Playerkilling

[Yokunama]

To whomever you are....

It was obvious that you attacked me thinking that I was AFK and my character was sitting out there like a pack of fresh lunch meat. You just happened to stumble upon the face of death wrapped up as a pack of meat! Just looking at people and attacking them is not the way you go about killing people. This is a world where you do not just go picking on people just because "you" (not your character) think they are weak and would be easy game.

Just because people do not move does not mean they are AFK or LINK DEAD.

Futhermore, if you are going to kill someone please try to do it in some sort of style and fashing. Later on in the game, you will find out that this will not please most people in the game if you try to pk them this way. I tried playing the role of a very good victim, but you disappointed me with your horriable attempt to roleplay. Just looking at people, trying to determine that they have a new or well developed character, and attacking them without no emoting whatsoever is not going to get it for you pal.

Try do something helpful to us all and try to help the playerbase instead of destroying it. My character could have easily wiped the terrains of Armageddon with your character's entrails, but I tried to be nice this time. Perhaps you would take this advice.

[Rhyden]

To whomever killed Yokunama's character like that, shame.

Yokunama, this email would be better suited for the imms to see rather than the entire playerbase. The imms will know who did this and can send them a more personal email.

Regards,
-Rhyden

[Yokunama]

Erm...

They didn't kill me. I was the one being nice enough to let them go and play the victim.

[Rhyden]

Erm, alright. I wasn't quite sure exactly what happened. Anyways, this is -way- too IC for the GDB anyways, so I won't ask any more questions.

[SanityAssassin]

:gives Yokunama ten cool points.

[HardCarbon]

Erm, alright. I wasn't quite sure exactly what happened. Anyways, this is -way- too IC for the GDB anyways, so I won't ask any more questions.

Why doesn't name a character .. name .. place..  etc.. Mebby YOU know who the person behind the ID is.. but most don't and won't recongnize it (well I didn't)  cept for the person involved.


 One basic problem is.. the best target a hunter can have.. is a PC.. they are weak and wealthy.

[Anonymous]

mud@ginka.armageddon.org

I understand your frustration, and I've made a post like this before, but it is really sort of pointless, you'll be better off emailing the mud.

[Rhyden]

Erm, alright. I wasn't quite sure exactly what happened. Anyways, this is -way- too IC for the GDB anyways, so I won't ask any more questions.

Why doesn't name a character .. name .. place..  etc.. Mebby YOU know who the person behind the ID is.. but most don't and won't recongnize it (well I didn't)  cept for the person involved.

I know who the person behind the ID is? Sorry, I'm bedaffled beyond compare.

[HardCarbon]

Erm, alright. I wasn't quite sure exactly what happened. Anyways, this is -way- too IC for the GDB anyways, so I won't ask any more questions.

Why doesn't name a character .. name .. place..  etc.. Mebby YOU know who the person behind the ID is.. but most don't and won't recongnize it (well I didn't)  cept for the person involved.

I know who the person behind the ID is? Sorry, I'm bedaffled beyond compare.

Well if your complaining its too IC  .. or hmm did I not read that right?? IF so Sorry

[Cavus]

There were many posts about raiding. Yes, you're right there should be some emote, but there is no guarantee that the victim wouldn't run away without any emote.

Other than that, his action can have IC reason. For example, it is his territory, and he watched you while you are hunting and harming (drying up) his territory. He made a plan, then he jump through some foilages that he had hidden.

Think the real life. You are walking in the dark alleway, and there is a gang waiting for eating up whoever comes and get his money. Do you think they will show themselves from shadows, and ask you kindly your money? No, they will just attack you mindlessly.

Let's make it a little bit harsher. You suck up with someone, but you don't know that. He is at that alleway, and waiting for you. He wants to kill you. Would he give you a chance to run away, or defend yourself by showing himself from shadows and telling you that he will kill you? In the movies maybe, but in RL no.

Raiders just attack. They hide, and wait for their prey. If emote is important (definitely important), I would prefer first attacking, so he cannot run away, then I could describe how jump on to him with some quick emotes while fighting. Otherwise, that person can run away, and tomorrow you are at the newspapers of Zalanthas as a raider. And, headhunters are after you.

[jhunter]

Just want to add something:

Emote does not equal RP.

It is merely one of the tools we can use to flush out rp, but it does not mean that there was no RP behind actions just because others did not see them.

And as others have said, far too many people play the fleeing victim without emotes and then complain when they are killed without any.

[WarriorPoet]

Emote does not equal RP.

It is merely one of the tools we can use to flush out rp, but it does not mean that there was no RP behind actions just because others did not see them.

I think 'raiders' and PKers should take into account the fact that even if 'emote does not equal RP' that the person on the recieving end of a PK should enjoy his/her death. Granted, a death is usually nothing to dance around about, but in the end it should be more than a spamming screen of combat and then the mantis head. If you are roleplaying so hard using some invisible means, such as think, what's stopping you from throwing the occasional emote out to spice up an otherwise suckass scene? Come on people. That's the shittiest thing I've ever heard of.

The last time I was PK'd there wasn't a single emote from my opponent. Not one. After two different, extended bouts of fighting across the rinth, and numerous emotes on my part, I got NOTHING. Not a say, not a look, not a three word emote. I got: Nothing.

Now, I'll give the benefit of the doubt that this cat was using 'think' the entire time. Still, what fun was that for me? There was no life to the scene. Instead of a stunning death scene after an amazing running battle through the 'rinth, I got dick. Coded combat echoes, the mantis head and it's attending beep and not a smidgen of roleplaying from my opponent. The 'You might just flee;e;e;e;e' argument doesn't hold up here, at all. I busted my ass throwing out emotes for ten minutes while I fled and fought, getting nothing in return except the occasional look(without an emote tacked, btw) to gauge my health. Bullshit.

