Language accent's

[WhiteRanger]

Why is that when you learn allundean from a southern elf, if you are northern you still speak allundean with a northern accent? This dosent make alot of sense to me, I think it would make more sense if you spoke allundean with a southern accent, when you heard the language, it was spoken with a southern accent, so you should copy those sounds, not magically put your own accent on this language that is new to you. Especially an accent that just happens to sound like all of those northerner's accents.

Here is the idea...when you learn a new language, based on what accent you learned it in, that accent should carry over to that specific language for you. This would keep alot of people from pointing at you and yelling 'Northy' just because of the way you speak a certain language.

This also opens up a new door for perhaps a change accent skill for those rogues and thiefy types out there. I could see it branching from listen easily.

I know this isnt the most important thing in the world, but just something that would add to the realism of the game. If I learn german from a northern german, I wont sound like a southern german, just because I am from south america and my english is southern. I think that makes sense.

[Xamminy]

Knowing more than most, all I will say is that this would require some work with the language code.  I'm not sure this would be worth the work put into it.

Other reasoning, you speak with a northern accent...sure you learned allundean from a rinthi, but you're still learning what words are what, and your accent is still showing through.

Now if we could have layers, like speaking in northern rinthi accent, now that'd be cool...but still, lots of work.

[Linedel]

I learned Mandarin Chinese at UCLA, which (as with most west coast colleges) teaches in an accent that is a mix between "no accent" (xi men - west gate) and "Beijing" (xi me(n)'r).

I speak (ok, spoke, I forgot most of it) Mandarin with a mix of accents between "none", "Beijing" and "American," with "American" being heaviest by far.

Similarly, I was taught Arabic by a Lebanese woman teaching Egyptian Arabic (the most common dialect).  But regardless of whether I say dajjazh (everyone else) vs. daggag (Egypt) for "chicken", I'm sure when I say either, my sounds are similarly off in a fully American way.

Yes, you'll do a _few_ things in the accent that you're learning from, but the way you use your voicebox is mostly determined while you're young.  Very few people will significantly change how they speak.  The system is fine, and regardless of complexity, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to change.


(Note: The above analysis may be less applicable in Zalanthas.  Zalanthian languages are mostly related to each other (see documentation), and thus it is likely that most of them share most of their sounds.  The languages noted above share almost nothing (besides mama and baba - almost all languages share those) with English, and each have a dozen sounds that English does not use.  Meaning my American accent is probably less obvious in German than in Chinese, with English sharing most (all?) of its sounds with German.)

[sjanimal]

I think the original poster is hitting on a larger point -- the portion of the code that pertains to languages is somewhat buggy and sometimes is restrictive of roleplay.

[Xamminy]

I don't believe the system is buggy, sjanimal.  It could use work, but it does work fine.  Now, if you can give an example of how it is buggy, please do, because you are not backing up your claim.

[Dracul]

I don't believe the system is buggy, sjanimal.  It could use work, but it does work fine.  Now, if you can give an example of how it is buggy, please do, because you are not backing up your claim.

No no...I wouldn't say it's buggy.  But let me say something... "hef rae noe"  you can tell how many letters per words...oh..and one thing I noted...my char didnt know allundean..but when someone types numbers in a language...those arent scrambled.

You can sometimes tell what someone is getting at just from the letter distribution.

[mansa]

I consider it a bug.  It gives off code advantage to those who shouldn't have it.  (Code Advantage as per Character Origin, Clan Identity, and Character Citizenship)

Now, this -bug- isn't much of a 'BIG' one on the lists... but it still affects -my- play and develope of my characters, because I know that this person speaks with a 'rinth accent'd kentu.

[Xamminy]

So...mansa would prefer no accents?

As far as numbers are concerned, people shouldn't be using them.  You don't speak in numbers, you speak a word that corresponds to a number.  Really, 2 isn't a word, but two is.  Don't use numerics in speech on the mud.

I also understand the length of word thing, as I've figured out what someone was saying from by word length...but really, the only other way I could see it working (and more realistically actually) to do it would by by word, making the length of the word determine how difficult the understanding of the word would be...and if the person didn't check their language check, scramble the word, adding or subtractig up to, say, two letters.

