Roleplaying Being Stolen From

[Anonymous Victim]

I think the sad thing is that the way most players respond to being stolen from seems to suggest that all the thieves of the game world should only steal when they are hidden and not emoting (in other words, when you have no clue he was ever there).

I said before that there are plenty of ways to steal without getting caught - but I don't think the only way to perform a theft is to do it while hidden and without emotes.  I think people that are hidden and stealing from people owe it to their victims to emote.  If you're hidden, and you do an emote like, "emote brushes past ~victim," I'm going to appreciate that a lot more than if you do that while unhidden.  As long as you do realistic emotes from hiding, it means your character was able to become one of the faceless masses.  If you do it when your character isn't hidden, it means my character could easily have seen your character bump into him.

That said, I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of other ways to steal from people.  Show a little creativity and think outside the steal and hide skills.  Play with people's perceptions.

[Cuusardo]

I think it would be cool if hidden people emoted more.

[Marauder Moe]

I disagree.  I hate it when I see a hidden emote and have to fight the urge to scan or check my inventory/equipment.

[Forest Junkie]

I think it would be cool if hidden people emoted more.

Nope, sorry. I'll never emote while hidden anymore unless in the desert under certain circumstances. (ie magicks or special use of the terrain)

Every time I emoted while hidden in the city, someone bitched on the gdb. Plus there's the whole:

>stand
>scan
>scan
>eq
>put sword pack
>put 453 coins pack

thing going on.

[Gaare]

I believe thieves get a bum rep simply because people cannot grasp or contemplate how a thief could steal something. In real life, I've seen some pretty wild things done by human thieves - in Arm people have greater agility (faster hands, more subtle movements, quicker reflexes) and there are other races. I always view that was is done by street magicians and good pick pockets IRL as a _base_ level of what a pick pocket could be capable of.

A good RL thief can steal your watch off your wrist while talking to you without you noticing. A good RL thief can A) rumage through your purse and take anything they want or B) take your purse and leave before you notice - bad RL thieves just yank the purse away and run.

A good RL thief can steal someone's earring, someone's hat, someone's necklace, someone's wallet, someone's shoes even (in a restaurant). I've heard and seen all of this happening in RL. In Arm, once more, those who specialize in thievery get awfully darn good at it and their abilities are further enhanced by super-human attributes. Therefore, before complaining, think for a moment.

If you lose a sword while seated at a bar - then that is not too surprising. Most people who wear swords wear armour. That armour then provides a barrier between the sword and the leg. While seated, the sword's weight is distributed by how it rests against the bar or is hanging straight from the belt. The removal of the blade will not necessarily mean you will instantly notice it. Therefore, even a long blade can be carefully cut away by a cunning thief and taken.

Before I hear the 'no, that cannot happen' responses - please just take the time to think about it. And realize, that yes, it could happen. It would take a good thief but it can be done.

What I dislike are the thieves that spam steal - where they take more than one item from a single mark. To me that's just silly. You don't stick around after you do your hit. This is my own view.

I don't agree with stealing pants when others are around watching - but if the person is there all alone and you are obvious about it (emotes here) then by all means, go for it. It's not like the unconscious person can do anything about it. A sleeping person will likely wake up but that's fair.

Any large object taken from a sleeping person should be emoted in my opinion. There's no real sneaky way to prevent people from seeing you take off a cloak, a shirt, a hauberk, pants, a backpack, or anything else you can't normally steal from a sleeping person.

And I want to add something. I hate overstealing as much as I hate overhunting.  A certain PC enters a tavern and some items get lost.. Then two RL hours later, same PC enters that tavern and some items from different PCs stolen once more.. What would you expect when that PC  enters the same tavern next time? I think hiding behind the fact of VNPCs in that tavern is not a solution for that situation.

[jhunter]

I hate it when I see a hidden emote and have to fight the urge to scan or check my inventory/equipment.

