Foofy Pets

[jmordetsky]

I had a thought while walking my dog today. I've never seen a well todo merchant or Noble with a Foofy pet.

By foofy pet I mean a zalanthas equivalent of the little manicured dogs and cats you see that cost like 2k from a breeder.

I live in manhattan, and out of all the 'way too wealthy' noblepersons I see walking around 3 out of 10 have a fluffy little friend. So I figure, one the Borsails, Fales and etcs out there had to atleast consider it at one point...

So I'm thinking these could the code equiv of mounts that are unmountable, just hitchable.

Plus, it would create an entire market for "Luxury Domesticateds" and the merchants, traders and breeders to follow suit.

Thoughts?

[Marauder Moe]

I've seen it before, more or less.

[Lazloth]

Exists.

[Carnage]

There are pets, such as songbirds and other ones. People also have domesticated certain animals but it tends to be rare since they can easily turn feral.

[Kalden]

Quirri : These lithe black felines are generally found in the tablelands of the northwest. Their pelts are prized for their luxurious, soft fur. Occasionally, one has been tamed to serve as an exotic pet, but they are often unpredictable, and may lash out at an owner.

[tortall]

I've had a bet gortok several times. I've always wanted a pet quirrl..... Of course, so many people in taverns would freak out when I took my pet gortok for a walk. I hear once my boss took his gortok into the Sanct, and an imm made it pee in there, so gortok's were banned. Which -I- thought was pretty stupid, I mean, some people wouldn't want ELVES in there, but they're still allowed in!


-Tortall, who still has yet to get a pet quirrl.

[Dakkon Black]

I mean, some people wouldn't want ELVES in there, but they're still allowed in!

Thats because only some of them pee

[jmordetsky]

This may be a derailment, but the topic of animals going feral...

How come kanks don't go feral? I would imagine the chances of an animal that has been historical domesticated by humans would have little or no chance of going feral...Like a feral cow...when was the last time you saw a feral cow?

I was thinking less alnog the lines of caputring and taming, As I was raising them...perhaps breeding them (not with them, you sick, sick...)

What a great role that would I think, the luxury domesticated merchant.

You coul probably just RP it, and create in animate descrips people could emote to.

[Sanvean]

I -really- don't like the pet gortoks. Someone made one and then suddenly everyone and their neighbor had one up in Tuluk. Gortoks are big, nasty, feral animals, similar to having a pet hyena. You wouldn't be able to trust one, and yet people were doing unrealistic things like giving their baby objects rides on them and treating them as though they were the equivalent of Terran dogs.  (I'm not aiming that at you, Tortall, but at the pet gortok phenomenon in general).

Where there are pets, they should convey the flavor of the game. Like the softening of the gortoks, too many fluffy quirri kittens dilute the impact of the harsh desert world. Small birds, scorpions, bats... all of those seem all right for an eccentric noble to have, but at the same time they're more interesting and atmospheric if only one or two nobles have such a thing, as opposed to all of them.

I was talking to someone online the other day about the atmosphere of the game, and what adds/detracts from it. I like a flash of humor here and there, such as Globbuluk in Allanak, who I think manages to convey a number of different things, including the post-apocalyptic atmosphere with its consequent mutations and a touch of fun, but I wouldn't want more than that. It's like salt in cooking - it's essential (imo), but a little goes a long way.

The problem is so often that the exception is taken as a standard, so things that are anachronistic or okay in very small doses tend to propogate. One of the things that we'll be doing in the upcoming year, I think, is enforcing these things a little more strictly and not letting people submit objects like tuxedos, pianos or similar accoutrements.

[DrunkenSalarr]

In the past, I've had characters (all 'nakkis) with pets, either a rat or a roach.  I could easily see either of these as feasable pets for commoners.

As for nobles? Why not have pet humans/dwarfs?

[Cuusardo]

As for nobles? Why not have pet humans/dwarfs?

I thought those were called slaves?

[Delirium]

I dunno, I think a realistically played gortok pet could add a LOT to the environment, not detract from it. Of course, I could be biased, because I like to think I did a good job with a past character's brief stint at (attempting) to raise one (without the help of professionals, stupid girl). It's among my fondest memories of Armag, with some of the most absolutely hilarious and also most heartbreaking RP ever.