Is this right? Mind you, I don't mind dying in the slightest. I do, however, mind dying to some prat who smoked me for the hell of it, rather than roleplaying out a scene with me. It could  have been badass, but instead I got nothing.

I think there should be strict, savage punishments for PK with no RP to compliment it. We're here to roleplay, after all. I'll take my deaths and move on with a smile, but when I die, roleplaying as hard as I possibly can, I want a silver-handled, steel RP dagger to do it, not the invisible wooden stick of HackandShit.

You're a good guy, Yokunama. Stay strong. Don't let a few posers ruin the game for you.

[Bestatte]

I'd like to add something so any new folks reading this thread don't get too much of a negative opinion of the game and death within it.

I've had only thirteen characters, and only stored one of them. One was killed by an NPC due to sheer stupidity on my part. The rest were all murdered. And every one of those murders were roleplayed out by the killers. One of them, I saw little or no emotes, but it was -obvious- to me that some serious planning went into it. The others involved emotes, conversation, even torture in some.

And I have to say, every one of those roleplayed deaths were fan-fucking-tastic and I am SO glad to have experienced such awesome deaths.

So please don't get the impression that the Hack-n-Slash PK is common. I really don't believe it is. I just think there are a few folks who haven't learned to enjoy being the aggressor in a RPed manner, or are spooked by bad experiences from non-roleplaying spam-fleeing victims. I am truly convinced that these are the minority, and not something you would encounter regularly, if at all.

[Cavus]

I think there should be strict, savage punishments for PK with no RP to compliment it. We're here to roleplay, after all.

Man, what are you talking about? This MUD is PK free. And, death should be enjoyable for the victim, so raider should do some fighting emotes, and maybe talking, but nothing more. As, I said before if raider tries to emote, the victim does not emote and run away. If victim emotes, then raider does not. Finding both is hard, and no raider risks hiss life by taking things slow. First attack (with a reason), then some emotes. Victim still can flee, don't forget that.

[Akaramu]

How much VISIBLE rp you get totally depends on the situation. I think I have indirectly killed some people, but never did the dirty deed personally so far. When that happens, I'd absolutely love to give the player a great death scene. BUT... it depends who I am, and where.

If I am a templar and you are a rinth rat who got caught trying to steal from me, and you sit in a wonderful little jail cell, expect a wonderful long death scene.

If I am a noble and you, my aide, got caught spying for my archenemy - expect a great death scene after I call you into my office.

If I am an assassin who needs to protect an everyday life identity - expect to die before you realize whats going on. If you saw it coming, I did something wrong.

[WarriorPoet]

How much VISIBLE rp you get totally depends on the situation.

*snip*

If I am an assassin who needs to protect an everyday life identity - expect to die before you realize whats going on. If you saw it coming, I did something wrong.

That's fair and I'll agree 100%. An assassin planting a dagger in your ribs from the shadows is different from someone jumping you and then sitting there for thirty rounds of combat. What I find unacceptable is fighting around with someone for ten minutes and getting nothing. As Bestatte said above, this is by no means the norm, but it does happen.

My own case was probably extreme, but I've heard arguments for this kind of behavior, and I can't understand it. I would have been happy with one fucking emote. One curl of the lips, one muttered curse, one disdainful laugh, but no. My character, who was furiously alive, died to an emotionless, sword-swinging vegetable.

Cavus: So lack of emoting from both parties is fine because that's the norm? Sure, a victim could flee, but that's just perpetuating the circle, eh?

[Cavus]

Cavus: So lack of emoting from both parties is fine because that's the norm? Sure, a victim could flee, but that's just perpetuating the circle, eh?

My answer will be kind of yes. If raider comes and does emote or say something, victim would not stay (if victim is badass I am sure he will stay unless raider is an magicker) there just a sec for emote. And this is unjust for the raider.

If victim wants to emote, but raider attacks suddenly the victim would be frustrated from the situation. There is no solution to this problem.

Is this the case always? No, but it's matter of chance. If both sides prefer to emote at the same time,that raiding will be fun for both of them.

I had a friend, he chased a player for 14 room just because my friend tried to do emote, but the victim just ran. In the end, my friend stopped emoting and attacked to that victim at 14. room. He is good RPer, but victim did not want to emote.

So, I don't see a solution, but I hope you see one and suggest that to all playerbase. Giving punishments to PK just makes Zalanthas less harsh.

[WarriorPoet]

So what you're saying is, for the sake of tallying one more notch on your bone-buckled raider belt you're willing to forego the attending interaction aside from typing 'kill bill' or ' flee;e;e;e;e'?

Maybe I'm skewed here, but I could swear it is supposed to be the other way around: We're supposed to let the H&S aspects slide a bit in order to further the story that we are, collectively, trying to tell.

I'm not condemning playerkilling itself in any way, what I am condemning, loud and proud, is mindless PK with no attending RP. You may be willing to sacrifice the story for the sake of taking out a few victims, or to keep your fancy 13 day character alive a few more hours, I am not.

{EDITED to add that going back I caught a kind of whiny, condescending feel to this post. That's wasn't my intention at all, I swear it. It's all in the tone of voice, I guess. I'm an ass and my points are probably lacking. Someone needs to come along and shut me up }

[Cavus]

So what you're saying is, for the sake of tallying one more notch on your bone-buckled raider belt you're willing to forego the attending interaction aside from typing 'kill bill' or ' flee;e;e;e;e'?

Maybe I'm skewed here, but I could swear it is supposed to be the other way around: We're supposed to let the H&S aspects slide a bit in order to further the story that we are, collectively, trying to tell.

