Forcefeed (yet ... again)

[Folker]

Greetings.

I'd like to unearth this topic, a topic that apperently was milled over before. But nonetheless I ask you to share your opinion on it again.

To recap, aswell as explain it to those who 'didnt' witness this topic mentioned before. The forcefeed is the command that allows you to feed a certain eatable/drinkable object to another person.

The good sides to it are many, for example it would allow people to cure others who are unconscious due to poison. Currently,you cannot cure an unconscious person even if you got the antidote without IMM's help. For curing requies you to give the item to the patient and have them eat/drink it which they cant do being unconscious.

The bad sides are abuse, and possible unrealistic matters. Abuse is to forcefeed a poison to a templar and ran off, or avoid crimflag by forcefeeding poison to another, etc. And even if you allow 100% resistance to it, people with nosave will be vulnerable to it. And I'm sure idiots will be able to find some shady charas who keep their nosave on all the time to avoid certain ... problems, and do a quickie lethal twinkage.

Another matter is that an unconscious person wouldnt swallow a mixture by himself, and instead choke on it. That might be true, but I ask you ... HOW were people nursed back to life before the creation of catherers ? Were they rolled over? Did the body swallow things out of reflex, providing they werent laying on their back? Were liquids trinkled in at 'very' small doses? I mean ... people WERE nursed back to life somehow, unconscious people WERE cured in medievil ages. So there has to be a way to get something inside the body while they are unconscious, without using needles and rectum insertions.

So my proposal is simple, infact overly simple to prevent all possible abuse. Forcefeeding is possibly ONLY if the other person is unconscious. If the person is asleep, his body will cough out of reflex, and character will have a chance to react the same way as if somebody stuck a knife into them. Except no harm is done.

Moreso, when forcefed, the one who is being fed is given an y/n prompt. If the person types in no, then the body coughs or just ... not swallows. If he types in yes, then something gets through.

If there is a thought that forcefeeding would be an easy way to kill a person, then I have to say ... even a Jozhal can kill an unconscious mul, if he stays unconscious long enough. There is also a thought that you can avoid crimcode by feeding poison to an unconscious person and looting it, instead of killing him proper, getting wanted, and then looting it. And that would be a true possibility, but is it unrealistic? Is feeding poison to someone as noticable as slashing his throat to general crowd? Plus, the victim can always type "n" Also remember, there are always ways to force venom inside another character without interaction from them, just use a poisoned weapon.

There is a matter that some things are too hard, and simply CANT be swallowed in no way. Well then, let the one feeding rp it out. Chew it into a mush, or use a bowl and a pestle, whatever.

The main reason why such a command is important is to allow physicians or anyone really more freedom. Otherwise a healer or whomever can arrive, get himself a patient and be able to do ... nothing. (Except bandage him to full health, heh) Even if he has all the cures, and all the knowledge needed, he'll be prevented by pure code limitation.

So what possible things that could outweigh the need for this command ?

[Agent_137]

nothing, in my opinion. I hope it's on a coder's list of things to do. hell, it might be.

[Rindan]

I think force feed/drink is a fine idea.  Hell, I wouldn't even make it as complicated as you are making it.  If someone is asleep, a force-feed command will wake them up and cause them to not accept what is being fed to them.  

If they are knocked out, they will accept anything you shoved down their throats.  Could someone give you a poison pill and avoid the crime flag?  Sure.  But once someone is out cold there are already a dozen ways to kill them and avoid a crime flag.

[X-D]

One wonders if people really read the help files.
The reason that forcefeed does not exist is simply because it is not needed and already covered by existing skills.

The main reason why such a command is important is to allow physicians or anyone really more freedom. Otherwise a healer or whomever can arrive, get himself a patient and be able to do ... nothing. (Except bandage him to full health, heh) Even if he has all the cures, and all the knowledge needed, he'll be prevented by pure code limitation.

The above quote is untrue.
Helpfile below

Skill Bandage  (General)  


The bandage skill can be used to help those that are injured, although the skill of the healer has much to do with how much can be healed. The more injured one is, the greater skill is required to heal the wound. A truly talented individual, using high quality bandages may even be able to cure some poisons through skilled first aid. Such an individual may learn to craft their own bandages, either out of cloth or herbal soaked fabric, as well as other cures, such as smelling salts

Also, there may be other ways to cure poisons as well.

Now, the part about wanting anyone to be able to do it, blah, poison is already far too easy to cure.

