Crafting Idea

[Crashloft]

Upon character creation, one should be possibly be given the choice to type in what their crafting signature should look like.  What this would do, is that on each item they make, it would insert the signature on the item, making it identifiable.

IE:  
Enter your crafting signature now>
a small erdlu with a large schlong

Very well, your crafting signature is: A small erdlu with a large schlong


craft bone obsidian leather into bone-handled tomahawk
.
..
...
....
.....
You craft a bone-handled, obsidian-headed tomahawk.

ex tomahawk

blah blah blah blah blah blah.  Engraved on the handle of this fine weapon is a small erdlu with a large schlong.

[P-ton]

I love this idea.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You know...this is a good idea. Perhaps, however, you could simply do it in game, rather than during character creation. It also recommend a thirty-five character limit on the short description for it, and a more generic type of implementation, like "A spiral and ring is depicted upon this item."

Code Select Expand

Help Signature

Signature is a merchant's mark, indicating the identity of the crafter of an item. There is a 35 character limit on your signature.

Examples of good signatures:

a sun-backlit tower
a elven skull
a profiled warhammer

Syntax:

Signature [35 letters or less]

[spawnloser]

I think character creation is best, actually, V.  That way it could get screened with the rest of the character.

[Angela Christine]

craft meat into grilled scrab steak

examine steak

blah, blah, blah.  On the back of this item is engraved a profiled warhammer.

Um.  :?


AC

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Agreed, spawn. And, uhm, AC? They would probably exclude foods, arrows, and minor items. Bows, weapons, armors, vases...these are the hings which would benefit from this implementation.

[Anonymous]

Yuck.

I'm the foremost basketweaver in the Known World.  People come from miles around to get my baskets, and the little sigil of a rotting baobab tree.  Unbeknownst to them, I'm also a sneaky little Elkrosian.  I'd hate for someone to run across some magick components, hey, rotting baobab tree.  Let's hang him.

I think this is rather infeasible, based on the code.  Or, to the point, more effort than is worthwhile.  Every item will now need a 'signature' text string added to it.  Except, see, that will create a separate instance of that object.  And really... fifteen numut-vine baskets, most have a rotting baobab tree on them, a few don't, they're all the exact same, it just shows that I can spam-craft just like the rest of you.
Whopee.

Leave it the way it is.  When you get to be a master-crafter, you can start making special orders, trust me, it's fun.  And when you do that, might as well add a little rotting baobab tree to it.  After all, it's something no one else has ever made, you should mark it.  I just don't think mass-produced items should be individually marked.

Guestie-guestie.

[Malifaxis]

I don't know about code difficulty, but from what I'm guessing it could be added as a field value on the main desc of the item.  Kind of like... well those smelly tags.  They have an additive to the main desc of the item, don't they?

-OR-

An additional skill.  A signature skill... because honestly, merchants would be the ones, I'd think, that would most want this.  For non merch crafter folk, they'd get a small percentage.  You set the sig up at char gen, it's approved with the PC (so no Heckler & Koch sig'd longbows come into the game... though I think 7DV might be in on this with me, but I would *KILL* for a maar hand-crossbow with "Glock" on the side), and maybe additional signatures could be added via submitting to the clan staffer of the PC.  You'd craft the item like normal, get the end result, and if your PC deemed the item worthy, or was doing it for the reason of fame whatever, THEN you add your signature.  It's another roll, and on a crit fail, I could see the item being mangled or given the addition sig instead of "There are numerous ink stains along the bottom of this sketch" or "A large hunk of rock has been accidentally chipped away."

It would totally rock to have this done, I think.  Signed items would be more valuable ICly... promoting more trade, coveted items, possibly even ShadowRun like missions to go steal a crafter from a rival house... there's too many possibilities.

I'd be very willing to contribute to the messages or whatever is needed.

Fucking rock on, Crashloft.

[Angela Christine]

So, you would need to put a flag on all 2836 craftable items, to determine if it is or is not something a signature can be added to?  And each of the things that could be signed would need a little text string added to show where the signiture goes?  For example: "Engraved on the pommel is" or "Stitched into the collar is".  

To me that seems like a lot of effort for a small return.  It does sound cool though.  To make it more special, and avoid the problem "Guestie-guestie" brought up, I'd suggest making it a Merchant-only ability.  The crafting subguilds aren't designed to make you a Master, and no one would be interested in the mark of a talented amature.  

