Metals

[flurry]

I have a hard time believing that the rarity of metal is contributing to a lack of conflict in the world.  We've got a lot of really creative people here - why does the conflict have to be over metal and not something else?

If you want more IC conflict, see what you can do to make that happen yourself through your own characters.   Try to encourage others to do the same.  Praise the kinds of things that you like when you see them.

[Linedel]

Armageddon was originally based off Darksun and in that setting way back when those of us -true- vets started playing it was much closer to that setting. Metals were rare...but not ULTRA rare.

Back in the day, my sorcerer had 2 bronze maces, and one iron one, all bought from Salarr NPCs.  He also had a belt full of potion-fruits bought from the Allanaki potion shop.

The past was not "better," it was different.  And if that's closer to Dark Sun (which I'm really not getting... I've never played it (which is subject to the specific GM anyways), but I've read all the published game materials), then, uh, Dark Sun is a weaker setting than I thought.

Armageddon's metal level is fine; the posters that said your conflict level is based on other things are right.

[Akaramu]

I disagree. I find the game harsh enough as it is, and I see plenty of conflict. I have not ever had a 20+ day PC, I find it hard enough to break 10, and no I dont do stupid crap such as being rude to templars.  :wink:

Keep in mind that not everyone has learned all the tricks and strategies to be long-lived. Honestly... if you knew that there is a secret cult of magickers who track down and kill anyone with a specific kind of tattoo, which is readily available, would you get that tattoo for your ignorant PC or pick a different one?

We already dont have too many new players who stick around. I know of a few who might have been great roleplayers but found the starting experience to be too harsh and frustrating. I dont know what the mud was like 6 years ago, but I doubt I would have wanted to play it with even more harshness. I enjoy living my usual meager 10 days played. I can only bear going through the pain of making new contacts to the point I'm having fun again and that maddening practice of the way so often.

If you dont feel challenged, perhaps play more challenging roles? I could think of a few concepts that are likely to die at under 5 days.  :twisted:

[jhunter]

I'm not saying it's the source of all conflict loss, just one source that used to cause alot of conflict. I'm also not saying I want it to go back to when it was common either, that would defeat the whole purpose...I'd just like to see more along the lines of what Wiz said. Just a little taster thrown in here and there to cause some shit basically.

I remember a time when it was just rare, and things weren't nearly as burglar-proof as they are now...when a burglar stole a metal blade from a noble's house. Alot of fun stuff came about because of that.

[LBO]

Armageddon was originally based off Darksun and in that setting way back when those of us -true- vets started playing it was much closer to that setting.

Yeah and back when you -true- vets started playing halfings used to pal around with everybody, mantis could hang around in major cities and people used to travel in groups with magickers. So what? The game has evolved, become more complex since then.

Back in those days...there was conflict over material things WAY more than there is now. It was taken away to make things more civil in an OOC fashion IMHO. The game was more fun and more active back then.

Fun for those who like PKing people for their equipment. He's got a bronze mace.. kill him! She's got a steel dagger.. kill her! Hardly monumental RP. Oh, and there are plenty of things in this game that people will kill each other over. Why does it have to be metal? Why not kill that half-elf with the fancy full tembo-hide armour set? Thats worth over a year's salary to a clanned PC. If you want to play the kind of character whose reason for living is PKing others for the gear then go and do it. Personally, I'm happier that the game has evolved into something more than that.

The tavern sitters...the proactive, murdering,lying, cheating,backstabbing,double-dealing MOTHERFUCKINGSONSOFBITCHES are what made Arm really stand out. RP is first and foremost, but a lot of avenues of RP have been fucked up by the immortals catering to whining little wusses who want everything to be civil and "fair" from an OOC standpoint.

As opposed to what? Being uncivil and unfair from an OOC standpoint? Hmm, bad call by the Imms eh? Anyway, there are plenty of those dodgy people in Arm. I've met quite a few. There is nothing stopping you either from making and playing the kind of character you want.

You are fucking sissies.

Aww, poor you. The only tough guy left in a world of sissies.

I'd welcome the entertainment and conflicts that would be introduced by the lessening of rarity of useful metals in the game. Right now, the game is sleeping deeply compared to what it used to be. And it is because of the fears of "disrupting" things for material gain.
Hey, check this out...material gain...is a "REALISTIC" source of conflict.

