The use of OOC

[Xygax]

I've been seeing significantly more frequent use of the OOC command in-game lately.  More likely than not, if you're not using it to indicate a need to logout or go idle for a moment, or else relay RL times for in-game meetings, or something along those lines, you're probably using it wrong.

Here are some things NOT to do with OOC:

ooc DUde, give me some fucking time to emote would ya?

This one was taken directly from the game.

ooc Stop using OOC

At least this is short, but you're only contributing to the problem here.  If a scene has been ruined, I'd rather see you leave than contribute to the OOCing.

ooc You shouldn't do that, you're not playing right!

This one I am paraphrasing, but a LOT of people seem to be taking it upon themselves to function as the RP police.  This isn't your job (it's not really the staff's job either, but we have better avenues for communicating with other players than you do, and less jarring ones).  If someone's RP is wildly inappropriate, wish up (ie. if they're doing things like ":pops a cap in yo' ass!"), if it's more subtly inappopriate (ie. not hating your magicker enough), e-mail the MUD.  Neither of these situations are problems for which you should break character.

The OOC helpfile explains the use of the command brilliantly; I encourage you to read it.  Here's my favorite part:

Try to use the ooc command as little as possible, preferably never.   Imagine what a movie would be like if the actors and actresses kept breaking out of their roles all the time--the movie would be awful.

Overuse and misuse of the OOC command is -worse- than being the "Elf riding the kank."  Don't do it.

Thanks,
 Xygax

[Anonymous]

This is the one who said, "Stop the OOC."

You say it contributed to the problem, but it all stopped after that was said.  So you can say it contributed.  I say it stopped an argument that was going to happen on the ooc channel, heh.

Just a difference of opinion, and wanted to express it.

[Xygax]

This is the one who said, "Stop the OOC."

You say it contributed to the problem, but it all stopped after that was said.  So you can say it contributed.  I say it stopped an argument that was going to happen on the ooc channel, heh.

Just a difference of opinion, and wanted to express it.

My opinion is that it stopped because I also spoke directly with each of the other players.  This isn't really my point, though.  My point is:  use the command as little as possible.  I used your particular quote as an example of what I consider an inappropriate use because it -is-, regardless of whether or not it eventually caused the OOCing to stop or not.

[Mar]

I believe there are situations when "OOC Please, stop OOCing." is a good thing. Like when a newbie keeps explaining why he did such IC action via OOC over and over. He won't stop till you tell him to stop. *shrug*

[Fnord]

I believe there are situations when "OOC Please, stop OOCing." is a good thing. Like when a newbie keeps explaining why he did such IC action via OOC over and over. He won't stop till you tell him to stop. *shrug*

I believe Xygax's point is that it's better to first try and wish up and let the imms use their discrete methods of communication to remedy the situation.

This is my own opinion... You might be right if all else fails, such as if no imm responds and the problem persists, but try other options first before potentially adding to the problem.

(I'm lucky enough to never have really run into any annoying OOC problems, knock on baobab.)

[Anonymous]

Telling someone to knock off the OOC will probably result in them not using the OOC command but it also presents the possibility of unnecessary strain between players if the way people ask for the OOC to be stopped is received as being snide.

Wish up.

[My 2 sids]

Telling someone to knock off the OOC will probably result in them not using the OOC command but it also presents the possibility of unnecessary strain between players if the way people ask for the OOC to be stopped is received as being snide.

Wish up.

Agreed.  Players shouldn't be put into a possession of judging each other's role-play.  By saying when an appropriate time and use of the OOC command is, that is just what happens.  Better, to let the Imms make that choice of weather or not some player is being realistic for the game.

[sarahjc]

I've been frequenting the OOC usage spot as of late, but all I thought were valid uses of OOC. Also, we have a lot of new people lately, so I think you are going to see a hike in OOC usage for things such as guidance.

Nobody has ever said to me, that is not what OOC is used for, so I think I am in the clear.


And yeah, I have to side with Xygax on the "OOC Stop using OOC please" thing. It's like those people in the movies that say "shush"  the people who are saying Shush, it's just making more noise. Wish up.

In answer to Mar, Your situation seems very annoying. It's best at that point to ask for Imm. Any player that starts saying "OOC It was a mistake, I thought I was doning this" Over and Over.  You need to wish up and have the Imms squash that. If anything, just to prove the point that it's not IC exceptable.

[Mar]

Right right...
Wish up...
No reponse...
Wish up...
No response...
think Damn off-peak hours.
OOC Please, stop OOCing, it's really distracting me from playing.

[sarahjc]

The in that case after a few minutes and you aren't getting response. OOC your little heart out and write up a little note to the mud afterwards with a log of the incident.

The reason why I say that it's best to see if a staff member is on is because of the fact that it is a newbie, and it may take staff to explain that it's completely inappropriate.

[Cuusardo]

I've seen people use OOC for some pretty rediculous things myself  (ooc y'all need new sdescs!  *cringe*)

Anyway, I try not to use it much myself unless someone obviously needs OOC help.  If they need more help than one or two OOC says will cover, I tell them to contact a helper.

My beef: People who don't use the OOC command when they should, instead tacking OOC on to a say, or a talk at a table, or a whisper.  The occasional whisper I can understand, because some OOC things probably should not be heard by the entire room, but always using it in says or talking at a table is just rediculous.

[wizturbo]

Right right...
Wish up...
No reponse...
Wish up...
No response...
think Damn off-peak hours.
OOC Please, stop OOCing, it's really distracting me from playing.

You act like this is common...in my experiences, even in the most odd-ball hours there is almost always an imm around.  What I often find as unsettling for myself, is i'll wish up, and I won't know if an immortal is handling it or not because they don't reply to me.  So i'll wish up, wait a while, and figure no one is online, when really an immortal is working on the problem and I just didn't know about it.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Practicing necromancy @ resurrects this thread because some of this stuff is happening.

[Jozhole]

I would love it if there was an option to turn ooc's off. It can be very hard to stay immersed around certain players. 

[Adhira]

If you notice excessive use of OOC please feel free to put in a report so that we can investigate it.  OOC should only be used in extreme circumstances or at least when absolutely necessary.

[Cind]

I've noticed a lot of OOC use whenever I start a new pc because people automatically assume I'm new, without my asking for help or guidance. No more, please. Except OOC mercy off, that's valid since so we have so many newbies.

[Erythil]

There are a lot more newbies lately, so probably a lot more questions that need to be asked.  Food for thought.

[slvrmoontiger]

I've noticed a lot of OOC use whenever I start a new pc because people automatically assume I'm new, without my asking for help or guidance. No more, please. Except OOC mercy off, that's valid since so we have so many newbies.

