Rank typo?

[Delirium]

One solution to the flipped ranks would be to overhaul the default military ranking system in most clans.

Another great suggestion from Red Ranger (read the whole post).

I would caution that the ranks should remain simplistic and easy to remember, though.  To minimize confusion, I would also suggest that for each House this is implimented for (if any), a table is shown that not only shows the ascension of ranks, but that also corresponds the House rank with its general RL equivalent.

Something like:

Code Select Expand

Fluffy          Sergeant
Boots           Lieutenant

Etc, etc.  The only drawback I can see to this is confusion about who outranks who between different Houses - but I think that should be something a bit more nebulous than it is now, anyway.  Let that be something you have to dig for a bit IC rather than thinking "Oh, he's a Sergeant.  So he outranks me."  Instead, you could think, "Hm, he's newly promoted, from what my sources tell me.. that may mean he doesn't have much backing from his House yet.. plus, I hear that his rank is rather low on their ladder"  (Only to be proven horribly wrong).  Not that this doesn't happen any now, but I'd like to see it happen more.

[Maybe42or54]

My proposed order of ranks. (For the southern Militia, in order)
Yellow (recruit)
Swordsmen (private)
Soldier
Elite Soldier
Lieutenant
Captain

House Tor (ranks, not in order)
Scorp
Sand Scorpion
Silver Scorpion
Blood Scorpion
Flying Scorpions (War Mages)
Obsidian Scorpion (Lieutenants)
Steel Scorpion (Captains and higher)

Northern Militia
Trustee (I am one of His Trustee sounds fun to proclaim)
Sparabara (From the Persion Army)
Spara
Elite Spara
Lieutenenat
Captain


Should I just do this for every house, or just stop now before I am shot? Just ideas.

Editted for spelling.

[Cale_Knight]

Leftenenat

Lieutenant. The British pronounce it that way but spell it the same way we do.

[Halaster]

i like how after people pointed out the error and the page is stillunchanged.

You make an assumption that it's an error.  It is not.

Anyway, I double-checked that with the way the ranking system is setup for the clan in the game, as well as the soldiers documentation for the clan (yes, that's right, you AoD players, your member-only documention agrees with this), and in all cases it shows, from lowest to highest:

Private
Sergeant
Corporal
Lieutenant
Captain

Therefore, it is not in error.  The page is correct.

Does it mesh with RL military structures, or others in the game?  I guess not.  Will I change it?  I dunno, but not likely.  Why not?  The amount of work in changing the ranking system in the game as well as the various pages of documentation do not justify the outcome - which is basically nothing meaningful (that's about switching the order of Corporal and Sergeant - totally renaming them and stuff is a differnent idea, which I'm not totally opposed to).

When we first implemented ranks within clans, I'm fairly certain I'm the one who setup the ranks for the AoD (though I could be wrong, it has been a long time - I set up SOME clan though).  Being someone who has never been in the military, I guess I got it a little wrong.  Oh well, bummer dude.

[adrien]

Leftenenat

Lieutenant. The British pronounce it that way but spell it the same way we do.

Ya canadians say it the same way as the british

[RunningMountain]

You could always just rename Corporal to something else. If it's one rank above Sergeant you can call it Master Sergeant or something.

[Ritley]

You could always just rename Corporal to something else. If it's one rank above Sergeant you can call it Master Sergeant or something.

I think corporal sounds better anyway for a top rank. I guess the staff have better things to do in there time.

[RunningMountain]

Sure doesn't sound like a top rank to me. And anyone who is remotely familiar with military rank structure thats being used in game.

[Zacharai]

I'm not so sure that "RunningMountain's opinion" is enough to change settled game documentation.

I'm also not sure that "since it's different from Earth" is enough, either.  It's the way that it is.  Probably originally a mistake from someone who wanted to copy a generic Earth military structure.

I very strongly agree with Red Ranger in this -- if there is going to be a change, make it inventive and new.  And, while you're at it, make some neat traditions that have 'always been around', get the imms to approve them, and then put them up in your clan documentation.  Please, try to make your ideas creative, and not sound like a 13-year-old with a ninja fetish.

[amoeba]

How about just leave it alone because the matter is rather trivial, and does not affect gameplay, only some peoples sensiblities.  I'm sure there are more importaint items to spend time on.

[RunningMountain]

I don't care really. Just a pet peeve that the RL military structure is being used. And is used in other clans, then it's skewed in a small little way in just one clan. Again I really don't care just pointed it out and spurred some discussion on it. I think the ranks could use an overhaul for most clans. Instead of just using the normal real life military terms.  

Oh and the "This is not earth" answer is pretty stupid. Considering "This is not Earth" then why are you using the ranks from real life militaries?

[mansa]

How about just leave it alone because the matter is rather trivial, and does not affect gameplay, only some peoples sensiblities.  I'm sure there are more importaint items to spend time on.

It does affect game play when we use 'earth' terms for 'rank' and then not use the correct 'rank' name for the position.

People have said this before, but if you start calling 'privates' by a rank of 'general' in Zalanthas, so that every 'private' is 'general', you are going to confuse players who are trying to role-play.

I think that if we use the 'earth' name for it, we should use the 'earth' term and rank for it.  If we don't, I think we are making a huge typo, and creating a mess for people to try and clean up.  Why are we making it (and leaving it) a confusing mess?

How about a better and extreme example.  We call every child, 'faggot', when refering to them, because 'faggot' in Zalanthas is the term for 'child'.

