The Saturday Games

[Anonymous]

Saturday. A party for the staff (haha), dull desolation for everyone else.

But wait. Must it be this way? What if gladiator characters were to crawl out of their cells to perform... during Saturday downtimes?

Imagine the mud rebooting with only one zone (the "real" zones being in a completely separate folder tree and so not affected at all by the special session). This zone would contain a copy of the Allanaki arena. There would be a Templar of the Games character, some soldiers to work for the Templar, the gladiators of course (second characters that only come out on Saturdays), and a bunch of indistinct spectator characters in the stands that also only come out on Saturdays, inhabited by those who wish to watch the games. The need for food and drink could be disabled so that people wouldn't starve in the stands (or food and drink might be made freely available there).

The gladiators could have an hour or two in advance to their skills (and plan dramatic fight moves together, for the entertainment of the crowd) before the show begins. Each stable of gladiators would be sponsored by one of Allanak's noble houses. There would be a definite "champion's crown" worn by the leading gladiator of the leading house. The nobles could plot the matches to be held during the normal game uptime and submit a program for the weekend.

Naturally wild beasts (captured by hunters for the noble houses during the week) could play a role as well.

[Cegar]

I cannot begin to second the pure awesome that this would... verb.

[Malifaxis]

Someone is watching Comedy Central, eh Cegar?


What about all the northern players?  Desert elves?  Nomadic humans?

[Anonymous]

What about all the northern players?  Desert elves?  Nomadic humans?

All welcome. After all, you wouldn't be logging in as your character, just as some non-descript spectator character assigned by the MUD. Sure it would be a little information your regular character would't have as a desert elf, but knowing which gladiator won the day off in Allanak wouldn't be much harm even if you did let it slip ICly afterward.

[Bogre]

This idea has been niggling at me for a while...and I love it.

You wouldn't be playing your normal character...you would be playing a gladiator character, like the old system where people could make 2 characters.

So everyone would play/train them on Saturdays, doing gladiator things...and then the top-ranked ones might get featured in the normal weekday RPT's that the nobles hold.

[Cuusardo]

If I get the urge to mud during downtime, I go to the mud I IMM on and eat people's brainz.  :twisted:

[RogueWarrior]

Yah know... there's only about three words that can describe my feelings for this idea....










Yah ready for it?












I really don't think yah are.....












Yah might be....









Well... to avoid wasting anymore valuable net space....










I FREAKING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

[LauraMars]

there's only about three words that can describe my feelings for this idea....

I FREAKING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

That's four words!  *sings*

p.s. I am in favor of this idea.

p.p.s. It sounds like too much work though, so don't hold your breath.

[Cale_Knight]

I'm conflicted.

First we're talking about Saturday-only characters, which I'm cool with. But then all of a sudden the weekday nobles are the ones organizing the games and getting credit for it, which allows them to further goals on their own characters while everyone else is required to play separate characters.

I think it'd have to be all of one or all of the other. Either everyone has the option of logging their real characters and participating and gaining stuff with their main characters (be that wealth, points with superiors, or just RP experiences), or nobody at all should benefit and everyone should be forced to play secondary PCs.

I do like the basic gist of it, though.

[marko]

I would think that such a thing would be completely separate from the rest of the game world.  More or less an OOC gladiator games thing.  People running around and killing one another in the arena - no holds barred.  

Character submission would be loose and easy.  

Arm:  Gladiator Edition.

I like the idea but I doubt it'll happen.  Saturdays are used to change code over so I dunno if having a 'lite' version running would interfere with that.

The logistics of it are also interesting - do we make new accounts?  How are char apps handled?  Is everyone limited to "gladiator" classes?  What do those who aren't fighting do?  They wait in the pens?

Who officiates? As in who allows gladiators out to fight?

Is it just a free for all?  If so, why not just open up the 'rinth and have everyone run crazy there?

In other words, to make this happen from an administrative view I see the following requirements:

Account handling - new gladiator accounts?
- Therefore new Saturday account store / logging

New application queue - possible solution apps only allowed on Saturdays

Dedicated gladiator staff - this takes staff away from Saturday updates (btw, having regular gladiator games with gladiator PCs was a huge time sink for those imms handling them - I don't think the imms involved ever really got the thanks they deserved for it)

New character classes - unless everyone uses the base classes and therefore everyone has the exact same skills and it's all stats based

Handling of those not in combat?  Is it one large free for all?  If so, let's open up a new zone for it specifically.

New policies required for handling OOCness, trading of information, transfer of knowledge, bringing across results (if at all) to the main game.  How many gladiator chars can you have in a day?

New procedures for handling death - since the objective is basically to die a lot of people will be dying within the three hour limit.  

If answers to these issues and the rest that I haven't thought of in the past two minutes can be adequately answered and implemented without wasting vast amounts of resources - I say let's do it.

[Bebop]

I don't be a nay sayer and all but the point of Saturday downtime is.  Downtime.

It kind of makes Arm into a hack and slash one day a week, meh.


I think there should be more arena games maybe once every other real life month or so but this idea ... seems complicated and conflicting.

[Folker]

just have the game set up on a different port. There are a number of muds that have "testworlds" running, so the immortals are able to test out new code on an alternative identical gameworld without crushing the real one if something goes wrong.

[Anonymous]

Arm:  Gladiator Edition.

I like the idea but I doubt it'll happen.  Saturdays are used to change code over so I dunno if having a 'lite' version running would interfere with that.

There's no reason for interference. The data files and executables would simply need to be maintained in separate places, without overlap. The executable wouldn't have to be updated all that often. If a staff member makes a change to crafting code, there's no great urgency to update the arena executable.