I wouldn't not call language code buggy, just in need of improvement, as I said.

[Linedel]

Numbers are probably ok.

Zalanthian languages are all related, and thus probably have similar numbers.  Numbers are one of the first things you learn in any language.

In addition for Tuluk, it has a tribal market - if you ever trade there, you're going to know numbers in every common tribal language whether you know the language or not.

Granted, this is somewhat a copout, but its justifyable based on reality; so I'd say whatever the staff says goes on this one, 'cause there are arguments for both sides.

[moab]

I think numbers are alright - as is guessing at words by the length of the letters....as mansa pointed out can be done.

This may simulate, perhaps, all the body language and whatnot that goes on when two people of different languages interact.

[Bestatte]

I don't think I'd ever fault someone for typing the numeric symbol rather than spelling out the word itself...

But I find it personally jarring. It just looks awkward to me, and "feels" wrong so I won't ever do it. I tried looking in novels for characters talking about costs of things, or sizes, or other numeric expressions. I found many, and none of them used the numeric symbols in their text-created speech.

"It'll need to be at least three and a half leagues long," said the wizard to his apprentice, "so get cracking and spell yourself up around six thousand coins for the cost of the wood."

just looks more smooth and flows better than

"It'll need to be at least 3.5 leagues long," said the wizard to his apprentice, "so get cracking and spell yourself up around 6000 coins for the cost of the wood."

As for understanding speech, I think I disagree somewhat. I have problems understanding thick foreign accents in real life, and over the phone, "fifty" sounds exactly like "sixty" to me, even if it's in flawless English. I can totally see people getting numbers confused unless they're using their fingers to indicate through emotes which number they're referring to.

[Cuusardo]

Numbers bypass the language code, just like emoting speech does.

[sjanimal]

Xamminy,

I don't think that our claim is that there should be -NO- accents.

But I think that some characters (linguists for example) should be able to modify their accents.

Also, for the most part you will be stuck with one of two accents (Northern or Southern.)

This kind of simplifies cultural interaction to the point of:

"OMG U ARE FROM THE NORTH I WILL KILL U"

Which is somewhat sketchy considering the entire known world is thought to be only as large as Montana.  Do you honestly think you could tell the difference between a North Montana and a South Montana accent?  

Also, the accents tend to reflect where the characters starts, not character background.  I think that I could be happy with the accents, provided the players had a bit more say over it.

So, over all, language system = strong but has the potential to be much stronger.

[Anonymous]

Actually.. I don't know about Montana, seeing as I've never really known anyone from there, but if you compaired to the accents to another state that had a bit more diversity in it, or a little thicker accent, you could probably tell just which end they were from if you were from that state, too.

Though I agree that eventually I think someone who spends -massive- amounts of time speaking another language could be able to affect a different accent, if it's an accent of someone they've heard speak quiteoften as well. So if a southern human spent absolutely -all- their time in Tuluk listening to those barbaric northerners talk, eventually they could mimic the accents. And I agree that linguists should get a bump to this, seeing as they have a natural aptitude for accents anyway.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Eh, that was me, and I meant an aptitude for languages, not accents. *shrug* Oops.

[Spoon]

My French teacher at school had a French accent.

However, when I try and speak French, I sound like an English twat, trying to speak French.

Also, think of Apu from the Simpsons. He probably learnt English in America. I know he's not real, but TV wouldn't lie to me.

[sjanimal]

InsertCleverNameHere,

You certainly make a valid point.  However the current game code is too cut and dry to serve to stimulate complexities or interesting role playing.  It lacks nuance.

One Time I played a character who grew up on the desert sands.  What accent should he have had?  Probably a red-neck, desert man kind of accent.  What accent did he have?  Tuluk, because I started in Tuluk.  

As people point out -- there are countless situations where the inflexibility of the language system detracts from gaming possibilities rather than contributes to gaming possibilities.  At the very least, I think that players should have the option to turn accent off.  I could live with that.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I don't think giving the option just to turn an accent off. At least not without the same restrictions as learning a new accent and all that, because you'd get people doing it right out the gate so they could play 'nakki spy in Tuluk, and vice versa, without bothering to 'learn' how to speak like a northerner, act like a northerner, etc.
Just being able to 'turn off' an accent has way too much potential for abuse.