Material gain is a realistic source of conflict. Its happening right now in the game I can assure you. If its not happening as much as before right down at the grebber v. grebber level that is something that is up to the players. There are lots of players out there with nice looking armours and swords, others with jewellery dripping from them. If you want the IG world to be so grasping all the time for material things then your character should be going after these kind of people too. Why should metal suddenly make you go ballistic and jumping on everybody? Its down to the players to decide what they want to do. The rewards for playing a character that is out to grab as much as they possibly can however they can are still very high. Or is metal the only thing that can possibly awaken the killer in all of us?

I think this is the most HONEST response any vets to the game can give. Psssh, I remember when living beyond 20 days was a chore...now it's commonplace...even for some newbies.

Maybe some people have taken to playing their characters more realistically and decided that attacking somebody just to loot them of their nice gear might actually be a bit dangerous for their character? Maybe people want to play something else than a PKing raider / mugger? Maybe the game has evolved to the point where the amount of people engaged in that activity is a more normal percentage of the overall game population? Maybe more players are taking the advice that wandering the desert alone really is actually very dangerous? Also, people are living longer now because of realism code tweaks e.g. gith groups not sending a volley of spears at one unlucky bastard in a group of people and instead throwing them at random targets.

Almost ready to stop playing unless things go back toward harsher days. The game is really beginning to lose some of it's BEST aspects.

Its best aspects in your opinion. It sounds like you are looking for in your face conflict, the on the edge feeling that at any moment somebody is going to jump you and try and take your shiny gear. Its still there but it is reduced and in my opinion this is an improvement. There is still plenty of death and destruction. Since I've joined Arm I've seen the retaking of Tuluk, the fall and subsequent retaking of Luirs, the troubles from the 'rinth, the recent RPTs that have culled quite large numbers of characters. Anyway, conflict for material gain is completely up to the players - if you want it go and get it. Don't complain if others want to do something else with their characters though - its as much their game as it is yours.

Sorry, but dammit...I personally think the game is getting crappier and losing some of what made it great as things go on. The code is getting better the conflicts and happenings in game are getting lame.

The conflicts that you enjoy are being reduced. From my point of view I'm seeing a lot of conflict happening. If you want to have your conflict go and make it somewhere. Make a raiding clan, claim a piece of territory to be your own, grab a corner in the 'rinth and tell the Guild to piss off or whatever. The Imms are not going to step in your way. They'll keep things realistic but that should be fine no? I get the feeling that you're pining for the days when the players had at their fingertips some very wide ranging powers, when a PC noble could make and break relations with other houses and do whatever they liked on a whim and certain clans created so much havoc that they had to be closed. I would hazard that this shift in policy towards a realistic level of PC nobles' and clans' powers did lead to less overt PvP conflict as nobles are less likely to simply say, "Kill that Borsail Lord's aide today for me hmm?", knowing that there are many other considerations to take into account. It still happens enough though - its simply more realistic. This is a good thing in my opinion

Players complaining that fact that conflict over material things has reduced is like players complaining that they're bored - do something about it yourself, be proactive and make the conflict that you want. The game has evolved and is better for it overall in my opinion. The fact that the the numbers playing Arm has steadily risen over the past few years suggests to me that the Imms and players are doing something right.

[jhunter]

LBO, you're just not paying attention. Your taking something completely different out of what I'm saying and trying to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. If you don't comprehend, don't bother responding k thanks.

[Ghost]

OK... I got the feeling, that some opiions state that introducing more metals to the game is going to bring some RP opportunities.

I don't see that.

The ultra rarity of the metals bring a lot of conflict already.  Just for example, one of my PCs ended up with something metal.. Not weapon.. Not armor... Not ring.. And it is so useless it can only cause my PC some weight, and nothing else.  Yet, I felt special for having it.  I felt special, powerful, lucky for carrying it.  I felt the importance of hiding it and showing it no one else, other than my truly most trusted ones.  And I could fight all Allanak not to return it to someone that "deserves" it.

Now seriously.. Does this not sound like a RP opportunity?
Do I actually have to see more people having the metal in useless shape?  And do I have to see some other type of metal (weapon/armor) as something rare and precious to get some RP opportunity?

Aside from that...

If there is an opinion, that says "metals should be there so that we can have some RP opportunity, stealing something that precious, or raiding/assassinating/mugging people for something that precious".. I say there is already such an option.  Not metal, but the rarity and the expense of the special crafts from Salarr/Kadius/Kurac already presents such an opportunity.  There are weapons valuing over 3000+ coins.  Which makes the sum of approximately ten year of work of an average commoner.. Or maybe two year total salarry of a random noble guard.
If there is a request for obtaining precious and rare items, it is there.

