hot Dancer

[mansa]

...
Makes a class without scan seem a little more ignorant in regards to their surroundings....

I fully believe that all rogue classes should have scan in their skill trees, somewhere in there.

[Hot_Dancer]

I'd like to see every class have scan at some portion of ability in their skill trees.

It makes less and less sense to be so totally inadequate vs invisible and hidden creatures.

Hot Dancer

[jhunter]

I'd like to see every class have scan at some portion of ability in their skill trees.

It makes less and less sense to be so totally inadequate vs invisible and hidden creatures.

Hot Dancer

I'd like to see this as well. In addition to such a change though, I'd like to see the difficulty to spot invisible things raised a bit making it so that it's beyond the capabilities of certain guilds because of their cap on scan.

[SpyGuy]

Awesome, especially for how this will impact the criminal code.

[Forty Winks]

The watch command might already handle some of what scanning would...at least that's my guess.

As of the sneak/hide, can't find too many flaws with it even if I tried...  :wink:

[slipshod]

Does this also apply to movements while hidden that aren't movements between rooms?  Like 'draw knife' or 'etwo sword'?

maybe I don't understand hide well enough, but it always seemed to me if someone was hidden well enough and skilled enough they could take some actions without automatically revealing themselves.

[Morgenes]

Does this also apply to movements while hidden that aren't movements between rooms?  Like 'draw knife' or 'etwo sword'?

No, this is solely to do with moving from room to room.  The existing hide help file covers the difference.

maybe I don't understand hide well enough, but it always seemed to me if someone was hidden well enough and skilled enough they could take some actions without automatically revealing themselves.

This might be something we consider in the future, but for now it remains as it was, most actions break hide.

[Intrepid]

Everyone having Scan isn't too bad of an idea, but...I really hope that it's altered a little.

:arrow:  Scan picking up invisible folk should equate to the same chances as Listen picking up
a stray whisper, imo; while not impossible, it should not be easy either.

:arrow:  If everyone has Scan, it should be automatic unless you're watching someone,
fighting or sleeping.  It should also be able to function in tandem with the Watch <direction>
option.

:arrow:  High levels of Scan should point out something potentially odd about a room
so that a Search could be performed (assuming the pc has such a skill).

[slipshod]

I'd also like to see an active scan status reflected in the 'stat' return.

If I'm not mistaken, there's no way to know if you have scan on or off, not like listen where you can check the status.  If you have scan on, your status still says "you aren't watching anything in particular" - the same as no scan.