[Adhira]

Not letting people change their accents is not a bug, it is deliberate (at this point in time). People receive the accent of the city they point to, to begin the game with.  If their background states something differently they can email the mud to have the appropriate accent given to their PC. If they wish to RP out learning to change their accent - email the mud.

Changing accents is not that easy, how many movies have you seen where the American is trying to affect a British accent (for example) and the sounds just make you cringe?

[joyofdiscord]

This kind of simplifies cultural interaction to the point of:

"OMG U ARE FROM THE NORTH I WILL KILL U"

You have really seen foreigner interaction in the game conducted on this sort of crude terms?  I must say I've been remarkably lucky, then, in what I've witnessed.  Players have usually handled things quite realistically.  If the above is happening, it's the players doing it, not the accent echo.

Which is somewhat sketchy considering the entire known world is thought to be only as large as Montana.  Do you honestly think you could tell the difference between a North Montana and a South Montana accent?

You can't tell me you don't know this is a ridiculous comparison.  Just because the Known World is the roughly the same land area as one of the most sparsely populated, least linguistically diverse regions of one of the least linguistically diverse nations in the world doesn't mean the language distribution is likely to be the same.  There are regions in our world much smaller than Montana which are home to well over ten times the number of languages as in Zalanthas, each of which have vast dialectical variations from one town to another.  

Zalanthas features peoples in settlements pretty well isolated by harsh terrain and cultural hostility, which is an ideal breeding ground for linguistic separation.  Just because PC's manage to travel frequently from one city to another doesn't mean it's very common for an average citizen.  

The accent code, in it's current simple but elegant state, seems to me to be about perfect.  Northern and Southern accents pretty well represent, from what I've read in the docs and GDB, and experienced, about what areas tend to have the most population circulation within themselves.  Rinthi and Tribal accents are both appropriate inclusions as well.  Giving D-elves some sort of accent would be nice, but their is already a language barrier which has more profound implications for social interactions anyway.  Accents for nonnative speakers before perfecting their languages might be nice as well, but the language scrambler already gives a sense of this.  

As far as having "only" two main accents, it's been suggested to add more fine distinctions of accent, discernible only to those who are local enough to be able to tell the difference, but this also opens up questions of "my Tuluki has lived in the rinth for six years and should be able to distinguish eastside/westside by now" which have to be modified manually, or else the system is complicated tenfold codewise.  These situations can already be handled quite effectively with RP, which is how I think most would probably prefer to handle it.

I'll also say again that mimicing an accent is extremely difficult, much more difficult than learning another language.  There could be a possibility of adding this ability to the mud's benefit, as long as this fact was taken into account.

Over all, language system=pretty amazing and close to perfect, and I'm picky on the matter. Characters have a lot of room to roleplay questions of regionalism and language, and have code support to see the obvious, realistic indications of origins in someone's speech.  That's damn good.

[sjanimal]

I can assure you all that there is a point to what I'm trying to say, but It's too late at night for me to formulate a coherent argument.  Alas.  I'll try to write a couple of paragraphs that...hopefully can get enough of my point across that someone smarter or with more time on their hands can pick up the torch.  

Here is an example.  Take a wealthy scholar type character who might be under the employ of a noble House in Tuluk.  Such a person might be very well educated and might have spent much of his life in study, and around refined people with money.  

Let's say this fellow decides to have lunch with a graduate of the Atrium.  It seems likely to me that both of these persons might have the same sort of refined accents and speach patterns.  

Now take a road worker who works on the roads near Tuluk.  Most of the people he talks to and associates with are also Tuluk road workers.  I would suggest that roadworkers probably migrate back and forth between Tuluk and Allanak rather freely.  They probably go where the road contracts are.  If Red Storm decided to expand it's road system, they would probably go there as well.  Road workers from Tuluk or Allanak might have smiliar lifestyle, and probably speach patterns as well.

How about a more inner city accent, like a 'Rinth Rat.  Now here is an accent that very well might have it's own flavor.  Or maybe a southside Allanak accent.  

