When the going gets tough...and beyond.

[Forty Winks]

I've been wondering lately, if the militia (or any government in general) were just too damn good against quelling criminal activities, (hypothetical situation) would that be a good thing for playability?

While harshness is a good thing, is it comforting for players that their commoner doesn't have to worry about getting mugged while taking a simple stroll from tavern X to their apartment room? Would you as a player welcome more conflict such as this for your character?

And, albeit a minor question, could there be too much conflict for the good of all?

Just my thoughts.
- FW

[Anonymous]

Would you as a player welcome more conflict such as this for your character?

No because there are always those players who will take things to an extreme and open, reduced consequence PC on PC violence can really ruin the playability of things.

Not to mention that totalitarian regimes normally aren't too keen on open warfare in the streets.

[Kalden]

I've been wondering lately, if the militia (or any government in general) were just too damn good against quelling criminal activities, (hypothetical situation) would that be a good thing for playability?

In Arm? No. In Armageddon sneaky folks could pwn the Militia. It's hard to pin down (or kill) these people in Armageddon. They don't fence much, they don't deal much, they have ub3r hiding abilities, and they can kill you with a single shot.

In other games, it hurts playability a lot. Playing a sneaky drug-dealing burglar is hard without the hiding skills you have in Armageddon. The playberbase doesn't allow you to hide in the crowds.

That's besides the fact that Zalanthas is a place that encourages bribery and criminal activities.

If you're cracking down on criminals without being open to bribes, you're not playing right. You're the odd man out in your organization, and you're likely to get backstabbed by one of your colleagues for interfering with business.

Of course, that's just my interpretation of the world.

EDIT: I misread what you posted. As far as I'm concerned, more crime = better. There's no playability problem for your average commoner. I've never seen the sneaky folks out of hand.

While harshness is a good thing, is it comforting for players that their commoner doesn't have to worry about getting mugged while taking a simple stroll from tavern X to their apartment room? Would you as a player welcome more conflict such as this for your character?

Comforting? Maybe, for those long-lived pointless characters who do nothing but sit on their asses and gossip about how comfortable the stools are that day, or how pretty their new outfit is. Good? Fuckno.

I welcome every mugging that comes my way.

[Rindan]

The number of militia doesn't bother me.  It is good to have PC militia and templars around.  The real issue is how hard they fight crime, especially petty non-city state threatening crime.  If there is a magiker running amok, then the militia and templars should be after that magiker with venom and stopping at nothing until the magiker is dead.  On the other hand, I wish that the militia would refrain from purging the PC population of petty criminals with as much zeal as they have in the past.  The criminal population is very small to begin with.  Anyone can take a reasonable guess as to who they are and snag them without much effort.  All the guys not dressed like rangers, mercenaries, or noble aids... yeah, those are probably them.  It is just far too easy to snag all the criminals in Allanak.  Simply pick up all the people that are dressed like poor commoners and PC elves, question them as to who else is a criminal, then kill everyone.

The alternative to whacking all the criminals is for the militia to sink more into the criminal world themselves.  Get to know the criminals, then use them and take a cut of their profits.  If someone comes to you complaining about a pick pocket, don't do anything about it until they bribe you.  When you catch the pick pocket, make him bribe you too AND make him promise more 'sid in the future.  A dead pick pocket doesn't do you much good, but a live one can pay is monthly protection money.  Remember, in Zalanthas, corruption is not only common, it is expected.

Criminals are an endangered species, and so they should be treated with love and respect, like a Koala.

[waroth]

Hmm..sounds like maybe the criminals should try and not look like criminals.  Maybe to be more successful, they should dress like rangers, merchants, etc.  It helps to not draw attention to yourself in the real world as well as Arm if your doing something illegal, eh?

[Rindan]

Hmm..sounds like maybe the criminals should try and not look like criminals.  Maybe to be more successful, they should dress like rangers, merchants, etc.  It helps to not draw attention to yourself in the real world as well as Arm if your doing something illegal, eh?