[Rindan]

One wonders if people really read the help files.
The reason that forcefeed does not exist is simply because it is not needed and already covered by existing skills.

I read the help files.  Should I quote a magiker help file too to show that there are even MORE ways to cure poison?  So you can cure poison with bandaging.  What is your point?  The issue isn't if there are ways to cure poison or not.  The issue is that you can't stuff a pill down someone's throat.

It takes and should not take any skill to stuff a pill down someone's throat.  I should not need uber ranger bandaging to take my thumb and shove a pill down someone's throat.

[Nusku]

take my thumb and shove a pill down someone's throat.

"Is that some kind of miracle coating?"

"Chocolate makes it go down easier."

[Yokunama]

One wonders if people really read the help files.
The reason that forcefeed does not exist is simply because it is not needed and already covered by existing skills.

The main reason why such a command is important is to allow physicians or anyone really more freedom. Otherwise a healer or whomever can arrive, get himself a patient and be able to do ... nothing. (Except bandage him to full health, heh) Even if he has all the cures, and all the knowledge needed, he'll be prevented by pure code limitation.

The above quote is untrue.
Helpfile below

Skill Bandage  (General)  


The bandage skill can be used to help those that are injured, although the skill of the healer has much to do with how much can be healed. The more injured one is, the greater skill is required to heal the wound. A truly talented individual, using high quality bandages may even be able to cure some poisons through skilled first aid. Such an individual may learn to craft their own bandages, either out of cloth or herbal soaked fabric, as well as other cures, such as smelling salts

Also, there may be other ways to cure poisons as well.

Now, the part about wanting anyone to be able to do it, blah, poison is already far too easy to cure.

One wonders if people pause to think outside of the box. There are some things, such as dehydration and starvation, that bandaging and taking pills will not cure. The forcefeed command could come in handy in these situations.

[Tarx]

Bandages don't cure dehydration?  *boggle*

[Jherlen]

I was once in a situation with an unconcious person dying of poison and my PC had the cure. If I'd been able to force feed it to him, the PC would have lived. Instead he died.

I support this idea.

[Cale_Knight]

The bad sides are abuse, and possible unrealistic matters. Abuse is to forcefeed a poison to a templar and ran off, or avoid crimflag by forcefeeding poison to another, etc. And even if you allow 100% resistance to it, people with nosave will be vulnerable to it. And I'm sure idiots will be able to find some shady charas who keep their nosave on all the time to avoid certain ... problems, and do a quickie lethal twinkage.

Just make it so that the target must be subdued before the command can be used, and you'd get rid of most of those problems.

[mansa]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=73764#73764

Ahh.  I remember when I posted this a long time ago.

[X-D]

Notice, Yokunama, since you did quote my complete post, that I was only speaking of poison.

But, to touch on Dehydration and starvation.

Even today, with all the medical science we have, if somebody is dehydrated or starved to the point of being out cold, it is often VERY hard to bring them back, more then half the time they will still die or spend MONTHS in recovery, in a hospital, weeks in critical care.

So, no, I still do not support forcefeeding for that either, being that it is realistic for people who are too far gone to be able to eat or drink on thier own to die. Though, it is still possible to bring them back through IC means.

I read the help files. Should I quote a magiker help file too to show that there are even MORE ways to cure poison? So you can cure poison with bandaging. What is your point? The issue isn't if there are ways to cure poison or not. The issue is that you can't stuff a pill down someone's throat.

If it is in help files available to everybody, then be my guest, quote away, otherwise no. And you are incorrect on the issue at hand on the origanal post of this thread

Here, Let me hi-light it since you seemed to have missed it twice so far.

The main reason why such a command is important is to allow physicians or anyone really more freedom. Otherwise a healer or whomever can arrive, get himself a patient and be able to do ... nothing. (Except bandage him to full health, heh) Even if he has all the cures, and all the knowledge needed, he'll be prevented by pure code limitation.

My answer(s) were directly to this post, which is why I had not quoted or named anybody else. Though you decided to troll anyway.

So, on topic of your post(s) of the subject and Yokunama's.

Fine, Add in forcefeed, on pills, 50% chance that it does not make it to the stomach but simply lodges someplace else, even if its a skilled healer, so they die anyway.

On water and food, 80% chance that the food or water gets asperated into the lungs and the pc Dies in a rather gruesome drowning manner, 10% chance that it asperates and they don't die but now suffer from perm lung problems, lower hp/stam/stun/str/end by 50% perm.

There, thats realistic for your using your big dirty thumb to attempt to stuff something down somebodies throat.