To this, how about heritage?  Would an inner city elven fellow have the same kind of family background as a human?  

And yet, the Tuluk scholar, the Tuluk road worker, the Tuluk farmer, the Tuluk noble, the Tuluk city rat and the Tuluk prostitue will all have the same accent, no matter how illogical this is.

And yet, the Allanak scholar, the Allanak road worker, the Allanak farmer, the Allanak noble, the Tuluk city rat and the Allanak prostitue will all have the same accent, no matter how illogical this is.

And yet, if you mixed the two groups, the oil and water would seperate, which is a completely illogical result.  

Let's think about it.  You can pick your race.  You can pick your class.  You can can pick your gender.  You can pick your height.  You can pick your weight.  You can pick your clothing and tattoos.  But for some reason, you're stuck with the accent the code picks for you, no matter how illogical?

My argument is that education, occupation, family and ethnicity will contribute more to accent than geography in a game area the size of Montana.  

You all are giving some valid arguments, no doubt about it, but your arguments:

--We'd have to change the code, which would be work

--Some people wouldn't roleplay their ethnicity otherwise

--Montana is a big state

Yes, changing the code would be hard work.  We would all reap the benefits.
Yes, some people wouldn't roleplay their ethnicity.  But we all shouldn't suffer cuz these noobs don't feel like roleplaying it.  

Regardless of your feelings on this, no doubt you can agree that hard coding anything will usually decrease roleplay expression, rather than creating it.  My argument stems from the idea that we should have greater opporunity for role-play, not less.

[Xamminy]

I don't think that our claim is that there should be -NO- accents.

But I think that some characters (linguists for example) should be able to modify their accents.

Okay, I never said there should be no accents...but the only way so that noone will know where you are from based off accent is to have none.

I also never said that I thought noone should be able to switch accents.  However, from what I understand, for anyone to be able to switch accents will take an overhaul of how accents work codewise.  (Mind that I do have some insight into this that you don't, sjanimal, but will not explain further.)

Also, has been said a couple times, using numerics (1, 2, 3, 4) in speech DOES bypass language code, just like emoting speech.  Don't do it, please?  Also, as I said, numerics aren't words.  Also, as Bestatte hinted at, there are different ways to say, "300."  Three hundreds, six piles of fifty, three small...etc.  Be creative, as we are working to create a story here, and creativity is part of that.

Back to accents, though, yes, I think it'd be great to learn accents and switch between them...I don't think the work necessary is worth it right now when we have plenty of other things that really do need work, whereas accent code doesn't really need it, just could use it to make it better.

[Maybe42or54]

Instead of Montana, Let's compare Zalanthas to something much smaller.
Something more along the lines of Germany during the Germanic Wars.
Now, During those wars, where the different tribes were at war. Hypothetically, you could go from tribe to tribe, even though they all spoke germanic, and not understand what they were saying.

[Linedel]

Also, as Bestatte hinted at, there are different ways to say, "300." Three hundreds, six piles of fifty, three small...etc. Be creative, as we are working to create a story here, and creativity is part of that.

While possibly a method of avoiding "going around the code," it isn't very good roleplaying to do business using a system that isn't canonical.  (Meaning "Three hundred" and "300" (being the same) would be "realistic," but "six piles of fifty" would almost never be "realistic." *)

Numbers are typically used for business transactions.  You don't make up stupid.. er.. creative ways to say what you're trading.  You use simple things that won't be mis-understood so you don't get a dagger through the lung later.  (edit:  stupid meaning stupid to use in trade with angry people, not that Xamminy's example was stupid.)

IF using numbers is considered "going around the code";  it should probably be changed to use some intelligent scrambling of numbers that takes into account that pretty much everyone in Tuluk of lower middle class or lower would have a pretty good chance of knowing numbers in every tribal language and maybe a couple others due to the cities' "diversity".

It could even be argued that many Tulukis should start with 5-10 skill in those same languages.  (Or leaving their actual skill at 0, but having a check that prints it to them as if their skill were 5-10, such that it doesn't improve immediately...)

Kind of like Los Angeles.  Everyone here knows a little Spanish...