The logistics of it are also interesting - do we make new accounts?  How are char apps handled?  Is everyone limited to "gladiator" classes?  What do those who aren't fighting do?  They wait in the pens?

Yes, new accounts. Char apps handled in the same way for those who want to play gladiators. Those who want to watch just log in as anonymous specators and sit in the stands. Those who aren't fighting could train, or watch the match in progress from "the dugout".

Who officiates? As in who allows gladiators out to fight?

The Templar of the Games and his soldiers (NPCs probably would suffice for soldiers). One character following the program set out by the nobles.

Is it just a free for all?  If so, why not just open up the 'rinth and have everyone run crazy there?

No, it is not a free for all. It's a series of matches between picked gladiators, two on one, man vs. beast and so forth. Conceivably there could be occasional special events, with one entire team pitted against another.

In other words, to make this happen from an administrative view I see the following requirements:

Account handling - new gladiator accounts?
- Therefore new Saturday account store / logging

New application queue - possible solution apps only allowed on Saturdays

Dedicated gladiator staff - this takes staff away from Saturday updates (btw, having regular gladiator games with gladiator PCs was a huge time sink for those imms handling them - I don't think the imms involved ever really got the thanks they deserved for it)

Not so many apps as you might think. The gladiatorial contests don't always need to be to the death. In fact, that would be a special event. In other cases, the crowd shouting down from the stands could decide whether a fallen gladiator should live or die. The Templar of the Games probably could handle the unrolling of events. A staff member could stock cages with beasts and replaced damaged armor etc. every now and then.

New character classes - unless everyone uses the base classes and therefore everyone has the exact same skills and it's all stats based

This is how Arm works now. The contestants would be warriors. Maybe a couple of sub-classes could be added for fancing (showy more than damaging) fighting moves, like a form of acrobat or unarmed, but it wouldn't be necessary. I think there would be more fun in developing a gladiatorial personality. Add in a lot of exotic weapons and bits and pieces of armor (or not, since again it isn't really necessary), and let people build personalities around their choices. etc. Conflict of personalities and different mixes and matches to provide the variety rather than different fighting skills.

New policies required for handling OOCness, trading of information, transfer of knowledge, bringing across results (if at all) to the main game.

This is really minimal. If some player of some desert elf knows which gladiator won the honors for the day in the last round and lets it slip ICly, who really cares? It's not game-shaking information, even if it is abused.

How many gladiator chars can you have in a day?

At most one. The program will be played out by the Templar of the Games, and then apps will be accepted as needed afterwards to fill out the stables.

New procedures for handling death - since the objective is basically to die a lot of people will be dying within the three hour limit.

Nope. The objective would be to have a series of entertaining matches. Maybe one or two would end in death, maybe not. Each stable of gladiators for each noble house would be limited to maybe five gladiators. One less for lower houses and one more for the top ones. When a slot opens up, it could be posted to the GDB that apps are being accepted. Or the next application on the queue just gets accepted and the player notified.

[Anonymous]

But then all of a sudden the weekday nobles are the ones organizing the games and getting credit for it, which allows them to further goals on their own characters while everyone else is required to play separate characters.

How? I could see one House or another gaining some bragging rights for a week, but that's about it. Please explain what you mean.

[Anonymous]

I don't be a nay sayer and all but the point of Saturday downtime is.  Downtime.

If you prefer to relax on Saturday, your weekday character wouldn't suffer by your not attending the arena.

It kind of makes Arm into a hack and slash one day a week, meh.

Maybe, if it were some kind of free-for-all bloodfest, but that isn't the idea. It would be like the arena matches that have been held before, except that people would have a lot of time to think about things, plan for it, and grow into the gladiator concept.

[Anonymous]

just have the game set up on a different port. There are a number of muds that have "testworlds" running, so the immortals are able to test out new code on an alternative identical gameworld without crushing the real one if something goes wrong.

Actually, running the full game on one port and having staff making updates to the same data files on another port would be horribly messy. Thus the separate data files and separate executable as proposed.

[Anonymous]

Actually, running the full game on one port and having staff making updates to the same data files on another port would be horribly messy. Thus the separate data files and separate executable as proposed.

It's been a year or two since I muddled with Diku but I don't think this needs to be the case.  If this hypothetical mud was rooms, objects and NPCs from a specific diku zone that was hands-off during Saturday maintenance I don't think this would be an issue.

[spawnloser]

While this could be fun...there are so many other hack'n'slashes we could do this on.  I mean, hell, we could all vote on one other hack'n'slash mud to mob and go schizo on each other in TS.

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah, sorry, but I think I have to give my thumbs-down on this one.  Regardless of what you propose, such a thing *will* require imm support.  Or, at the very least, you'll be tempting them to come watch.  Saturday downtime is supposed to be a peaceful, distraction-free and temptation-free day for the immortals to work on the MUD.

Also... Saturday is my most productive day of the week!  It's when I pay bills, do laundry, clean my apartment, and so on.  I don't need distractions or temptations either.  :wink:

[RogueWarrior]

Not so many apps as you might think. The gladiatorial contests don't always need to be to the death. In fact, that would be a special event. In other cases, the crowd shouting down from the stands could decide whether a fallen gladiator should live or die. The Templar of the Games probably could handle the unrolling of events. A staff member could stock cages with beasts and replaced damaged armor etc. every now and then.

Actually, during the original Roman games, -maybe- one out of every ten gladiators who competed was actually slain, unless he/she was a slave, of course. Most of the time, their life depended on how well the games that day had gone, and how well the gladiator had preformed, as well as how blood-thirsty the crowd happened to be that day. After the match, and there was a clear winner, the loser would appeal to the head of the game, who would give a thumbs up, or a thumbs down, and thus determine the loser's fate.

