Armor Materials Now Completed -- Discussion Thread

[ArmageddonMUD]

This thread is for discussion of the upcoming code change for armor materials, announced here.

[Patuk]

MATERIAL_DUNG

brb, mastercrafting

[Bushranger]

Awesome!

[Nergal]

MATERIAL_PAPER

[Nyr]

MATERIAL_DUNG

brb, mastercrafting

Awesome!

I like to think that this image is a direct reply to this post.

[LauraMars]

paper armor would be cool for a noble

somebody do something

Will the increased variety of damaged materials affect armor repair in any way?  I.e. will you need raw duskhorn to repair duskhorn scale mail?

[Wday]

I love this! Simply love it and good job staff!

[Alesan]

Now I'm wondering how much hunting one will be able to do before they have to replace/repair all their armor. Not that it's not a good change, I just hope it's not a jarring one.

[Nyr]

Will the increased variety of damaged materials affect armor repair in any way?  I.e. will you need raw duskhorn to repair duskhorn scale mail?

Armor repair itself will remain unchanged by this code so you will need raw material to repair something same as before.

[Desertman]

Great job staff. For this, I reward you with one creepy awkward Snape.

[CodeMaster]

Awesome.

[Inks]

Put a repairer in RS. Great change.

[Armaddict]

This is excellent, and a good change.

Good on you guys, I like anything that makes itemization more of a thing.

[Delirium]

Put a repairer in RS. Great change.

Also fix the armor repair skill.

[Nyr]

Also fix the armor repair skill.

Can you describe what is wrong with the armor repair skill?

[wizturbo]

I hope this means normal clothing (especially fine clothing) will be totally wrecked if you get hit in combat while wearing it...

[FantasyWriter]

My noble's silks were ripped up after that thing in the arena with the spiders a few years ago, soooo....

[Delusion]

I put this in four years ago regarding armour repair, and never revisited it to see if it was fixed. It probably is.

"Critical failures with the armor repair skill - ones which return the echo 'You slip and do further damage to a dusty round black shield.' - cause the item being repaired to be restored to perfect condition.

e.g.
A used beige chitin plate turned into a beige chitin plate when I failed at repairing it.
A cracked round black shield turned into a round black shield when I failed at repairing it.

That only appears to be for critical failures - simply failing to succeed without doing more damage appeared to have no effect."

Also the skill never increased for me.

[Delirium]

It's easier and often less expensive to buy new armor than it is to repair it.

I'd suggest a staff member play with the skill as its almost definitely easier on your end to do that than me try to sit and explain everything that's wrong with it.

[Nyr]

I put this in four years ago regarding armour repair, and never revisited it to see if it was fixed. It probably is.

"Critical failures with the armor repair skill - ones which return the echo 'You slip and do further damage to a dusty round black shield.' - cause the item being repaired to be restored to perfect condition.

e.g.
A used beige chitin plate turned into a beige chitin plate when I failed at repairing it.
A cracked round black shield turned into a round black shield when I failed at repairing it.

That only appears to be for critical failures - simply failing to succeed without doing more damage appeared to have no effect."

Also the skill never increased for me.

Thanks, Delusion!  That helps, we can take a look at the code with that in mind.

It's easier and often less expensive to buy new armor than it is to repair it.

This might be a semantic argument, but this isn't necessarily something that needs fixing (if it isn't the way you'd prefer it to be, it isn't broken, you just dislike it). If one has resources but not money, one can repair armor more easily than one can replace them with new pieces.  If one has money but not resources, one can buy new things more easily than one can repair them.  Each PC's (and each clan's) case might be different, of course.  Tribals and the like can repair things because money has little direct value to them except when engaging with outsiders.  If instead you are in a clan that is flush with cash (nobility, GMH groups, etc.) it might be easier to just buy your guards a new set of gear each week! 

I'd suggest a staff member play with the skill as its almost definitely easier on your end to do that than me try to sit and explain everything that's wrong with it.

Not exactly. If you already know what is broken, you can tell us where to look in the code, or what to attempt to replicate.  What Delusion offered was pretty helpful and is something that can help isolate a problem if it is still there.  I can take that and pass it to a coder, and they can look at that exact part of the armor repair code to see if the math works out to create that exact situation (which keeps me and non-coder staff from flailing around trying to get a critical fail, and which also keeps us from creating test characters to try and skill up armor repair to confirm whether or not it will improve). 

You seem to be familiar with the code in question, at least.  Do you have something to add to that?  Can you confirm whether or not you've seen that behavior more recently than Delusion?

[Patuk]

I'm not sure if repairs being costlier than new buys makes sense in Zalanthas.. Ever. I can see why an organisation like Salarr might want to stop offering repairs to make sure they sell more, but repairs being intrinsically more expensive than new items makes no economic sense whatsoever.

[Nyr]

I'm not sure if repairs being costlier than new buys makes sense in Zalanthas.. Ever. I can see why an organisation like Salarr might want to stop offering repairs to make sure they sell more, but repairs being intrinsically more expensive than new items makes no economic sense whatsoever.

I'm talking about the armor repair skill that merchants and a few subguilds can use--the PC skill.

I'm not talking about the shops that do it in-game.  For that, it shouldn't be costlier than new, unless you've wrecked the item past the point where it costs as much to fix it as it does to buy a new one.

[Lizzie]

Nyr, armor repair has been the -other- redheaded stepchild, the brew stepchild's younger brother, for almost as long. It isn't cost efficient to be a repairer, and can only be improved through twinkery, unless you want to pay way too much for the privilege. Failure ruins the product, so you have to hire someone to bring you gith armor, or buy it from someone, or make friends to load up their packs with these somewhat heavy items, just so you can practice ruining them. If you try on someone's actual armor and fail, you are not only out the materials necessary to repair it - you also owe Joe-da Kurac a new silt horror breastplate.

It is a really badly-planned skill, poorly implemented, inefficient even when it does work, and disasterous when it fails. That is why it's easier and cheaper to buy new armor. No one with armor they actually value, would risk ruining it by getting it repaired, and anyone who doesn't value their armor, wouldn't bother getting it repaired.

Edited because I saw Nyr's superman icon and thought it was Adhira, and didn't read his name to see that it was him. I blame it on Nyr. #thanksnyr

[Nyr]

That gives us a bit more to look at, thanks, Lizzie.  That's something I can actually test (checking repair failures against how much more damaged armor gets, etc).

[Adhira]

Put a repairer in RS.

Done