One could also point out that the "list" and "offer" commands use numbers.  Someone that doesn't speak sirihish can go into any shop and type "list."  (If this is inaccurate, slap me around.)  If the code is god (and I don't believe it is), then it does not support any argument for removing numbers because of this.

Note also that shop interaction commands are an abstraction.  You are NOT asking the merchant to tell you everything that he has, and the price of it.  You're using those commands OOC to get an idea what is in the shop, such that you can make an informed decision as to what would catch your character's eye and actually ask the shopkeeper about.  One could easily argue that seeing numbers in say/tell is the same - you could make a judgement call OOC as to whether your character has enough familiarity with the language/accent to understand it.



* My comment above refers to obsidian.  For common trade commodities, it might be a GoodThing(TM) to define weird units for these; "piles" is a poor choice.  See the English system of units for examples.  Searching the internet found:

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units

perfect example, varying by item:

bag [2]
an old English unit of weight, varying with the contents of the bag but generally in the range of 2-4 hundredweight (100-200 kilograms).



And while digging up the above (mostly due to the variance in the "bag" unit)... I realized a non negligible part of the number problem is due to OOC reckoning.  (It always comes down to players... people pointing fingers at code aside.)  IC, characters would recognize potential inaccuracies in raw materials as something that occurs.  In fact, they'd rarely notice them consciously.  If you received a bushel of whatnots, which is a bag of a certain size filled with whatnots, you'd receive a bushel of whatnots.  In-game, this may be 47 items that fill a large grey sack.  When the player removes these from the sack, he may count them OOC.  Knowing OOC that the sack object carries 47, when he receives 46 he will know he had a short amount.  Some players will realize OOC that the code is limited... many won't.  Many now bring that knowledge that the bag object carries 47 whatnots IC, and go after the supplier.

Seems to me to fix this OOC/IC crossover, that the atomic age precision of construction of every item in the game should be removed.  A solution to this is trivial code-wise, add a random 10-20% variance to the capacity of every "common" container object at object creation.  This eliminates the ability for players to metagame fixed object capacities.  (And adds the ability to metagame using small bags!)



I'm not sure what my point is.. I think I'm just cluttering the discussion space with details nobody wants to consider to support that I think the code is fine for both the accent and numbers issues, because "realism" requires far more depth of analysis than anyone here is posting, and whatever is decided, it will still be broken in some aspect...   Making good OOC decisions as to what your character failed to comprehend always trumps code.

Let the code guys work on stuff that actually impacts more than 3 people a year...


Since their players are consciously determining how to interpret everything they see, half-giants may be the only characters roleplaying numbers correctly!

[Xamminy]

Linedel, do you speak in numbers...or do you speak in words?  When you speak, are you saying, 'two,' or '2?'

[Bestatte]

Actually, when I say the word represented by the symbol 2, I say something that isn't pronounced with a "w" in the middle. It's just that odd quirky English language that sticks that w in there. I think that's a bit picky really, because numbers -and- letters are both symbols to represent other things, and each are used in text to get a message across.

As I said previously, I don't like seeing numbers in speech on text games, but I don't make an issue of it because it's just a personal thing for me, because I like reading the game text as though I was reading a novel. And in novels, characters aren't presented as using the numeric symbol when they speak about numbers.

[Angela Christine]

Two, Too, 2 and To are all pronounced exactly the same way.  Two and 2 have exactly the same meaning, and are pronounced the same way.  Sometimes I use the numeric symbol rather than the alphabetical symbol, not to get around the language code (does anyone actually do that?) but because I often forget how to spell eight, forty and several other irksome words.  If there was a way to write luietenant without spelling I'd use that too, that one trips me up all the time.  Unfortunately people disaprove of contractions too, and assume Lt. is being pronounced ell-tee, which is absurd.  

Death to standardized spelling!


Angela Christine.

[Linedel]

Linedel, do you speak in numbers...or do you speak in words? When you speak, are you saying, 'two,' or '2?'

Neither.  I make the T variant of the T/D sound, at the beginning of a vowel that in this century happens to be in a certain part of my throat.  (the English vowels, in every word, have shifted several times.)

What does "two" represent, anyways?  and when?