OOC: Mercy all is actually more valid I think.

[Desertman]

I don't mind if someone throws out an OOC to let me know they are having an OOC issue.

OOC: I have to go man. Sorry.

I never see anyone get "up in arms" about this. It doesn't bother me at all. All I have ever seen in response is, "OOC: No worries. Have a good night."

My biggest issue, and the one that REALLY rubs me the wrong way, is when people say things in character that are blatantly a way of communicating an OOC idea or concept and trying to make it IC.

For example, and this is the the worst one I can think of.

The so-and-so-man says in Sirihish, right before or during a fight, "If you need healing/help call out your name!"

I realize you are doing this to make up for the fact the text is rolling across the screen quickly, and you can't assess everyone in combat that might need help. In a big battle, you wouldn't be able to anyways, so it extremely realistic you WOULDN'T be able to assess everyone that needed help.

It is however directly taken from games like World of Warcraft, and in a realistic combat situation, people don't run around shouting their names while swinging their swords hoping someone runs in to heal/save them.

I stil have nightmares about one I saw a few years ago in a RPT. There were at least fifteen cases of this:

The so-and-so-man shouts while in the middle of a fight involving at least twenty pc's and multiple combat units, "Amos needs heals!"

I wish I could say that wasn't the exact wording. But it was. Multiple times. (Names changed to protect the innocent/shamed.)

Justify it however you want, we all know it is just a habit picked up from playing MMO's that is designed to improve response time/targeting during raids/PVP and it shouldn't be happening in an IC battle in Armageddon.

I have no problem with this though, because it doesn't look retarded, and actually makes sense:

The so-and-so-man shouts during combat, after taking a hard hit, "Uggh! This gith is eatin' me up fella's! Someone flank him and get him off me!"

That is fifteen thousand times better than:

The so-and-so-man shouts during combat, "AMOS! AMOS! AMOS!" (His own name.)

At the very least, if you are going to shout something so jarringly OOC intended to do nothing more than make your trigger keyword pop up on the screen, at least have the balls to OOC it, because you are anyways, you just aren't using the OOC command. Stop pretending it is IC.

We have a lot of newbies. At the very least I wish our IC leaders would stop directly telling them to do this before fights. I have seen it no less than twenty times. "Shout your name in combat if you need help." Please stop teaching our newbies to do that. It makes them think it is IC'ly acceptable to do something OOC in order to save your PC and make them better in combat. It isn't. They then go on to later teach other newbies to do it, and that isn't a good thing.

Just change it to, "If you need help out there just let me know fella's. I'm gonna' be running around offering support and what not during the fight."

It is basically the same thing, it just isn't directly out of World of Warcraft and it is a good IC example you are setting, instead of a horrible OOC example.

[Delirium]

When I ran a combat leader I had code words or gestures for various situations that people could call out. Brief and to the point in respect to fast-paced battle spam. Words for rescue, assist, retreat, mount up, etc. It worked really well.

[KankWhisperer]

I don't mind if someone throws out an OOC to let me know they are having an OOC issue.

OOC: I have to go man. Sorry.

I never see anyone get "up in arms" about this. It doesn't bother me at all. All I have ever seen in response is, "OOC: No worries. Have a good night."

My biggest issue, and the one that REALLY rubs me the wrong way, is when people say things in character that are blatantly a way of communicating an OOC idea or concept and trying to make it IC.

For example, and this is the the worst one I can think of.

The so-and-so-man says in Sirihish, right before or during a fight, "If you need healing/help call out your name!"

I realize you are doing this to make up for the fact the text is rolling across the screen quickly, and you can't assess everyone in combat that might need help. In a big battle, you wouldn't be able to anyways, so it extremely realistic you WOULDN'T be able to assess everyone that needed help.

It is however directly taken from games like World of Warcraft, and in a realistic combat situation, people don't run around shouting their names while swinging their swords hoping someone runs in to heal/save them.

I stil have nightmares about one I saw a few years ago in a RPT. There were at least fifteen cases of this:

The so-and-so-man shouts while in the middle of a fight involving at least twenty pc's and multiple combat units, "Amos needs heals!"

I wish I could say that wasn't the exact wording. But it was. Multiple times. (Names changed to protect the innocent/shamed.)

Justify it however you want, we all know it is just a habit picked up from playing MMO's that is designed to improve response time/targeting during raids/PVP and it shouldn't be happening in an IC battle in Armageddon.

I have no problem with this though, because it doesn't look retarded, and actually makes sense:

The so-and-so-man shouts during combat, after taking a hard hit, "Uggh! This gith is eatin' me up fella's! Someone flank him and get him off me!"

That is fifteen thousand times better than:

The so-and-so-man shouts during combat, "AMOS! AMOS! AMOS!" (His own name.)

At the very least, if you are going to shout something so jarringly OOC intended to do nothing more than make your trigger keyword pop up on the screen, at least have the balls to OOC it, because you are anyways, you just aren't using the OOC command. Stop pretending it is IC.

We have a lot of newbies. At the very least I wish our IC leaders would stop directly telling them to do this before fights. I have seen it no less than twenty times. "Shout your name in combat if you need help." Please stop teaching our newbies to do that. It makes them think it is IC'ly acceptable to do something OOC in order to save your PC and make them better in combat. It isn't. They then go on to later teach other newbies to do it, and that isn't a good thing.

Just change it to, "If you need help out there just let me know fella's. I'm gonna' be running around offering support and what not during the fight."

It is basically the same thing, it just isn't directly out of World of Warcraft and it is a good IC example you are setting, instead of a horrible OOC example.

Sorry but people have been doing the name call out way before WOW existed.

[LauraMars]

It's a text game - trying to interact in an IC manner during high-spam situations is VERY difficult, especially with multiple hooded figures and duplicated keywords everywhere.  In a real battle, there are many more identifiers that the human eye will recognize than the three words of your byn trooper's sdesc.  In a real battle, you'd instantly know your pal was hurt and rush to his assistance, whether he was one of a hundred guys in a black sandcloth longcloak or not.  I'm not going to blame someone for treating this game like a game, especially when you consider that new players are much more likely to be overwhelmed by the screen scroll than a seasoned vet who knows what to look for.

That said, I will agree that the name thing is a bit jarring, and that "code words" or signals like Delirium suggested would be just as effective at dealing with the constant spam while being less of a blatantly out of character code workaround.   It's a much more creative and exciting way to deal with the problem of our fast paced, diku-based combat code.  And it will make players feel like their characters are really learning something that is useful and practical, instead of screaming their name for a reason that doesn't make much "immersive" sense.

