The Saturday Games

[Anonymous]

Saturday. A party for the staff (haha), dull desolation for everyone else.

But wait. Must it be this way? What if gladiator characters were to crawl out of their cells to perform... during Saturday downtimes?

Imagine the mud rebooting with only one zone (the "real" zones being in a completely separate folder tree and so not affected at all by the special session). This zone would contain a copy of the Allanaki arena. There would be a Templar of the Games character, some soldiers to work for the Templar, the gladiators of course (second characters that only come out on Saturdays), and a bunch of indistinct spectator characters in the stands that also only come out on Saturdays, inhabited by those who wish to watch the games. The need for food and drink could be disabled so that people wouldn't starve in the stands (or food and drink might be made freely available there).

The gladiators could have an hour or two in advance to their skills (and plan dramatic fight moves together, for the entertainment of the crowd) before the show begins. Each stable of gladiators would be sponsored by one of Allanak's noble houses. There would be a definite "champion's crown" worn by the leading gladiator of the leading house. The nobles could plot the matches to be held during the normal game uptime and submit a program for the weekend.

Naturally wild beasts (captured by hunters for the noble houses during the week) could play a role as well.

[Cegar]

I cannot begin to second the pure awesome that this would... verb.

[Malifaxis]

Someone is watching Comedy Central, eh Cegar?


What about all the northern players?  Desert elves?  Nomadic humans?

[Anonymous]

What about all the northern players?  Desert elves?  Nomadic humans?

All welcome. After all, you wouldn't be logging in as your character, just as some non-descript spectator character assigned by the MUD. Sure it would be a little information your regular character would't have as a desert elf, but knowing which gladiator won the day off in Allanak wouldn't be much harm even if you did let it slip ICly afterward.

[Bogre]

This idea has been niggling at me for a while...and I love it.

You wouldn't be playing your normal character...you would be playing a gladiator character, like the old system where people could make 2 characters.

So everyone would play/train them on Saturdays, doing gladiator things...and then the top-ranked ones might get featured in the normal weekday RPT's that the nobles hold.

[Cuusardo]

If I get the urge to mud during downtime, I go to the mud I IMM on and eat people's brainz.  :twisted:

[RogueWarrior]

Yah know... there's only about three words that can describe my feelings for this idea....










Yah ready for it?












I really don't think yah are.....












Yah might be....









Well... to avoid wasting anymore valuable net space....










I FREAKING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

[LauraMars]

there's only about three words that can describe my feelings for this idea....

I FREAKING LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

That's four words!  *sings*

p.s. I am in favor of this idea.

p.p.s. It sounds like too much work though, so don't hold your breath.

[Cale_Knight]

I'm conflicted.

First we're talking about Saturday-only characters, which I'm cool with. But then all of a sudden the weekday nobles are the ones organizing the games and getting credit for it, which allows them to further goals on their own characters while everyone else is required to play separate characters.

I think it'd have to be all of one or all of the other. Either everyone has the option of logging their real characters and participating and gaining stuff with their main characters (be that wealth, points with superiors, or just RP experiences), or nobody at all should benefit and everyone should be forced to play secondary PCs.

I do like the basic gist of it, though.

[marko]

I would think that such a thing would be completely separate from the rest of the game world.  More or less an OOC gladiator games thing.  People running around and killing one another in the arena - no holds barred.  

Character submission would be loose and easy.  

Arm:  Gladiator Edition.

I like the idea but I doubt it'll happen.  Saturdays are used to change code over so I dunno if having a 'lite' version running would interfere with that.

The logistics of it are also interesting - do we make new accounts?  How are char apps handled?  Is everyone limited to "gladiator" classes?  What do those who aren't fighting do?  They wait in the pens?

Who officiates? As in who allows gladiators out to fight?

Is it just a free for all?  If so, why not just open up the 'rinth and have everyone run crazy there?

In other words, to make this happen from an administrative view I see the following requirements:

Account handling - new gladiator accounts?
- Therefore new Saturday account store / logging

New application queue - possible solution apps only allowed on Saturdays

Dedicated gladiator staff - this takes staff away from Saturday updates (btw, having regular gladiator games with gladiator PCs was a huge time sink for those imms handling them - I don't think the imms involved ever really got the thanks they deserved for it)

New character classes - unless everyone uses the base classes and therefore everyone has the exact same skills and it's all stats based

Handling of those not in combat?  Is it one large free for all?  If so, let's open up a new zone for it specifically.

New policies required for handling OOCness, trading of information, transfer of knowledge, bringing across results (if at all) to the main game.  How many gladiator chars can you have in a day?

New procedures for handling death - since the objective is basically to die a lot of people will be dying within the three hour limit.  

