Rank typo?

[RunningMountain]

If you go here.
http://www.armageddon.org/general/ranktable.html

It says that Corporal is above Sergeant. Does that make sense? Is it a typo? I've always thought Corporal was below Sergeant. In all military organizations. Any ideas?

-RM

[Jherlen]

Maybe the Allanaki militia just organises their ranks differently.

[Agent_137]

THEY DO IT JUST TO CONFUSE YOU.

BASTARDOS!


p.s.

in real life,  a sergeant is ALWAYS above a corporal, though sometimes by only one rank.

[Manhattan]

that goes to show how old and outdated documentations are.

[Myrdryn]

Just one of many reasons why spice is illegal in Allanak.

[Bogre]

Who ever said it had to make sense?

[RunningMountain]

Everything makes sense BUT that. Or else Junior Merchants would be higher then Senior merchants. Privates could be the highest rank, Captain could be the lowest. It's the ONLY thing that doesn't fit. While every other clan has it corporal>sergeant

[Manhattan]

i like how after people pointed out the error and the page is stillunchanged.

[Raesanos]

This is a real clan with a large amount of documentation and history.  Structural changes like this are not trivial even if it is decided that a change should be made, both in terms of documentation and in-game support for the rank structure.  Further, the GDB is not an official place to suggest changes, so if you think something should be changed, you need to contact the staff via formal means (email, bug report in game, etc.)  Lastly, I doubt everyone would agree that it is a change that needs to be made.

[Cale_Knight]

Lastly, I doubt everyone would agree that it is a change that needs to be made.

This is a public page. Either the information is correct or it's incorrect. Either way, we deserve to know. I somehow doubt it's public policy to purposefully have misleading information submitted as official stuff. That's both unfriendly and counterproductive. Saying maybe it's wrong and maybe it's not just doesn't get us anywhere.

And yes, I notice that it says "these are broad guidelines, and intended only to be used as such, not as definitive rules." Before anyone points it out, I'll say that it's fairly obvious Savean is referring to how the ranks interact with each other, not the actual order of them.

Just to sum it up: Fix it if it's wrong, tell us if it's right, or remove it completely if it's supposed to be secret militia information.

edit: And if it is correct information (which I don't think it is), it should be specifically noted on the page that in the 'nakki militia, a corporal ranks above a sergeant. There's no reason not to other than to purposefully mislead people, which is not something the helpfiles should be doing.

[facehugger]

Far as I know, the ranks are correct. Just because they do not match with one of the many standard military ranking systems on Earth, does not make them wrong.

Zalanthas, not Earth.
Zalanthas.

[waroth]

Being a former Corporal and Sergeant in the Allanaki Militia, I can tell you it is correct as far as the Southern Militia goes.  Nothing secret about it.  It's just the way it was originally done.  Although odd, it's one of those times when we must once again say Allanak is not Earth.  On that note however, being a former military man myself in RL as are several of you, in the Army, Marines and Air Force, a Captain is an O-3, although in the Navy, a Captain is an O-6 or the equivalent of a full bird Colonel in the first three.  So you can see, even in real life sometimes stuff is backwards in different branches of military.  The only thing I can see them adding to the ranktable is making sure they point out it means Southern Militia and not Northern, otherwise I see nothing wrong.

[Cale_Knight]

That's fine, but it should be noted on the page that it's not a mistake. I know that when I played in 'nak last and found that page (my first character in the game) I automatically assumed it was a typo and would probably have ended up with my foot in my mouth if there had been an active militia corporal and sergeant at that time.

[Maybe42or54]

It doesn't make sense in Real life that A 2nd Lieutenant has a gold bar and a 1st Lieutenant has a silver bar.

I can make up an excuse for it, if you want.

In some houses, Sargeant is higher then Corporal.
In most others, Sargeant is lower.


Who cares? It ain't earth.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Just for reference, the US Marine corps chain of command ranks:

Recruit
Private
Private First Class
Lance Corporal
Corporal
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
Master Sergeant
First Sergeant
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major of the USMC.

And officers go:

Second Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel
Brigadier General
Major General
Lieutenant General
General

This is the US Form, which is very close to arms, vice versa, I think the corporal being above sergeant is a mistake also, but rae is right, should be emailed to MUD.

[Red Ranger]

One solution to the flipped ranks would be to overhaul the default military ranking system in most clans.

I've long been of the opinion that an effort should be made to make up new rank names for the various organizations, or at least ones that aren't so familiar to most of us.  I find that the default military rank names impair my ability to suspend disbelief and immerse myself into the alien world of Zalanthas.  Whenever I read "Private X" I think "Private Ryan" or "Private Benjamin" or "Private Pyle."  Whenever I see someone refer to a "sarge" I think of Private Hudson whining to Sergeant Apone.

Now, the ranks of lieutenant and captain I personally have no problems with, they're more generic terms.  Turin Turumbar was a raider captain and the Nazgul had a lieutenant to the Witch King.