Honestly, I suggest at the beginning of the day, whoever wanted to make a gladiator, could. If their character was killed, then the person would instantly become a spectator, probably controlling some previously stationary NPC.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of what you propose, such a thing *will* require imm support.

If it turns out to be the case, then a special staff member could be created that can only log into the arena server, to handle that stuff. Maybe the same person that plays the Templar of the Games.

Also... Saturday is my most productive day of the week!  It's when I pay bills, do laundry, clean my apartment, and so on.  I don't need distractions or temptations either.  :wink:

This is the strongest argument for not having the arena that I've seen. I don't have any solutions.

[marko]

Since the pens of the gladiators aren't really connected to the stands I'm not understanding how one plans to take a spectator in the stands to being a gladiator.

Does this mean that on saturdays we have two characters?  One a spectator and one a gladiator?  Further, what is to prevent spectators from leaving the arena and running amock in Allanak?

Once that opens up - people can leave Allanak and just wander around the world.  In other words, we now have Armageddon 2: the Ghost World running.

As I said, the logistics to running this are more complex than they seem on the surface.  

I am not satisfied with the answers given yet - this needs to be fleshed out fully including staff responsibilities, availability (when do the games run from exactly?), how the games are watched, how to deal with hunger / thirst of the spectators, and how it is explained that death rarely happens in Allanaki games when, historically, the typical result of any match run in Allanak is the death of at least one of the combatants.

The arena games that used to be held with gladiator PCs were to the death.  Gladiator PCs were specially approved, they picked certain skill areas that their chars were proficient with, and had greater options to the races.  Gladiator PCs existed solely to fight and to die - it was a lot of fun but it was a lot of work for the imms involved and that was during regularly scheduled uptime.

Another question that I'm wondering about:

The officiate templar - is that a PC or is that an Imm?  Are the games going to run all day on saturday?  By doing so, we tie down at least one staff member to doing nothing but dedicating their entire saturday to watching over these games.  That's a huge time investment.  I suppose there could be multiple staff dedicated to gladiators...

The way I see it, if I'm questioning the administrative backend of running this and not getting answers to some of the basic questions we can think of right off-hand - then this idea is still but a vague dream and won't happen any time soon.  A solid proposal might get us somewhere but, right now, it isn't quite there yet - there's still an awful lot of fleshing out to do.

I'm not against the idea I'd just like to see the idea presented as a fully fleshed proposal that covers all the basics.  At that time, we can judge just what it is we're looking at here.  Right now, there are too many unknowns.

[Anonymous]

Since the pens of the gladiators aren't really connected to the stands I'm not understanding how one plans to take a spectator in the stands to being a gladiator.

There would have to be pens that let into the arena floor. The gladiators would start there. Spectators would start in the stands. The stands provide sight and hearing of the action below. Spectators couldn't reach the arena floor.

Does this mean that on saturdays we have two characters?  One a spectator and one a gladiator?  Further, what is to prevent spectators from leaving the arena and running amock in Allanak?

No. Some people would have a gladiator character. Anyone would be able to log in as a non-descript spectator. You wouldn't apply for a spectator character, you'd just log in without a password and be assigned one from a pool of predefined characters (I suppose you could choose the sex of the character if you wanted to).

Once that opens up - people can leave Allanak and just wander around the world.  In other words, we now have Armageddon 2: the Ghost World running.

Nope. There would only be one zone in the arena world. It would contain the arena and little else. The gate to the arena would be closed during the matches so no one gets out.

including staff responsibilities

Some initial implementation, then restocking beasts and weapons/armor now and then. Maybe occasionally some extra support when nobles request something special.

availability (when do the games run from exactly?)

It wouldn't be for the full downtime. Maybe the arena could start at noon Arm server time and open to spectators at two. The games would probably be over by 3:30 or 4:00.

how the games are watched

Just as it works now from the stands in the Allanaki arena.

how to deal with hunger / thirst of the spectators

It gets shut off. Only have to change a couple of constants on the command line starting the executable, potentially.

how it is explained that death rarely happens in Allanaki games when, historically, the typical result of any match run in Allanak is the death of at least one of the combatants.

That is the case for criminals being thrown into the arena, yes. But these would be contests between valued (even coddled) prime gladiators, not guaranteed death sentences, just like the recent open contest that was held by the Borsail family. Except when the nobles decree a match is to the death.

Okay, I'm not going to continue on with this. Really, the questions all amount to details that can be quickly settled, like who the Templar of the Games is (advertise for applications, pick the best one.. easy) etc.

[Folker]

Crap, I think you're making the whole thing overly complicated. I think all you need is a room or a couple of rooms and ability to enter it as a human/warrior character. Or maybe even any guild, any race character that is instantly approved but has no skills. Or maybe have a character of "Guest" race and "Temporary" guild which has a series of easilly accessable skills of non karma characters.

There we can do whatever we want, fight, chat, discuss various things. Make it semi OOC. It'll be a general IRC, but I doubt we'll be able to prevent ourselves from doing some kind of roleplay in that tiny room of ours.

[marko]

Okay, I'm not going to continue on with this. Really, the questions all amount to details that can be quickly settled, like who the Templar of the Games is (advertise for applications, pick the best one.. easy) etc.

The purpose of my questions is to find out how you wish to handle the things that need to be handled.  I've written technical specifications and things cannot be "quickly settled" without a lot of thought given to it.  For example, to take one of your reponses:

No. Some people would have a gladiator character. Anyone would be able to log in as a non-descript spectator. You wouldn't apply for a spectator character, you'd just log in without a password and be assigned one from a pool of predefined characters (I suppose you could choose the sex of the character if you wanted to).

