Drawing the Line

[Kankman]

I hate Tuluk. Really, I can't stand the place. The immortals did an amazing job on it, the social history, the city itself, everything is immaculately crafted. I just can't damn well stand the place. I never feel "at home" playing any of my characters there. It always feels wrong. It almost feels like another game.

When I started playing the Northlands was Freil's and the Sanctuary. Those who know, know what I'm talking about. At that point I could stand it. I even enjoyed it at times.

This is something I've been thinking about since the new city was built and I realized I wouldn't likely be playing there for any long period of time. The reasoning? I'm a 'Nakki through and through. I can't help it, when it comes right down to it, I outside of any character I play, am a citizen of Allanak, (dis)loyal to the Great Highlord Tektolnes, the Dragon Himself.

How do you folks feel?
(Edited to continue thought, interrupted by home intruder)
Do you feel allied to one city-state or another for any particular reason?

[deinol]

Last time I saw Tuluk, it was a crater. I still remember the old Tuluk, but it was never home for me. Sometimes a place of refuge when I needed to get away fron 'nak, but it was always a place to visit, never stay. I don't know why, but the south has always seemed to be more interesting for me. Even when I was rebel scum. Maybe especially so.

[Bestatte]

I like both, each for completely different reasons. But then, I wasn't an Armer "way back when" Tuluk was just two buildings and a whole lotta nuttin.

For a less harsh (but definitely not Unharsh) environment, different clothing and armor styles, change of scenery, interesting critters to hunt, the life of a ranger in general, I prefer the north.

For politics, in all its evil nasty ugly wicked glory, nothing beats Allanak.

[ShaLeah]

I hate to say this but I hate Tuluk with a murderous passion. I think the place sucks. I believe it was made specifically to be the exact opposite of Allanak:

Hate of country vs Love of country

Hate of authority vs Respect of authority

Hatred of theft/murder (unless you're the law committing those acts then it's okay of course) vs Admiration of theft/murder to the point where you invite said thieves and murderers to register so that you can aid their business.

Oppression/blatant usage/toying of the common vs Respecting the common because for a LONG time you had to live among them as equals, not their betters but you can't bed one cause THAT would be considered crass *scratch*

Controlling and fear of magicks via gem vs hatred and persecution of anything magicks - nevermind that your RULER is a magicker

Dry, barren city vs lush, thriving greenery

Admiration of money/power vs Admiration of the arts

I could go on but I won't, you get my drift.


I played a (little wild girl) character right at the turn of the power in the northlands, a templar basically took possession of her and ordered her around, sometimes in a -very- mean manner, it was almost like being in Nak. The transition phase, where all the kinks weren't worked out yet, was more pleasant to me than the end result.

Maybe I haven't played Tuluk enough to see its beautiful side but it seems like Tuluk is all talk. They fake the funk on being tuluki but when it comes down to it, where are all the burglars and assassins who are admired and respected for their "art"? Where is the bardic presence that does more than meddle in the lives of everyone around them and occassionally hold a bardic competition? Why is the Byn there when they helped Tek during the war? Where are all the independently wealthy hunters who thrive so well that they can own anything, they can start businesses, sway politics?

Subtlety does NOT mean you hide everything like it doesn't exist.

The funny thing is that when Allanak occupied the north and you visited it in game it felt like a whole different place. It felt magickal. Now I have to pretend it's magickal because it's just boring to me.

[Kankman]

Way to firmly etch your mark on the 'Nak side of the tally board ShaLeah.
:twisted:

[elvenchipmunk]

I for one like Tuluk very much. I just find it to be a lot more fun, it feels more like home for me (I guess you could say). I have never actually made a nakki, but I've been to Allanak and I just don't like it. Heh.

[Kankman]

I bet it has a lot to do with where you make your first character.

[Bestatte]

My first (second, and third) characters were all in Allanak. That comprises approximately 13 months of game play. I -still- think Tuluk is awesome for things that Allanak lacks, and vice versa. Each has its downsides and benefits, to me.

[Delirium]

Can I put in a vote for "neither" as my favorite?

Some of us prefer dustier locales.

[Cuusardo]

I like Tuluk because I like all that artsy fartsy crap, and I like all of the underhanded backstabbing that goes on.  (It's so much fun to totally ruin someone without them even knowing that you did it.)  I also agree with the fact that hunting in the north is a lot more fun because there are a lot more critters to hunt.  Not to mention halflings...  Fighting with a halfling is always a rush and a half.