Or.. If people want to claim metal, still assassinating a noble and taking off his/her silver ring gives you that opportunity as well.  It is a useless tool, having a silver ring, but a steel sword is equally useless in my opinion.  
It only says, "you did something big and you were lucky to have it and perhaps you are fool or really powerful to carry something like that and you will soon die and lose it if you don't hide it carefully and show it noone."

[LBO]

LBO, you're just not paying attention. Your taking something completely different out of what I'm saying and trying to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. If you don't comprehend, don't bother responding k thanks.

Umm, I'll respond if I want to cheers.

Perhaps I did misunderstand the type of conflict that you are looking and it wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth. The general point of my post remains the same nonetheless: if you want more conflict of any kind the surest way to get it is to make it yourself. The Imms will back you up once you keep them informed and its realistic.

With regard to the Imms giving out "tastes" like you mentioned in your other post - they already do this. I've had a few very rare items go through some of my characters' hands and they were certainly not nobles or anything like it. These items did generate conflict around my character. Also, I seem to remember Sanvean (I think?) posting a good while back about the frustration on the part of the Imms regarding players who upon finding rare items would hoard them in the safest place they could find and show them to absolutely nobody thereby avoiding the very conflict that the Imms hoped to generate with them.

The Imms create storylines that do create conflict. But they need us, the players, to play our bit too and make our own storylines. If there has been a reduction in the overall level of conflict I would say that the increase in the number of clans spread out over the gameworld without a corresponding big enough jump in playerbase is the biggest contributor. Putting a large number together of people in one place has the natural effect of ratcheting up the conflict level a few notches. If there are fewer people in an area it gets harder to generate conflict in my opinion. But then we're getting into the whole number of clans debate and we've already got a few threads dedicated to that  :wink:

[jhunter (at work)]

It's just that I remember an experience a long time ago where a burglar had stolen an iron dagger (or something like that) from a noble's estate. He made a deal in an alley and sold it to a pretty powerful pc merchant who then took it to the other city and made a deal of his own. There's alot more that happened during all of this and was surrounding this whole thread that came from a simple burglary...it was so much fun and I miss that those things don't really happen any more. Just about everything out there is attainable some other way, so it's like "Why risk getting killed with no real potential for any gain?"


Sure, you "could" murder a noble for their signet ring...but to what end? That would make less sense than if the object was not only valuable and rare...but useful as well.

I guess I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to get at.

I just think that -anything- that can create conflict is a good thing. Sure, it's not the only thing that can, but I've seen it create conflict and some interesting things.

Not much opportunity for someone to basically steal a trunk full of obsidian or possibility really.

The greater the reward, the more apt people will be to take the risks. Small things made of metals that are useful and not easily marked with symbols from a house and such create opportunities.

Crap, it would be something to work for to get ahold of something like that so you could sell it for a wagonload of 'sid to a noble or wealthy merchant. I think it would be alot of fun to play out all of that stuff on any part of it.

[Maybe42or54]

As I see it, Armageddon was based on America to well.


America is all about symbolism. So is Zalanthas.
They use a form of currency that is actually quite worthless, but valuable because they say it is.
It is full of people trying to get payed, through torturing, bribing, killing, maiming, and stealing from their competitors.
It has the south (China) who is all about torturing and doing what ever they want prety bluntly.
And then the north (America), is all about secrecy, has many of the same problems as the north (such as killings, largescale bribery, Corrupt leaders headed by god knows what) And at the same time, the general populace is all about not hurting anyone and just getting from day to day.

They have an "old" city-state that doesn't exist anymore that was in severe competition against Allanak, Russia or Stineal(sp?)

A lot of tribes that speak their own language, but noone really cares.

[Trenidor]

What does that have to do with Metal?

Practically you can say any country is one of the two major cities...

Allanak could be England, Red storm is Ireland; in the sence that ireland was once british ruled until it rebelled just like red storm.

Tuluk could be germany, where magickers are jewish.

Blackwing could be hondoras, thaiwan, even china, just because they make nifty little toys and beads.

Luirs could be any number of things, including spain durring Its peak of trade when it controlled sea power.

So really, relating something to one country isn't fair...

Zalanthas is alot like earth in this sence more than anything in partiucular.

[Maybe42or54]

It's fair to me.

It was my opinion.