This mechanism does not exist in the game.  Therefore, you are requesting that new code be written, tested, implemented for saturdays only.  That's a pretty massive undertaking for saturday entertainment - I'd rather see coding resources be put towards something that affects the game when it is regularly played.

And then another:

Nope. There would only be one zone in the arena world. It would contain the arena and little else. The gate to the arena would be closed during the matches so no one gets out.

A further point - you are now asking for an entirely new zone be written and / or copied and expanded.  Again, this requires a lot of time and energy to set up.  On top of that, this one-zone load means that the boot order needs to be changed, there might be zones that are simply necessary by the code for it to work, so you need to go through and load those as well.  You need to go in and disconnect existing zones, potentially alter others, in other words there are a lot of things that can be potentially affected by this "easy" change.  An impact analysis would need to be done for each of these big changes.

Some initial implementation, then restocking beasts and weapons/armor now and then. Maybe occasionally some extra support when nobles request something special.

You are requesting new coded functions that don't exist, a new zone that does not exist, staff watching a saturday queue (that does not exist), turning off hunger / thirst (again new code) and this doesn't even lead into the oversight of the games while they are happening.  In other words, what you are proposing is not simple or easy and isn't clearly defined yet.

Again, I'd like to see a fully defined spec that we can sit down and look at and then understand what it is being requested.  From what I've seen, this particular suggestion is a lot of work to get going and I don't see the benefits from doing it.  I like the idea, in theory, but this implementation seems a bit much to do.

[Bebop]

I don't be a nay sayer and all but the point of Saturday downtime is.  Downtime.

If you prefer to relax on Saturday, your weekday character wouldn't suffer by your not attending the arena.

It kind of makes Arm into a hack and slash one day a week, meh.

Maybe, if it were some kind of free-for-all bloodfest, but that isn't the idea. It would be like the arena matches that have been held before, except that people would have a lot of time to think about things, plan for it, and grow into the gladiator concept.

I miss Arm on Saturdays as much as the next person but I'm not talking about downtime for me.  I'm talking about downtime for the IMMs.  Who's going to set this up, who's going to code it so people can't run amuk, and approve two sets of characters now instead of one.  People are obviously going to have to stay in character, what IMM is going to have to take away from improving the game on a Saturday to come monitor this?

People can't starve to death etc etc, but yet it's still going to effect the game world?  It's not even like it's really Armageddon.  Are nobels going to be forced to dedicate this, what about Templarate?  Do these arena characters only play, and only train on Saturday?  Are they all slaves, and captured gladiators.  How do you get into the personality and background.  How do they train?  How are spectators admitted if the rest of the game is off limit?  How long are these games going to last?

The effort and complications to me don't seem worth it to me.  I still think it would be alot more similar to hack and slash, kind of a half done thing on Saturdays unless there is a lot of organization and rules put into it.  And even then who is going to oversee all this?

I know it -could- be done, but the IMMs have a lot of things to work on, hence Saturday down time so they can do it.  From what I gather there's a large list of things they are working on.  Saturday down time, is for just that, not to add a whole 'nother slate of work.  Plus having these constant battles will really decrease the glamour of the RPTs that the IMMs and sometimes nobels work hard to set up and make sure everything goes well for everyone.  Not to mention having that character you've had for a few days behind the keyboard and getting to compete.

If you were going to implement this why not just open the game up all together, it pretty much seems like the same thing.  Or why not have these gladiator competitions one day a week on a day the game -is- open and have it be a part of Armageddon the same as anything else.  Not some place where people can't starve, and may or may not be spectators etc etc.

[Anonymous]

I think I'll opt to gnaw my arm off in quiet frustration rather than continue to try to answer.  :lol: I've noticed that once people dig in, anything further is wasted breath.

All I'll say is that it wouldn't require anywhere near the effort people seem to think it would, and that I'm speaking from a position of experience.

[Tamarin]

How can you say that, with no idea about what the staff are up to on Saturday downtime, doing maintenance for the REGULAR game?  You just have no clue about how much effort this would take, given the infrastructure that's already established.  If time was spent on this, then you can be sure that things in the actual game world would slow down dramatically.

This is, assuming, that you aren't former staff.

I just see no point to this at all.  Take your saturday off away from the computer, and let the imms do what they do.

[Agent_137]

I like the idea of all of us choosing a particular favorite hack and slash mud to go play on.

[Moofassa]

Yeah... pick a shitty, uninhabited one.. like Redemption..

[ale six]

It seems like setting this up would need some staff work, as other people have said. It also sounds like it would become extra work for noble/templar PCs, if they're in charge of arranging events or whatever.

Do Allanaki nobles/templars get to log their own characters in during these events? If so, you're giving them time to plot and roleplay their PCs when no one else can. If not, it'd be hard for them to arrange anything.

If they are allowed to play, will other players be able to see them? Learning the names/sdescs of important figures isn't exactly trivial information and players of desert elves or Tulukis may not want to be exposed to it OOCly.

If players can only log in as generic spectators or gladiators, would this really be all that fun? I think after a few weeks of watching people beat on each other with the combat code, it would get boring for everyone involved. If you wanted to make it less boring you would have to connect it to the game world more, or let people play persistent characters. All of a sudden we're developing second PCs to play on Saturdays either as gladiators or spectators. Roleplaying somebody in such a narrow existance doesn't really appeal to me that much.

Just seems like a lot of fuss over a Saturday. Why not just leave your computer behind and go play outside instead?