Still, I would prefer to see ranking systems more alien to my Western daily real life.  Maybe something only loosely related to real life, like the ranks of the Sarduakar, with Bursegs and Colonel Bashars.  Or maybe something completely different with newly made names for each rank.

Furthermore, making markedly different ranking systems could help distinguish various clans from one another, or differing cultures from one another, such as the the north from the south.

Of course, changing the ranking systems in the different clans would be an abrupt change and pretty much impossible to explain IC'ly, but I'd still love to see it.  After all, other changes occasionally happen that are tough to explain IC'ly, like new areas going into the game, but (most) every player knows that it was a change and to act as though things were always that way.

Now that I've finished this post, I see that it would have fit nicely in the most recent pet peeves thread.

Red Ranger

[Raesanos]

Just to sum it up: Fix it if it's wrong, tell us if it's right, or remove it completely if it's supposed to be secret militia information.

I wasn't aware the information's correctness was being questioned, merely the degree to which it reflects real-life military structures.  To be explicit, the page is correct given our game structure, but does not seem to reflect several real-life military structures.  If the information is wrong as game documentation, then yes, it would certainly be fixed as soon as possible, but it is not.  This heirarchy is consistant within the game.

[Raesanos]

I wasn't aware the information's correctness was being questioned, merely the degree to which it reflects real-life military structures.

Reading back, the original poster does ask "Is it a typo?" questioning the accuracy of the page.  So, the fact that I wasn't aware that its correctness was being questioned is my own mistake.  Either way, I hope I clarified things.

[RunningMountain]

I was just curious. Didn't mean to stir up any conceptual debates. It just doesn't make sense since I've heard from many people that Corporal is always lower then Sergeant in all other clans in the game. If it was a mistake done 9 years ago by the militia clan imm  at the time, and was just never fixed I think it should be. And like red ranger said, I think it would be awesome if we changed some of the rank structures for some clans, here's some just to spur ideas, in no particular order.

Recruit
Infantryman
Soldier/Commando
Archer
Scout
Sergeant Soldier
Lieutenant Commander
High Captain


-RM

[Cale_Knight]

Sorry for coming off so abrasively in this thread.

But I still think that there should be a little footnote on the page in question explaining that corporal really does come above sergeant in this ranking system. I don't think too many people would say "well, it's not earth" rather than "huh, looks like a typo."

[Manhattan]

Military Occupations
Who keeps the country safe from encroaching enemies and wild monsters? Why, the military, of course. These brave men - and sometimes women train against the possibility that they'll have to protect their country with their lives.

archer - dictionary - one who shoots arrows
bowman - dictionary
camp follower - dictionary - people following an army, making money off of the soldiers
cannoneer - dictionary
crossbowman - dictionary
drummer - dictionary
engineer - dictionary
guardsman - dictionary
halberdier - dictionary
mercenary - dictionary
pikeman - dictionary
pioneer - dictionary - an early term for military engineer
pursuivant - dictionary - officer of arms, ranks below herald, similar duties
sapper - dictionary - specialist in field fortifications
scout - dictionary
seige engineer - dictionary
sergeant - dictionary
sergeant-at-arms - dictionary
spearman - dictionary
spy - dictionary

[ShaiHulud]

Far as I know, the ranks are correct. Just because they do not match with one of the many standard military ranking systems on Earth, does not make them wrong.

Zalanthas, not Earth.
Zalanthas.

Ditto.

But I admit long ago it did not make sense to me, not fully realizing this.
Perhaps such differences are there to remind us this is -not- Earth?

[Elgiva]

I agree. I do not see any reason why "in irl military it works like this" should be a reason why it should work the same on Zalanthas.

[bloodfromstone]

Perhaps there is no real reason why it should work the same way, but the ranks are based on actual military positions, so they have a connotation that some people can find jarring or hard to shake.

I couldn't really start referring to people as 'inept' at various skills that they're great at and expect people to just assume I mean they're awesome at it because, hey, maybe 'inept' means bad on Earth, but this is Zalanthas.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but i really think there are some fair points being made about the confusion that could develop.

[Cale_Knight]

bloodfromstone is correct.

Let's take this page. http://www.armageddon.org/general/subguilds.html

If the first entry looked like this:

Acrobats know how to stop critical bleeding using bandages, as well as construct the bandages necessary to do so. They are also able to create cures using various herbs and brew elixirs in order to numb the pain of those seriously wounded.

...would your first reaction be "Ah ha. In Zalanthas, physicians are called acrobats!" or would you consider it a typo?

It's the same case here. The Web site contains information that directly contradicts what is generally held true. Just because the world is fictional doesn't mean that we can't reasonably expect certain conventions to be, by default, correct.

Again, I'm not saying that the rank structure should be changed in-game. All I'm lobbying for is a single footnote on the chart explaining that the chart is correct. A two-second operation that might clear up a bunch of trouble for some newbie.