It's all a representation of something.  When Zalanthian people say the number that in their language that represents the quanity '2', how do we know they aren't actually saying fhqwhgadshg?
 
The real issue is whether this representation of the incredibly complex concept of language comprehension is more accurately represented by allowing or disallowing digits.

It would require an incredible amount of effort to write decent language code.  The current system is a complete joke, really...  (edit: joke with respect to languages.  it's perfect for the game.)   If you took all the development time spent on Armageddon's code, and put all that time into doing some sort of language comprehension system, you MIGHT have a halfass version.  There's a reason babelfish/google/whoever blows at it - 'cause its hard.  (And that's just a translator.. before you can do decent guesses at how much was understood, you have to be able to translate.)

In my opinion, any time spent "improving" language code will basically be wasted.  It will never be good enough to prevent metagaming, which is what this thread is really about, for both the original and spawned issues.

The solution to metagaming: sic Halaster on the people that do it.


( fhqwhatever: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail9.html )

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Probably an uninformed and silly question.. I've heard of powergaming, but what is 'metagaming'?

[SanityAssassin]

It would probably take more time and effort than it is worth to overhaul the current language system.  I can see a small tweak here and there, but major effort is better spent on other projects.  

I find it incredibly annoying to see numbers instead of words used to express numeric values in conversational text.  

I find it personally jarring. It just looks awkward to me, and "feels" wrong so I won't ever do it. I tried looking in novels for characters talking about costs of things, or sizes, or other numeric expressions. I found many, and none of them used the numeric symbols in their text-created speech.

I couldn't have put it better myself, although I probably find it more aggravating than Bestatte does.  

While we are on the subject of language, acronyms and abbreviations are also inappropriate for most fantasy settings.  Writing Sgt. instead of Sergeant to save yourself two seconds in a role playing conversation is lazy.  It looks extremely modern and is pretty jarring to the person on the other side.  It is only a small step from swapping 'u' for 'you' in conversations or using modern slang.  I'd rather see something misspelled than abbreviated.  Acronyms, to be blunt, have no place in Armageddon whatsoever.

I understand that many players do not have English as their native tongue.  That is why I don't get too upset at minor spelling/grammar errors in conversations.

[SanityAssassin]

Metagaming is basically using knowledge that your player couldn't possibly know.  Included are actions that have no roleplaying logic or value yet give some benefit to your character- I think the common term for this is 'powergaming'.  

A certain amount of metagaming is to be expected.  It is impossible to eliminate and relatively harmless in small doses.  For example, everyone metagames to a certain extent when character building.  The bad thing is that outrageous metagaming can be very disruptive to roleplaying games.  I am pretty sure the Armageddon staff frown on metagaming.

Some examples:

•   A unique weapon, the Bonesword of Trogdor-Slaying, spawns in a certain cave every reboot.  After every reboot you immediately log on and rush to the cave, claiming the sword before anyone else does.

•   A friend asks you via AIM for help bringing down a rival.  The two of you concoct a plan OOC to PK the rival.  You monitor when he logs onto the Armageddon Boards and AIM to find a good time for a PK.  

•   Robotically performing skills for IC days without rest with the sole purpose of "raising stats".

I think you get the idea.  At best, it's cheesy.  At worst, it can ruin an entire game (particularly when PK is involved).  Most bad tabletop games are that way because of excessive metagaming, and I am inclined to say the same goes for MUDs.

[SanityAssassin]

Please erase this post.

[Bestatte]

There's another RPI I tried for awhile, that did something interesting with their language system. The game is also a modified DIKU and shares many similarities to ours, though the genre is completely different.

If I remember right, learning the language would gradually let you understand certain words, so for instance, of the course of a week, you would -always- recognize the word "the" when spoken by someone speaking that other language. Then a day later you'd recognize "to" and "animal" and "yes sir" etc. etc. etc.

There were a few things about that game that really grabbed my attention, such as that and actual injuries when you get hurt...injuries that needed to be treated or you'd lose a limb to infection, etc. etc. etc...the language thing was another that stood out in my mind.

I still like Arm better, but if the Arm staff was to ever wipe the language system and rewrite, something like that would be pretty neat to see here.

Personally I don't mind it the way it is, it does what it's intended to do, and does it just fine.