I tried to reflect that it was a wild animal, despite the fact that it was a small pup that had been raised with humans since before its eyes had opened. And I fully agreed with the Imm that made it go feral, because despite the fact that it was risen hand and foot by my character, it would have taken professional training to even hope to salvage what was essentially a heyena or wolf snatched from the den at a young age. Regardless, the roleplay surrounding it was a LOT of fun, mainly because of that very fact - the challenge of trying to deal with and tame a wild animal that had formed a strong bond to one person only.

[mansa]

Aren't pets just like babies?

[aeshyw]

I've always wondered why no enterprising individual had taken to breeding miniature versions of gortoks/quirris/jozhals or other animals.  True, the small version might still be mean and feral, but it wouldn't be dangerous to drag them about on a leash - well, unless they bit your local templar's ankle.

I'd imagine it would possibly take generations of a merchant house's efforts to produce usable 'pets' this way, and they'd be obscenely expensive.  But, I think that it might be a fun story line for someone to pursue if it doesn't distract from the harshness of the environment.  After all, the concept of breeding to produce specific qualities isn't unknown within the game.

[Carnage]

I -really- don't like the pet gortoks. Someone made one and then suddenly everyone and their neighbor had one up in Tuluk. Gortoks are big, nasty, feral animals, similar to having a pet hyena. You wouldn't be able to trust one, and yet people were doing unrealistic things like giving their baby objects rides on them and treating them as though they were the equivalent of Terran dogs. (I'm not aiming that at you, Tortall, but at the pet gortok phenomenon in general).

A-fucking-men.

Personally I think it's great that some immortal made an animal take a leak in the middle of a tavern. People treat these things around like it's the best and rarest piece of EQ in the game. They wear it (birds) and then completely forget to emote anything about it. In real life, birds crap all the time. If you're wearing a cloak and some bird is perched on your shoulder all the time, it's going to crap on your cloak.

This is Zalanthas. Domesticatation isn't exactly the #1 priority in the world and the ideas behind it are probably mostly limited to "don't attack or else you'll be punished". Not to mention that these animals haven't been with humans. Dogs are excellent pets because they've been around man for thousands of years. If I recall correctly I believe I read somewhere that cats know/can learn only fourty or so words while dogs can learn more. I could be off but it just goes to show that time will help domesticate these animals.

You grab a gortok pup and send it to Winrothol to tame it it's still going to be a wild animal. It may not attack as much as it did before but it certainly will when it gets scared. Chances are that it's also not taught how to go off and use a chamber pot or when to urinate and when not to. Keep all this in mind the next time you have your ub3r l33t p3t hanging about you.

[Rindan]

I think people bring up a good point.  A gortok is not a dog.  Dogs have evolved to live with humans for thousands of years.  Dogs are in fact amazing creatures in how they have adapted to survive with humans.  Despite the fact that some dogs, especially larger ones, could maul their masters, they have been bred to accept subservient roles.  Dogs that were bred to live with humans are pretty damned safe to be around, and for the most part completely fit into the social order.  You can see what happens though when a dog is not bred to be around humans.  For instance, dogs that have been bred to be vicious are in fact vicious at times.  It isn't like dog maulings never occur.  Further, consider that most of the dogs bread to be vicious were also bred to live with humans, and so despite breeding to live with humans can still go feral.

Now, take a gortok.  This is a vicious creature.  It is much more aggressive then any dog of wolf.  Their descriptions describe them as being covered in scars and their fur torn and shredded from constant fighting.  Even the most vicious of wolves are not literally torn apart from all of their fighting.  Gortok are by their very nature hell bent on fighting for dominance.  It is silly to think that this instinctual need to dominate those in the pack would suddenly vanish because they were raised from a pup with humans.  They are not dogs born and bred to live with humans in subservient roles, these are vicious animals born and bred to more vicious then the gortok next to it.  This creature is an absolutely horrible pet.

I understand the desire to have that image of the bad ass guy in leather with a vicious gortok as a pet.  If that is the image you want to fill, play a magiker who could pull off that sort of thing and not have it be silly, cliché, and out of theme.

There are reasonable pets that people could have.  The top two I can think of would be small lizards and rats.  A small lizard is probably a reasonable pet.  They don't eat too much, most are utterly harmless, and in a pinch you could probably eat it.  Rats are much the same, only cheaper.  I could see some commoner dreg with a pet rat he feeds a few crumbs too.  I could see a merchant having a small lizard he keeps around.  Both are easily emoted as virtual pets.