You mean they should try and not to dress like commoners?  Yeah, if you are wandering around in foot pads you probably deserve a shake down.  On the other hand, the game isn't about OOC trickery, it is about IC trickery.  If I wanted to play a thief, I wouldn't dress like a ranger or merchant or mercenary, I would just dress like your average commoner; simple cheap clothing and a shitty pair of shoes.  Seeing as so few people play simple poor commoners though, it pretty much becomes the de facto criminal uniform.  

"Oh shit!  That guy has a commoner's shirt on!  That means he isn't in a clan or an independent ranger or mercenary!  Kill the thief!"

[waroth]

No, I mean they shouldn't dress so much like the typical thief does: footpads, ebony cloak, etc.  Wearing a brown sandcloth shirt, regular leather boots, etc wouldn't exactly make you in my mind, look so stealthy or thievish.  I belive dressing as you say a commoner does would probably also bring down the chances or you being targeted as a criminal type.  Once again, this is just my opinion and it doesn't bug me if no one else shares it and I do enjoy hearing others opinions as they do tend to change my perception on occasion as I may not have looked at it the same way as them.

[Ghost]

Well, I would say the templarate and militia are not as harsh in dealing with the criminals as it sounds in this thread.  The templarate and militia DO use the criminals.  They are all avaliable to work things out more than I expected indeed.  I could give a few solid examples as to why I use "more than expected" but that would be passing through the boundaries of IC things, which happned not too long ago.
All I can say is, the templarate did work things out with criminals on many accounts.

[jstorrie]

I think the PC militia and templarate in both cities do a fine job.

I do wish that the NPC militia would be a little less... omnipresent. There are parts of both cities (and not just the obvious slums) where the average criminal can get away with a crime decently well, but it is a bit silly that the ultra-guard-network can port in and massacre your lowly pickpocket completely out of the blue for trying to take some bread from another low-down nobody.

Of course, I wouldn't be the first person to ask for a retooling of the crim system, and I know how difficult and tedious it would be. I'd still like to seen it done someday.

[Synthesis]

You know, criminals may bribe the militia, but noble and merchant houses do too, and they have vastly more resources.  When your militia sergeant is  picking up tens of thousands of coins from a certain merchant house for getting rid of certain unsavories, you kill as many unsavories as you can, get it?

In other words, law isn't always an end in itself for the militia.  There are people who profit from law and order, and those people will pay to maintain it.

[Delirium]

Who says the Merchant Houses profit from law and order?  :twisted:

To a certain degree law and order is kept, yes... but in Zalanthas, corruption is a fact of life.

[Cenghiz]

One thing I hate.

>s
Common Tavern [N]
bla bla bla....

The tall figure in a dark, hooded cloak is sitting at the cracked but still fine bar.
.....

This is something I often see. WHY? I really really can't grasp the mindset of having your hood up when you're just sitting at the bar. Not if you want to have the attention of a military PC focus on you.
IRL, really, folks who were the best hitmen didn't look like the Holywood's stupid villains. They looked normal, maybe intimidating but still normal.
The 'bomber', who was caught in six or so years - my memory may fail me - after bombing many places. And he really looked like an idiot - someone bullies would punch in the face and grin in High School. I had once the chance to meet with one of Konya's (a city in the middle of Turkey) most powerful underground criminal leaders, "Kürt Muhlis". He was just an average man, looking old, clean but still cheap. And I knew all around were rumours of how he killed folks opposing him with ease, with his own hands.
Please do get real and get rid of the obsession of wearing your veil, having your hood raised and just sitting at taverns to look cool when you're nothing but a dirty shady type whose life is at stake when a templar feels a little angry that day, or do not take it as an OOC offense when a militia member insta-believes you're a criminal. You look suspicious, period.
In 'rinth, you can't wear silks, but you can still wear cheap commoner clothes. So "But I will go to 'rinth, I need to wear these." is not an excuse I believe.

