Stealth / Shadow changes - Discuss

[mansa]

Does this also apply to movements while hidden that aren't movements between rooms?  Like 'draw knife' or 'etwo sword'?

maybe I don't understand hide well enough, but it always seemed to me if someone was hidden well enough and skilled enough they could take some actions without automatically revealing themselves.

You can do hidden movements.

Hidden movements are not 'weild' or 'etwo'.

Mystery Mystery!

[Ritley]

Your uber staff. You really, really, don't know how much I love you all!

:twisted:
*kiss* *kiss* *kiss*

[Intrepid]

You can do hidden movements.

Hidden movements are not 'weild' or 'etwo'.

Mystery Mystery!

That could be a nice expanded function of sleight of hand, ie, having the draw or
wield actions check against sleight of hand to see if you did it without exhibiting
an emote.

[Morgenes]

So after some digging after being reminded, there are certain ways that weapons can be drawn quietly.  However not all weapons can be, and you need a specific type of sheath as well as skill to pull it off.

Note that it will still break hide.  I'm still thinking on that part of it.

[Morgenes]

And to continue on my post rampage, those special cases where you can silently draw something will not break hide.

[Anonymous]

This is one of the coolest changes I've seen since I've been playing, much appreciated.  Possibly being able to sneak up on wimpy animals is oh-so-sexy.

RE: Comments that everyone should have scan I shudder to think of warriors and certain magic classes with scan.  When playing certain magic classes sneaky types are a necessary vulnerability if you ask me.

[Tamarin]

Just a note though...It wasn't this change that made sneaking up on auto-flee critters possible.  Morg (or possibly someone else) made that change to scan about a month or so ago, possibly a bit more.  Might have been Halaster.  I can't remember.

[SpyGuy]

This is one of the coolest changes I've seen since I've been playing, much appreciated.  Possibly being able to sneak up on wimpy animals is oh-so-sexy.

As Tamarin said, it was Halaster I think that fixed sneaking up on wimpy animals.  What I love about this idea is it means that sneaking up on aggro mobs might actually work now  :wink:

One question to staff:  Does this fix negate Halaster's fix, or was that just the fix of a different sort of bug?

[Delirium]

fix of a different sort of bug

That's what it was, I'm 99% certain.

[Morgenes]

Without going into too many details, the auto-flee npcs were set up to flee when they saw someone enter.  Which is governed purely by sneak.  What this changes is allowing you to enter a room unnoticed and remain hidden, so that other pcs or npcs that look in the room before you can hide again won't notice you.

[Hot_Dancer]

I'm pretty sure most 'sneaky' types have stealth skills that cap out considerably past the caps of most 'scan' level caps available to most classes currently in game.

As for the invisibility thing, it's already quite difficult for the level of the spell.

Hot Dancer

[A desert Elf]

I'm actually kind of scared to do anything anymore. I bash, kick, disarm and they put in a penalty, I switch to archery and they put in a penalty, I switch to shadowing and they give me a penalty, but I can hide and sneak better, awesome.

[cyberpatrol_735]

And to continue on my post rampage, those special cases where you can silently draw something will not break hide.

Awesome, I've been wondering about this, I can pull this off

Thanks!

[John]

For those that found it annoying, this may also help with the "auto-flee" creatures in the wilderness, since you may be able to remain hidden after sneaking up on them.  Give it a try.

I also echo my fellow players' "You guys rock."

I think this shows once and for all that the staff aren't looking to "nerf" or
"buff" classes, but to instead make them more realistic.

As for the "everyone gets scan" idea. No. If someone is skilled enough to get past the average joe by being hidden, then that person should be rewarded by doing so. Don't make everyone skilled in being able to spot hidden people. Also, the "thief bible" does say to understand where you're character is hiding, and if someone emotes looking there, to consider unhiding yourself. Trust the sneaky types.

[Bebop]

I have a question just about the mechanics of it.  Shadow before was basically like you typed hide once and it kind of rolled it every room if you stayed hidden right?  I'm failing to see what the different is for the shadow command.  Do you know have to type hide every room while you shadow??