Angel of Christmas

[Crashloft]

Implementing this in code would be fairly easy.  Some people are proud of what the make and might want see their symbol on the item.  I think it would be a good option to have.  You could also add a command to the change syntax, for those of us who don't want to have their brand on an item.

Change    Signature(or whatever)     On/Off

That would make it simple.

I won't even waste my time on the food comment.  heh Dur

[Crashloft]

I agree, it seemed like a good idea at the time I thought of it.  heh  Feck it!  

I give!!!!!!!!

[creeper386]

Well... As far as I know, most items are considered generic. If you look at the item submission, unless the item is going to be a one and only item, you don't include unique things.

I'm personally think it should just be left to 'special orders'. Let the character put his signature on something thats his. If he's just producing some generic brand vase that slaves and such make hordes of the same... Well it's probably nothing special, but if he makes a special vase thats uniquely his due to skill, style, material so on and so forth... Well I could see it bearing some sort of his symbol so as to tell who made it.

Basically, if you want something more then just a generic item, make it yourself, and then you can have whatever emblem you want on it.

Creeper

[__Torax__]

I think if this idea is implemented you should be able to choose if you want to add your signiture or not. That would also be able to let you exclude food and items of the sort. Also it would allow for a bit of annonyminity if you dont want your signiture engraved all over a specialized item that will be used for something secretive.

[spawnloser]

Personally...I am kinda with AC.  The only fix to that situation would be to make all signatures on items generic...just have it show up in value like the 'northlands salarr' or 'kadius' sigils that are on items already.

[Malifaxis]

On the subject of signed food... people do that IRL.

USDA Prime Grade A Beef.  Numerous other examples.

It would, of course, mean more if food went bad if ill prepared.

*nudge*

Well if the main dexcriptions of objects that are changed are saved like that.
Just add the mark to the main description, a field that already exists on objects. If they are always loaded as generici objects it wouldnt work so nevermind..

I think its a great idea. Perhaps only if the maker gets to a certain skill level. So likely only merchants would be able to use it. Advanced merchants. So who made the knife who killed that idiot noble? Looks like it was silly merchant #6's weapon hehe.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Ok. While I am listening to folks talking about how hard it would be, let's put it down for real. I now dislike UO greatly, but their crafting system allowed a maker's mark. So, if their system allows a maker's mark on exceptional items, then why not put a maker's mark on a talented merchant's product? Now, would it be very hard? I doubt it.

And Malifaxis, if I could have a .45 Colt hand crossbow, no, two, and be able to hold them in both hands...nigga, I'd nut.

[theebie]

adding a short string to the main-description of an item upon creation
(through a craft) should be quite easy
probably just something like
if( (crafter_set_signatur(string signatur)) &&
   (crafter.craftskill > requirementForSignatur) ) {
 item.maindesc += signatur;
}

my question would be, now that we are at a point where all (?) theorethical problems are talked about, what next ?

---theebie---

[creeper386]

You got one problem Theebie. As far as I know. And it's been said the same way in the past. Items aren't saved individually. So there'd have to be some way to keep track of which items have which signature and such. Which is much more complicated. Basically, unless every item that is loaded is individually saved, your idea of how it would be coded wouldn't work. What that would do is permenantly change that item everytime someone crafted it with a signature. Along with the fact thats just psuedo code that could very well not even come CLOSE to meshing with whats currently coded.

Anyways. Again, if people want unique objects, they should make them. They shouldn't use generic crafting items. I mean... After they get good I'm sure they have access to crafting items already in place that are uncommon. If no PC makes them it'd be rare and if someone starts making them and it becomes popular it'll be known it's from them. OR, they can just make acctual unique items. The staff tends to be fairly generous when it comes to creative license PCs have. Although it'd probably help to have your items craftable and be able to toss into the mix with everything else. If your characters fairly well based and contributing I'm sure that even unique one time use items wouldn't be TOO hard to get.

Basically, if you want to be known, do something other then everything everyone else is doing. This comes from other games that have supplimented a signature thing, and it comes down to ending up everyone knows what sig goes to who and such, and it tends to cheapen things. It automates things. Automated things may make stuff easier and be nifty at first, but in the long run it just kind of, well ... automates things? It just takes alot out of everything, makes it unreal.