[KankWhisperer]

This is usually only an issue during larger battles and when you have ten short figures in the same cloak. One is dying but I can't tell who. Oh well, you die because I can't tell who you are because of cloaks' code. If someone says "Amos could use some help here!" I don't mind. I also don't mind if people tell other people to do it. For playability's sake.

[AreteX]

The so-and-so-man shouts during combat, "HODOR! HODOR! HODOR!"

This, however, is perfectly acceptable.

I always try to keep OOC to the essentials and I don't respond to OOC unless my response is required.  I have not seen some large increase in OOC though.

[Desertman]

When I ran a combat leader I had code words or gestures for various situations that people could call out. Brief and to the point in respect to fast-paced battle spam. Words for rescue, assist, retreat, mount up, etc. It worked really well.

Same here. I just did this thing where I actually trained the people under me for combat situations in an IC manner.

Crazy times. Guess that is a thing of the past.

[slvrmoontiger]

I hope I don't come off as too harsh on some new players. Sometimes they are asking questions OOC that can be asked ICly. When this happens I try to politely tell them OOC that the question can be asked ICly please do so and then I wait for them to ask the question ICly. I think I've gotten pretty good at this. If I know or realize someone is a new player I give them several help files OOC that they can read that should give them the general basics. Like try reading help faq, help emote, help tell and then any of the additional help files they refer to. I believe this is enough to get them started with the basics. All this can be done while they are playing so I'd rather do that than refer them to a URL that they have to multitask with. Are there any other help files that would be good for new players that are trying to get some command information that can be done while they are playing without need for multitasking?

[Harmless]

+1 to stylish OOC communication. I approve of everything desertman is outlining above.

However, in direct contrast, if doing something like Desertman makes an example of here is difficult for you to type in the middle of combat, then I am okay with you making aliases or macros to send the request out immediately. I won't mind the repetition, either, I promise.

[Desertman]

+1 to stylish OOC communication. I approve of everything desertman is outlining above.

However, in direct contrast, if doing something like Desertman makes an example of here is difficult for you to type in the middle of combat, then I am okay with you making aliases or macros to send the request out immediately. I won't mind the repetition, either, I promise.

Same here, I don't care if they have a macro for when they hit 30hp that shouts, "I'm gettin' my ass kicked! Someone help me here!".

I don't care if they use that exact line all of the time.

Just stop shouting your name repeatedly in an OOC manner that makes no IC sense because you don't want your toon to die. It just doesn't belong in Armageddon. Other games, a perfect fit. Not Armageddon.

[Maso]

I have not seen some large increase in OOC though.

[Potaje]

I don't agree here with Desertman on this point of it being ooc to yell out ones own name in combat when hurt.

It does not make sense to yell out some complicated long issuance of directions when your being struck down, in grave danger or otherwise life threatened and time and directness is paramount.

But that is not really my point, Yelling out your pc'a name, teaching others to do this is not ooc, its every bit of Ic. OOC would be something more along the lines: Amos is at 30 hp, help.

There is no need to try an dissuade new players into thinking that such a thing is ooc when its really just your view and opinion that its ooc and not a fact of being ooc.

I will continue to suggest they use their names in large groups as long as it is effective in keeping them alive.

The use of code words are fine but not more or less different than simply calling out ones name when in need of help.


Also the difference is that in large groups:
1.people have hoods up
2. when they don't have hoods up, you then have to seek out the identifiers in their description which wastes time, the difference of (I'm in trouble) and (Amos, is in trouble.) To allow those not familiar and perhaps those that might be to instantly know where along the line to move to assist.

Otherwise you could consider it like having to run down the line looking over everyone saying or looking over every one in wonder of Who is 'I' that needed help. Being to late.

[Desertman]

I don't agree here with Desertman on this point of it being ooc to yell out ones own name in combat when hurt.

It does not make sense to yell out some complicated long issuance of directions when your being struck down, in grave danger or otherwise life threatened and time and directness is paramount.

But that is not really my point, Yelling out your pc'a name, teaching others to do this is not ooc, its every bit of Ic. OOC would be something more along the lines: Amos is at 30 hp, help.

There is no need to try an dissuade new players into thinking that such a thing is ooc when its really just your view and opinion that its ooc and not a fact of being ooc.

I will continue to suggest they use their names in large groups as long as it is effective in keeping them alive.

The use of code words are fine but not more or less different than simply calling out ones name when in need of help.


Also the difference is that in large groups:
1.people have hoods up
2. when they don't have hoods up, you then have to seek out the identifiers in their description which wastes time, the difference of (I'm in trouble) and (Amos, is in trouble.) To allow those not familiar and perhaps those that might be to instantly know where along the line to move to assist.

Otherwise you could consider it like having to run down the line looking over everyone saying or looking over every one in wonder of Who is 'I' that needed help. Being to late.

You are yelling out your own name so that OOC'ly the person behind the keyboard of the healer/helper knows OOC'ly who they should rescue/heal.

I understand you are doing it so that you won't die and that your underlings won't die.

I sympathize with why you are doing it.

Not wanting to die isn't a reason to do something that is blatantly for OOC convenience and not IC'ly immersive/OOC'ly jarring. I didn't want to die, isn't a good excuse to go OOC. Make no mistake, you are doing something that is OOC, even if you aren't using the OOC command.  

I would rather see my own characters die before I start shouting out my own name in combat repeatedly so that OOC'ly someone knows to heal or rescue me from across the chaotic battlefield without fail.

Have you ever considered that if there are so many people involved in a fight that the screen is scrolling so fast that you can't decide who is who and who is where, that it might actually make IC sense for it to be that crazy?

Battle would be chaotic. With that many people engaged in furious melee, you aren't going to run across a battlefield to save someone who is shouting their name repeatedly.

Did you see Braveheart? You are much more concerned with the person you are fighting/the groups of people who are shoulder to shoulder around you that might hamstring you at any moment etc...

Not being able to respond to what is happening to everyone all over the battlefield without fail just because they are shouting their name/keyword is not only OOC'ly jarring, but IC'ly, it also doesn't make any sense if there are that many people in a fight to begin with.

The super fast screen scroll and confusion is actually pretty IC in my opinion and helps to more realistically reflect how hard it WOULD be to jump to someone's aid in the middle of a battle.

I didn't even see this problem ten years ago in Armageddon. We had some pretty large battles that I can remember. I was a leader in one of them at the time when Allanak was attacked.

This idea/concept didn't even exist in Armageddon until people got accustom to doing this in other online graphical games in recent years.

[Rhyden]

As always, I agree with Dman. Seems like an awkward cheap way of OOCly getting a heal. If you really need to get healed, lower your hood, separate yourself from combat, yell "Medic" or all three. Yelling your name seems silly imo.