[Sokotra]

One thing I hate.

Common Tavern [N]
bla bla bla....

The tall figure in a dark, hooded cloak is sitting at the cracked but still fine bar.

This is something I often see. WHY?

One thing I hate is when people get all upset because someone is wearing a hood.  No offense, just a differing opinion I guess... and I suppose it would probably depend on the tavern as well where you might find more or less of these types of people.  I don't see why it matters really and I think it adds to the feel of the game in some respects.  This isn't scooby doo or even some bar in Turkey.  Heh... it's a fantasy world - a game... let things be at least a little more mysterious than real life, eh?  And every person that has their hood up and wants to be left alone doesn't have to be 'old man johnson from the ski-lodge' or whatever... I don't know... I just think Zalanthas is its own world and hooded mysterious people are part of that - whether they are really that much disguised or not.  I still don't see why it matters that much.  Sure, they might seem a little suspicious, but some people go overboard and I don't think it is completely necessary to insta-criminalize these folks in a world where I feel this sort of thing should be common.

[HardCarbon]

He was such a quiet ordinary man..... where ever did he get that collection of ears?

[Maybe42or54]

Simple Solution.


The guard drags you south.
The guard says "I wish they would move the prison closer to the criminals."

Offer sword guard
Yep, the guard will take it.
Barter

The guard releases you and takes your sword.
The guard walks west.

[Kankman]

Simple Solution.


The guard drags you south.
The guard says "I wish they would move the prison closer to the criminals."

Offer sword guard
Yep, the guard will take it.
Barter

The guard releases you and takes your sword.
The guard walks west.

That would be terribly cool.

[Yang]

Read George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four for just how bad a police state can get.

Peace,

[Cyrian20]

Hmm..sounds like maybe the criminals should try and not look like criminals.  Maybe to be more successful, they should dress like rangers, merchants, etc.  It helps to not draw attention to yourself in the real world as well as Arm if your doing something illegal, eh?

This is one of my fav thngs about arm, anyone can wear anything. My best burglar everyone thought he was a warrior cause he was decked out in anything that said razor, spiked, or claws. But I would have him remove everything put on a blakc cloak and footpads and rob the hell outta people at night.

[Tuannon]

That is an age old habit that works for successful burglars, ninjas, pirates and what not.

If you do not look like a villain with something to hide or so on, there is a reasonable chance that joe average in the street will be none the wiser that you are the infamous Second Story half giant or whatever.

[jmordetsky]

Do you think a templar arresting someone for wearing footpads is extreme?

Footpads to me scream criminal.

[jstorrie]

Footpads are like sneakers are to boots. I can see some people wearing them just for comfort.

[Agent_137]

yes, but they could use the same value code that allows merchants to offer values for that same sword.

And for each crime, the soldier could have a set value that would fluctuate with a random roll. And you could even have a roll deciding if the soldier is willing to barter, etc. I could see it happening pretty easily, though i'm no coder.

offer sword
yep, the soldier will take it, but wants more
offer knife
yep, the soldier will take it, and is satisfied.


I assume offering contraband would get you in the same trouble as if you tried to sell it in a regular store. You'd get arrested again. Or maybe just beat up more since you're already arrested.

[joyofdiscord]

Militia weapons, lockpicks, or poisons, yeah, you're in trouble.  But don't tell me there aren't militia out there that would look very kindly on a pinch/tube/knot?! of spice offered up from a desperate no-good type.

[Agent_137]

i thought about that. I thought a militia man wouldn't want to run that risk, then i thought many might already do it.

So perhaps if you offer spice, there's a special roll with higher risk and higher reward to it.

[Maybe42or54]

Someone is going to take the spice and weapons anyway, what does it matter if it is me or the next guy? (from the mind of a militia man. If I were one.)