Me, I'll simply deal with the fact that there are already ways do deal with the problems and I will deal with the fact that in Zalanthus people die and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it.

[Maybe42or54]

I hear a new mudsexx command.

The horny mercenary tries to forcefeed you kank honey.
Do you swallow, or cough it up?

I like the original idea too though.

[Bebop]

Why not just make it to where the person has to be unconscious to be force fed?  A person is completely vunerable in this state, why should they have a decision what is done to them?  I think there should be a minor chance of failure, just random, not a skill you have to level up.  The circumstances would probably be to infrequent to make it an actual skill.

You can emote grinding up the pills and putting it down with some water, with most people, if there nose is held and water is put down their throat they are going to swallow by reflex alone.  Or with the minute chance of failure they will choak and die.  But they may have died anyway, so that is just a risk I think someone would be willing to take.

I think this is better than having to wish up to an IMM everytime someone get's in this situation and it could potentially save alot of noobs that I have met that don't realize how easy it is to get dehydrated.  However, this may lower Vivaduan healers employment, unless you abosolutely did not want to risk the death of the PC you were trying to assist.

[Folker]

However, this may lower Vivaduan healers employment,

so does it mean that in magic hating world, the first thing commoners would think when trying to help someone dehydrated is a magicker?

[Agent_137]

I'd just like to say that immortals aren't always around, and that makes for VERY AWKWARD AND UNREALISTIC SITUATIONS. Like tonight.

So please install some type of forcefeed command. Thanks.

[moab]

Can't you just give foodItem to character and emote that you are making them eat it?

[Anael]

Not if they're knocked out, about to die to thirst, in koma due to poison...

[moab]

Anael>

If that's the case, you're out of luck in RL too.  Having just spoken with a pharmacist about an issue with my father - if you are not conscious you are not about to swallow anything.  

If someone force feeds you anything, you will choke and die.

About the only RL thing you can do to put something into someone's body when they are not conscious is intubate them or give them a shot - neither of which is happening on Zalanthas, I don't think.

[Anael]

Yup, I know, I only meant to point out why would some people want  to have forcefeed implemented. Because otherwise, emote and give is always the way.

[moab]

Ah, gotcha.  I thought you were presenting an argument for the imping of the command.   :-D

[Yokunama]

Why not just make it to where the person has to be unconscious to be force fed?  A person is completely vunerable in this state, why should they have a decision what is done to them?  I think there should be a minor chance of failure, just random, not a skill you have to level up.  The circumstances would probably be to infrequent to make it an actual skill.

I favor this to some degree. If the person was "sleeping" while someone tried to force something in them, it would have a very rare chance of success. Thus, waking the person in the process. Though there could be a use of poison skill (Ex: poison <sleeping person>)or the sleight-of-hand command "slip" (Ex: slip <item> <person>) that could give someone a better chance of force-feeding a "sleeping" person.

On the other hand, if the person was in the negatives of HP or had 0 stun points, it would have a 100% chance of success without waking the victim. The chance of success would depend on the forcer's bandage skill if it is an attempt to save someone. Within the cities, it could stick the crim-flag to the forcer if tried poisoning the target.

Blah.

[Cenghiz]

Err.. Even though I was in real favor of this idea... Eh..
I asked it to a few doctors, all of whom agreed on one thing: If you forcefeed someone unconscious, he possibly dies. One in coma, near-death state or such would possibly die.
They also said there's a chance that the body itself may decide to swallow the thing inside its mouth when unconscious because of a fainting or sleep.
So, let it not be implemented for the near-dead.. It still has uses like forcing poison.

[Folker]

When you talked to the doctors, did you speak of slid things? Or of 'any' things? Will mushed near liquid things be easier to swallow, or liquid itself. I mean 'somehow' people were nursed back to health afterall.

[mansa]

The whole point of a force feed situation is to prevent the players from wishing up to request an emergency interaction from the staff.  So that we don't _NEED_ to wish up to the staff in order to ask them to make players have health greater than 0, so that they -CAN- drink the water we're offering them, or so that they -CAN- eat the pill that would save their life.

[moab]

Folker - this is the case with solids or liquids.  It doesn't matter.
When you swallow items going to your stomach you don't breath.  People who have no idea what's gong on will aspirate and die.  That's also what happens when people choke on their own vomit.

[Cenghiz]

Err.. I just asked and... one of them said forcefeeding's more dangerous with liquids.