Obviously this will create a problem for gameplay.  To repeat what Red Ranger said, we should either fix the typo, or create special terms for the military positions, so that don't have a misunderstanding connotation.

[amoeba]

How about just leave it alone because the matter is rather trivial, and does not affect gameplay, only some peoples sensiblities.  I'm sure there are more importaint items to spend time on.

It does affect game play when we use 'earth' terms for 'rank' and then not use the correct 'rank' name for the position.

People have said this before, but if you start calling 'privates' by a rank of 'general' in Zalanthas, so that every 'private' is 'general', you are going to confuse players who are trying to role-play.

I think that if we use the 'earth' name for it, we should use the 'earth' term and rank for it.  If we don't, I think we are making a huge typo, and creating a mess for people to try and clean up.  Why are we making it (and leaving it) a confusing mess?

How about a better and extreme example.  We call every child, 'faggot', when refering to them, because 'faggot' in Zalanthas is the term for 'child'.

Obviously this will create a problem for gameplay.  To repeat what Red Ranger said, we should either fix the typo, or create special terms for the military positions, so that don't have a misunderstanding connotation.

It is a trivial issue, it does not affect gameplay. (see I can use bold too  :shock: )  The argument about using earth terms is specious at best.  We already use an odd set of verbage in the game.  Even the arguement of this rank structure is different for this one clan than it is for the others has limited merit.  For example, a "Technical Segeant" in the Air Force and a "Technical Sergent" in the Army are... get this...on different levels in the rank structure.  For the anally inclinded, Tech Sergeant is no longer a rank in the Army, the point still stands.

Sometime I think you guys like to argue for the sake of argument.

[mansa]

Mistakes in Earth terms vs Zalanthas terms have affected my[/i][/u] gameplay, specifically when I am in leadership roles.

[Delirium]

Hint: Research ingame what those ranks correspond to insofar as status and power within and without the clan.  Don't just let your character make assumptions based on what you know.  Problem solved!

[mansa]

Hint: Research ingame what those ranks correspond to insofar as status and power within and without the clan.  Don't just let your character make assumptions based on what you know.  Problem solved!

Tell that to every new player and they'll stop playing the game because everything is too confusing and too hard.  We -want- to make things less confusing.

[Hexxaex]

We -want- to make things less confusing.

We do?  I thought new players were for pwning...?

In all seriousness, I've seen corporal as a lower rank than sergeant in other clans, but it's probably different from clan to clan.  I've also seen other clans spell "Sergeant" as "Serjeant" or something.  I can learn to live with it.

[waroth]

I can see how it would become confusing to new players, but I would think only briefly until they are shown or told that corporal in the Arm of the Dragon is higher than Corporal.  

 Of course we all have our opinion and that is what this GDB is for.  I don't think we should get mad at each other for expressing ours.

 I personally could care less if it is changed or not.  Honestly, I'd like to see it changed to be correct according to the RL US Army structure which is what I thionk it was intended to be.  However, once I saw that is was backwards I think I thought on it all of five minutes before I accepted it and moved on.

 Maybe one of the Imms will take interest in changing it pretty soon.  If not, I think they take applications for staff every year or so, sooooo.....send in an app to be an Imm and change it yourself.

[Maybe42or54]

I know that having those as RL ranks helps newbies, since they don't have to memorize so many new words also besides the ones they have to.
I would still like it if one of the city's ranks were changed to be more Armageddon.

And I don't like how I keep seeing a response of "Too much work for too little benefit." (rotating desert rooms for one, this for another.)

And no, I havn't forgotten that imms do things when they want to.
I'm thankful, but..
Every little bit helps, huh?
Since some of the biggest things wont be fixed for a long time to come (Crimcode? That awesome Templar going to morning devotions every morning with all the echoes?) They'd probably be some things bragged about to my coworkers. My mud is so awesome, I can walk through the same room ten times in a desert and like it since the desert is a month long trip from side to side and everytime the room is different.

Sounds awesome to me.

[bloodfromstone]

Hint: Research ingame what those ranks correspond to insofar as status and power within and without the clan. Don't just let your character make assumptions based on what you know. Problem solved!

'Find out IC' isn't always an appropriate response. Most people would probably have an idea of what the military ranks are like, since (using Allanak as an example) the militia, Wyverns, and Byn all use such rankings and all hang out in bars and make themselves well known. Running around asking things that are common knowledge usually ends up getting you made to feel like your character is somehow mentally retarded, when all you were doing was trying to find out IC.

[RunningMountain]

Heh. Find out IC? Click on the link I posted in the beginning of the thread.

[Halaster]

After reading more of this thread, I'm starting to agree that it can't hurt too much to change it, because I do agree that if enough people are used to things being a certain way in RL and it's just all whacked here, it's going to make them have a difficult time RP'ing it.  But, if I'm going to bother with it, I don't want to just change it, I want to be a little more creative and come up with something new and fun.

So, having said that, if you have a suggestion for a rank system for the AoD soldiers, please email me (don't don't post it here) and I'll pick one (or mix and match) that works.

[Ritley]

Sure doesn't sound like a top rank to me. And anyone who is remotely familiar with military rank structure thats being used in game.

I am familiar with it, but Corporals on Arm in the Militia seem to create a certain feeling Sergents can't. After all not all Rankings are the same.

[RunningMountain]

Go watch platoon. You'll have a newfound respect for Sergeant.