[Anonymous]

It seems like setting this up would need some staff work, as other people have said. It also sounds like it would become extra work for noble/templar PCs, if they're in charge of arranging events or whatever.

I believe that after some initial effort, it would take one person to run the whole show. The gladiators wouldn't need much attention, just the opportunity to train with each other and practise strutting about in an amusing manner.

Do Allanaki nobles/templars get to log their own characters in during these events? If so, you're giving them time to plot and roleplay their PCs when no one else can. If not, it'd be hard for them to arrange anything.

No. All they'd need to do is schedule the matches. Who is going to face who or what in what order. Whether it's just a battle, a death match, or whether clemency of the crowd is allowed. It could all fit into half a page of text (except if they decide to do something special occasionally). Then the Templar of the Games would follow this program.

If players can only log in as generic spectators or gladiators, would this really be all that fun? I think after a few weeks of watching people beat on each other with the combat code, it would get boring for everyone involved.

This is a fair question. I think a lot would depend on how good the gladiator PCs were at putting on a show. Remember too that it doesn't have to be an awesome experience every week to be worthwhile. And if it gets stale at the rate once a week, then it could be run more intermittently.

Just seems like a lot of fuss over a Saturday. Why not just leave your computer behind and go play outside instead?

I don't know, why do anything at all? Why play Arm or even crawl out of bed in the morning? Because it has the potential to be fun or at least interesting.

[Anonymous]

It also sounds like it would become extra work for noble/templar PCs, if they're in charge of arranging events or whatever.

Also, I would hope that it would be fun for the nobles to do this, rather than "work".

To toss another idea into the pot, some of the gladiators could be of races that PCs don't generally play in the game. Like a gith or braxat or johzal.

[Anonymous]

How can you say that, with no idea about what the staff are up to on Saturday downtime, doing maintenance for the REGULAR game?  You just have no clue about how much effort this would take, given the infrastructure that's already established.  If time was spent on this, then you can be sure that things in the actual game world would slow down dramatically.

Aren't you guilty of the very thing you're accusing me of? What do you know about what the staff does? Why do so many people presume to speak for them when the staff is capable of commenting for themselves here on the GDB (and often does)?

This is, assuming, that you aren't former staff.

In fact I was. A long time ago and not a storyteller of consequence, nor do I presume to speak for the staff now in any way. But it left me with a better knowledge of Arm's underpinnings than most players likely have. What I really was referring to though was years of professional programming experience, a period of tenure at the head of a prominent LPMud during its heyday, and some detailed knowledge of how DIKU muds work (and Arm is still has a DIKU mud core, even with all of its modifications). Maybe now you'll admit I just might have a clue of what I'm talking about?

I just see no point to this at all.  Take your saturday off away from the computer, and let the imms do what they do.

Haha... probably some ancestor of yours saw no point at all in the wheel when so many healthy slaves were available to roll blocks of stone along logs. Just kidding, but you really don't see it as having any potential for fun?

[Bogre]

Hey, I've got an idea. How about a couple of us players who know how to code download a codebase and just fix it so we can all play gladiator ness on Saturdays? We'd have a couple of players being Templars of the Games, a few being gladiator/masters or whatever, and the rest playing guest spectators or their gladiators. Then it wouldn't require any imm support, it would be solely the efforts of those players who are interested in this idea.

[Tamarin]

I really don't see the potential for fun.  And considering that the staff had to implement rules governing all sorts of things like custom items, player run clans, etc etc because there were just too many requests, I feel that this would simply add to that pile.

And quite frankly, there have been so many wicked additions to the code within the actual game over the past 8 months alone.  My props go out to Tiernan and the other coders.  I really doubt they'd have had time to make all these additions if they had been focused on putting in a silly (imho) gladiator thing to satiate the need for saturday downtime gratification.

If it's a choice between 12-14 extra hours of playtime that doesn't affect the game world one iota, or new additions like the biography command...sorry.  New additions win every time.

[Anonymous]

If it's a choice between 12-14 extra hours of playtime that doesn't affect the game world one iota, or new additions like the biography command...sorry.  New additions win every time.

Uhuh. Guess who suggested the biography command? Would you have been calling that silly too before it was implemented?

[Supreme Allah]

I like the idea. I think it has the potential to be a good deal of fun.

I don't know much about what's involved codewise, and I won't claim to by commenting from that perspective.

[Yokunama]

I have mixed feelings about the idea.

[Tamarin]

Uhuh. Guess who suggested the biography command? Would you have been calling that silly too before it was implemented?

If you're implying that you were the one who suggested it, and that by doing so it makes your support of this gladiator proposal more valid, then I suggest that you stop posting anonymously.  This feature, in some way shape or form, has been floating in the counsciousness of the player base for a while (usually as the want to be able to include extended backgrounds somehow).

I would have never called the bio command silly.  I think it's a fantastic idea, one that was desperately needed.  And besides, you're comparing apples and oranges.  The bio command is a system to trace and develop a record of your character over an extended period of time.  This adds color and continuity to the game in a real, tangible way.  Saturday downtime arena matches do not.

At any rate, I've stated my opinion.  If the staff really feel that this would be a worthwhile addition, fine.  I just hope that it doesn't at all affect the game that's up during the other 6 days of the week.

[Anonymous]

At any rate, I've stated my opinion.

Yes. That's all you really needed to do in the first place. You know, instead of trying to tell me I have no clue, that my ideas are silly and forth. But I forgive you.  :lol:

[marko]

Well, Anonymous Kank, I'd feel better about the validity of your posts if you posted under some sort account name.  I'm not sure why you are posting anonymously but I guess you have your reasons.  