[Agent_137]

interesting.

well, I withdraw my support of this command due to reality.

good job on research, guys. I guess that "advanced" bandaging where you can cure poisons is worth something sensible afterall.

[Folker]

Well then once again, how are people nursed back to health if feeding them while they're unconscious is not a possibility?

[Maybe42or54]

Honey?

[EvilRoeSlade]

Well then once again, how are people nursed back to health if feeding them while they're unconscious is not a possibility?

Injections.  Injections that don't exist on Zalanthas.  People who fall into a coma WILL die, but that's life in the stone age for you.

[Folker]

People were nursed back in the dark ages and before. Injections didnt exist then either.

[X-D]

So, doing a bit of research, and you know, I cannot find any instances (documented non-fiction) Where people were kept fed and watered while in a coma more then 200 years ago and lived. If they don't wake up on thier own, they die.

So, to the people claiming that people were nursed back to health in the dark ages and whatnot, Are you sure that they were in a coma? Unable to feed themselves or anything? And where exactly are you getting your information?

Hell, most the things I can find show that usually dark ages medicine was not as advanced as zalanthian medicine even and often resulted in the death of the victem..um, patient. Interesting procedures like bleeding and such, mercury baths, leeching, burning (small branding irons basicly, in hopes of waking the person so that they can eat or drink).

[Morrolan]

Okay, I was originally a proponent of "forcefeed" , but the research seems to be showing that  short of intubation (sticking a bendy tube down someone's throat) there is no was to forcefeed someone.

Which gives me a great idea for a spell, if it doesn't already exist: a way to make food appear inside someone!  It's would be an advanced form of creating food!

Then again, maybe this already exists, in one form or another.

This is a job for...Gemmer-man!

Morrolan

[spawnloser]

Yes, medicine really didn't start getting to where it helped people until well after the dark ages...and zalanthan technology is, in general, bronze age technology, including the medicine.  See, in the Dark Ages, superstition killed most of the medical technology already in use...I blame the Christians of that time trying to scare demons with dirt (boggle, I mean, come on).

If anyone is still in favor of this idea, please, go talk to a doctor on your own.  Without incubation or an intraveinous means of introducing nutrients, you're more likely to harm the person than help...a doctor will confirm this.  Zalanthas doesn't have that level of technology yet, or even the general mindset that would birth the idea of either of these methods of helping someone.

Also, if anyone does still support the idea after talking to a doctor, let me know.  I'm pretty sure I can find some gruesome horror stories about that would back the nay-sayers side up.

[O]

Off the topic of force-feeding, but surely that's been answered definitivly numerous times....

Yes, medicine really didn't start getting to where it helped people until well after the dark ages...and zalanthan technology is, in general, bronze age technology, including the medicine. See, in the Dark Ages, superstition killed most of the medical technology already in use...I blame the Christians of that time trying to scare demons with dirt (boggle, I mean, come on).

The period of time portrayed by Christian-centric renderings of history as the 'dark ages', was actually a time of major enlightenment and technological breakthroughs in the Islamic world.

Apparently some of the surgical procedures and instruments created and recorded then were still used until very recently (I mean in the last twenty years or so.).

Just wanted to clear that up.

(I'm going with the Bronze age thing)

[Vesperas]

DUDE.

We have freaking giant beetles and everyone has telethapy to some extend (some far more than others) and.... did you all miss the overshadowing Socerer-King thing?

I don't want to bring up a "this is a game" notion in the argument, but I do want to point out its fantasy.  Make-believe.  While it is a highly believable and realistic game (which is what I love about it), you also want to give a little lee-way to playability.  If there is a time period that Zalanthas is based on, its important to remember it is just that -- BASED ON.  Things have evolved different on our little sand world, discoveries have been made backwards, and physics just doesn't work the same.

Forcefeeding should be difficult, but its possible, in my opinion.

[Aldiel]

This is sweet idea, but I think it should work:

Code Select Expand

Subdue <person>
Forcefeed <item> <person>

Both should require a subdue check if the person is conscious.   Forcefeed being much harder than just simple subdue.

[Maybe42or54]

And I've seen needles IG. I don't know if they are still there though.

[Folker]

Those are probably sewing needles, they're different then medicinal ones.

And yes, as far as I have read, there was evidence of 'brain surgery' being performed in Islamic world, and India. But it's still not what I mentioned about a possibiltiy of being nursed back.