As far as sneaking and hiding, you now only have to type hide once?  And it will stay on?

[mansa]

I have a question just about the mechanics of it.  Shadow before was basically like you typed hide once and it kind of rolled it every room if you stayed hidden right?  I'm failing to see what the different is for the shadow command.  Do you know have to type hide every room while you shadow??

Shadow was...

You type hide.

You hide successfully.

You type 'shadow soandso'

You start following them and they don't notice.

You will follow them forever and you will never become 'unhidden' unless you type something that will make you break your hidden status.

You don't have to type hide again and again.

As far as sneaking and hiding, you now only have to type hide once?  And it will stay on?

Basically, yes.  There are other factors into this that affect it, like population of the room, lighting of the room, size of the room, people watching in the room, etc.

[Hot_Dancer]

It's not as much that everyone should be skilled at spotting hidden people, it's that it's currently all or nothing.

PC's shouldn't be so totally invisible to detection because they class-scouted someone and figured out they don't have the appropriate scan.

Hot Dancer

[Intrepid]

I'm pretty sure most 'sneaky' types have stealth skills that cap out considerably past the caps of most 'scan' level caps available to most classes currently in game.

As for the invisibility thing, it's already quite difficult for the level of the spell.

Hot Dancer

I must have been running into some really powerful pcs and npcs or running into
some seriously bad luck, because it just seemed like I was unable to linger anyplace
in the wilderness without being chased.  Mind you, I'm not suggesting you're wrong,
as I could have run into some veteran pcs.  By the same token, it is possible that
the scan skill on npcs is set too high as well.

[FightClub]

Awesome --

On scan, yeah I believe that it should be avail to more people.  It's another one of those things that makes rangers the only ones able to handle every situation, when hunters, or guards, might possibly be good at this as well.

My suggestion.  A solid scan prohibits this -- phasing that goes on during arounds or checks.  A scan that's significantly higher than the hidden person, will reveal their sdesc.  And perhaps have a special character so you know what they're doing.

While lower end classes with scan would have a higher failure rate, and possibly would never actually be able to see the person's sdesc of whome they scan.  They would instead see it how it currently is.  shadows and blurs.

The only problem is -- this would annihilate rogue classes, so it should be capped that those whome are skilled in the arts of ninjitsu would never be detected by these guards/hunters -- or everyone that isn't a ranger.

It would help a lot -- with the twink ninja rogues "i've" seen and help a bit out there, and maybe give people a chance against them damn magickers, not a big one -- just a wee little slim one, or atleast they'd now have the gratification of seeing -something- instead of someone, before they died.

[Halaster]

I can safely say that wer are -not- going to give everyone scan, heh.

[Hot_Dancer]

Halaster just knows he can't make magickers powerful enough to sustain themselves or annihilate the playerbase if the rest of us could actually 'see' and take 'action' against them.

Whimps.

Hot Dancer

[Bebop]

Awesome change then.

And I agree that scan is fine the way it is.

Edit - I also like the kank thing where you can get them up without riding them.  It's just a little thing like that, that makes the game feel a tad bit realer.

[mansa]

I sorta started the thread about giving scan out to other classes.

I just want those rogues to be able to spot their buddies who are also hidden with them.

[Ghost]

Okay, I am not sure if I got it right.

Now, movement does not break hide?  Is that it?  Or successful sneak does not break hide?  So if we are sneaking and hiding, we can hide once and then  sneak away from the angry mob to the safety without needing to type hide every now and then?

If that is it, The crime code finally allows us something to do!  AWESOME!  AWESOME I SAY!

I can even tolerate fake sex ads today.

Just for today, Ves and Laura, just today.

P.S:  Oh, another question:  Is it like, once we type hide and move to the next room, does it check for skill hide and decide we are hidden or not?  Or does it check only in the first hide and after that, if we are successful in sneak it will always be the first hide?

[Halaster]

Halaster just knows he can't make magickers powerful enough to sustain themselves or annihilate the playerbase if the rest of us could actually 'see' and take 'action' against them.

Whimps.

Hot Dancer

*in a Gollum voice*  Oh yes I can!