Look, if you are so great at this stuff (and I'm not going to pass judgement on that at all since you may very well be) and you clearly are seeing something I'm not (it's been years since I did any coding) then please - enlighten me.  Show me how what you are proposing is simple and easy do to.

By doing so you'll gain a convert and, beyond that, you'll have the base of a proposal that can be sent to the staff who can read it and go, "Hey, this won't be so difficult as it might be."

In the end, it doesn't really matter, you have some vision and I'm rather muddled by it.  My seeing the vision isn't important.  

The idea, itself, has merit but I don't see it being easy from what you've put forth.

[Maybe42or54]

I just want to be a gladiator.

[Tlaloc]

There's no reason you can't play a gladiator.

[Yokunama]

I just want to be a gladiator.

A gladiator covered in honey?

[spawnloser]

Regardless of how easy it is, I still think it silly to open up yet another copy of Arm to run so that people can play "Armageddon, Hack 'n' Slash Edition."

If you want hack 'n' slash, go do hack 'n' slash on some other mud during the downtime.  I think Agent and Moofasa liked my idea originally, we all pick one hack 'n' slash mud to go run amok on together and kill each other.

Of course, we'd have to make sure that the mud we picked suited our purposes...but that shouldn't be hard.

[Cuusardo]

With all the other hack and slash muds out there, why would you want to turn the best roleplay mud into one of them, even if only for a few hours?

[Seeker]

I think its an interesting idea, but I am not so much for it.

This alternate Saturday-only world would not BE ArmageddonMUD.  It wouldn't answer my cravings for that damnable "what happens next"?

Love the game, but this sounds like methadone to me.

For my time, give me the real stuff, or leave me sweating and shaking.


Seeker

[mansa]

This alternate Saturday-only world would not BE ArmageddonMUD.  It wouldn't answer my cravings for that damnable "what happens next"?

I think that's the best reason for not implementing the idea.  It's not going to be the same _game_ in no way at all.

[Yokunama]

If there was any "Saturday Games", I think i'd spend most of my time idling until the actual game was back up.

[Anonymous]

So all the past arena matches held in Allanak have just been hack'n'slash fests then?

To me, hack'n'slash is running around with a pack of buddies killing everything in sight. Not (somewhat choreographied even) selected battles between contestants, held in series over periods of weeks allowing people to build up personalities, favorites and so forth.

But this is all just idle talk since there hasn't been any indication of staff interest. You're not going to see any Saturday Games, so relax.

[moab]

I think the staff stated (in many past threads on Saturday) that they are d@mn busy on Saturdays.  And why have someone put in coding time or anything on a project other than Armageddon?

Rather, one of us geeks should put up a mud, give everyone rights to edit stuff and go at it like the demigods we would be.

:-D

[marko]

To me, hack'n'slash is running around with a pack of buddies killing everything in sight. Not (somewhat choreographied even) selected battles between contestants, held in series over periods of weeks allowing people to build up personalities, favorites and so forth.

By your definition, no they were not hack'n'slash.

A lot of people put a lot of effort into those games.  Some imms spent hours upon hours setting them up and running them.  The only thing is that they were to the death.  The winners became favorites.  

I don't see the purpose of this post.

I tend to get annoyed at anyone that disparages (or appears to) the efforts of others when they have attempted to make the game better for those around them.

[spawnloser]

Okay, maybe these so called 'Saturday Games' wouldn't be as hack 'n' slashy as other muds...but what is the point?

If it was to further story through this House's gladiator fighting this House's gladiator, why not have it during an RPT?

If it isn't story advancing, though, it's just a combat-fest...or hack 'n' slash.

Look, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be fun.  Hell, if they IMMs would let us do it, I'd be all up on this...I just know that it's been said, as others have, that the IMMs are pretty busy on Saturdays.  Why add to their load, as they would have to have some involvment in such a project...unless it truly added to the game as a whole.  What they're normally doing on a Saturday is improving the game for the rest of the week.  I'm content with that.

[Anonymous]

Of course the arena matches held in Allanak during normal uptime were not hack'n'slash. So why if they are transposed to Saturday do they suddenly become hack'n'slash like previous posters are asserting? That was the point I was making.

Look, people, step back, take a deep breath and read what you're writing. I came on the board to post a simple idea. Instead of just saying you'd not participate and don't see how the idea would add anything to Arm, you've gone on some sort of pack vendeta to try to make me wrong. I don't appreciate it, especially the veiled (and not so veiled) insults, so knock it off.

[Anonymous]

Just to be crystal clear, my previous post was in response to marko's latest post.

[mansa]

So all the past arena matches held in Allanak have just been hack'n'slash fests then?

They have been for the political schemes killing off certain players and thieves.  
They have been for the burglars robbing you while you go watch the event.
They have been for the thieves stealing from you in the crowds.
They have been for scouting out possible employees.
They have been for betting and gambling and making lots of money.
They have been for arresting certain shady people who show up for the fun.

If you remove all of that, and just have people killing each other, and NOT being able to affect the REAL GAME at all, it just becomes a poor substitute.

All my examples CANNOT happen on a 'saturday arena match' because you cannot log in with your character to make it happen.

[marko]

Just to be crystal clear, my previous post was in response to marko's latest post.

Huh?

I said I like the idea in principle and all I asked was for a further explaination of it.

Instead of just saying you'd not participate and don't see how the idea would add anything to Arm, you've gone on some sort of pack vendeta to try to make me wrong. I don't appreciate it, especially the veiled (and not so veiled) insults, so knock it off.