[Desertman]

As always, I agree with Dman. Seems like an awkward cheap way of OOCly getting a heal. If you really need to get healed, lower your hood, separate yourself from combat, yell "Medic" or all three. Yelling your name seems silly imo.

But, but, you would be able to instantly jump to someone no matter where they are on a battlefield in the middle of a war because they are shouting their name repeatedly Rhyden. You would be able to do it with no confusion at all, to perfection. You must understand that shouting your name suddenly clears a battlefield of confusion. This is a fact known to babes in swaddling clothes. This is why warriors throughout history have been taught to shout their name repeatedly during battle. Just look it up. You can find multiple examples of this. It allowed thier comrades to instantly find them in a huge melee and made perfect sense.

You don't understand. That is how battle was. It isn't silly or an OOC concept that came about only in recent years due to it being common place to do this sort of thing in a non-RP environment at all.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I'm not really talking about noobs asking questions or trying to save your character during combat spam.  I agree there has not been an increase in ooc, but I have seen ooc communication by high karma players and leaders that was not only unnecessary, but also jarring.   People oocing play times in front of a large group, but speaking to an individual, talking about taking their dog to the vet and things of that nature, and telling ooc jokes.   I didn't file a player complaint because its wasn't and isn't someone my character normally sees and so maybe it was an isolated incident, but it didn't seem that way.  To me it seemed like an entire clan was over using ooc.  A little bit is fine sure, but it seemed excessive.  If I see it again I'll probably put in a pc.  

IMO OOC I have to go is inappropriate.  There are ic ways of dealing with it.  say (yawning) I'm tired, gonna get some rest.    say (sighing) Ugh, got gate duty for the rest of the week.  Not that I would put in a player complaint for this.  I understand sometimes you are in a hurry.  Its fine.  Sometimes there isn't a good way to say it icly especially if the other player questions you on it.

I don't see how its ooc to yell that you need help in combat.  I'll tell you whats ooc is worrying about how the code distributes water and wrecking rp for ooc reasons over a few virtual drinks.  Where Ic it doesn't make any sense.    I've experienced this on two occasions, one with the Byn and one with the AOD.  ITs kinda code abuse imo to do this let alone punish people ic for ooc things (NOT ME BTW).   Its not the end of the world I understand, but its unnecessary and takes away from the game.  If you drink from the cistern using an emote that you are using a virtual cup then you aren't drinking out of the cistern or keg or whatever.  You are using a cup.  

[Potaje]

I'm saying that I personally find that when it is not simply a matter of being able to stamp it oocly, simply because you see it that way. The game is not perfect. You can not set up actual battle lines and formations. You can not define where someone is on the battlefield.

So just about all thing, concerning battle and protection and strategy, could be stamped ooc.

I think the inclusion of a soldiers name is fine and just as icly as not. If one could protect the right flank or left flank and do so simply by calling out that command, then I might agree more.

But the whole dogma of this aspect being ooc is ridiculous to me.

If you want, once a name is called have others repeat, "Pull back sos and sos!" then you can spend your time emoting cutting your way towards them.

You might want to let your pc die or others around you, and that's fine, but then once your gone, I sure as drov would be teaching them different, because we may have to die at some point in game, but it does not have to be from being obtuse or inane over something as small as having a hang up on calling out your own name when in danger.

Shout "Help me, Potaje" Alerts all around that Potaje is the one in need, and I see no problem of ooc in that.

[Barzalene]

Desertman is right. And he's wrong!
In real life if a guy is screaming off to your left you have some sensory input to locate him not available in code. But this may be offset by the lack of real distance to close to get to the guy who is down.

[KankWhisperer]

And all through out history you couldn't tell who was next to you or not even though you knew them for years because they had a hood up and now you don't recognize them anymore. Nearly ALL ARM battles, your PC group is relatively small and close together. Pretending you are crossing a gigantic battlefield to rescue is disingenuous as an argument. And you are NOT noticing them get killed already, stimulating battle chaos. That's why they are calling for aid in the first place.

[Desertman]

They are using an OOC work around for a poorly performing construct.

I get why they are doing it.

It is still an OOC work around and still makes no IC sense, no matter the reasoning.

It is being done because OOC'ly, due to the game format, "It is hard to tell who is who in a battle."

I get that. We don't do OOC things in Armageddon. Even if it means we die.

[Potaje]

You say it is, I say its not.

We differ in opinion on the matter and are at an impasse. It's also a matter I don't feel deserves admonishment no matter what side of the argument you stand on.

And I do not believe it falls under the OOC restrictions. The day Staff says it does is the day I nod and stand aside on the point. 

[Desertman]

You say it is, I say its not.

We differ in opinion on the matter and are at an impasse. It's also a matter I don't feel deserves admonishment no matter what side of the argument you stand on.

And I do not believe it falls under the OOC restrictions. The day Staff says it does is the day I nod and stand aside on the point.  

I am of the opinion that the staff has already said you shouldn't do blatantly OOC things in game.

So I am of the opinion you should nod and stand aside.

The only reason this exists, is because OOC'ly, the game format is hard to follow in group battles.

There is no IC reason to do this. IC'ly, it is silly. It makes perfect OOC sense to do it, because the only reason you are doing it is to make up for the game platform limitations, that you outlined above as your reason for doing it.

Even if the OOC reason for doing something is the game limitations themselves, such as in this case, you still can't do OOC things in game and pretend they are IC.

The only reason we see this is because of an OOC issue with the game platform making group battles hard to follow. There is no IC reason.

[KankWhisperer]

You say it is, I say its not.

We differ in opinion on the matter and are at an impasse. It's also a matter I don't feel deserves admonishment no matter what side of the argument you stand on.

And I do not believe it falls under the OOC restrictions. The day Staff says it does is the day I nod and stand aside on the point. 

Agreed.

[Nyr]

The scale

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   never uses OOC                                                                                                                                                                                             chats with buddy over the Way using OOC
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           repeatedly uses OOC when it is unnecessary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


Maybe the OOCish stuff people yell out during combat spam is annoying, but I'd cut the players a bit of slack and try to (if I am in the position to do so) show them a more IC way to reflect that they are in need of assistance.  If I'm not in that position, I can ask staff to help.  Combat spam and newbies asking questions...there might be better ways to deal with the former and we can look into those.  The latter will always happen.

I've seen the following uses of OOC as a chat room:

oocing to display amusement at a situation  -- don't
oocing to make a joke about a situation -- don't
oocing about...celebrity gossip -- why?
oocing about pets -- no
oocing about how they are oocing too much  -- you don't say!
oocing habitually not just about the need to leave (i.e., quit out) but giving lots of detail -- borderline.  Better to take the tack of "if I am going to break someone's immersion by using OOC to let them know I have to go, I had best err on the side of brevity" than "if I'm going to break someone's immersion by using OOC, I'm already breaking their immersion, so let me just throw caution to the wind and load up the command window!"