That and I just plain don't like to have the knowledge that my pc doesn't if it can be avoided.

[Cenghiz]

Whirans - experienced rangers usually RP out sneaking around my character with no fear after trying once. They're really funny RP sequences and usually don't end up with death. They know my poor merchant is busy with chopping wood or that scarred ranger is really keeping his gaze on that bit of wooden shaft before someone chuckles loudly.

If you're in a grove and 'someone' emotes hastily climbing up a tree, he's just making you OOCly aware that he's there.. So you can emote your level of perception in exchange. If you stand up and leave, all right.. Maybe you had to go. Nobody can know and nobody should assume. But if you stand up and scan, scan, scan... Eh, I'm sure a whiran can cast nice things while you're stuck with the last scan's delay and I don't think anyone would listen to the whiner's mail later. And I'm totally in for killing twinks 'and' asking for the imms to fry them if possible IC.

If a thief is emoting brushing past while invisible, it's a message 'Hello.. I stole your torch now. Now you can find that out in a few minutes and make fun RP out of that or may wait till it gets dark for funnier RP.' If your character was that perceptive, 'LOOK' at him while he was hidden with an odd look. Then you'd remember the face and noone would blame you for being a whiner.

And about the VNPCs... They're there.. You don't want to RP with masses? Then go to the desert. Most of the desert rooms are empty. But if you're in a tavern there 'are' 14 elven VNPCs. If it's Gaj 6 of those elven VNPCs are 'rinthi. You simply can't ignore them because you want to do so. You can't pee, get naked, MUDsex, chip obsidian or chop logs in a virtually crowded place just because there are no PCs normally. (Err maybe you can.. But please, some of those VNPCs are children.)

Don't whine just because you lost a 13-'sid worth f**king torch to a good RPer.

Note: This post is not towards the folks posting in here. It's to folks whom I witnessed doing these things IG a few weeks ago, and I wasn't the thief there, was just another victim.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I think I remember seeing in some older thread that even if someone fails their attempt, not critical as in guards rushing into the room immediately but a "tugging at the clothes" or however that echo goes, depending on how suspicous or smart the person is they might not realize what was going on exactly anyway. Something to the effect of the victem turning on the thief and slapping them on the cheek and yelling about keeping their grabby paws to themselves basicly. I could've worded this better, but that's the general point. So I think if a thief didn't critically fail, but  chances are they're going to get pegged for trying anyway, it might be a good idea to play up on their goof and all-out grope the person. *shrug* Something like that, anyway.
And as to people hiding and emoting, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. Because too many people have the dendency to wig out. Here a while back when they changed a taverns room echo to include a few 'someone' emotes, I was constantly seeing people jump up and scan. Someone laughs boisterously from across the room, three people look around for the source. Then there was one with someone brushing past an area, people were grabbing their weapons and scanning. Even though this is a crowded bar, how often do you suppose people are bumping and brushing into other people? Especially when you count the stumbling drunks. When people realized it was a room echo they settled down, but then a new PC comes in, and it starts all over again.
I've forgotten my point.. A warning to all, take care posting when you're using cough syrup. I'm done now.

[joyofdiscord]

And I want to add something. I hate overstealing as much as I hate overhunting.  A certain PC enters a tavern and some items get lost.. Then two RL hours later, same PC enters that tavern and some items from different PCs stolen once more.. What would you expect when that PC  enters the same tavern next time? I think hiding behind the fact of VNPCs in that tavern is not a solution for that situation.

2 RL hours is over an IC day, and doesn't really seem that bad to me, especially considering the amount of people moving in and out of the tavern, plus the fact that there are a lot of thieves around, and even if you perceive the situation exactly as mentioned above, the simple fact that that PC was there both times when things went missing doesn't prove he did it, not by a long shot.  Even if there are no VNPCs, there -are- thieves with the sneak and hide skills.  Also, depending on the items in question, making enough money to keep oneself fed and watered just might require stealing something each IC day or so.