[Anonymous]

Labyrinth, Tablelands, Mal Krian, Red Storm - to an extent.

Everything else I cannot stand to play for a long period of time.

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[Rhyden]

Exact opposite from you, Kankman. For me, it's Tuluk, or it's another game. But I don't mind travelling a little bit, it just never feels like home, just like Allanak does to you. Eventually, one day, I'll start a character off in the south, but not yet.

[WarriorPoet]

A character long ago once said:

Tuluk? No. I would -NOT- like to go there. I'd prolly see all them fancy, perty things and just shit - everywhere.

That about sums it up for me. Nakki and proud.

Though I will agree that it's probably where you create your first character, or mebbe where you start that first character that really 'fits' you. My first few characters were 'disposable', but once I had that character that really slid right into the world and kept be engrossed, it was in Nak. I don't think Tuluk would have kept me here, to tell the truth. Just not my style...

[Agent_137]

I haven't had a char that's really -lived- in tuluk, nor been born in tuluk.

I'll let you know how it goes, when it happens.

Actually, I'll probably forget.

But as it stands now, I'm comfortable in 'nak, but dislike the politics.

Well, I'm not a big politics fan in either city state, really.

[Empress]

I've only had a few characters and all of 'em have been in Tuluk!

It reminds me of Canada actually, more space, people are friendlier, booze is way better, and we can actually smoke drugs in public!  I mean c'mon people!   :wink:  (j/k about the drug thing...  kind of...)

[xX_Cathedral_Xx]

I've only had a few characters and all of 'em have been in Tuluk!

It reminds me of Canada actually, more space, people are friendlier, booze is way better, and we can actually smoke drugs in public!  I mean c'mon people!   :wink:  (j/k about the drug thing...  kind of...)

No wonder the Canadians are dispised.. *Coughs*

[Manhattan]

red storm east, baby.  

[xX_Cathedral_Xx]

Tuluk... Well, Tuluk is just.. pussified..

[Ktavialt]

Tuluk... Well, Tuluk is just.. pussified..

Amen.

[Halaster]

I'm personally conflicted and confused and undecided as to which I like better.  I was the Imm in charge of the Allanaki templarate AND the Tuluki templarate when Allanak invaded.  And then I ran the rebellion while still looking over the Allanaki militia.  Talk about confused.. who do I like?  Where are my loyalties?  I like both.  I really like the history of Tuluk because we (as a staff + playerbase) got to see it happen, and make it happen, and enjoy it happening.  Going from the old city before the cataclysm, to the rubble afterwards and the 'Northern Alliance' to the invasion, and the occupation, and finally the liberation.  That's just down-right some kick-ass stuff.  Allanak doesn't have that history, so much, but its depth and feel is just so.. cool.  So Allanak.  One of my most favorite characters ever that I played was an Allanaki templar (second only to a Blackwing elf)

So.. my official vote, I suppose would be:  Both.  Neither.  I don't know.

[Krath]

I enjoy both Allanak and Tuluk..I myself am confused as to which to select much like Halaster.
I can enjoy and appreciated the underhanded backstabbing of the north, as well as the open
hatred towards someone and their demise in the south.  Over the last, four-five years, I have
had a total of four PCs, 3 Tulukis and One Allanaki, and I have extremely enjoyed all the roles.
Both cities have pros and cons, however, I do not think One overtops the other, I believe
the "feeling at home" affect comes from how you play your characters and demeanor IRL.

Just IMHO

[JollyGreenGiant]

I enjoy Tuluk quite a bit.  Once I've had a long-term character in Allanak, I'll probably enjoy Allanak quite a bit.  As far as some of the more rabid anti-Tuluki sentiment goes, I've seen enough characters come and go in Tuluk to form the opinion that some of you confuse "body count" with "brutal" and wouldn't know subtle if it bit you in the face.

[LBO]

Allanak for me definitely - the gritty and savage feel to it is great. I like the more marked differences between the various groups such as noble houses, merchant houses commoners, 'rinthers that exist in Allanak. I like how there is an established criminal underworld in Allanak. I prefer how magickers can play as magickers in Allanak and can get involved in plots based on what they are instead of having to hide it all the time. I enjoy how the hunting around Allanak is more dangerous and keeps you on your toes. That isn't to say that Tuluk is bad - it does seem a pretty cool place and it offers a different style of roleplay (which is good I think) but its not to my taste personally. Different strokes for different folks I suppose - down here in Allanak we reckon that one at neck height generally suffices  :wink:

[Cuusardo]

There is an established criminal underworld in Tuluk.  It's just not as obvious as the one in Allanak.