That's just from the reboot on Monday morning until this week.  We've already handed out warnings in most of the above cases (and I haven't seen some of these examples since the warning), but it's here to serve as an example of what is too much, and what to cut back on.

[LauraMars]

Are there any other help files that would be good for new players that are trying to get some command information that can be done while they are playing without need for multitasking?

Sorry if you know this already, but please refer them to the helpers.  There's a big button for live help right on the main page of the website.  Someone is almost always there to answer questions in real time, and it's a way better solution than going over multiple helpfiles and links while in game.

[Desertman]

Maybe the OOCish stuff people yell out during combat spam is annoying, but I'd cut the players a bit of slack and try to (if I am in the position to do so) show them a more IC way to reflect that they are in need of assistance.  If I'm not in that position, I can ask staff to help.  Combat spam and newbies asking questions...there might be better ways to deal with the former and we can look into those.  The latter will always happen.

This is all I am asking. Instead of teaching them to do it. Teach them not to do it. Because they shouldn't be doing it.

Thank Jeebus. I rest my case and I can leave this thread alone now.  

[Potaje]

Maybe the OOCish stuff people yell out during combat spam is annoying, but I'd cut the players a bit of slack and try to (if I am in the position to do so) show them a more IC way to reflect that they are in need of assistance.  If I'm not in that position, I can ask staff to help.  Combat spam and newbies asking questions...there might be better ways to deal with the former and we can look into those.  The latter will always happen.

This is all I am asking. Instead of teaching them to do it. Teach them not to do it. Because they shouldn't be doing it.

Thank Jeebus. I rest my case and I can leave this thread alone now.  

Funny I don't see where it says in Nyr's comment that calling out ones name to draw attention to the person in need is ooc. He only stats that oocish stuff might be annoying.

But in his list of ooc things does not list icly calling out for help as an ooc construct.

I too rest my case.

[KankWhisperer]

If I am in a combat oriented clan that REQUIRES hoods up, I'm still going to order them to call out something that includes their names. Otherwise it's pointless if they are the same relative height/ weight. "Amos needs help!" seems fine to me. If they disagree, then that's fine if they die for what I consider OOC reasons. IC reasons being panic, being too proud, or taking a brutal hit to the neck. Mostly because it's impossible to see who "I" is in "I need help!"

To me there is not a huge gulf between "Amos needs help!" and "I need help!".

[slvrmoontiger]

Are there any other help files that would be good for new players that are trying to get some command information that can be done while they are playing without need for multitasking?

Sorry if you know this already, but please refer them to the helpers.  There's a big button for live help right on the main page of the website.  Someone is almost always there to answer questions in real time, and it's a way better solution than going over multiple helpfiles and links while in game.

I'm quite aware of the link and have used it myself before. But that will suspend game stuff and a lot of people. I know myself for one would like to be able to actively play the game instead of logging out trying to figure out whats in the game so I can explain it to the helper and switch back and forth. It could get someone who is new more confused than help. I will do this from now on though if that's going to be the recommendation.

[Desertman]

Maybe the OOCish stuff people yell out during combat spam is annoying, but I'd cut the players a bit of slack and try to (if I am in the position to do so) show them a more IC way to reflect that they are in need of assistance.  If I'm not in that position, I can ask staff to help.  Combat spam and newbies asking questions...there might be better ways to deal with the former and we can look into those.  The latter will always happen.

This is all I am asking. Instead of teaching them to do it. Teach them not to do it. Because they shouldn't be doing it.

Thank Jeebus. I rest my case and I can leave this thread alone now.  

Funny I don't see where it says in Nyr's comment that calling out ones name to draw attention to the person in need is ooc. He only stats that oocish stuff might be annoying.

That is the only thing referenced in regards to combat and ooc'ish stuff in the entire thread.

That is obviously what he is talking about.

Now you are just trolling, and/or unable to admit when you are wrong.

[KankWhisperer]

Give some of these superior IC examples.

[Cutthroat]

Are there any other help files that would be good for new players that are trying to get some command information that can be done while they are playing without need for multitasking?

Sorry if you know this already, but please refer them to the helpers.  There's a big button for live help right on the main page of the website.  Someone is almost always there to answer questions in real time, and it's a way better solution than going over multiple helpfiles and links while in game.

I'm quite aware of the link and have used it myself before. But that will suspend game stuff and a lot of people. I know myself for one would like to be able to actively play the game instead of logging out trying to figure out whats in the game so I can explain it to the helper and switch back and forth. It could get someone who is new more confused than help. I will do this from now on though if that's going to be the recommendation.

It's definitely more fun to jump into a game and improvise and learn how to play along the way. But Armageddon is really hard to play that way. There are no pop-up hints and tips like in modern games. Only the documentation, the help files, and helpers. The best thing you can do besides pointing them to the Helpers is to point them to the Intro section of the website. The Intro section has the Helper button plus a whole guide on everything from creating a character to your first steps one in-game to links to additional documentation. One really cannot play this game effectively without a copious amount of reading beforehand.

[Delirium]

If I am in a combat oriented clan that REQUIRES hoods up, I'm still going to order them to call out something that includes their names. Otherwise it's pointless if they are the same relative height/ weight. "Amos needs help!" seems fine to me. If they disagree, then that's fine if they die for what I consider OOC reasons. IC reasons being panic, being too proud, or taking a brutal hit to the neck. Mostly because it's impossible to see who "I" is in "I need help!"

To me there is not a huge gulf between "Amos needs help!" and "I need help!".

A couple of more (IMO) elegant examples:

"On Shatuka!" <-- Shatuka needs rescuing
"Pull back!" <-- flee and regroup in a predetermined direction

[Lizzie]

If I am in a combat oriented clan that REQUIRES hoods up, I'm still going to order them to call out something that includes their names. Otherwise it's pointless if they are the same relative height/ weight. "Amos needs help!" seems fine to me. If they disagree, then that's fine if they die for what I consider OOC reasons. IC reasons being panic, being too proud, or taking a brutal hit to the neck. Mostly because it's impossible to see who "I" is in "I need help!"

To me there is not a huge gulf between "Amos needs help!" and "I need help!".