I'm not condemning playerkilling itself in any way, what I am condemning, loud and proud, is mindless PK with no attending RP. You may be willing to sacrifice the story for the sake of taking out a few victims, or to keep your fancy 13 day character alive a few more hours, I am not.

I am totally agree with you. But, what I don't have is a solution. I really like to see someone who comes up with a solution.

Otherwise, the raider (maybe over 10 days of Gameplay he has) will screw up, and he will be killed by head hunters. He had good amount of work on his char, so you don't want hiim to lose a char to this lack of emote thing, right?

Anyway, like I said, I am agree with you and all frustrated players. But, what is the -solution-?

[Yokunama]

Other than that, his action can have IC reason. For example, it is his territory, and he watched you while you are hunting and harming (drying up) his territory. He made a plan, then he jump through some foilages that he had hidden.

Think the real life. You are walking in the dark alleway, and there is a gang waiting for eating up whoever comes and get his money. Do you think they will show themselves from shadows, and ask you kindly your money? No, they will just attack you mindlessly.

Let's make it a little bit harsher. You suck up with someone, but you don't know that. He is at that alleway, and waiting for you. He wants to kill you. Would he give you a chance to run away, or defend yourself by showing himself from shadows and telling you that he will kill you? In the movies maybe, but in RL no.

To the green text:
That did not comply with the situation.

To the dark blue text:

You are making me laugh, Cavus.

In "real life" most theives and muggers do not -kill- their victims. In "real life" they go in, take whatever they can, and get out of there. In "real life" there are those cases where the victim is very aware they are getting stuck up, try to prevent it from happening, and end up with a few bruises or end up in critical condition. In "real life" there are those times where the theif will try to trick you out of your money or overprice you for something that is only worth a few stinky dollars. In "real life" there are those cases where some have been killed, but it is not something the majority of them do.

This person was not a theif or raider. They were more like a horriable, dishonest, and twinkish player. This said person was a bad roleplayer and even "checked" to see if I was AFK or LINKDEAD before attacking.

(From a source on the boards with a few of my words added)
Note: Its us newbies that are the ones who are going to try to help your playerbase if we stay. If this keeps up around us newbies we will gladly be looking forward to push Armageddon aside with all the other muds and move on to another mud.

[Cavus]

Yokunama, the discussion became more generalized, so my examples are not about your trouble exactly. And, I mean raider, not thief. In other words murderer  :twisted:

And in real life, if the one does not want to give his money, I would prefer kicking his ass hard and making him unconscious, so I can get everything. And I may kill to not being recognized later. (Though, it is opposite to my nature. I am making up a story, I am not bad person, you know   )

[Halaster]

I'm not condemning playerkilling itself in any way, what I am condemning, loud and proud, is mindless PK with no attending RP.

I would say that ANY mindless killing with no attending RP is lame, whether it's PC or NPC.

Treating PC's differently than NPC's is bad.  You should RP just as much around NPC's as you do PC's.  Trust me, it makes the game more fun for everyone, yourself included (plus, you never really know who's there watching).

[amoeba]

This person was not a theif or raider. They were more like a horriable, dishonest, and twinkish player. This said person was a bad roleplayer and even "checked" to see if I was AFK or LINKDEAD before attacking.

(From a source on the boards with a few of my words added)
Note: Its us newbies that are the ones who are going to try to help your playerbase if we stay. If this keeps up around us newbies we will gladly be looking forward to push Armageddon aside with all the other muds and move on to another mud.

Yokunama, chill, relax, you came out on top. I have been in a similar situation where someone atacked my sleeping chararcter.  (yes I had a good IC reason for sleeping) That person, if they survived got a very rude suprise when he suddenly awoke and attacked back.  I also got no response, but I certianly gave one.   I actually enjoyed the situation, got a lot of RP mileage out of it.  Remember this is a game, to call people "horriable"  and "dishonest" is probably pushing it a bit.  For all you know the player could have tried his first PK and fumbled it.  If you really think someone did something wrong, email the IMM's  They know the background.

To raiders: This is probably a good arguement for chaining commands.
emote Slowly approaches ~dude from behind, his wickedly cruel obsidan dagger of death held loosely in his twisted hands. ; kill dude
Gives an emote and gives no chance to spam run away.

[Yokunama]

Yokunama, chill, relax, you came out on top.

Erm,

Actually, I am not angry. It is just that each and everyone of my characters targeted and I yet to see any roleplay effort come out of those who tried to pk me.

Note: This is just an example drawn up from what actually happened.

Small Grove [NESW]
  A small stand of agafari trees, interspersed with blossoming pymlithe,
has taken root here.  The squat, gnarled hardwoods are foliated with long
and slender leaves, hardly greater than a finger's width, fanning out and
down in shaggy, drooping clusters, while the smaller pymlithe are topped
with sprays of rose and yellow blossoms, the colors a soft contrast against
the greyish leaves.
The copper-skinned woman is here.

The figure in a hooded cloak has arrived from the east.
A kank has arrived from the east.
The male in a white face wrap has arrived from the east.
A kank has arrived from the east.

(I was asking for help using the OOC command. Questions that would point out the fact that I was a newbie. This happened a while ago.)

The male in a white face wrap says to the copper-skinned woman,
"You are causing trouble, leave."
The male in a white face wrap says,
"Leave."
The male in a white face wrap says,
"Leave."
The male in a white face wrap says,
"Leave."
The male in a white face wrap says,
"Hey."

The figure in a hooded cloak draws an axe.
The figure in a hooded cloak draws an axe.

The male in a white face wrap draws a sword.
The male in a white face wrap draws a sword.

(combat rounds)
You fall of your kank!
(combat rounds)

You flee north.
The figure in a hooded cloak has arrived from the south.
A kank has arrived from the south
The male in a white face wrap has arrived from the south.
A kank has arrived from the south.
You breathe heavily.