[xX_Cathedral_Xx]

And I want to add something. I hate overstealing as much as I hate overhunting.  A certain PC enters a tavern and some items get lost.. Then two RL hours later, same PC enters that tavern and some items from different PCs stolen once more.. What would you expect when that PC  enters the same tavern next time? I think hiding behind the fact of VNPCs in that tavern is not a solution for that situation.

2 RL hours is over an IC day, and doesn't really seem that bad to me, especially considering the amount of people moving in and out of the tavern, plus the fact that there are a lot of thieves around, and even if you perceive the situation exactly as mentioned above, the simple fact that that PC was there both times when things went missing doesn't prove he did it, not by a long shot.  Even if there are no VNPCs, there -are- thieves with the sneak and hide skills.  Also, depending on the items in question, making enough money to keep oneself fed and watered just might require stealing something each IC day or so.

In my opinion, I believe your reasoning for not 'over-stealing' as you call it is somewhat flawed. Very clearly the person being stolen from is an easy mark, most of the time it is this case, and if this person is an easy mark and this elf thief needs coin, don't you think he is going to continue stealing from this human for as long as he can without being noticed as the thief? Just my thought on it.

[Nidhogg]

Lots of interesting arguments in this thread. But, an argument can be made for almost anything. The point is, we need enough ooc consideration for one another not to find excuses why we should always foil the theives or why we should steal so continuously from one victim that they get fed up and start finding excuses to become steal proof.

That means occasionally sucking it up, and not trying to "win."

[creeper386]

I almost always have something that's not worth stealing but is stealable on my characters. Sometimes even something valuable like food and water(These never get stolen). The only thing I get stolen is ussually a light weight weapon from the belt. Ussually happens everytime if I have a knife hanging from my belt, even if it's a cheap one.

I would think thieves would steal more smartly. Lately I haven't seen any bad thieves, but when a whole tavern ends up finding at least one thing, if not one or two more things missing ... Somethings wrong. Yes, it may have been multiple thieves but that's probably slim.

Honestly I'd still say everything goes both ways. I see has many victims RPing the act poorly as thieves. Not one side worst then the other in any case.


Creeper

[Kalden]

Burglars can easily steal from belts. They can rarely steal from packs - it's hard to get your peek and steal skill high enough.

So it's likely the reason that's happening is that there are a lot of frustrated burglars out there, and not many good pickpockets.

You're lucky.

[Maybe42or54]

If someone steals from you, It is your fault.
You can be unstealfromable in this mud.

If it was so important that you put your RP aside. Then you shouldn't be carrying it around.

[creeper386]

If someone steals from you, It is your fault.
You can be unstealfromable in this mud.

If it was so important that you put your RP aside. Then you shouldn't be carrying it around.

Good idea. Lets abuse the code just to make the lives difficult of the people that already play difficult characters! YES, perfect idea.

And the one word that comes to mind with this is ... Well I can't say it.


Creeper

[Maybe42or54]

Twink!


If you got something jacked from your person, and it is so goddamn important that you have to put RP aside to yell at the only other visible PC in the room, that is twinkdom. Don't carry anything around and expect it -not- to be stolen.

[halfhuman]

There's nothing I hate more than people who single you out cause you're the only PC that is able to do it.  One time I was in a bar and there were (I counted) 12 PC's all hanging around for an extended period of time.  Since there were 12 PC's, that must mean there are quite a bit of NPC's as well! So, I got busy emoting shoving my way through crowds to establish that this place is fucking PACKED!  
Stole from someone, got one of them failures where "You are able to conceal your actions before they notice you."  The dude came up to me and accused me of being the ONLY person in the tavern moving around.  

What's worse? His buddies dagger got stolen too. Neither of these where me, but I took a beating for it because some twink told everyone I was a thief. Oh well, what ya gonna do?