If answers to these issues and the rest that I haven't thought of in the past two minutes can be adequately answered and implemented without wasting vast amounts of resources - I say let's do it.

[Bebop]

I don't be a nay sayer and all but the point of Saturday downtime is.  Downtime.

It kind of makes Arm into a hack and slash one day a week, meh.


I think there should be more arena games maybe once every other real life month or so but this idea ... seems complicated and conflicting.

[Folker]

just have the game set up on a different port. There are a number of muds that have "testworlds" running, so the immortals are able to test out new code on an alternative identical gameworld without crushing the real one if something goes wrong.

[Anonymous]

Arm:  Gladiator Edition.

I like the idea but I doubt it'll happen.  Saturdays are used to change code over so I dunno if having a 'lite' version running would interfere with that.

There's no reason for interference. The data files and executables would simply need to be maintained in separate places, without overlap. The executable wouldn't have to be updated all that often. If a staff member makes a change to crafting code, there's no great urgency to update the arena executable.

The logistics of it are also interesting - do we make new accounts?  How are char apps handled?  Is everyone limited to "gladiator" classes?  What do those who aren't fighting do?  They wait in the pens?

Yes, new accounts. Char apps handled in the same way for those who want to play gladiators. Those who want to watch just log in as anonymous specators and sit in the stands. Those who aren't fighting could train, or watch the match in progress from "the dugout".

Who officiates? As in who allows gladiators out to fight?

The Templar of the Games and his soldiers (NPCs probably would suffice for soldiers). One character following the program set out by the nobles.

Is it just a free for all?  If so, why not just open up the 'rinth and have everyone run crazy there?

No, it is not a free for all. It's a series of matches between picked gladiators, two on one, man vs. beast and so forth. Conceivably there could be occasional special events, with one entire team pitted against another.

In other words, to make this happen from an administrative view I see the following requirements:

Account handling - new gladiator accounts?
- Therefore new Saturday account store / logging

New application queue - possible solution apps only allowed on Saturdays

Dedicated gladiator staff - this takes staff away from Saturday updates (btw, having regular gladiator games with gladiator PCs was a huge time sink for those imms handling them - I don't think the imms involved ever really got the thanks they deserved for it)

Not so many apps as you might think. The gladiatorial contests don't always need to be to the death. In fact, that would be a special event. In other cases, the crowd shouting down from the stands could decide whether a fallen gladiator should live or die. The Templar of the Games probably could handle the unrolling of events. A staff member could stock cages with beasts and replaced damaged armor etc. every now and then.

New character classes - unless everyone uses the base classes and therefore everyone has the exact same skills and it's all stats based

This is how Arm works now. The contestants would be warriors. Maybe a couple of sub-classes could be added for fancing (showy more than damaging) fighting moves, like a form of acrobat or unarmed, but it wouldn't be necessary. I think there would be more fun in developing a gladiatorial personality. Add in a lot of exotic weapons and bits and pieces of armor (or not, since again it isn't really necessary), and let people build personalities around their choices. etc. Conflict of personalities and different mixes and matches to provide the variety rather than different fighting skills.

New policies required for handling OOCness, trading of information, transfer of knowledge, bringing across results (if at all) to the main game.

This is really minimal. If some player of some desert elf knows which gladiator won the honors for the day in the last round and lets it slip ICly, who really cares? It's not game-shaking information, even if it is abused.

How many gladiator chars can you have in a day?

At most one. The program will be played out by the Templar of the Games, and then apps will be accepted as needed afterwards to fill out the stables.

New procedures for handling death - since the objective is basically to die a lot of people will be dying within the three hour limit.

Nope. The objective would be to have a series of entertaining matches. Maybe one or two would end in death, maybe not. Each stable of gladiators for each noble house would be limited to maybe five gladiators. One less for lower houses and one more for the top ones. When a slot opens up, it could be posted to the GDB that apps are being accepted. Or the next application on the queue just gets accepted and the player notified.

[Anonymous]

But then all of a sudden the weekday nobles are the ones organizing the games and getting credit for it, which allows them to further goals on their own characters while everyone else is required to play separate characters.

How? I could see one House or another gaining some bragging rights for a week, but that's about it. Please explain what you mean.

[Anonymous]

I don't be a nay sayer and all but the point of Saturday downtime is.  Downtime.

If you prefer to relax on Saturday, your weekday character wouldn't suffer by your not attending the arena.

It kind of makes Arm into a hack and slash one day a week, meh.

Maybe, if it were some kind of free-for-all bloodfest, but that isn't the idea. It would be like the arena matches that have been held before, except that people would have a lot of time to think about things, plan for it, and grow into the gladiator concept.