You run north.
You shout, "Help!"
The figure in a hooded cloak has arrived from the south.
A kank has arrived from the south
The male in a white face wrap has arrived from the south.
A kank has arrived from the south.

You look around and attempt to hide behind a tree.

[Koala]

I am totally agree with you. But, what I don't have is a solution. I really like to see someone who comes up with a solution.

Here is your solution, just behave the way it has to be (using proper emotes and RP) and be an example to others without thinking -first- your opponent and your investment you already spent.

Just let it go, if you don't put yourself into danger before others do then you cannot expect it from them. They will keep it doing unproperly. If you think that you have the right to expect to see it, proper emotes and RP, from others before you do, then you are just trying to maximize your utility without considering the whole.

[derailment]

(I will go with famous prisoner dilemma example comparing one-period game and repeated game with endless rounds)

In one-period games the players are going to be aware of the above situation and will construct their strategies accordingly. Every player tries to maximize their utility with expectations they have. Here, people expect no future rounds and choose the best possible choice, which is just shirking not contributing. People think that if others are going to shirk then why contribute. Shirking will be the dominant strategy for every player and will result in having a loss at inidividual and total levels. This type of behaviour is an acceptable one if we were playing this game for one period but we are not. The duration of our game is undetermined and we will play it repeatedly. Because of this, you have to think future when you are playing your first rounds. Every round is going to affect your future rounds & outcomes. If one of the players in this game chooses to ignore to consider the repeated sequence and chooses to shirk then we -all- are going to suffer, including that player. To prevent this every player has to show a trust to others and keep contributing. In a repeated game like this contributing at every round (all players have to contribute) is the the choice with the highest outcome at both individual and total levels. As a conclusion, in a repeated with endless turn game we -all- should contribute with all costs and convince the others by all means for the sake of whole. Think long-run effects of your actions and try not to fall in love with possible good looking short-run gains. Give us a chance to reach an optimum where we -all- can have a better environment.  

[/derailment]

I always try to do this =>  Show respect to others and let them learn it from you, even if you are the only one showing it. Try to eliminate other's unproper behaviours* affecting your mindset.

In this case I believe in using proper emotes and RP with all costs, including the loss of my lovely and badass character.

* = Yes, I know this is relative to the person in question.

[Yokunama]

(From a source on the boards with a few of my words added)
Note: Its us newbies that are the ones who are going to try to help your playerbase if we stay. If this keeps up around us newbies we will gladly be looking forward to push Armageddon aside with all the other muds and move on to another mud.

If you want more players, which I think most of us do (including myself), then remember that they come out of that group of newbies.  Make that first hour something other than an intimate look at the mantis head and they may stick around.  Otherwise, I don't blame them for finding a more welcoming place.

Link to the quote above:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11984

[Rhyden]

25 more coolpoints awarded to Yokunama.

[jhunter]

I personally am sick of people posting on the boards to whine every time their pc is attacked/killed.

Three, sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being mean to others that you meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of them as long as the meanness is in-character (IC).
Four, complaints of unfairness on the part of other players will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right.

The real fact of the matter is that you do not know what was behind it. The only ones who know everything that goes on are the immortals. Posting to whine on the GDB does nothing to fix any perceived problem.

If you are attacked/killed and you have a problem with it. Mail the mud because the staff are the only ones who can know whether or not something was IC or not.

Also, no amount of whining in the world will fix anything or bring back your character.

I say move on, keep playing your role to the best of your abilities and screw what everyone else does.

Someone said on here before: "You can't change how others behave, but you can control your own actions."

I think it was a pretty smart thing and I know it got me to thinking when I read it.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Posting to raise awareness [for the newbies] is good, posting to complain is bad. Tough decision.

There could be a lot of hidden things behind one's death, things unseen. But mine are usually clear cut.. and dumb, I hate myself.

I remember once when I was still very new and not averse to flee, walk back rescue kank and walk away, mount then nnnn. There was this rinthi on the hunt outside the city, he watched me trying to kill a jozhal and hitting like every ten tries, lousy agility. He probably realised I was a noobie coz he threw in a knife and I picked it up, when he came in and I passed it to him. LOL. Then he hit my kank after some rp, I tried to hit him, got real nervous because I have not much clue how to earn good sids to get another kank, rescue, flee wwww. I apologize for that and the attempt to get you at the tavern, rinthi. Hope I'm not that noob now, though I still do that with npcs. *sigh*

But I think this things will just keep happening, killings without apparent or maybe no rp, since there will always be an influx of new players from h/s genres.

[SanityAssassin]

There could be a lot of hidden things behind one's death, things unseen. But mine are usually clear cut.. and dumb, I hate myself.

::sighs:: Me too, me too.

[Yokunama]

I personally am sick of people posting on the boards to whine every time their pc is attacked/killed.

FYI, my character did not die, therefore, you are not sick.

[jhunter]

Notice I specifically said attacked/killed?

[cyberpatrol_735]

Chill.

[jhunter]

*uses a snowplow and buries cyberpatrol_735 under a mountain of snow*

Better now? :?

[Rhyden]

Nice snowplow...can I borrow it?

[jhunter]

Yep. It's virtual so all you have to do is ask.

*passes over his virtual snowplow*

There you go.

[Rhyden]

>mount snowplow

>hitch snowplow

>charge jhunter

hehehe, sucker

[jhunter]

*cackles as he points a finger at the charging snowplow, a brilliant blue and white arc of energy leaping from his finger to strike Rhyden and the snowplow, turning them both into a sizzling puddle of goo*

*urinates in the puddle of steaming goo*

*Turns back to working at his masterplan to take over the world.*

[cyberpatrol_735]

Code Select Expand


Burried Beneath the Snow [ U D ]
You lie under massive heaps of snow, most likely the polar icecap of
greenland. You see nothing but white snow all around you.
The obese, green mantis wearing a large red suit is here.