A couple of more (IMO) elegant examples:

"On Shatuka!" <-- Shatuka needs rescuing
"Pull back!" <-- flee and regroup in a predetermined direction

This is what I've always done in a clan-combat-based situation (with similar wording, obviously not using Sha as the example). However, Desertman is saying that if Shatuka needs rescuing, Shatuka should not be permitted to say "On Shatuka." She should leave it to someone else to say it on her behalf. I disagree with that. I was in Kurac right after Sha's reign, and we were taught *very specifically* to name ourselves out in the field, if and when we needed help. Of course at the time, we were also required to keep our hoods up until an actual attack - and by then, it was sometimes too late to take our hoods down and THEN say "On <whoever.>" and so, calling out your name was always part of the routine. It's basically the text-version of saying "Hey over here!" because as the rescuer, in a text game, I don't know where "here" is. I can't hear someone's voice to recognize it, and I can't necessarily see over a pair of critters duking it out with my sergeant who it is who needs help. But if I hear someone say, "On Shatuka!" I'll know to seek out Shatuka, *regardless of who called for her help* and assist her.

It was IC, it was OOC, it was totally appropriate and expected. I see no reason for that to be different now, years later.

[slvrmoontiger]

Are there any other help files that would be good for new players that are trying to get some command information that can be done while they are playing without need for multitasking?

Sorry if you know this already, but please refer them to the helpers.  There's a big button for live help right on the main page of the website.  Someone is almost always there to answer questions in real time, and it's a way better solution than going over multiple helpfiles and links while in game.

I'm quite aware of the link and have used it myself before. But that will suspend game stuff and a lot of people. I know myself for one would like to be able to actively play the game instead of logging out trying to figure out whats in the game so I can explain it to the helper and switch back and forth. It could get someone who is new more confused than help. I will do this from now on though if that's going to be the recommendation.

It's definitely more fun to jump into a game and improvise and learn how to play along the way. But Armageddon is really hard to play that way. There are no pop-up hints and tips like in modern games. Only the documentation, the help files, and helpers. The best thing you can do besides pointing them to the Helpers is to point them to the Intro section of the website. The Intro section has the Helper button plus a whole guide on everything from creating a character to your first steps one in-game to links to additional documentation. One really cannot play this game effectively without a copious amount of reading beforehand.

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for new accounts that get created and new characters an email be sent stating something along the lines of the reading involved in order to play. Put in the email something like reply back to this email after you have read and provide the links. The post in there that help isn't available while in game and post consequences for OOCing for help that they should have already read about. This should all be crystal clear to them to stop from everything going on. I'm sure a lot of people won't want to play that at all but this all needs a reply before a character is approved for new players. I think it will prevent some new players leaving.

[Twilight]

Ahh, but then you avoid the fun of the half giant rescuing the gith instead of a comrade, simply because you are all just tiny.

It would be nice to be able to "rescue from gith" or "rescue anyone gith" rather than even having to know who you are rescuing.

[BleakOne]

I don't have a problem with calling out your name in combat. "Help! Amos is in trouble!" Is absolutely fine ICly for me. Much better than someone shouting out a drawn out and detailed description of what's going on as a gith is killing them. I mean, if gith were hacking you to bits would you really be able to shout out tactical advice about flanking them?

A shrill scream for help seems much more applicable.

Using your name is just a way to make up for the fact that we don't have the obvious cues of where the shouting is coming from, which would usually be quite obvious to those nearby. I'm sorry if someone calling out for help and using their name ruins your game, but it's entirely acceptable from my point of view and I think those with a problem with it should be the change.

As for the use of OOC to help newbies, it's better to use IC when you can, but sometimes you can't.

[LauraMars]

It's definitely more fun to jump into a game and improvise and learn how to play along the way. But Armageddon is really hard to play that way. There are no pop-up hints and tips like in modern games. Only the documentation, the help files, and helpers. The best thing you can do besides pointing them to the Helpers is to point them to the Intro section of the website. The Intro section has the Helper button plus a whole guide on everything from creating a character to your first steps one in-game to links to additional documentation. One really cannot play this game effectively without a copious amount of reading beforehand.

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for new accounts that get created and new characters an email be sent stating something along the lines of the reading involved in order to play. Put in the email something like reply back to this email after you have read and provide the links. The post in there that help isn't available while in game and post consequences for OOCing for help that they should have already read about. This should all be crystal clear to them to stop from everything going on. I'm sure a lot of people won't want to play that at all but this all needs a reply before a character is approved for new players. I think it will prevent some new players leaving.

This is confusing, but I think you're saying that new players should be required to submit a report to the staff, prior to character approval, that they have read documentation?  If that is indeed what you're saying, I don't think it's necessary.  And help is available in game.  Every helpfile on the website is also coded into the game.  It can be accessed by typing >help

[RogueGunslinger]

I disagree with Desertman that it's bad, but I agree that it is OOC to an extent. We constantly have to circumvent OOC constructs with OOC methods. An Sdesc and a name are all we have to identify someone in the game and both of these are OOC tools we use to establish who is who. I really don't see how it's immersion breaking for someone to yell "HELP AMOS" when every single time you look at the screen you're bombarded with a million OOC constructs which you use to interpret how things are happening ICly.


You know WHY people do it. You're just expecting them to put their character in danger for the sake of your immersion. To which I say: Nope, not going to happen. Maybe you should level up your immersion stat a little bit.

[Maso]

You know WHY people do it. You're just expecting them to put their character in danger for the sake of your immersion. To which I say: Nope, not going to happen. Maybe you should level up your immersion stat a little bit.

+1, and I don't like to agree with RGS.

[Zoltan]

You know WHY people do it. You're just expecting them to put their character in danger for the sake of your immersion. To which I say: Nope, not going to happen. Maybe you should level up your immersion stat a little bit.

+1, and I don't like to agree with RGS.

Yoda sez: "Fear leads to ooc behavior, ooc behavior leads to cheese, cheese leads to twinkery."

I think that's what dman is getting at as well. Your character can often be in danger, it doesn't mean you should act oocly about it all. Never mind tweaking someone's precious immersionz--it's in the rules of the game.

I see the merits to both sides, though in my ideal Arm universe, I definitely lean more toward dman's reasoning. I understand why it's done, and I'm 99% sure I've even participated in that sort of thing in the past. It's something that makes sense on a playability level. Basically, I just leave it all up to the discretion of leader PCs at any given time and roll with it, particularly if my PC at the time happens to a be a good little minion. I don't fault people for going their own way on it, it's just my opinion.

[FantasyWriter]

Ahh, but then you avoid the fun of the half giant rescuing the gith instead of a comrade, simply because you are all just tiny.

It would be nice to be able to "rescue from gith" or "rescue anyone gith" rather than even having to know who you are rescuing.