[LBO]

There is an established criminal underworld in Tuluk.  It's just not as obvious as the one in Allanak.

Established was the wrong term to use on my part. It might be there but in my opinion its vastly under-used by us the players. Virtually nobody plays a real criminal type character up in Tuluk for a number of reasons I can think of straight off the top of my head. I know there have been exceptions to this but the vast majority of people who want to play a criminal play in Allanak, often in the 'rinth, as this is where criminal action and interaction is at. Having said that I think there is a great opportunity for somebody to leave their mark (subtly of course!) on Tuluk by establishing a criminal group that has a lasting legacy, becomes something that players can continue to join in the future and has Imm support like the Guild or HK. Speaking from personal experience it is very difficult for a proper criminal organisation to continue to exist and function properly without Imm supervision and support. Maybe this already exists in Tuluk but if it does it is so hidden as to be unbeneficial for ordinary criminal type characters.

[Krath]

There is an established criminal underworld in Tuluk.  It's just not as obvious as the one in Allanak.

Established was the wrong term to use on my part. It might be there but in my opinion its vastly under-used by us the players. Virtually nobody plays a real criminal type character up in Tuluk for a number of reasons I can think of straight off the top of my head. I know there have been exceptions to this but the vast majority of people who want to play a criminal play in Allanak, often in the 'rinth, as this is where criminal action and interaction is at. Having said that I think there is a great opportunity for somebody to leave their mark (subtly of course!) on Tuluk by establishing a criminal group that has a lasting legacy, becomes something that players can continue to join in the future and has Imm support like the Guild or HK. Speaking from personal experience it is very difficult for a proper criminal organisation to continue to exist and function properly without Imm supervision and support. Maybe this already exists in Tuluk but if it does it is so hidden as to be unbeneficial for ordinary criminal type characters.

I can not begin to stress how horribly wrong you are. Remember, being subtle is the Key up north.

[LBO]

I can not begin to stress how horribly wrong you are. Remember, being subtle is the Key up north.

I stand corrected... very subtly too. Seems like I'll have to make a criminal character up there to get to the bottom of all of this as, admittedly, I have no knowledge of a nothern ogranised criminal group. So even the criminals are subtle folk up there eh? Sounds wonderful, if a little odd for your ordinary rabble type of criminal.

Well, at least I have a character concept in mind for the future - in a world where everybody moves in curves I think it'd be interesting to see what a group could do moving in straight lines. Ordinary, scummy criminals often are notorious for not using a key.

[Xamminy]

Remember the North's affection for art.  Even assassination and theft are an art form to Tuluki's.  Your so-called 'ordinary rabble type of criminal' is without art and thus will have a short career as the artists make the blunderer's life quite difficult.

[Delirium]

Remember the North's affection for art.  Even assassination and theft are an art form to Tuluki's.  Your so-called 'ordinary rabble type of criminal' is without art and thus will have a short career as the artists make the blunderer's life quite difficult.

You know, this makes me wonder. How would this cause Tuluki to view elves?

After all, if elves pride themselves on and compete with each other to be the best conmen, thieves, and slick mofos around.. wouldn't that actually be less of a "get out of my way you filthy longneck" thing and more of a "whatever you do, don't trust him, but damn he's good" thing?

[Krath]

Remember the North's affection for art.  Even assassination and theft are an art form to Tuluki's.  Your so-called 'ordinary rabble type of criminal' is without art and thus will have a short career as the artists make the blunderer's life quite difficult.

You know, this makes me wonder. How would this cause Tuluki to view elves?

After all, if elves pride themselves on and compete with each other to be the best conmen, thieves, and slick mofos around.. wouldn't that actually be less of a "get out of my way you filthy longneck" thing and more of a "whatever you do, don't trust him, but damn he's good" thing?

You are exactly on point. However, it also depends on the background of your PC. But,
for the most part yes, that is the correct assumption.

[Maybe42or54]

Red Storm. All the way.

Tuluk, it is only obvious every bard is an assasin. Wait.. or is that Allanak? (J/k, I don't know) Tuluk has good alcohol.
Allanak, Keeps killing me everytime I spend more than a couple hours.
Luir's, Well... They've never liked me. It is probably my awesome attractiveness that gets all ze girls.
Red Storm, Rotten fruit, alone time, expensive spice, A couple nice alleyways to get my freak on.
Red Storm East, So far out there, who cares?
Blackwing- Eh.. What's up bucko? You have to look up at 'em. I'd rather just cut 'em off at the knees.