[Bestatte]

Snakes are kewl too. Even poisonous ones. Though the african black somethingorother snake wouldn't make a good pet - they're naturally aggressive and extremely poisonous. But just as in the real world, most snakes in Zalanthas aren't naturally agressive. Skittish, fearful, protective of their territory and food, and hungry. It would take time to get a snake to cozy up to you. But certainly doable.

In the real world, a 15-foot albino anaconda is an AWESOME pet. One that would eat your kid's pony if he got hungry enough. Or eat your kid, for that matter. I used to hang out at a friend's house, and they had a 15-foot albino anaconda named Spike. Used to stretch itself across the couch on everyone's lap. Sweetest thing, I called him Puppy and would pet him while we watched stupid shit on TV together.

The point is, even deadly snakes can be great pets. Some of the poisonous ones are natural predators, but that is a rarety in the snake world. Most of them just want a nice warm spot, a few rocks they can hide under, fresh water, and a halfling or two every month for supper.

[X-D]

99% chance you mean albino burmese python.

I have one, she is 16' long and her name is Butter, she has bitten a couple times in the last 9 years, but mostly my fault, and really is only a danger to rabbits.


My currently 9' long tiger reticulated python on the other hand. though has has never bit anybody yet, he is simply scary and one must always treat him like he is thinking about biting, well, cause he is, reticulated are afraid of nothing.

[Bestatte]

Nope, I meant an anaconda (sometimes referred to as water boas). You can see a great shot of one here:

http://membres.lycos.fr/anacondavert/fourphotogalery2.html

They're a constrictor type snake, thrive on humidity so obviously not a Zalanthan-type critter. But they're still a snake, and still worthy of pet-hood, and snakes are still a-ok in my book of possible Zalanthan pets.

[X-D]

Hhhmm, I know exactly what an anaconda is, Also, an albino would be insanely rare, and they are sorta like retic's in that they should never be treated as harmless.


The Albino burmese python (which is not really albino BTW) is a rather common snake.

[creeper386]

Snakes and rats. Greatest pets ever. I had a rat that had about a foot long body, about another foot for the tail. Fairly intellegent beast and even though he was clean of diseases not something you'd want mad at you.

Heck, had a small albino rat that went crazy... Killed another rat in the cage with it and nearly too my mothers finger off. It was about 1/3-1/4 the size of the rat above.

As for snakes, I've never owned one. One of my dad's roommates had a Rosy Boa(?? Think thats what it was. Something like that) Wasn't too incredibly big but really docile creature.

Burmese Pythons though, have to be one of my favorite constrictors. They are just really cool animals.

As for Zalanthan snakes or rats. I'd imagine most would be poisonous or diseased. You don't want to fuck with a diseased rat. Even if it's just mentally fucked up. Most poisonous snakes I know of aren't exactly what be considered something that would cuddle up with you, but I'd imagine there might be some someplace. As I imagine any sort of cage to hold a snake or rat well probably be fairly expensive you'd most likely have the animal around you most the time. Although small ceramic bottles could probably work for snakes(They work in fanstasy books don't they?).

Oh well... Albino Burmeses are really cool too. White with yellowish markings... Don't remember what color their eyes are but think I remember something about being colored though and not pigmentless like a real ablino creature... SHRUG.

I want another albino rat, but this time I want a big one like my big rat I used to have. Only problem is albinos tend to be WAY more susceptible to everything it seems. *sigh* The cool always die young.


Creeper

[Angry fangy.]

Animals bite back and do stupid things on zalanthas. Like I used to have a snake who bit me like once a month. A white rat who would try to bite me at least every feeding day. a parrot who would bite me if I tried to touch or feed it.  a cat who would lash out her claws whenever touched. A dog who would bite my pants and refuse to let go. We all have pets who bite back and lash out at you in real life, why not have it in zalanthas? all this crap about domesticated dogs and cats and all that mumbo jumbo. look at the dolphin, can be taken from the wild and make a wonderfull pet, or a parrot. Can be taken from the wild and be taught the vocabulary of a four year old. Also falcons can be tamed to freeking hunt for you!  The only animals that would be a problem would be the ones who live sole off of natural reactions. Like the Racoon! or a python when he gets hungry.