Something along this line would be very helpful. I always prefer single word commands though, especually for those used in high adrenaline situations. Perhaps:
>engage gith (attempts to rescue target of 1.gith still using skill_rescue)

[slvrmoontiger]

It's definitely more fun to jump into a game and improvise and learn how to play along the way. But Armageddon is really hard to play that way. There are no pop-up hints and tips like in modern games. Only the documentation, the help files, and helpers. The best thing you can do besides pointing them to the Helpers is to point them to the Intro section of the website. The Intro section has the Helper button plus a whole guide on everything from creating a character to your first steps one in-game to links to additional documentation. One really cannot play this game effectively without a copious amount of reading beforehand.

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for new accounts that get created and new characters an email be sent stating something along the lines of the reading involved in order to play. Put in the email something like reply back to this email after you have read and provide the links. The post in there that help isn't available while in game and post consequences for OOCing for help that they should have already read about. This should all be crystal clear to them to stop from everything going on. I'm sure a lot of people won't want to play that at all but this all needs a reply before a character is approved for new players. I think it will prevent some new players leaving.

This is confusing, but I think you're saying that new players should be required to submit a report to the staff, prior to character approval, that they have read documentation?  If that is indeed what you're saying, I don't think it's necessary.  And help is available in game.  Every helpfile on the website is also coded into the game.  It can be accessed by typing >help

Sorry it was confusing. I should not multitask forums and Arm at the same time sometimes.

What I am saying is it should be clearly defined that OOC requests for basic help (that should be read before playing) are not aloud. Players should be told to submit a Player Complaint of any new players doing this, or just ignore them.

This was just in response to someone saying that The basic information should be read prior to playing. I fully agree with this. Heck I re-read through a lot of documentation when I came back from a 5 year absence just to re-familiarize myself. Lots of players think they can just jump in and start playing especially if they've played other MUDs before. Arm is not just another MUD though and that's what makes it the BEST MUD there is.

[LauraMars]

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for new accounts that get created and new characters an email be sent stating something along the lines of the reading involved in order to play. Put in the email something like reply back to this email after you have read and provide the links. The post in there that help isn't available while in game and post consequences for OOCing for help that they should have already read about. This should all be crystal clear to them to stop from everything going on. I'm sure a lot of people won't want to play that at all but this all needs a reply before a character is approved for new players. I think it will prevent some new players leaving.

This is confusing, but I think you're saying that new players should be required to submit a report to the staff, prior to character approval, that they have read documentation?  If that is indeed what you're saying, I don't think it's necessary.  And help is available in game.  Every helpfile on the website is also coded into the game.  It can be accessed by typing >help

Sorry it was confusing. I should not multitask forums and Arm at the same time sometimes.

What I am saying is it should be clearly defined that OOC requests for basic help (that should be read before playing) are not aloud. Players should be told to submit a Player Complaint of any new players doing this, or just ignore them.

This was just in response to someone saying that The basic information should be read prior to playing. I fully agree with this. Heck I re-read through a lot of documentation when I came back from a 5 year absence just to re-familiarize myself. Lots of players think they can just jump in and start playing especially if they've played other MUDs before. Arm is not just another MUD though and that's what makes it the BEST MUD there is.

Oh, I see.  Well, I'm afraid I still don't agree with this.  You can read a LOT before starting the game and still not understand basic commands or a lot of stuff about the world until you play for awhile.  If the attitude and general expectation was that we must complain about all new players asking for help in the game, I think this would really contribute negatively to our playerbase, as well as the MUD's overall reputation.

[Maso]

Yeah, the general consensus on this in the past has just been to use some sense. The occasional OOC question is not the end of the world. You can get a feel for how much OOC is ok just by playing the game - very little. So long as you always feel a little bit awkward and apologetically (inwardly) from using OOC, you'll probably be fine just using your own judgement. A 'complaint appropriate scenario' would be obvious...but even then if it's just a one off conversation to put a new player on the right course it's still not the end of the world. Just don't want people getting into habits where they think it's ok to do it all the time.

[slvrmoontiger]

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for new accounts that get created and new characters an email be sent stating something along the lines of the reading involved in order to play. Put in the email something like reply back to this email after you have read and provide the links. The post in there that help isn't available while in game and post consequences for OOCing for help that they should have already read about. This should all be crystal clear to them to stop from everything going on. I'm sure a lot of people won't want to play that at all but this all needs a reply before a character is approved for new players. I think it will prevent some new players leaving.

This is confusing, but I think you're saying that new players should be required to submit a report to the staff, prior to character approval, that they have read documentation?  If that is indeed what you're saying, I don't think it's necessary.  And help is available in game.  Every helpfile on the website is also coded into the game.  It can be accessed by typing >help

Sorry it was confusing. I should not multitask forums and Arm at the same time sometimes.

What I am saying is it should be clearly defined that OOC requests for basic help (that should be read before playing) are not aloud. Players should be told to submit a Player Complaint of any new players doing this, or just ignore them.

This was just in response to someone saying that The basic information should be read prior to playing. I fully agree with this. Heck I re-read through a lot of documentation when I came back from a 5 year absence just to re-familiarize myself. Lots of players think they can just jump in and start playing especially if they've played other MUDs before. Arm is not just another MUD though and that's what makes it the BEST MUD there is.

Oh, I see.  Well, I'm afraid I still don't agree with this.  You can read a LOT before starting the game and still not understand basic commands or a lot of stuff about the world until you play for awhile.  If the attitude and general expectation was that we must complain about all new players asking for help in the game, I think this would really contribute negatively to our playerbase, as well as the MUD's overall reputation.

I still think you misunderstood my intentions on this statement. Several posts back someone stated that basic commands should already be known before they enter the world. I was just commenting and in a sarcastic way I should state on how crazy that statement was. I will continue to keep helping new players as I have in the past. I just know that if the OOC something that can be answered IG I'm going to politely OOC saying to asking IG. I'll try sending them to the link and or the helpers chat, but I think that's going to turn off some new players.

[Barzalene]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but on the new player front, I think you guys may be over thinking this.

If you can help them with a quick ooc aside, do it. If there are people around, do it in such a way it doesn't distract other people.

If it becomes a whole to do, send them to a helper for help outside the game.

Do not use the game as a chat room.
Do not be an asshole to new players and leave them frustrated and floundering.

I think you all knew this already, but you just like to debate.

[Desertman]

However, Desertman is saying...

Except that isn't what I'm saying at all, in any way.

I'm saying that shouting your own name repeatedly and nothing else in the middle of combat is my issue.

I outlined it in an exact example...

[Maso]

If you can help them with a quick ooc aside, do it. If there are people around, do it in such a way it doesn't distract other people.

If it becomes a whole to do, send them to a helper for help outside the game.

Do not use the game as a chat room.

Do not be an asshole to new players and leave them frustrated and floundering.

