Half-giants: A bit of tweaking maybe?

[Angela Christine]

I haven't played HGs much.  I have trouble playing a character that talks all the time without accidentally saying something clever.  (A character that doesn't talk all the time just doesn't work for me at all.)

However, I think half-giant hide should be at least as tough as dwarf hide, if it isn't already.  Early on I had a dwarf merchant hunting some little animal, and it's blows kept bouncing off my dwarf's tough hide.  I haven't every tried killing a similar animal with a HG, but I hope that their skin is just as tough.


  * * * *


I believe that some HGs are raised outside of large organizations.  There are HGs that do not work for the Great Houses.  They aren't known for great loyalty, a HG could simply wander from one small band to another, on job to another, one group of exploitive friends to another.  HGs taking lifetime loyalty oaths always make me giggle, because if they see someone more interesting they probably won't even remember promising to stay forever.  There are HG NPCs that don't wear the livery of any House.  

It costs more to keep a half-giant or a bunch of half-giant kids fed.  But a half-giant day labourer can easily make more money than anyone else.  A half-giant lumberjack or obsidian miner can carry many times what a human could, and can probably carry more than a human with a kank can carry.  (They do have trouble finding mounts, but now they can at least use pack animals.)  He works all morning, stops for lunch, goes back out for a couple hours in the afternoon, and has a nice evening at home with plenty of money.  You don't have to be smart to knock down trees.




Are half-giants smart enough to raise their own children?  Heck, hamsters are smart enough to raise their own children (though they may eat a few) and hamsters are like the stupidest mammals ever.  The bits about giving birth and nursing can be managed by maternal instincts as much as formal training.  Adult half-giants are used to not stepping on tiny people, they have to practice that from the time they are children because the neighbours get cranky when young half-giants squish things, so I doubt that they often squish their own babies.  Kids are resilient.  

Even without a Great House, a half-giant probably isn't raising her kids with no help at all.  Her friends and neighbours will offer advice, for self-preservation if for no other reason.  She will also see tons of other people raise kids before she is able to have any of her own (half-giants mature more slowly than humans).  Half-giants are good at mimicry, so she will play house and do the things she sees other mothers do.  She might not do them perfectly, but kids don't really need things done perfectly.  I don't have any kids, but I've heard people talk about raising kids, and about how much more they fuss over the first kid than over the third kid or the eighth kid, and those latter kids survive just fine.  Babies are born with an excellent alarm system that goes off whenever they are hungry, filthy, lonely or otherwise in distress.  You don't have to be smart to notice that the baby is crying.


People routinely leave 12 year olds babysitting little kids.  It is common for children under 12 to be left watching their younger siblings for hours at a time.  Half-giants are as capable of taking care of babies as 10 year old humans (or hamsters).



A half-giant might be more likely than any other race to sell a kid into slavery or give it away.  They are vulnerable to smooth talkers.  They might get bored of taking care of kid and want to get rid of it.  They might even have too many kids to take care of and sell one (they probably aren't good about remembering to take the mul mix, or getting the correct (huge) doses of mul mix).



Unless the staff says differently, I'm going to continue to assume that unaffiliated half-giants exist and that they sometimes raise children.


Angela Christine

[SpyGuy]

I loved that post AC.

[bloodfromstone]

(A character that doesn't talk all the time just doesn't work for me at all.)

Gee, I wouldn't have guessed from your posts.  

[UnderSeven]

My conclusion based off of those three facts, is that half giants are probably very rarely solo from birth and are probably bred or made between two half giants already in a house and therefore the kid would end up in the house too.

Okay, how about this: Most PC half-giants aren't slaves.

I never said they were, if you read my post you might of come off with the idea I was trying to say the likely worked for or belonged to a house, the ultimate point I was trying to make is it's probably rare or unusal for a halfgiant not to have some sort of non-half giant benefactor.

EDIT: How bout reading my post more carefully before responding that way next time.

[jhunter]

To any that think they need help. HAH, I say, you have never seen a HG warrior with good shield skill, good parry and a big ass blunt weapon in action.