[Xamminy]

Okay, seriously, why does everyone think that every bard is an assassin?

[Delirium]

I remember being amused at the honest shock my warrior/bard recieved for actually being able to kick ass and take numbers. I guess it's a stereotypical concept; play a magicker or an assassin and hide it behind a bardic routine. Theoretically, the Circles DO have a (somewhat) well hidden "underside".. after all, they're highly political creatures if they're going to be at all rich and successful. That doesn't mean they have to be class assassin at all, though.

[Angela Christine]

Warrior bard sounds dangerous.  What if you damage your precious hands?  :shock:

Angela Christine

[Agent_137]

laff @ derailment.

For me, from my old MUD of 7 years, a bard was primary guild.

His first focus was lore, second was weapons, third was magic. Or maybe magic and weapons were switched, but you get the idea.

So an assasin bard was a foreign concept for me until I hit this mud. And I still don't like the idea.

[Ghost]

Seems like I'll have to make a criminal character up there to get to the bottom of all of this as, admittedly, I have no knowledge of a nothern ogranised criminal group. So even the criminals are subtle folk up there eh? Sounds wonderful, if a little odd for your ordinary rabble type of criminal.

If you want to see how a ciminal PC (not organization) goes in Tuluk, go for it.  It has a different view from Allanak.

If you want to see, and learn, about the criminal organization in Tuluk, go for it.  Just to quench your curiosity.

If you want to play IN a criminal organization, I suggest dont pick up Tuluk.  Just dont, I strongly believe you will be disappointed.  
Suggestion:
Pick up the labyrinth, if you want to play in a mafia.  You will also find relative subtlety, as well.  Keep these in mind...

As I said, these are suggestions.

[Xamminy]

Okay, well, if we go back to the Dark Sun roots of things, we see that the bard class in the Dark Sun setting of AD&D 2E were all assassins.  The bard class gave them all the ability to make poisons.  They were often hired as gifts for other nobles...but the noble that was gifted with the bardic performance was never sure if the bard was simply sent as a performer or an assassin, so to refuse a bard was considered an insult, but all bard's were watched carefully and thus had to be good at what they did when they actually went to assassinate someone.  However, they didn't have the backstab ability, and AD&D 2E did not have an assassin class, merely a kit for rogues (basically a template that alters a class for those not familiar enough with 2E to know what I'm talking about)...but any thief could be an assassin, really.

[Agent_137]

sounds like geisha.

[jhunter]

My favorite was the old Allanak. Back when the 'rinth actually felt like part of the city, just a really rundown and filthy place. Since it was changed, it doesn't feel at all like it's a part of the city (a really bad and rundown part). It feels more like another place entirely, I think it was much better and more realistic when it felt like a slum of the city rather than an entirely different place. (Just a maze of alleyways put there for the sole purpose of differentiating it from the rest of the city.)

I agree with others as well, the old Tuluk was much better and felt more at place within the world.

At the moment I play in both, but I stick mostly with Tuluk because remembering how 'Nak used to be before it was rewritten just disappoints me.

[Gaare]

Usually player base of Tuluk is mostly composed of non-city characters, hunters, collectors, etc.. Other than that IMO Tuluk is more Zalanthian and ARMish than Allanak.


ARM's motto is "Death, corruption, betreyal"

Death:
  In Tuluk losing a character in city is much easier than the ones in 'nak. Yes there is no 'rinth but still it has warrens, under Tuluk. And you can pay small amounts to templarate for getting permission to kill another. Also templars are as ruthless as the 'naki, but they simply do not let many to know they killed someone unlike 'naki ones. Tuluk citizens disappear, 'naki die.


Corruption:
 If one is gentle, that does not mean he is less corrupt, sissy or patriotic. That only means he has a different style of behaving. Unlike 'naki, tuluk norms are not easy to understand. I see people try to behave all Tuluki are loyal to city-state and even does not try to bribe autorities fearing it would be consired as treason. Just the culture and methods are different, not people. After all Tuluk is in a city in Zalanthas.

Betreyal:
  You can not see twisted relations of Tuluki people if you play a hunter. It requires time to be part of it and understand the flows of the society. I personally saw more betreyals, and twisted relations in Tuluk. Just simply Tulukis do not curse and draw their weapons, they smile and wait you to turn back.