<prompt> Slay all
OK.



'Nough said..

Back to that example You put up Yoku... That.. wasn't good at all.. I agree.. I mean.. I got lost just reading that.. guys -EMOTE- before you do something, its like me walking in on you and you don't see me do anything, and WHAM you're dead.. it isn't right.

[jhunter]

Back to that example You put up Yoku... That.. wasn't good at all.. I agree.. I mean.. I got lost just reading that.. guys -EMOTE- before you do something, its like me walking in on you and you don't see me do anything, and WHAM you're dead.. it isn't right.

Just like running away with no chance to emote or anything is wrong too.
Honestly, I've had more people give me no visible rp before leaving my area than I've had the other way around. I even enter an area where someone is without getting a chance to emote out where or not I might appear hostile or anything, and they just get up and leave with no emotes or anything.

By what you all are saying, you have to do the same from the other side.
I honestly see more potential victims do this than I do potential attackers.

I see more people leave with no emotes or anything before the movement lag has worn off on the one entering.

Your like:

e

emote rides along through the grasses, guiding ~kank in a wide arc around ~dude.

And you get:

*Before your emote goes off.*

Dude leaves west.

You do not see that here.

OOC: Fucking loser.

See what I mean? As the potential aggressor you don't even get the chance to make any indication one way or the other of your intentions.

Edited to add: Which contributes to the aggressors having to move in and attack without taking the time to emote in order to have any chance of doing shit to the other person.

Every bit as annoying and frustrating as the other way around, I've said it before and I'm going to say it again:

I think that the first step is for victims to give it a chance to be any sort of situation at all before the aggressors will be able to go the other way.

Shit, all you have to do as the victim if they don't give you any outside rp for your enjoyment is to flee when they attack.

It really is much easier to run away from a fight that it is to be any sort of aggressor (whether you want to turn it into coded combat or not).

I may have only wanted to try and hold you up (resorting to killing only if you force me to) if I had even gotten a chance first.

Someone mentioned it in another thread and I agree, it should be much harder to escape a fight that it currently is.

I can far excede someone in combat ablilities and all they have to do is type "flee" and they get away.

That's just plain bullshit. If your that much better than someone in combat, they should have no chance to get away unless you choose to let them go.

I've seen newer, nonwarriors flee from over 40 day warriors in melee on the first try, it's totally lame and unrealistic.

[Travel Cake]

I once took a class where 40% of the class would fail, every time the class was given.  People would ask, "why don't you make it easier?" and the teacher replied, "Because I'd rather teach to the highest level, not the lowest denominator."

When we give up rping for a kill aren't we playing to the lowest denominator?

[Anonymous]

Other side of the token, when we give up rp to survive or keep from losing material possessions aren't we doing exactly the same?

[jhunter]

That kank was me,whoops. :oops:

[Delirium]

Do as your character would do.

If you have time to emote while doing that, great.

[Nidhogg]

Do as your character would do.

If you have time to emote while doing that, great.

Unless it's a link-dead newbie. In which case leave them alone.

[Delirium]

Unless it's a link-dead newbie. In which case leave them alone.

Well, yes.  To me, do as your character would do implies interacting with the gameworld and the (N)PCs in it, and I don't consider a link-dead newbie to be a current part of the gameworld.

Trouble does arise when you're not entirely sure if someone's linkdead or simply not responding to you, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Like CRW, I would hate to have a router hiccup and log in to find a beloved character dead, and so I will extend others the same courtesy I hope they would show me.

Regarding the above debate over emoting out a raiding scene, one thing I've found that comes useful is using directional emotes in place of actual emotes during combat situations, because you can usually get them out fairly quickly and, if used correctly, they can add a nice new dimension to an otherwise potentially flat scene.

>n (dashing away across the scrub)

versus

>n

Now, personally I don't consider myself to have very 'fancy' emotes, but I do try to bring the world and my character alive with them. Still, when I'm in the dead of combat or a chase, or if I've got several things/characters to pay attention to, or I'm tired, or being pestered at IRL, forgive me if I don't manage to illustrate the scene as fully as I usually might be able to. People behind the characters ARE human, they do get the "finger shakes", draw blanks, freeze up in startling situations, whatever, but it doesn't mean they're not trying.

This sentiment I seem to get from the GDB that you must emote to be roleplaying is bullshit. Well crafted emotes are the flavor and the spice, but they are not the meat. You died a sudden and brutal death? Sorry 'bout your luck. Not everyone gets to go out in a blaze of defiant glory, and I half think that's the real reason people get so upset over a death that wasn't fleshed out to the hilt. They wanted their beloved character's death to be special.

Well, heh. 90% of the time it's not going to be. That's the cruel beauty of Armageddon.

[Maybe42or54]

This current pc, I want just that.
Someone to invade my screen and all I get to see are combat messages of them destroying me.
Odd it may be. Deserved, it is. I'll leave blazes of glory to the nobles and templars. Being a commoner.
Short, bloody, and sweet. I want it that way.

[SanityAssassin]

Some of us don't emote as much as we'd like in combat because we are poor typists.  I never picked up the skill of typing fast or typing without looking at the keyboard (hunt and peck, baby).  Hell, sometimes conversations go too quick for me to do anything but the simplest of emotes while I reply.  Even though I am a fast reader, by the time I type out a long emote it is sometimes not even appropriate anymore.