Now pets would not be a problem if they actually do the things I mentioned above. They should get scared easy, they should shit and piss all over the place to restrict people where to take them and they should bite back. To keep them from killing you they should be easy to subdue, obviously the larger ones being harder then the smaller ones. If this is done then the average player would not get a pet unless you spend most of your time away from crouded places.

Next we have the argument that for 'every person to have a pet is unrealistic.' well think about it. Even if -every- player had a pet it would not be unrealistic due to the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of NPCs and VNPCs who do -not- have pets. Also about that animal pissing on the floor, I dont think animals evolved on a desert planet will just piss out it's mosture. -That- is unrealistic.

Furthermore you look at how much the zalanthian culture has evolved. They can brew beers, make wine, make complex weapontry and armour, make locks(!!!!!!!!), make large castles and homes, make moving houses, even breed muls!. How can you do all this and make a giant fuck a dwarf, Yet cannot tame a tembo for hunting.  It is stupid that a cultures exisiting for thousands of years would only be able to tame a small handfull of animals.

that is all I have to say with pets.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You know....technically, I am inclined to agree with Fangy, however impolite his/her post is (and I assume it a male because of the style of writing). However, I also agree with those who dislike pets.

The truth is, I would like to see more pets, like the birds and the snakes and such. I would also like each of this pets to have a great deal of java-script on them, where you are just about forced to deal with them. Have them shit on you. Have them try to attack someone. Have all of this. But I do say, pets should be a valid thing in Armageddon, and I would like to see more.

Just don't let me see you run into battle with a motherfucking bird perched on your shoulder. That's just gay.

[creeper386]

I'd like to point out. If you don't keep things in proportion among the PC populace things become out of whack, and go unnoticed by the PC population.

How it is, because PCs ussually easiely make coin, the price of a good portion of things is incredibly high. Considering the fact that most the population of the known world even in the large cities are probably on the edge of starvation, wearing something just barely better then rags and such, but it's impossible to tell this harshness by what you see when playing a PC. Just the number of PCs that are wearing silks and affording the finest out weigh the handfuls of poor NPCs you see.

How does this relate to pets? Well if every PC has a pet. Or even just a good amount of them ... Well it's another luxury that tends to skew the world apart. Among PCs is how we see the world. As we don't interact with NPCs very much, and don't even see vNPCs ... The PC population really should reflect decently the true population of the world. At least to some degrees.

[Rindan]

A gortok is not a dolphin, raccoon, or anything of that nature.  A gortok is a creature that is described as being so thoroughly scarred from fighting among themselves that their pelts are completely worthless.  Think of a wolf, now make it larger and significantly more aggressive.  I would say a gortok is even more dangerous then a lion.  A lion is a power creature, but they don't constantly fight among themselves to the point where their hides are completely scar covered.

Even if there was some way to get such a violent and vicious animal, it certainly would not be allowed in the city any more then a lion is allowed in the city today.  You don't see people walking their pet lion down the street, and that is with all of our modern technology to muzzle and control such an animal.  

The world was not always a desert, and desert animals do piss, or at least drop a number 2.  If you put stuff in, it needs to come out.  If you have a blood system, it builds up toxins that need to be removed.

If people want to have pets, that is fine.  Just be reasonable about it.  If you want a gortok to follow you like Lassie, then be a magiker who could pull off such a feat.  If you don't want to have your pet killed on sight the second you enter a civilized place, then have a reasonable pet.

Honestly, I don't think it is worth the time to actually code such pets.  I think most pets would be small animals or insects that one could carry either by hand or in a cage.  Such pets are easily enough RPed through VNPCs and objects.

The only two exception I can think of where it would even begin to make sense that someone has found a larger animal that can be domesticated would be in a tribal setting or in guarding.  I could potentially a group of tribal folk learning that X pet is useful for something.  I could also potentially see someone tying something nasty up to a chain and using it keep unwanted people off some property.  Walking around with your pet gortok down through Tuluki bazaar or down the streets on the other hand just doesn't seem reasonable.

Finally, there is the OOC consideration.  I just think it would look silly and be annoying if everyone had a damned pet following them around.  It would be like anakore gloves, only more annoying and more wanted by all the players.  Then there is the simple consideration of who is responsible enough for such a pet.  They don't hand out slave NPCs to everyone for a reason.  It takes some responsibility to use NPCs that you can command around, and that would be doubly so if you are talking about some violent pet.  If you can just go buy one at the store, then anyone and everyone would be able to run around with one.  It just feels far too hack and slash for me.