I'm not understanding... I really am at a loss.  I wish to see a fleshed out proposal that takes into consideration all things and shows that I am clearly missing something - 'cause, apparently, I am.  I suspect this would be complicated to do you say it'll be easy - so I'm waiting to see how it'll be easy.  I don't mind being wrong.  I often am.  I'm wrong about a lot of stuff so I'm hoping I'm shown where my lack of understanding is.  

Anyway, mansa et al make a great point - if everything about the games are stripped away and it's just arena matches why don't we just go to some H&S mud and take it over (or one of the other RPIs...heh).

[spawnloser]

So all the past arena matches held in Allanak have just been hack'n'slash fests then?

[stuff that the games are for]

If you remove all of that, and just have people killing each other, and NOT being able to affect the REAL GAME at all, it just becomes a poor substitute.

All my examples CANNOT happen on a 'saturday arena match' because you cannot log in with your character to make it happen.

This was the point I was making...if it's not part of the game, what's the point to putting the effort into this?

[Anonymous]

First all all, there's RP for RP's sake. Still in the Armageddon-like setting with templars, Arm creatures and so forth. Many people here have stated how much they love to RP and that the character (or even keeping the character alive) doesn't matter so much as the experience.

Secondly, it allows a for a full and complete set of gladiators without detracting from the player population during uptime, which has been a concern often stated in the past.

Thirdly, it could have an influence on the normal uptime characters in many of the same ways the occasional during-the-week arena matches do. They'd get to pick favorites, talk about who is going to win the next rounds, someone could even run a betting service. The nobles could issue secret instructions to the Templar of the Games, etc.

Anyhow, I'm going to leave it at that. Thanks for your opinions and concerns. It seems that the general consensus is that it wouldn't be worth doing, so that's that.

[Ktavialt]

This alternate Saturday-only world would not BE ArmageddonMUD.  It wouldn't answer my cravings for that damnable "what happens next"?

I think that's the best reason for not implementing the idea.  It's not going to be the same _game_ in no way at all.

So? If the staff had the time to do it, why not? So what if it won't be the
same game? Don't log in. It isn't like it will somehow screw with the other
93% of the time that the mud is up and running the regular way.

Probably too much of a hassle to setup, but if it were, I think it would be fun.

- Ktavialt

[mansa]

This alternate Saturday-only world would not BE ArmageddonMUD.  It wouldn't answer my cravings for that damnable "what happens next"?

I think that's the best reason for not implementing the idea.  It's not going to be the same _game_ in no way at all.

So? If the staff had the time to do it, why not? So what if it won't be the
same game? Don't log in. It isn't like it will somehow screw with the other
93% of the time that the mud is up and running the regular way.

Probably too much of a hassle to setup, but if it were, I think it would be fun.

- Ktavialt

It's another game.  It then becomes two games.  Why don't we all play something else to kill each other instead of an Armageddon clone?  Like CounterStrike or WoW or Diablo II or Starcraft?

[Cale_Knight]

I would totally be in for a Saturday Armageddon Starcraft league.

[Delirium]

Starcraft..

I'd be in.  Fuck yes.

Now to find the CD...

[Ktavialt]

It's another game.  It then becomes two games.  Why don't we all play something else to kill each other instead of an Armageddon clone?  Like CounterStrike or WoW or Diablo II or Starcraft?

Because some people would prefer an Armageddon clone than Counterstrike
or WoW or Diablo II or Starcraft? I don't see what the real big problem is
with the concept, it could be fun.

That said, I'm also saying that doing this 'Saturday Games' would probably
be too time intensive for the staff to get started and coordinate. I mean there
are probably ways to get around this such as having some players be given
the ability in an incredibly restricted way to animate npc's and do admin stuff
but even setting up that would take probably a good long time.

- Ktavialt

[spawnloser]

Starcraft..

I'd be in.  Fuck yes.

Now to find the CD...

This statement so matches what I would have to say that I'll just do this.

Oh, and Ktavialt...I'm sorry, but I DOUBT they would give any players the ability to do any admin stuff.

[Cuusardo]

Me and JGG used to do Saturday Diablo 2.  We played other times during the week too, and it was quite enjoyable.  I would have loved to have gotten more Armers into it, but oh well.  It was nice to play a brainless graphic game once in a while to relieve the stress of having to read all that text and wonder what's going to happen next.

Go graphic!

[Tamarin]

I got into diablo2 with ninjamansa for a little while.  Good times.

[Moofassa]

I pwn starcraft.

[Bogre]

Hmm...anyone play Battlefield 2?

We could get together and have a Arm Squad.

[Cale_Knight]

I have Diablo II (plus expansion set), Starcraft, and Warcraft III (no expansion set). I'd be up for playing any of those on a lazy Saturday afternoon.

[Ktavialt]

Oh, and Ktavialt...I'm sorry, but I DOUBT they would give any players the ability to do any admin stuff.

Wow, when you use caps all of a sudden I realized how stupid my comment
was... oh wait, no I didn't...

I think they would. Keep in mind that while I say that the 'Saturday Games'
is a neat idea, I realize it would probably take a whole lot of coding to get
it created, and probably has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, and
even my preference would be for the time spent doing other things. However,
given that it could have been made where very restricted, narrowly-tailored,
immortal-type commands could be given to a character just to keep an arena
thing going, I don't see why they wouldn't.

- Ktavialt

[bloodfromstone]

First and foremost, I think the original idea is one that has some merit, but would take too much work and upkeep to actually go through. It is downtime for a reason, after all.

Secondly, if it did happen, it should be connected to the rest of the game in no form or fashion. Nobles and templar should not arrange anything for it, should not gain anything for it, should not lose anything for it. If other characters aren't involved, neither are they.

