Tuluk and Allanak distance.

[moab]

The changes I suggested for kanks very well apply to the other mounts as well.

The question becomes - then why choose the other mounts - maybe there is no need for other mounts.

It's not that kanks are unbalancing - its that the others are rather useless (except a sunback in a fight, I guess).

As a side note - all of my humans have been able to ride everything except erdlus.

[Armaddict]

t's not that kanks are unbalancing - its that the others are rather useless (except a sunback in a fight, I guess).

I think it is that kanks are unbalancing.

The other ones are only useless because kanks are so vastly superior, in every way.

[moab]

Welp, yer wrong.  

[Sokotra]

t's not that kanks are unbalancing - its that the others are rather useless (except a sunback in a fight, I guess).

I agree.. the others seem pretty useless.  An erdlu should be able to support the weight of an average human and a little bit of gear.  I don't think it works that way.  And I haven't seen a sunback in a fight.. in too lon gto remember...but I'm rather dubious.

[Maybe42or54]

Both of them are pretty right.

Kanks are way too good. And Lizards and Erdlus are just way too.. not good.

Inix are alright. They are massive and they eat a shit load.

War beetles are ok. And it makes me feel like Red Storm is a Spartan equivalent.

[Sokotra]

Both of them are pretty right.

Kanks are way too good. And Lizards and Erdlus are just way too.. not good.

Inix are alright. They are massive and they eat a shit load.

War beetles are ok. And it makes me feel like Red Storm is a Spartan equivalent.

Well, my point was that the other mounts seem pretty useless in comparison to kanks which are actually worth the 'sid.  This doesn't mean we should make kanks useless as well.  The other mounts should be made more useful, unless that's just how things are meant to be.  *shrug*

Something just isn't right when you can walk faster than a sunback can run.  Ugh.

[Larrath]

Both of them are pretty right.

Kanks are way too good. And Lizards and Erdlus are just way too.. not good.

Inix are alright. They are massive and they eat a shit load.

War beetles are ok. And it makes me feel like Red Storm is a Spartan equivalent.

Well, my point was that the other mounts seem pretty useless in comparison to kanks which are actually worth the 'sid.  This doesn't mean we should make kanks useless as well.  The other mounts should be made more useful, unless that's just how things are meant to be.  *shrug*

If we had steel longswords for sale in the Salarri shops, priced at under 200 'sids a piece, you could say the same thing.  Being worth the expense means that the benefit you gain is proportional to what you trade away in order to gain it.
The reason why every other mount is useless is that kanks, with their superior stats, are as available (if not more) as any other mounts and cost about the same.  Therefore, they set the standard...and when the standard is set so that one mount is ahead of all of the others in all fields, it is not balanced.

Don't compare kanks to desert elves' ability to run.  Desert elves are a race, restricted by karma, prejudice and various other things.  Kanks are mobs that you can buy.

When given a choice between a kank, an erdlu and an inix, I'd be surprised if more than one in fifty riding, non-halfgiant characters did not pick the kank.

Erdlu aren't useless, erdlu are what they are.  They're only useless because you compare them to a perhaps unrealistically superior alternative.


In closing, I'm not -that- concerned whether or not kanks are changed, but I'd like to point out that saying "this isn't overpowered, everything else just sucks in comparison" is a very, very silly thing to say.

[Agent_137]

It's not that kanks are unbalancing - its that the others are rather useless (except a sunback in a fight, I guess).

Yea, that means they're unbalanced. I don't know how else to defined "not balanced" other than saying "Only one of a given set is useful, the rest suck."

Now, if you want to nerf kanks, or buff the other mounts, Id on't care. but i'd like to see other mounts actually used. I proposed awhile ago that each mount have somethign it's good at, either affordability, speed, combat, carrying capacity, or whatever. Maybe even have one that's good at two of those but horrible at something else. (like affordability)

[Sokotra]

Erdlu aren't useless, erdlu are what they are.  They're only useless because you compare them to a perhaps unrealistically superior alternative.