Creeper

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I assure you...while items may not be saved individually, there is code in place which personalizes items. If this were not so, then the bracer you have would not be dusty. The system saves the item in YOUR pfile or in the room save file. While doing that, it also makes note of the condition and effects applying to that item. If the signature is created upon character creation and added to a seperate c. file called Signatures when the character is approved, then it is added as an effect, your problem with the idea is eliminated.

Also, I agree that only good merchants should be able to add a tag, BUT, I want to see the tag. Fuck the bullshit that it messes up the world. I want to see it, and I am in full support of Crashloft's idea.

What do you IMMs have to say?

[Delirium]

The damage or dirty tags are temporary. Adding a personalization wouldn't be.

To make an item personalized, it would probably have to be a unique item. Meaning for every merchant that wants to make grass baskets with a cute little symbol on the bottom, there would need to be a separate version of grass basket so that each could have its own personalized little stamp. Add a keyword to one generic item, you add that keyword to all other existing generic items.

[spawnloser]

Okay, I think everyone's missing that there are already signatures on items...when you 'value' something.  Why not make it able to go as personal as individual crafter by expanding that code already in place?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Firstly, there would be no new keyword added.

Secondly, the dusty tags and such are temporary. The way to make the maker's mark permanant would be to:

1) Make the tag invisible, so that when someone looks at a basket, they don't see a signed basket, they see a basket. Only when they look at the object do they see the maker's mark.

2) Make the tag non-cleanable, much like the ripped tag.

Spawnloser, I'll agree with you there. Just one problem. If it is put in value or assess rather than the main desc, only certian characters with certian skills will be able to even see it. That is not right. If that part is fixxed, I'll wholeheartedly agree to it only being in assess or value.

Finally, to ensure that the C. file remains small and that this signature shit does not get out of hand, I recommend that a maker's mark be allowed when the character is at 95% or higher of their skill cap in that particular skill. Remember, a maker's mark would be used to denote quality, and while quality is not something that is currently accounted for, this would certianly denote that the object is of quality.

[Anonymous]

My thoughts...

First, this is not a literate society.  So, in order for a maker's mark to work, the craftsmen who put it there would have to be -very- well known, as all it would be is a symbol that would have to be recognized by the population.  An individual craftsman being able to be that well known is very unlikely, perhaps the very best of the best might gain that prestige...

Second, the best craftsmen in the world are snatched up by the Merchant houses very quickly, perhaps offering them great compensation, perhaps threatening them with death for trying to compete.  These crafters are then going to put their House maker's mark which would be recognized with relative ease.  

I can see the OOC need for maker's marks, as PC crafters have a difficult road to travel, but I see this as extremely realistic.  You can't with little to no training start out a craftsmen firm in RL without a great deal of funds to practice your trade.  This realism is brought into the game, if you want to become a master at crafting, doing it on your own should be extremely difficult.  Doing it with a great merchant house, would be far easier, but you'd have to share the fruits of your labors with them, as they supply the capital and training to have brought you to that degree of skill.

[creeper386]

For one, it wouldn't be saved as a c file. '.c' files are used for compiling. Besides that I'm pretty sure they just sit idly by while the rest of the MUD has fun.

Most likely it'd be made in some other text based file specifically for signatures. If it's possible you can modify an items main description. You could do it with a flag, yes, but it's still not an easy fix. It'd be at least a decent amount of building. Then you'd have to have a coder code a way to save/retrieve/manipulate the information from/to a text file, and place it into the main description of the items that are only flagged to handle that.

And even if it was an incredibly easy fix ... Well honestly, it's going to be more trouble then these HIGHLY skills crafters acctually just, MAKING their own goods. Even if your not in a bloody clan I'm sure you can find a staff to help you implement items. I'm sure you can find someone that'd be willing to HELP you write the items if your unsure of your capabilities in writing it yourself. But if you're not creative enough to come up with ideas for whatever you've been crafting to this greatly high fucking skill. You probably shouldn't even be PLAYING here. You most likely wouldn't have got that far.

I'm sorry, but basically it WOULD cheapen things in the long wrong. You come acrossed a PC crafted item. Look at it. See there isn't a crafting sig or see that it's someone you don't like and you won't use it. I'm sorry. PCs aren't that significant most the time. They won't have that big of an impact on the world. As a whole. And if they do, there should be a REASON for it. Not just some bloody damn coded fucking flag. Get your brain off it's fucking ass and do something that MAKES your work stick out instead of just some cheap ass fucking little code that makes things "Special."

Creeper