And lastly, why does everything devolve into name calling and insulting? I know it's in the minority on this post, but c'mon. We're all playing the same game for the same fun, right? I wish people could chill and enjoy.

[The Anonymous Kank]

I realize it would probably take a whole lot of coding to get it created

Everyone keeps saying this and it's not true.

Let me list what would need to be done then.

1. Copy Arm to a new directory tree.
2. Remove all characters and character-related information, save for one immortal.
3. Remove all zones except for the Allanak zone containing the arena. Copy useful objects into this zone and delete the rest.
4. Delete all the unnecessary rooms in the remaining zone and lock the arena gate.
5. Flesh out the arena as necessary with separate compounds for each stable of gladiators (don't want gladiators from different Houses getting too friendly with each other).
6. Allow each compound a viewpoint on the arena to watch other gladiators fight (just some object that relays text messages; they already exist).
7. Add a spectator login option and define a bunch of spectator characters (this is probably the point that needs the most work). The spectators will simply appear where they were last logged out, namely in the stands.
8. Create the Templar of the Games character.
9. Populate the arena with some soldiers for the Templar, beasts in cages available to be released, a few NPCs to add flavor (e.g. gatekeepers and trainers), various armories of weapons and armor. Remember you don't need to do everything at once. If gladiators start requesting exotic weapons and such, they can be added in as needed.
10. Have the Hall of Kings let each gladiator point at his or her House to be moved to the associated compound. (Okay, so you need to keep one room of one extra zone).
11. Set the timers for hunger and thirst to some huge number so that they effectively don't tick down before the year 2050.
12. Fire it up early on Saturday on 4050 and start accepting gladiator applications.

There may be a couple of details left off this list but I'm sure it could be done in one week by one persistent person with coding access.

[spawnloser]

Oh, and Ktavialt...I'm sorry, but I DOUBT they would give any players the ability to do any admin stuff.

Wow, when you use caps all of a sudden I realized how stupid my comment
was... oh wait, no I didn't...

Why are people taking things personally?  I capped something for emphasis and you take it as if I'm trying to change your mind about something?  Chill, man.  I stated my opinion on the likelihood of this happening, and stand by it still, that was all.  Ask them yourself, if you would like.  I don't care enough because I still don't see the need to go through this all...as you've said, lots of coding?  Please, put that towards improving the game for us to enjoy for more than 8 hours of the week.

[Halaster]

So? If the staff had the time to do it, why not?

There's your answer.

In general, I think this is an interesting idea, and could probably be a lot of fun.  However, the work involved to set it up would take away from the time we put into the 'real' game.  And that's just not something we're likely to do, because we have limited time available, and we'd rather spend that on the 'real' game.

[Moofassa]

You could get a non-imm to build a cheesy little arena area...

Heckin' noodles, it could be as easy as starting up a mud, with just the arena area.

.... ....

[Cenghiz]

I've a better idea.. Why don't we seek an H&S MUD, then hijack it every Saturday?
We would RP being warriors, elementalists and defilers suddenly sucked into a dark gate, into another world. We would even form -hopeless- plots to bind together and gain enough power to open a gate back to Zalanthas - home.. (Darn.. Or we wouldn't.. Where can be worse than Zalanthas?)
We all need a MUD where there are elves, dwarves, h-giants and gith. Sorry about you, muls, but you'll have to play scrabble in Saturdays.
I'm sure this can be done.. Give me the adress and I'll be there with my elven mage.

[Moofassa]

What about invading SoI.... (horrible mud).

That would be so much fun, we could show them what roleplaying actually is.

[Cenghiz]

No.. Horrible or not, SOI's an RPI MUD.. If we hijacked it every saturday, we would ruin their own plots.
It should be a senseless H&S where noone would mind suddenly seeing 30 players playing a game amongst themselves.

[Moofassa]

How about something crappy with a small playerbase like Redemption then... We wouldn't get lost and we could all stick together.. but it may take awhile to level up. And then we'd be insta-killed by the uber PKillers.

[WarriorPoet]

I love the idea of everyone teaming up on Saturdays and going apeshit on a hack and slash mud, but... I disliked SoI and didn't care for the Immortals at all. If RPI is a must, my vote goes to Harshlands. It was alot of fun, the little I played of it.

If not only RPI, I'd say Towers of Jadri was also entertaining, along with Godwars(Purely PK) and the now defunct Feudal Realms. My old HnS of choice was wotmud.org, but only because I started there. It's a rather craptastic place, though amusing at times.

-WP

[mansa]

I think we should all play a graphical game.  Like Space Quest 2.

[Folker]

I dont understand, why isnt accursed lands considered an RPI ? heh.

[Klael isn't likelytologin]

Well, something that me and a fellow armer have been talking about for awhile is something like this,

Write up a mud, and have rpt's every saturday, Sorta like 'episodes' of a television series. Like on friday, the gith surrounding the besieged city are going to make thier attack. The imm's plan something fun every saturday, and people log in during the downtime, still rpi, still a cool gameworld. People can log in during the week, but there's much less chance of an imm being around. Keep the playable area small, so people are bunched together, and you can go have a blast every saturday. We wouldn't want to take people away from Armageddon though, so some more thought is needed.

Maybe H&S during the week, RPI on saturday? That could be sweet.

We've already started, but it's a big job. Volunteers? Suggestions?
If it's important enough to the players, we could get it done, but it's not going to be right away.

[Anonymous]

Could form an RPI corporation on Eve-Online. Something along the lines of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitors; the Amarr could always use another loyalist corporation.