In closing, I'm not -that- concerned whether or not kanks are changed, but I'd like to point out that saying "this isn't overpowered, everything else just sucks in comparison" is a very, very silly thing to say.

I don't think it's really as silly as you think, heh.  It is a perfectly logical reason for something to seem overpowered when you compare it to something that is vastly inferior.  The question is; is that the case in this situation?  To some degree, I think so.  It's useless to sit and argue one way or the other when it is usually possible that there is some grey area inbetween.  

Right, erdlu are not completely useless, but they do seem 'under-powered' even if you don't compare them to kanks.  It is obvious that some of the other mounts are messed up when you can walk faster than a sunback can run.  Seriously now... I think things like this need to be taken into consideration.   I can't see the code so I don't know how it all fits together, but in my humble opinion I think kanks are fine and the other mounts are "buggy", heh.

Now, how this comes into play with the topic that was originally brought up is that some people seem to think the world is too small or the time it takes to get to one place to another is too short.  I think the playability 'excuse' comes into play here... and actually makes sense.  Also, I've always seen the world as realistically small in a sense that it is just how things are in this particular part of the known world.  Other than that, I think a little RP'd rest stops and that sorta thing pretty much remedy the whole problem.  

And again, just because kanks can move up and down the roads with ease does not mean that they are too powerful.  I've lost so many kanks it is ridiculous.  You take them off the roads and they can poop out like a gremlin running on fumes and four bad tires.  Kanks have many weaknesses, as I suppose is the case with the other mounts, except that the other mounts don't have strengths to successfully match their weaknesses.  This is where the problem lies, to the best of my knowledge.

[moab]

I don't see a problem that isn't a general mount problem.

We already know the game isn't about balance.  This has been discussed in many threads.

So balance is not a real issue here.

If you like kanks, great.  If you don't like them, great.  Some people use other mounts for whatever reason.

If you think kanks are used to much - make a leader character who orders his units to not use kanks for a legit reason.  I actually did that once.

Or make a character that uses a mount of another kind for some other reason.  What's the big deal.

The problem really is that you, the player, are busy focused on bringing your character the biggest coded benefit.

Maybe kanks are faster, stronger - but maybe your character get wierded out by riding on the back of a big-@ss tick?

General Mount Problems are those I listed earlier - about the difficult level of stealing a mount, it's packs or mounting something someone has the reins too.

[Armaddict]

I'm of the opinion that kanks definitely could use at least a small reduction in stamina or speed.  If they're known for stamina, make them a lot slower, so that other mounts have the advantage of being able to catch up to them if they're close enough.

Correct, the game is not about balance.  But I think the -huge- difference in superiority as a mount is somewhat strange.  Why do we even -have- other mounts?  Why would they be bothered with when kanks are so easily superior?  Why can kanks so easily go across the entirety of the known world?

I think making it so that a mount can't go nearly that far would help enrich the desert rp as well.  Make it necessary to camp out sometimes, instead of travel all night because your mount can handle it.

Kanks have a monopoly on the mount trade for a reason, which is their benefits easily downplay the benefits of any other mount.  The problem is...I think it may be a remnant from older days that needs to be fixed.  People oftimes talk about how it's not good that the danger of the desert is from raiders and beasts, rather than the harsh environment.  Couldn't that possibly be because they don't often have to endure that environment due to the fact that they rarely have to -stop- in it?  The freedom to pass right through it easily is too easy to come by.

[Rindan]

In my opinion, a kank is a pack animal.  It is not a great war beast, it isn't terribly fast, it can't even carry that heavy of a load.  What a kank does well is walk a long distance.  I would could stomach a kank's super stamina if its movement delays were greatly increased.  An elf should be able to out jog a kank with no problem.  A kank rider should be an easy target to catch up to for an elf or a raider on a faster beast.

All animals are roughly equal in price.  I would like it if the reason why they were equal in price was obvious.  War beetles should be fairly steady fighting platforms and moderately quick.  Erdlu should be so damn quick that their utility should be obvious.  Maybe make sun backs the middle of the road beast that combines a relatively stable fighting platform with speed and moderate endurance.  Inix... well, those carry half-giants and everything else.