[Anonymous]

just have the game set up on a different port. There are a number of muds that have "testworlds" running, so the immortals are able to test out new code on an alternative identical gameworld without crushing the real one if something goes wrong.

Actually, running the full game on one port and having staff making updates to the same data files on another port would be horribly messy. Thus the separate data files and separate executable as proposed.

[Anonymous]

Actually, running the full game on one port and having staff making updates to the same data files on another port would be horribly messy. Thus the separate data files and separate executable as proposed.

It's been a year or two since I muddled with Diku but I don't think this needs to be the case.  If this hypothetical mud was rooms, objects and NPCs from a specific diku zone that was hands-off during Saturday maintenance I don't think this would be an issue.

[spawnloser]

While this could be fun...there are so many other hack'n'slashes we could do this on.  I mean, hell, we could all vote on one other hack'n'slash mud to mob and go schizo on each other in TS.

[Marauder Moe]

Yeah, sorry, but I think I have to give my thumbs-down on this one.  Regardless of what you propose, such a thing *will* require imm support.  Or, at the very least, you'll be tempting them to come watch.  Saturday downtime is supposed to be a peaceful, distraction-free and temptation-free day for the immortals to work on the MUD.

Also... Saturday is my most productive day of the week!  It's when I pay bills, do laundry, clean my apartment, and so on.  I don't need distractions or temptations either.  :wink:

[RogueWarrior]

Not so many apps as you might think. The gladiatorial contests don't always need to be to the death. In fact, that would be a special event. In other cases, the crowd shouting down from the stands could decide whether a fallen gladiator should live or die. The Templar of the Games probably could handle the unrolling of events. A staff member could stock cages with beasts and replaced damaged armor etc. every now and then.

Actually, during the original Roman games, -maybe- one out of every ten gladiators who competed was actually slain, unless he/she was a slave, of course. Most of the time, their life depended on how well the games that day had gone, and how well the gladiator had preformed, as well as how blood-thirsty the crowd happened to be that day. After the match, and there was a clear winner, the loser would appeal to the head of the game, who would give a thumbs up, or a thumbs down, and thus determine the loser's fate.

Honestly, I suggest at the beginning of the day, whoever wanted to make a gladiator, could. If their character was killed, then the person would instantly become a spectator, probably controlling some previously stationary NPC.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of what you propose, such a thing *will* require imm support.

If it turns out to be the case, then a special staff member could be created that can only log into the arena server, to handle that stuff. Maybe the same person that plays the Templar of the Games.

Also... Saturday is my most productive day of the week!  It's when I pay bills, do laundry, clean my apartment, and so on.  I don't need distractions or temptations either.  :wink:

This is the strongest argument for not having the arena that I've seen. I don't have any solutions.

[marko]

Since the pens of the gladiators aren't really connected to the stands I'm not understanding how one plans to take a spectator in the stands to being a gladiator.

Does this mean that on saturdays we have two characters?  One a spectator and one a gladiator?  Further, what is to prevent spectators from leaving the arena and running amock in Allanak?

Once that opens up - people can leave Allanak and just wander around the world.  In other words, we now have Armageddon 2: the Ghost World running.

As I said, the logistics to running this are more complex than they seem on the surface.  

I am not satisfied with the answers given yet - this needs to be fleshed out fully including staff responsibilities, availability (when do the games run from exactly?), how the games are watched, how to deal with hunger / thirst of the spectators, and how it is explained that death rarely happens in Allanaki games when, historically, the typical result of any match run in Allanak is the death of at least one of the combatants.

The arena games that used to be held with gladiator PCs were to the death.  Gladiator PCs were specially approved, they picked certain skill areas that their chars were proficient with, and had greater options to the races.  Gladiator PCs existed solely to fight and to die - it was a lot of fun but it was a lot of work for the imms involved and that was during regularly scheduled uptime.

Another question that I'm wondering about:

The officiate templar - is that a PC or is that an Imm?  Are the games going to run all day on saturday?  By doing so, we tie down at least one staff member to doing nothing but dedicating their entire saturday to watching over these games.  That's a huge time investment.  I suppose there could be multiple staff dedicated to gladiators...

The way I see it, if I'm questioning the administrative backend of running this and not getting answers to some of the basic questions we can think of right off-hand - then this idea is still but a vague dream and won't happen any time soon.  A solid proposal might get us somewhere but, right now, it isn't quite there yet - there's still an awful lot of fleshing out to do.

I'm not against the idea I'd just like to see the idea presented as a fully fleshed proposal that covers all the basics.  At that time, we can judge just what it is we're looking at here.  Right now, there are too many unknowns.