I realize that a poor typist playing a MUD is like a 97-pound weakling learning to box.   A lack of intricate emotes in a fast paced situation does not make someone a twink.  The action could simply be going too fast for them to keep up with typing-wise.  I am led to believe that English is a second language for many players.  That could be another reason why combat emotes are short or even non-existant.

[Angela Christine]

Don't worry about typing speed, do what you can.  A few years of mudding will do wonders for your typing speed!  I've improved much more from years of MUDding than I did in several semesters of highschool keyboarding classes.  


As for who has more emotive responsibility:

:arrow: Before the attack, the attacker has more responsibility to emote, because he knows what is comming and has had time to prepare.  The victim is supprised, and if both the character and the player are surprised he probably won't be thinking straight right away.

:arrow: Durring a fight responsibility is about equal, but low.  You might as well throw out short emotes or other communication durring a long combat or durring skill delays, because there isn't anything else to do anyway.

:arrow: Durring a chase the leader has more responsibility than the chaser.  The leader has the advantage of being able to use their own movement delay to compose emotes, the chaser has to keep OOCly alert or they may lose the trail so they do not have as much leisure time for fancy typing.  Depending on how the chase is going, they may not see eachother's emotes, the emotes may fall into the voids when they are in seperate rooms.


AC

[Rhyden]

I can see there being less emoting during pfighting or any raiding. If I am hunting, I will almost always emote when I'm fighting it out with a beast I know my character can handle.

If I happen to be tackling a stronger, faster or more unexpected beast, I probably won't emote as much because emoting will be taking away my speed of getting out of there had something unexpected happened that could put my character in danger.

I think it it completely neccessary to emote before, during and after any sort of pfight so both sides know where everybody is coming from and what's happening.

Imagine it like this: if you walk into a room and see a character then begin to fight them, it would be as if they appeared in the room, irrelevant to where you both are, their eyes land right over to where you are, then they disappear and reappear right beside you, swinging their weapons away.  :shock:

"Roleplaying (RP) is not a recommendation on Armageddon, it is a requirement."

[jhunter]

Before the attack, the attacker has more responsibility to emote, because he knows what is comming and has had time to prepare. The victim is supprised, and if both the character and the player are surprised he probably won't be thinking straight right away.

Right but the potential victim must give you the opportunity to emote. Nine times out of ten I enter a room someone else is in and they just walk away codedly immediately. Don't even get the chance to emote.

[SanityAssassin]

Thanks for the advice on conflict-emotes AC and Rhyden.  I'll be sure to use it when I'm in that sort of sitaution again.

[Angela Christine]

Right but the potential victim must give you the opportunity to emote. Nine times out of ten I enter a room someone else is in and they just walk away codedly immediately. Don't even get the chance to emote.

If you are harmless, assume they wandered off before you got anywhere near them.  Wilderness rooms are big.

If you are a raider, do a better job on set-up.  Bandits usually attack in groups for a reason, if you have a group you can prevent escapes.  If you are going to try to go it alone then you need to set up an ambush.  If you can get the potential victim to walk into your room then you have the movement delay advantage. Lone highwaymen have a hard time, and rightfully so.  There is no way that one man can prevent escape from a patch of open desert.  


Personally, if someone talks to me I'll usually hear them out.  If someone charges toward me with murder in their eyes I'll run away.  That seems reasonable and even generous to me.


AC

[jhunter]

I've yet to play a bandit.

All this happens with my pcs that would never attack someone unprovoked. What I'm saying is that I don't get the opportunity to interact with people in the wilds at all.
Very rarely does someone not just leave the instant I enter the room.

That's why I probably won't ever make a bandit/raider. Way too many things OOCly against you in several aspects of it.

[Xygax]

Just a quick note:  had I happened on this thread earlier, I would have moderated it out of existence.  It is not appropriate to come to this board to complain about specific events which have affected your character recently in-game.  The original post was directly addressed in a format similar to "to the person who did XXXX: what you did is bad RP!"

If you want to give feedback (either positive or negative) to someone you've recently interacted with, do so by e-mailing the MUD account.

Let me reiterate:  this is not the forum for complaining about how you've been treated by other players, ICly or OOCly, or giving direct critiques of someone else's RP.  Don't do it.

Furthermore, a lot of the contributions to this thread have been on the edge of (or beyond the line) flames.  Don't do that, either.  This thread edges closer to being locked with each post I read.

If you want to offer a more vaguely worded critique, something along the lines of "I think it would really improve the game if people would take the time to emote out their acts of aggression, and here are some tips on how: ...." then that would be just the sort of conversation I feel is appropriate here.

-- X

[jhunter]

There is no way that one man can prevent escape from a patch of open desert.

See victims play unrealistically just to escape because they know codedly they can in some situations.

Example:

You hide in the brush/rocks or whatever alongside the road knowing your mark will be through on their return trip to the city.

Loaded crossbow in hand you wait for them.

The gangly, buck-toothed man arrives from the west atop a pink kank.

think (as the rider nears his place alongside the road) Alright...just a bit closer...here we go.

:rises up from the brush stepping quickly into the road before ~kank, leveling ~crossbow at %gangly face.

The dirty, highwayman rises up from the brush stepping quickly into the road before a pink kank, leveling his polka-dotted crossbow at the gangly, buck-toothed man's face.

say (keeping ~crossbow trained on %gangly face) Don't move! Drop your fecking pack on the road or I'll put this bolt right in your eye!

The gangly, buck-toothed man leaves west atop a pink kank.

You do not see that here.


Realistically if someone is pointing a loaded crossbow at your face, you don't fucking move...you don't jump off your mount and attack them because you OOCly know that they cannot kill you with the one shot to the face before you can get off your kank or get away at all.

If they are thinking ICly, then it should be completely possible for a lone bandit to hold up a lone rider in the wilds.