Apparently I haven't in all my time playing here. I've never encountered a half-giant pc that couldn't be easily defeated by a human, elf, or even dwarf pc of fewer days. (Oh wait...I take that back. There was -one-.)

They're ridiculously underpowered for what they -should- be.

[Cenghiz]

Rukkians are simply my favourites. If a mundane char -or five- decides to attack a bit seasoned rukkian, they learn the meaning of being pawned. If a mage decides to attack a rukkian, even an unprepared defiler, he learns the meaning of being pawned. Half-giants are not three karma because they're stronger than rukkians. Half-giants are three karma because they are harder to play and they require more responsibility.

A few days-old h-giant ranger/warrior may sweep away gith with ease. But they're to be rather good tools instead of self-inscribed killing machines. They don't go 'try' killing halfling hunters. Why? They learn from humans and humans avoid halflings at all costs before they become the immense killing machines. Why should a half-giant go try killing a halfling, if not told to in the beginning? We should all read and digest the helpfiles first.

Their skin is thicker, life dwarven skins are.. How? Add %h and %H to your prompt and you get it. They already have larger strides and don't get tired too easily. How? Add %v and %V to your prompt and you get it. But they're like elephants, huge legs carrying huge mass. If you want to run around the known world, d-elves are what you seek.

I don't think half-giants are nerfed at all and I don't think they need any enchance to their stats.

[Dakkon Black]

Well, I've had a good bit of hg xp in the last little while. The arguments for both sides have been pretty interesting.

Tougher skin, yeah I think I could really see this happening. Even if their skin isn't really, tougher, as per se, think about it this way.

Stab a human very hard with a longknife, that thing is a good 25-30% of the way into their body.

Stab a hg very hard with a longknife, that thing is maybe 4% of the way in.

H-G's are ten times larger in terms of mass for the most part, thats ten times more blood to loose, etc. They do get more hp, but only twice as much really.

2. Definately not more money. They are bad accountants.

3. Longer stride should really be happening, even walking for 30 min with a friend who is alot shorter then you will show how much pace size makes a difference in stamina drain. They can take four human paces in one.

[Armaddict]

If you search for previous topics on this matter, you'd see I've said this for a long time.

No, I don't want Half-giants absolutely -destroying- entire masses of people.

Yes, I -do- want half-giant size more accurately portrayed.  I don't want things this massive and strong taken out so easily just for agility penalties.

I realize that half-giants, over time, can become -very- scary as is.  I also realize that this is the same with nearly everyone of a class.  The fact is, a half-giant warrior should be scary because of his race, not his playing time.

I don't remember the ideas I brought up in the past.  I just remember people did not like this idea.  If you want to restart this thread, I'd encourage looking back at past threads to see what defenses you have to counter (I'm already seeing some of them repeated...over and over.)

[X-D]

So, thinking back on past posts of my own, and pet peeves having to do with half-giants.

Yes, Like armaddict said, the size needs a more accurate portrayal if nothing else.

Because of the diff in agility, somehow or another things 6-8 feet shorter then the HG manage to get in there, do some super ninja jump, tag the HG in the head and neck with some tiny weapon doing massive damage and all without any leverage at all, THEN manage to super ninja flip back out of the range of the massive HG weapon. Usually managing to do so several times per swing of the HG.

I'd have to say, that when you are actually thinking about it, watching this happen is EASILY the least realistic aspect of the game to date. Magick and PSI are easier to swallow.

And exactly how is it that a 60lbs halfling manages to break free of the grip of a 2,000 pound half-giant again? He chew the fingers off? Hell, even that would take some time. And during that time, why was it the HG was not able to reach over and pop that halflings head off like a beercap?

And why can't Half-giants throw smaller pc's into objects for damage?

And why can't they use said PC as an improvised weapon, I mean come on, that half-elf is smaller then his massive club the size of a mul's thigh.


Now, I also have to say, Lately, I've seen MUCH better rp by the players as a whole around HG's then just two years ago, Kudos to all that have read the docs and are playing to them.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I've never met a powerful half-giant.  I don't know if this is because they never live long enough to become powerful, or if because they are seriously underpowered.  Personally, I think that the reason is both.