Seems like a good set of guidelines.

[Desertman]

As an aside that is kind of funny.

I just realized last night I played a character that was known for shouting his own name in combat repeatedly, and here I am bitching about it.

That is the only time I have seen it done where it was actually IC, made sense in the game world, and not for a coded benefit.

[Qzzrbl]

As an aside that is kind of funny.

I just realized last night I played a character that was known for shouting his own name in combat repeatedly, and here I am bitching about it.

That is the only time I have seen it done where it was actually IC, made sense in the game world, and not for a coded benefit.

If I had a name like that, I'd shout it out with regularity as well.

[LauraMars]

As an aside that is kind of funny.

I just realized last night I played a character that was known for shouting his own name in combat repeatedly, and here I am bitching about it.

That is the only time I have seen it done where it was actually IC, made sense in the game world, and not for a coded benefit.

^ did you play a half giant named Hodor?

[Desertman]

As an aside that is kind of funny.

I just realized last night I played a character that was known for shouting his own name in combat repeatedly, and here I am bitching about it.

That is the only time I have seen it done where it was actually IC, made sense in the game world, and not for a coded benefit.

^ did you play a half giant named Hodor?

No, he wasn't mentally retarded. He did it because he had serious ego issues and truly believed he was so feared that his name would strike terror into any who faced him.

[Adhira]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but on the new player front, I think you guys may be over thinking this.

If you can help them with a quick ooc aside, do it. If there are people around, do it in such a way it doesn't distract other people.

If it becomes a whole to do, send them to a helper for help outside the game.

Do not use the game as a chat room.
Do not be an asshole to new players and leave them frustrated and floundering.

I think you all knew this already, but you just like to debate.

Yes. This.

This is exactly right.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but on the new player front, I think you guys may be over thinking this.

If you can help them with a quick ooc aside, do it. If there are people around, do it in such a way it doesn't distract other people.

If it becomes a whole to do, send them to a helper for help outside the game.

Do not use the game as a chat room.
Do not be an asshole to new players and leave them frustrated and floundering.

I think you all knew this already, but you just like to debate.

Yes. This.

This is exactly right.

+1

I just wanted to restate that when I rezzed this thread this isn't what I was talking about.  I never have a problem with helping someone with one command to keep things moving.

[Zoan]

Though I'm pretty roleplayz, at the end of the day this is a MUD, and that means (under certain conditions) mechanics trump RP.

Mechanics trumping RP: 300 lines are scrolling per second because the fire-kanks are on your ass. You don't have the time to artfully word out with a bracket-emote how deep in the shit you are right now to your comrades because failing to let them know will have very real, not very responsible repercussions to events happening.

[Haroro26]

thank you

[eltanimras]

The question's late, but, speaking of bracketed emotes, I can't help wondering how offended players would be by "say (Hodor) Help!"

Violation of standard emoting conventions aside, the results would still be short a comma, I think. Too bad.

[Marauder Moe]

You shouldn't be using anyone's name as a non-targeting ("targeting" being a PC's name/keyword preceded by ~, %, !, or any of the targeting characters) word in an emote or command emote.

Though, perhaps what you're looking for is:
>say (to ~Hodor) Help!

Which is fine, and basically equivalent to:
>tell Hodor Help!

[LauraMars]

I think what he's asking is what player reaction would be to preceding his say command with his own name.

So it would show up as,

Hodor, the tall, muscular man exclaims in sirihish,
    "Help!"

This is missing a comma to be grammatically correct (as was previously mentioned), and is also against the rules, but I think that's the spirit of his question.

[Marauder Moe]

Oh, well, yeah, you shouldn't be using your own character's name in emotes or command messages either.

(I wasn't sure because that's not something Hodor would say.    )

[Kevo]

Discuss this, or clarify player and staff opinions.

As the day turns to night, and two sexy people get ready to lie down, they realize, kanking is imminent
It's been a long ride back to nakkiville, and all three rangers and the massive, thick-ego-ed templar are eager to discuss their kills, and trade their spoils
Pretty much any scene that is expected to happen, should happen, would happen in the game world, but RL does not permit it

The problem, one has to leave soon, or all, so they decide, over the OOC channel how the scene unfolded, for brevity's sake. Not OOC brevity, RL brevity. A few examples:

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Sexy man says, in words, 'Hey, my lover, I wanna snuggle.'

Creepy Mul says, in angry words, 'Snuggle this!'

creepy mul says, OOC'ly 'Hey, I gott go. FTB?

Sexy man says, OOC'ly 'Uh, what exactly is happening'

[i]Both begin to discuss, hopefully briefly, what sexy man was snuggling, and why creepy mul was making him snuggle. Then responses, then altered responses because it turns out Creepy Mul just need a hug, and Sexy Man was ready for something awful, etc, etc, etc.[/i]

Or

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Every Breed ranger ever says, in brood, 'Look at this mek skull I have'

Perfect Templar says, 'A mek skull, really?'

Every Breed ranger ever says,OOC'ly 'I gotta go. Mom's home, and she thinks Arm is the devil.

Perfect Templar says, 'Yeah, I should have asked for consent that one time when you got her to play. Um, My Templar wants that skull. He's gonna bitch-slap you with the rod of impunity, lock you in a cell, and take it.

[i]Discussion ensues about how the scene would or should unfold[/i]

Ooooor....

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(for brevity's sake)

Man A says, 'Give me that sack of food, or I'll stab you with the metal knife.'

Man M says, 'No.'

[i]Both begin discussing whether or not the paint one used is noticeable, the other says it's realistic, a lot of rp went into it blah, blah blah.[/i]

Pretty much, how in the world do you discuss things, or should you even? Sometimes, you need more info, and the OOC seems the best way to do that.

Go!

[Marauder Moe]

snuggles

Ms. Mul shouldn't be asking to FTB unless she intends a consent-worthy action.  It should just be "OOC sorry, I gotta go."  If this pseudo-sexy time is important character development, as it might be for a mul, it shouldn't happen OOCly/virtually/offline.  Log off and deal with it later, playing as though nothing unusual happened in the mean time.

mek skull

In a situation where a criminal logs off in the middle of interrogation like that, the staff can have the suspect log back into a jail cell to be dealt with.  However, wanting some loot may not be a high enough priority to warrant such measures.  Templars don't always get their way ICly or OOCly.

painted knife

That OOC discussion is completely inappropriate.  Malik called Amos's bluff.  He needs to either get stabby or bugger off.


EDIT: TL;DR none of those OOC discussions are warranted.

[Kevo]

I don't know what TL;DR means.

I appreciate the input, though.

[Marauder Moe]

It means "too long; didn't read" or "in summary".