[Anonymous]

Since the pens of the gladiators aren't really connected to the stands I'm not understanding how one plans to take a spectator in the stands to being a gladiator.

There would have to be pens that let into the arena floor. The gladiators would start there. Spectators would start in the stands. The stands provide sight and hearing of the action below. Spectators couldn't reach the arena floor.

Does this mean that on saturdays we have two characters?  One a spectator and one a gladiator?  Further, what is to prevent spectators from leaving the arena and running amock in Allanak?

No. Some people would have a gladiator character. Anyone would be able to log in as a non-descript spectator. You wouldn't apply for a spectator character, you'd just log in without a password and be assigned one from a pool of predefined characters (I suppose you could choose the sex of the character if you wanted to).

Once that opens up - people can leave Allanak and just wander around the world.  In other words, we now have Armageddon 2: the Ghost World running.

Nope. There would only be one zone in the arena world. It would contain the arena and little else. The gate to the arena would be closed during the matches so no one gets out.

including staff responsibilities

Some initial implementation, then restocking beasts and weapons/armor now and then. Maybe occasionally some extra support when nobles request something special.

availability (when do the games run from exactly?)

It wouldn't be for the full downtime. Maybe the arena could start at noon Arm server time and open to spectators at two. The games would probably be over by 3:30 or 4:00.

how the games are watched

Just as it works now from the stands in the Allanaki arena.

how to deal with hunger / thirst of the spectators

It gets shut off. Only have to change a couple of constants on the command line starting the executable, potentially.

how it is explained that death rarely happens in Allanaki games when, historically, the typical result of any match run in Allanak is the death of at least one of the combatants.

That is the case for criminals being thrown into the arena, yes. But these would be contests between valued (even coddled) prime gladiators, not guaranteed death sentences, just like the recent open contest that was held by the Borsail family. Except when the nobles decree a match is to the death.

Okay, I'm not going to continue on with this. Really, the questions all amount to details that can be quickly settled, like who the Templar of the Games is (advertise for applications, pick the best one.. easy) etc.

[Folker]

Crap, I think you're making the whole thing overly complicated. I think all you need is a room or a couple of rooms and ability to enter it as a human/warrior character. Or maybe even any guild, any race character that is instantly approved but has no skills. Or maybe have a character of "Guest" race and "Temporary" guild which has a series of easilly accessable skills of non karma characters.

There we can do whatever we want, fight, chat, discuss various things. Make it semi OOC. It'll be a general IRC, but I doubt we'll be able to prevent ourselves from doing some kind of roleplay in that tiny room of ours.

[marko]

Okay, I'm not going to continue on with this. Really, the questions all amount to details that can be quickly settled, like who the Templar of the Games is (advertise for applications, pick the best one.. easy) etc.

The purpose of my questions is to find out how you wish to handle the things that need to be handled.  I've written technical specifications and things cannot be "quickly settled" without a lot of thought given to it.  For example, to take one of your reponses:

No. Some people would have a gladiator character. Anyone would be able to log in as a non-descript spectator. You wouldn't apply for a spectator character, you'd just log in without a password and be assigned one from a pool of predefined characters (I suppose you could choose the sex of the character if you wanted to).

This mechanism does not exist in the game.  Therefore, you are requesting that new code be written, tested, implemented for saturdays only.  That's a pretty massive undertaking for saturday entertainment - I'd rather see coding resources be put towards something that affects the game when it is regularly played.

And then another:

Nope. There would only be one zone in the arena world. It would contain the arena and little else. The gate to the arena would be closed during the matches so no one gets out.

A further point - you are now asking for an entirely new zone be written and / or copied and expanded.  Again, this requires a lot of time and energy to set up.  On top of that, this one-zone load means that the boot order needs to be changed, there might be zones that are simply necessary by the code for it to work, so you need to go through and load those as well.  You need to go in and disconnect existing zones, potentially alter others, in other words there are a lot of things that can be potentially affected by this "easy" change.  An impact analysis would need to be done for each of these big changes.

Some initial implementation, then restocking beasts and weapons/armor now and then. Maybe occasionally some extra support when nobles request something special.

You are requesting new coded functions that don't exist, a new zone that does not exist, staff watching a saturday queue (that does not exist), turning off hunger / thirst (again new code) and this doesn't even lead into the oversight of the games while they are happening.  In other words, what you are proposing is not simple or easy and isn't clearly defined yet.

Again, I'd like to see a fully defined spec that we can sit down and look at and then understand what it is being requested.  From what I've seen, this particular suggestion is a lot of work to get going and I don't see the benefits from doing it.  I like the idea, in theory, but this implementation seems a bit much to do.