Generally, now that I think about it. Chances are, the 'nursing' began with dragging a person into a better environment, one that is colder, softer and so on. One that doesnt require the body to continiously weaken due to outside environments such as heat/cold, etc. Then they are cared for, worked over with moistened cloth, cleaned and so on. Or perhaps simply slapped at untill they regain partial coherence enough to swallow a bit of soup or water, or whatever. And generally in some cases, even an almost dead person can regain consciousness even for only a few moments.

Are there instances when a person can regain consciousness inside the game while being near death like that?

[mansa]

Are there instances when a person can regain consciousness inside the game while being near death like that?

Magickally, sure.  With immortal support, sure.

But with the automatic regeneration code?

I've been in situations at negative health, where I couldn't be saved even though I had food and water in my inventory.  I couldn't be saved from starvation and dehydration.  Which I eventually died of.

I'm still totally for a forcefeed situation for drink and food and pill items, where the victem is either at negative health, or subdued.  (And the subdue situation would require a third character to administrator the drug/food/water) I just think the playability of those situations would make the game so much more fun and entertaining.

[Angela Christine]

The exact mechanics are probably taboo, but I'm pretty sure there is the possibility of at least breif periods of conciousness from starvation and dehydration -- even after falling to 0 stamina and negative hit points.

If the person has low endurance and is stuck someplace inhospitable like the salt flats, they are probably toast.  The rate of regeneration would be too low compared to the rate of deterioration.

If they are some place with a high regeneration rate, gennerally a cushy indoor room, and they have good endurance, then they might linger on deaths door with occasional moments of conciousness for a long time.  Literally hours and hours of real time.  

I'm a sucker for seeing what happens next, even when the situation looks helpless, so I've spent plenty of time watching my characters linger near death.  Excruitiatingly boring to watch, but giving up and typing "quit die" seemed like . . . giving up, like letting the poor bastard down somehow.  The chance of actually recovering is slight, but where there is life there is hope.

[Maybe42or54]

Those are probably sewing needles, they're different then medicinal ones.

No, they were injection needles.

[Folker]

Hrm, whoa. Alright. If there are injection needles out there, then Zalanthas' medicine is on much higher level then I thought. Though admittedly ... I'm curious what those needles are made out of.

[Moofassa]

It -could- work the same as tattoo needles for Zalanthas. Very undeveloped. You could coat a long skinny needle in the medication and then jam into a random area in the body, and hope it hits the blood stream. Could be a neat skill/thing for house physicians to pass on through generations, the best methods and areas to stab medication..

[Maybe42or54]

Coating the needle would only get all the coating on the skin, or most of it. IMHO.

Then again, I said those needles were injection. They had a needle, a tube, and a little pusher to "inject".

[spawnloser]

Yeah...but those needles are for junkies.

[Morrolan]

There are other ways to introduce something into the bloodstream, that don't require needles.  A cure for poison could be introduced in the same way a poison is--through a cut.  This isn't going to help with dehydration or starvation, but it could work on someone unconscious or paralyzed through poison.  Maybe this is part of what is included in the advanced bandaging skill?

Morrolan

[spawnloser]

I would say that you are probably correct, Morrolan, in the administering of anti-venom through open wounds.

[Cuusardo]

If a needle can poison you, why couldn't a needle cure you?  It seems logical...

[moab]

It is much easier to destroy than create.

A knife can kill you but also cure you.

I reckon, any of us could (if we had to) cut someone else enough to kill them.  Few of us could do basic surgery without killing someone.

[marko]

I like the idea for playability reasons.

I think the subject should be incapacitated - subdued or unconscious.

If not feeding at least force drinking.

You can make an animal swallow if you put something in their mouth, clamp the mouth shut, and gently stroke the throat.  I imagine you can do the same to a person?  I've never tried.

Still, it seems to me that it is within the "realm of plausibility" and it would be a useful playability addition.

[moab]

I think, Marko, that this argument is better than one based on reality.
Increased playability and the risk of permadeath that this might be a good idea to add to the game despite the reality of what happens when you forcefeed someone who is near dead.

[mansa]

The exact mechanics are probably taboo, but I'm pretty sure there is the possibility of at least breif periods of conciousness from starvation and dehydration -- even after falling to 0 stamina and negative hit points.

I'm not going to give the exact numbers... but there's a point where you can and there's a point where you can't between 0 and -10.

The thing in question is that when you're at 0 hit points and beyond, you're dead.  You can't defend yourself.  You can't get up and walk away.  You should be able to have anybody do anything to you at that moment.