It is the OOC knowledge that the one crossbow bolt most likely isn't going to kill them before they can get away or attack.

Basically they know that they have the advantage because the code doesn't fully support the situation as dangerously as it should be.

The reason I say this is I saw someone else do this once with a pc of mine that happened to be tailing them. Of course the hidden parts are entirely made up, I don't know what they were doing before other than they were hidden when we showed up.

People should keep in mind certain things even if the game code does not support them.

[Cuusardo]

Not everyone will freeze up like a deer in the headlights of a car when they are confronted.  Some people's first instinct is to run like hell.  Chances are if you make your pink kank start running, the grungy raider is going to have a difficult time hitting a moving target that is galloping away into the distance.

[jhunter]

I guarantee you I can pull a trigger and get off a fatal or near fatal shot on someone before they can bolt around me.

Cuusardo what your saying is that if someone were to point a gun in your face you could easily get out of the way before they pull the trigger? C'mon, this isn't The Matrix.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Jhunter posted=I guarantee you I can pull a trigger and get off a fatal or near fatal shot on someone before they can bolt around me.

Cuusardo what your saying is that if someone were to point a gun in your face you could easily get out of the way before they pull the trigger? C'mon, this isn't The Matrix.

I agree with him, coz that's what I said before in another thread, it's only because the code does not support one hit kills/fatalities [other than backstab/certain poisons] that results people leaving the square even when you confront them.

Do you have faith in your steel armour or do you have faith in the crossbowman?

I recall talking/threatening a person in the rinthi, like real close and I emote walking closer, with my weapons in hand, and the guy just..disappeared..snuck away apparently. right before my intent eyes looking at him. I was glad he did though, I would have trouble hitting a jozhal then. [/quote]

[Grey Area]

So you're off doing your highway man act, holding up travellers with well-crafted emotes and giving plenty of oportunity for healthy roleplay to ensue. And... Your would-be victim completely ignores your valiant attempt and simply walks off the stage.

Big fucking deal. Their loss, right? They just exchanged a potentially unique roleplay scene for the dubious privilege of keeping their worthless and easily replacable personal possessions.

What have you lost? It's not like you needed their coin, because I'm pretty sure nobody expects to get rich in the game just by raiding. Just find another victim more inclined to play along. And if you're in the business solely for the OOC goal of stealing piles of equipment, rather than for the interesting and unusual lifestyle of an outlaw bandit, you just might be playing it for the wrong reasons. Go play a hunter, they make fuckloads more coin than a raider ever will.

[Dracul]

I'm very often playerkilled.
I very rarely playerkill.

No problems.



With a recent character I got pked by some...or ahh...was it...a lone pc...hmm . Anyways...I had a great expereicne...where it was maybe the third time I rped with them....and they couldve icly killed me on the first meet.   But my connection went shitty each time...and I dropped linkdead.  Several minutes later...it wasn't an instaneous re-login...and I was still fine. They paused for me like that.

That was awesome.

And when my charcter stepped too far and my link was fine. They killed me.

Kinda sucked...as dying does. but it was a nice experience.
I'd really like to give more details to say props to who killed me...but I'll just say if you read this maybe you'll know it was you. And props.
My stint as a dwarf was short lived.

[Angela Christine]

There is no way that one man can prevent escape from a patch of open desert.

See victims play unrealistically just to escape because they know codedly they can in some situations.

Example:

You hide in the brush/rocks or whatever alongside the road knowing your mark will be through on their return trip to the city.

Loaded crossbow in hand you wait for them.

The gangly, buck-toothed man arrives from the west atop a pink kank.

think (as the rider nears his place alongside the road) Alright...just a bit closer...here we go.

:rises up from the brush stepping quickly into the road before ~kank, leveling ~crossbow at %gangly face.

The dirty, highwayman rises up from the brush stepping quickly into the road before a pink kank, leveling his polka-dotted crossbow at the gangly, buck-toothed man's face.

say (keeping ~crossbow trained on %gangly face) Don't move! Drop your fecking pack on the road or I'll put this bolt right in your eye!

I suspect that if this happens it may be because of player panic, or because the other player has a different vision of your relative positions.  You may believe that the guy was riding right toward you carelessly, he may believe that he was no where near you.  Some guy a mile away aims a crossbow at my face, I bet I've got a good chance of riding away.   A big open wilderness square with 3 or more exits is a HUGE space, and the different percepetion of that space accounts for many wilderness misunderstandings.  In general an open wilderness room is 1 square league, which is 9 square miles (3X3).  

Personally I think running from crossbow guy is a mistake.  You know OOCly that a single crossbow isn't going to kill your character, and he doesn't have a melee weapon ready, so why not cautiously stand there and see what he wants?  If the thug's demands are reasonable, paying him off is the easiest way of dealing with him.


AC

[jhunter]

I suspect that if this happens it may be because of player panic, or because the other player has a different vision of your relative positions. You may believe that the guy was riding right toward you carelessly, he may believe that he was no where near you. Some guy a mile away aims a crossbow at my face, I bet I've got a good chance of riding away. A big open wilderness square with 3 or more exits is a HUGE space, and the different percepetion of that space accounts for many wilderness misunderstandings. In general an open wilderness room is 1 square league, which is 9 square miles (3X3).

Yeah, but in that particular situation the aggressor was hidden. I think it's perfectly acceptable to assume that if you did not see him he was however close to you he wants to be when he reveals himself and you should play it that way.