As it stands, a kank is superior in every regards, or at the very least comparable.  Kanks should have a personality beyond "does everything".  Kanks should be slow pack beasts good for long distant hauls and people who need a mount that goes forever.

[Angela Christine]

I think it would be great if "pull reins" was fixed and brought back, that little bit of help from certain mounts gave an excuse to use them.  As it is now the combat abilities of the mount only seem to come into play if someone attacks the mount, which is rare.  The Charge command is nice, but that depends on the rider's skill, and the mount's size.  A docile but huge animal will be better for trampling than a fierce but small animal, erdlus are mean little buggers but they are not built for trampling.  Give people reasons to use mounts that need to rest occasionally.  


Angela Christine

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

I see kanks as pack animals too. They are more common in the south and less common in the north. Since lizards are more easily available in the north, they are more common there. Combat is easier dismounted than mounted, so unless I'm in some military organization that wants everyone on fighting type mounts, I will preferably choose something that's hardy with stamina. Erdlus are just plain lousy, low stamina, aren't good at carrying loads, sure they can peck and bite, but I doubt they can trouble skilled fighters anyway. So it's either kank or inix depending on where you are that are the

common

mounts about. I can use a beetle too, but it seems weird since a kank is much smaller and suited to common needs, plus it goes into my pocket stable.

If I'm travelling from allanak to tuluk, I might stop over in the middle at the outpost. Then again, I might not, travel times is not that much of an issue anyway. It's the way the world is built, space and distance doesn't really equate to time IG, even if it is so.

[Armaddict]

Sewer Rat said:  Since lizards are more easily available in the north, they are more common there.

I was completely unaware that there was anything more common than kanks in the north, either.  In all my play time there, kanks were still far more prevalent, with a few here and there selecting inixes just because they're half-giants or they think riding around on something huge and lumbering is cool for their character.

Like I said before, I think that kanks could be -the- reason that travel between cities is 'too easy'.  The reason that it takes no real rest stops on the way while they easily go from place to place.  The reason people never camp in the desert, since they can ride their kank all day off the road and still just turn around and ride back once it's late afternoon.  Generally, they'll get back in time without having to worry about their mount's stamina, so it's pretty uncommon for people to camp or become stranded.  Raiding scenes can't go down as well, even out in the middle of nowhere, because they run, and there's no chance they won't get back if they get a head start.  Kanks are fast, and they -will- maintain their movement to get to a 'place of safety', wherever that may be.

They're cheap.  They're -extremely- easy to find and pay for.  They are vastly superior to all other mounts.  They make travel too easy and relatively safe.  The more I read into this thread, the more I think it's a good idea to kind of put the -mounts- into perspective on how we want travel on Zalanthas to be like, rather than finding a coded system for the players to follow.  Simply put...the distance between Allanak and Tuluk isn't a distance at all to a kank, and that means that the 'reality' within the game that we all want is being skewwed.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

I was completely unaware that there was anything more common than kanks in the north, either. In all my play time there, kanks were still far more prevalent, with a few here and there selecting inixes just because they're half-giants or they think riding around on something huge and lumbering is cool for their character.

If you meant, by pc population alone, I see most of them riding kanks too. Simply because kanks probably have the highest stamina and value for money. I see downtuning kanks as something that will hinder hunters more. But I was going by vnpc wise as well.

Never knew inixes are meant for half-giants, always thought they are counterparts of kanks, only longer.

Are kanks sold in Tuluk stables? I did not find any there, that's why I assume inixes are more common [vnpc wise] and why they are the counterpart of kanks in the north as there are more inixes/lizards sold there.

Assuming, I am right that there are no kanks sold in tuluki stables. How do tuluk pcs get their kanks? Through getting others to buy, trekking southwards to buy, getting a ride on a caravan to buy, buying from southerners who makes trips northward to sell mounts.