If the person has low endurance and is stuck someplace inhospitable like the salt flats, they are probably toast.  The rate of regeneration would be too low compared to the rate of deterioration.

Yeah.  Yeah True.

If they are some place with a high regeneration rate, gennerally a cushy indoor room, and they have good endurance, then they might linger on deaths door with occasional moments of conciousness for a long time.  Literally hours and hours of real time.  

Or days and days of real time.  I know.  I've done that.

Here's a situation that I'll like to bring up:

You're in the Byn or the Militia of some Clan.
You, somehow, make it to negative health and you're starving.  Let's say you're a newbie.  Or you forgot to eat because you've been idling in a tavern all day long and you just sparred and your health was going down and it was a bad day at work.

You're a negative health, and you can't do anything.  You can't eat, you can't drink, and you're dehydrated.

Does your clanmates, watching on:
A) Run and get a magicker
B) Run and get a templar
C) Try and forced the guy some stew
D) Wish up for immortal intervention

Right now, you're not going to do A or B, because your characters are scared to death of Magickers and Templars.  And when you wish up, it could possibly take a long time for an immortal to step it.  (They could all be busy and doing other stuff)

I want to try and make the game more automated so that we can stop bugging the immortals for little stuff, and bother them for larger more game affecting stuff.

I'm a sucker for seeing what happens next, even when the situation looks helpless, so I've spent plenty of time watching my characters linger near death.  Excruitiatingly boring to watch, but giving up and typing "quit die" seemed like . . . giving up, like letting the poor bastard down somehow.  The chance of actually recovering is slight, but where there is life there is hope.

That's the thing.  Waiting, watching, hoping.  When the situation looks dire and helpless, there's got to be some light at the end of the tunnel.

To say that nothing can happen, is like saying that there's no reason to have -10 hit points.  That you should die at -1.

[Yokunama]

You can make an animal swallow if you put something in their mouth, clamp the mouth shut, and gently stroke the throat.  I imagine you can do the same to a person?  I've never tried.

It works on people as well.

[EvilRoeSlade]

To say that nothing can happen, is like saying that there's no reason to have -10 hit points.  That you should die at -1.

...

And then there is the other 95% of the time when you AREN'T poisoned, dehydrated, or hungry, and if somebody brings you to safety then there's actually a good chance you'll live.

Stop being such a wuss everyone.  What good is permadeath if it doesn't happen constantly?

[Jakahri]

Stop being such a wuss everyone.  What good is permadeath if it doesn't happen constantly?

*laugh*

He's got a point.

[Yokunama]

Stop being such a wuss everyone.  What good is permadeath if it doesn't happen constantly?

Maybe everyone doesn't want to have a PC to die when there is something that could be done.

[mansa]

Stop being such a wuss everyone.  What good is permadeath if it doesn't happen constantly?

You can wish up and be saved, or you can not and die.

Why does this depend on the immortals, when it should depend on the characters around you and the code.

[Jakahri]

When you live or die, that is dependant upon the code. Isn't it?

The idea is nifty, but:

It might be possible for mortally wounded people, but it should not work for characters who are unconscious. A person who is in a coma or knocked will not reflexively swallow pills or liquids that I am aware of. I'm fairly positive of that.

I've been in this situation before. A tribemate of mine was dying from dehydration. All I did was wish up to staff explaining what the deal was. They were more than happy to allow me to rp pouring a bit of water onto his/her lips and mouth, then lowering the person's flag status a notch or too. What's so hard about doing that?

[Yokunama]

I've been in this situation before. A tribemate of mine was dying from dehydration. All I did was wish up to staff explaining what the deal was. They were more than happy to allow me to rp pouring a bit of water onto his/her lips and mouth, then lowering the person's flag status a notch or too. What's so hard about doing that?

Here is your answer:

Right now, you're not going to do A or B, because your characters are scared to death of Magickers and Templars. And when you wish up, it could possibly take a long time for an immortal to step it. (They could all be busy and doing other stuff)

[Jakahri]

I've never had a problem with it. *shrug*

If you die, tough titty.

[EvilRoeSlade]

You can wish up and be saved, or you can not and die.

Why does this depend on the immortals, when it should depend on the characters around you and the code.

Why do you request immortal intervention when the code offers a perfectly valid conclusion to your dilemma?

[Yokunama]

Why do you request immortal intervention when the code offers a perfectly valid conclusion to your dilemma?

Why do the immortals reply to these request, offering help instead of suggesting that you take the perfectly valid conclusion that the code offers?