Also, I've been sitting in a bar when I PC shows up and tries to steal from me. Then keeps trying to steal from me, failing each time.

Then there was a guy who snuck off while I was busy emotedly SHOVING him.

Wo-be me.

When I steal from someone I always emote a way for me to get close enough.  I give them a friendly pat on the back after a stimulating conversation, I act drunk and stagger into them, or I brush past them when things get crowded.  I have only seen about one or two well RP'd responses in my long carrier.  *shrug*

[Anonymous]

So when i get the message that someone brushes by me, someone is stealing things? :shock:

[mansa]

So when i get the message that someone brushes by me, someone is stealing things?

No.

[halfhuman]

Think back to those days of rejection and fear known as High School.  The halls were CROWDED then, right? (At least they are in my school) I bump into AT LEAST two people each day.  They don't think I'm trying to steal their shit or cop a feel, so neither should you when you're in a crowded bar and someone bumps into you.  

Granted, it's okay to be a little suspiscious, just don't go pulling weapons until after you've EMOTED thoroughly looking through your eq and inv.   And you'd only want to look through your inv like that if you were paranoid, probably. Or if it was an elf that bumped into you... bloody neckers!

Cootoes to me, I was just wandering along minding my own business, when I saw an emote about "Someone does something" and I resisted perfectly the urge to scan until the unknown assailents started doing a lot of whispering, even then I made a successfull use of the listen command first! Worship me, I am your RP god!

[joyofdiscord]

Cootoes to me

"Kudos".  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Maybe42or54]

Have you ever been to a major event such as a concert, A train station in Chicago, a train station in New york, or washington D.c?

That is what zalanthas is like, You never know who's trying to steal from you, but you know they are trying to since there is a 40 foot wide walkway and they are all bunched up in a 5 foot walkway.

[bloodfromstone]

Yeah, I always assumed that brushes and bumps were assumed during steal attempts, but with packed bazaars and streets, why is one different and more worthy of note than the next?

[Rhyden]

I've bumped into people all the time. I've never played a pick-pocket.

[Thiefee]

I was stolen from recently.  I was pleased with my IC response and wanted to post here what I thought was acceptible, why I thought it was good roleplay and how being stolen from should more frequently be roleplayed.

Posting anon so I don't get crap for tooting my own horn.  Heh.

My char was sitting in a tavern talking with the thief (or who I now assume was the thief).  Thief gets up and pulls up his hood and leaves tavern.  Thief leaves tavern and apparently fails his sneak back into the tavern.  Then I get the mesasge "hand in your belongings" and thief fails his sneak back out into the street.

I check my coin - hey I did feel something and I was twenty sid shy.  What did I do?  Nothing.  

Why?  Tavern is busy - though the thief failed his sneak back into the tavern, I might not have noticed a noble entering the busy establishment for awhile, how much less some joe blow in cloak?  Twenty coins off?  Hell, I could have left some of that home, bought one extra drink or something.  Easy enough to loose count.  I do that all the time in RL.
And the feeling of someone's hand in my stuff?  It could have been someone bumping into me.  Who knows.

That being said, I became a little more suspicious of the thief.  We had talked about how he was short on coin and then I come up light after he leaves?  And later, after another conversation my dagger goes missing?

After the second theft (a few IC days later) my character was setting up to test the thief, but there was no running around stomping and getting angry over the loss of few coins, a knife or whatever.

Now had it been something imoprtant (keys, special weapon, crown jewels) maybe my character would have been more upset, but in general thefts are that big.  Usually.

The thief was well roleplayed - one steal attempt, had spent time casing me and left me IC/OOC unsure that it was actually him.

Actually, now that I think of it - it would be cool if IMMs would occasionally play thief VNPCs to get people used to realizing that it isn't necessarily the visible PC taking your stuff.  You know - drop your coin by 20 or 30 sids, or have you loose your favorite spice pipe and send you an echo about someone brushing by you.