[Linedel]

Powergaming is not quite the same as metagaming

Metagaming is taking actions based on OOC knowledge of rules or implementation of the game.  Armageddon lingo generally calls this twinking... but twink has a different meaning in basically every community it is used in (interesting tie-in to the accent part of the thread, where virtual communities do tend to create a minor sub-language), so I don't like using the term.  (In Nettrek, twink meant a clueless newbie.  In EverQuest, twink refers to a low level character given powerful equipment so he can level quickly (powerlevel).  In Armageddon, it seems to mean metagaming.)

Powergaming is taking actions intended to have your character be as powerful as possible.  Most powergaming uses metagaming to gain the most effect, but some small portion of powergaming is outside that, and "could" be somewhat IC.  (Though creating a character for which powergaming is "IC" is probably frowned upon..)

Choosing to "flee west" rather than "flee north" because you know that standard Gamma Diku tracking code derived from the tracking code SillyMUD released a decade ago generally searches direction 0 (north) before direction 3 (west), and thus giving your character a better chance to survive than your partner, who just typed "flee" is a good example of metagaming that wouldn't really be powergaming, but is likely something you shouldn't do.  (I almost guarantee Armageddon doesn't use that code... the game actually runs with plenty of mobs that use track... un-necessary malloc calls aren't good in that environment.)


To the word replacing code Bestatte mentioned - this would only make the metagaming worse.  You'd only have to guess half the words OOC to figure out the sentence :)   (It also adds the ability for players to occasionally typo key words if they happen to know someone is listening... which the replacement code would now miss.)

[Xamminy]

Okay, this is starting to go more and more off topic, but to explain my position on the first derailed portion...

My point was, you speak in words.  '2' is not a word, but 'two' is.  Yes, '2' and 'two' mean the same thing, but only on a simple level.  Truly, '2' does not represent the word 'two,' but the word 'two' represents the numeric '2.'  The word describes something else, in this case the numeric, which can then describe or quantify a third thing.  The reverse is not the same.  Taken to the extreme, it would mean that I could throw a cow at someone instead of saying the word 'cow' and the meaning would be the same.

Yes, I know that this is a very fine point of language study and philosophy, but it is something I think bears saying.

As far as code goes, typing the numeric instead of the word that represents the numeric does bypass language code.  Granted, anyone that wants to do this, since all they are getting across is numbers, can feel free, but know that by doing so you are letting people have some insight into your conversation that should not have such insight.  Personally, I'd rather keep the poor saps that don't speak the language I am as muc in the dark as possible.

Now, back on topic...

Yes, you pick up a bit of the accent of your teacher, but your accent still shows through predominantly.  If nothing else, for the suggested idea to be realistic, it would have to show something more like...

The dirty-blond haired, scruffy man says in northern-accented sirihish with a slight rinthi accent:
"Screw this!"

I really don't think putting that much effort into the language code is necessary and am fine where it is at the moment.

[Angela Christine]

While we are on the subject of language, acronyms and abbreviations are also inappropriate for most fantasy settings.  Writing Sgt. instead of Sergeant to save yourself two seconds in a role playing conversation is lazy.  It looks extremely modern and is pretty jarring to the person on the other side.  It is only a small step from swapping 'u' for 'you' in conversations or using modern slang.  I'd rather see something misspelled than abbreviated.  

Yeah, lets get rid of contractions too.  Swapping "can't" for "can not" is only a small step from swapping "u" for "you".  :roll:


Angela Christine

[Anonymous]

Yeah, lets get rid of contractions too.  Swapping "can't" for "can not" is only a small step from swapping "u" for "you".

Can't is to Cannot as Sarge is to Sergeant.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

When I lived in California, you could tell where a cat was from in the state generally by listening to how he spoke. Folks from up North tended to use less slang, while folks from the middle of the state practically invented their own sub-english language, and the homies from down South used plenty slang but were not so colorful and essentric.

The accents code is good, and I have little problem with it. Remember, after all, Tuluk was created or drawn together, whatever, by a Northern barabarian. Apparently the culture was different enough even back then for the line to be drawn, since a barabarian is only called such by those who feel that their culture is more superior.