[Bored of arguing this one]

Hmm.. I don't think most of the players are mature enough to accept loss. That's all I can say. I can't tell a lot because it would be too IC (was IC for me before this char) but...
Let's think you have a way to skip movement delay. Unbelieveable speed. Then also you have a way to totally immobilize the victim instantly. Perfect suit for a raider eh? It's also IC for your char to raid so you start trying...
Trial #1: You see the victim from afar. So you start moving closer, then wait till you see he's doing a foraging action. You wait a little more 'think'ing about giving it some time till he gets distracted. You walk to a close road and look for the tracks on the road making sure noone has arrived lately. Eh good. You're alone...
>e (charging with an unbelieveable speed)
>emote <forgive me.. even giving the emote I do would be too IC but it's the emoting of a spell, as you may guess.)
The hoboo walks east.
>(shift+home, Del to clean the emote)think Oh, he's escaping...
... Oh... He has escaped three rooms but three rooms mean nothing for you. You dash east with three strokes on your keyboard.....
>emote <again the same emote...>
The hoboo walks east.
.......
Last Trial: Everything's the same.. But you're so bored of folks hitting direction keys right after you do your first emote so...
>e (raising a dustcloud as he charges with an unbelieveable speed.);<Your friendly spell alias with a canned emote here.> hoboo
.......
Thanks to the gemmed vivaduan, the _only_ person who did not instantly hit a direction key, the same person who would probably know that the spell I was casting could be a spell instantly killing. Thank you and know that you were the only one.. This is why I got bored after a few trials and gave up raiding.. It's not funnier than killing NPCs.
So; what's the point? What's the point of arguing if each of you would still simply hit a direction key right after someone walks in with an emote? Please let's lock all similar discussions including this one and keep on.
The good RPers already do respect to other folks, I believe. They stop when you start emoting. The others, I don't care whatever they say in GDB, would still instantly type 'east'. So what's the point in beating the dead horse?

[Dracul]

You know...what I would love to see is more non-lethal endings.

Dude gets the shit kicked out him by a gang...likely if you let him live he'll try to get you killed. It'd be great if he only tried to get you beat to an inch of your life, and left it at that.

More agruments, more brawls, more humiliations, more beatings.
Less actually murders.


Now I don't mean to ask this too strongly, as of course killing is a very strong aspect of armagedoon. But...it'd be nice to see situations that dont escalate to the extremes. So I'm not talking anything down...Im not saying htere should be change and it's bad. Just encouraging.

Anyways...I gotta pk some of all you guys just to get back up to equal.

[Rhyden]

Dracul, that would be ideal with several gangs/raiders/pkillers in general but there are those who will be twinkish and remember every detail of their attacker, leaving the raider to have to avoid cities/outposts local to the attack place.  :?

[jhunter]

Dracul, that would be ideal with several gangs/raiders/pkillers in general but there are those who will be twinkish and remember every detail of their attacker, leaving the raider to have to avoid cities/outposts local to the attack place.

Yep, them and their x-ray vision being able to recognize someone they hardly know.

I know of one player who is EXTREMELY bad about this right now and I find it disgusting.

[Maybe42or54]

I use this rule of thumb for all my pcs.
I will read the person's Desc, then read a few of the room descriptions (It doesn't matter which). Wait a few days, if I remember anything about them, That is what my pc would know.
Most of the time, all I will remember is that one odd sentence.

[Yokunama]

Just a quick note:  had I happened on this thread earlier, I would have moderated it out of existence.  It is not appropriate to come to this board to complain about specific events which have affected your character recently in-game.  The original post was directly addressed in a format similar to "to the person who did XXXX: what you did is bad RP!"

If you want to give feedback (either positive or negative) to someone you've recently interacted with, do so by e-mailing the MUD account.

Let me reiterate:  this is not the forum for complaining about how you've been treated by other players, ICly or OOCly, or giving direct critiques of someone else's RP.  Don't do it.

Furthermore, a lot of the contributions to this thread have been on the edge of (or beyond the line) flames.  Don't do that, either.  This thread edges closer to being locked with each post I read.

If you want to offer a more vaguely worded critique, something along the lines of "I think it would really improve the game if people would take the time to emote out their acts of aggression, and here are some tips on how: ...." then that would be just the sort of conversation I feel is appropriate here.

-- X

Its been a few days since I've been around the aura of Armageddon.

Lets get started with my post....

Towards the text in red:
Actually, I really wasn't complaining about how I've been treated in the game or out of it. I was trying to point out the obvious facts. The facts that anger and frustrate most of the decent roleplayers that get PKed.

Yes, I was a bit angry that a failed PK attempt showed no hints of roleplaying, but someone needs to say something whenever things such as this start to get out of hand. I've seen it before, and it usually tends to run off most of the colorful (creative) roleplayers in the game.

Towards the text in green:
Futhermore, you should know that I am a newbie to these boards the game in general. And did not know that you "give feedback" to the players by mailing the mud.

Added:
I started this thread in hopes to get some people to give some helpful examples on how to actually PK someone and getting people to take this advice. Instead of having players thinking that it is ok to sit through 30+ rounds of combat waiting for the vitcim to fall down on their face. I know that death and playerkilling are part of the game, but doing it without roleplaying is disturbing and sickening to those who actually care.

Edited: Added

[Maybe42or54]

Here is an idea.
When you have an awesome experience, or a good experience, Email the mud to compliment that player for their good job at considering you as more than an NPC>

[Rhyden]

Here is an idea.
When you have an awesome experience, or a good experience, Email the mud to compliment that player for their good job at considering you as more than an NPC>

Right on. I've just started to take that concept into mind. Whenever I have a very enjoyable experience due to excellent role-playing, I'll email the imms about what happened and those involved. Whether they treat you as more than an NPC or their emotes are totally out of this world.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Agreed, guys, on stuff like this.. please, -PLEASE- email the Mud account and not bother us about it.. or I'm going to have to form the anti-mud mailing account assosiation, AMMAA.

Right, staff?