However, a half-giant shouldn't have to live a long time to become a melee nightmare.  Much in the way a mekillot doesn't have to train to be a mekillot.  It simply IS one.

[Anonymous]

I've never met a powerful half-giant.  I don't know if this is because they never live long enough to become powerful, or if because they are seriously underpowered.  Personally, I think that the reason is both.

Personally, I think you don't see many highly powered half giants because people get bored with playing them, and they store.

Either playing stupid gets old because you've done every gag from every movie or comic book or other RPG you know, or playing naiive and following some other guy around gets old because all you ever end up doing is the same exact thing.

[Armaddict]

Actually.

I think they generally die, Davien.

[Kalden]

If they were to be changed, their karma should be significantly upped.

I'm disgusted with at least a quarter of the half-giants I meet, RPwise.

[Halaster]

Half-giants are perfectly fine the way they are.

[Armaddict]

Half-giants are perfectly fine the way they are.

Hence the reason why there has been -no- debate whatsoever in any threads saying such.

[naatok]

Anyone who has played a half-wit realizes that their size has already been figured in to their killability.  They are big, strong, but slow and stupid brutes.

Naughty monkey says that  Half-giants are bad-ass enough as it is.

But who cares what I say?   :twisted:

[theebie]

I'm quite positively sure that a skilled halfgiant (and you get them skilled sooner or later) can do INCREDIBLE damage.

if you cant, you dont know how to play.

(additionally if a HG hits you with a blunt thing on your head, you -have- your wanted instant knockout)

---theebie---

[Aldiel]

1. Their increased stamina reflects this.

2. No, that's one of the challenges of playing a half-giant.  It needs to stay as is, IMO.

3. Half-giants can already almost out-walk a kank.

[jhunter]

3. Half-giants can already almost out-walk a kank.

I don't see where people are getting this. It just isn't true. I had a hg pc with exceptional endurance and it had only slightly more stamina points than a human with exceptional human endurance.

And half-giants extra hp doesn't mean shit when an enemy gets like 20 attacks to his one and they almost all hit with full damage. It's way too easy to hurt them, far easier than it should be.

[Cenghiz]

I don't see where people are getting this. It just isn't true. I had a hg pc with exceptional endurance and it had only slightly more stamina points than a human with exceptional human endurance.

Uh? I had a young h-giant PC with poor endurance and he had 1.5 times a usual human's stamina. You are really sure about that?

[WarriorPoet]

If I attacked an eight year old with a massive wooden broadsword, he wouldn't last longer than it took me to close the distance and make a swipe. Even if he was far, far quicker than me, if he got anywhere near enough to poke me with anything I would lop off an arm because of my superior reach and strength.

Up halfgiant dexterity a bit, I say.

-WP will never again play a HG, but he likes the idea of them being more uber.

[jhunter]

I don't see where people are getting this. It just isn't true. I had a hg pc with exceptional endurance and it had only slightly more stamina points than a human with exceptional human endurance.

Uh? I had a young h-giant PC with poor endurance and he had 1.5 times a usual human's stamina. You are really sure about that?

100%. Just checked it out not less than two days ago. *Edit to remove numbers.* Sorry, wasn't thinking. I think that a pm would have sufficed rather than derailing with that post as well.

[Sir Helpsalot?]

Please... for the LOVE OF TEK stop posting actual numbers!

There's no need to discuss things with such detail... there's no reason to assert your opinion on this discussion board using IC information. This is the kind of stuff left for the IMMs to discuss on THEIR board with such detail.

There seems to be a distrubing trend appearing in recent threads of people wanting to assert themselves as 'knowledgeable' in one area or another and listing off detailed IC information to back up this assertion.

You can dicuss things conceptually without getting into the hard numbers.. and in fact you're supposed to. So from one player to another... Please STOP.

[Aldiel]

Yep, and Jhunter, go take a look at dakkon black's post.

[jhunter]

Yep, and Jhunter, go take a look at dakkon black's post.

AND???!!! Don't see your point.