City-elves and stuff.

[Reiloth]

Fuck elves.

[valeria]

NO TRIBES

I can parse language with the best of them.  My argument against that particular interpretation of the family role call rule is is that you're not creating a tribe, you're creating a family.  All of your elven family members still have to be within one degree of affinity of each other or whatever.  Maybe the rule should be, your elven family tribe can't be larger than your starting family, but your elven family should still be able to call its blood relatives tribe mates.

All elves have tribes, it's in the documentation.  By permitting elven family role calls but not allowing them to call themselves tribemates, it effectively forbids players from doing a family role call for an elven family.

[HavokBlue]

NO TRIBES

I can parse language with the best of them.  My argument against that particular interpretation of the family role call rule is is that you're not creating a tribe, you're creating a family.  All of your elven family members still have to be within one degree of affinity of each other or whatever.  Maybe the rule should be, your elven family tribe can't be larger than your starting family, but your elven family should still be able to call its blood relatives tribe mates.

All elves have tribes, it's in the documentation.  By permitting elven family role calls but not allowing them to call themselves tribemates, it effectively forbids players from doing a family role call for an elven family.

no

all elves have tribes, or want tribes, except your elves, because you have to follow the documentation that says that even though elves are tribal and want tribes and belong in tribes you can't have a tribe



                                                           tribe

[MeTekillot]

Wait, hold on
NO TRIBES
                      ^
                     non-virtual

[Inks]

Oh I misread something.  Virtual tribes cool then?

[Patuk]

Yes. Virtual as in your pc does not get to be a part of one, ever. Like slaves, aod captains, or tribeless delves.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd kind of prefer to see tribal elves driven into the cities, and erase the racial difference, ie: elves are elves are elves. Then we have set up and established staff-supported elven tribes in the cities, filling that role. Now, replace PC tribal desert elves with PC gith, a natural predatory force. Gith at least do something other than think about eating, as PC mantis had to do to be RPed correctly.

[Eyeball]

If you're a builder, a low level builder, this usually means you're talking with higher level staff before you even implement the item, and in that situation you have to make a case for why you think that item will add more flavor to the game. You have to account for who the item is meant for, what region, what sect of people, if it's a rare item or a common item.

I suspect you've hit on a real issue here. We (Storytellers of long ago) had a lot more freedom to build in days past. Securing agreement from a list of people is extremely challenging in any environment. It might mean a certain uniformity is maintained, but it has its cost.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd kind of prefer to see tribal elves driven into the cities, and erase the racial difference, ie: elves are elves are elves. Then we have set up and established staff-supported elven tribes in the cities, filling that role. Now, replace PC tribal desert elves with PC gith, a natural predatory force. Gith at least do something other than think about eating, as PC mantis had to do to be RPed correctly.

I really like this idea.

[Gimfalisette]

Players already have enough issues with clans that are iso but minimally so. Gith would be absolutely iso. But you'd see PC gith sitting in Red Storm, having an ale.

[Bushranger]

Speaking of PC Gith, I think if Gith were tolerated in Red Storm Village again (History time: Some of the hooded npcs in Red Storm village used to be gith! It was part of the whole 'mind your own business' vibe of the village that I really love) then I think PC Gith as a tribe could work well. You've the desert raiding tribe that everyone wants and there is a place and a way for them to interact with others in a less than stab-face way.

As for elves I don't think desert elf tribes need to close but I think it would be a great idea if those tribes were tied to the city. I've spoken before about a hybrid city-desert tribe and I think that would work really well to have some elf presence in the cities! The Sun Runners are a Tablelands tribe that takes it's goods to market in Allanak there is a small portion of the tribe in that city to maintain the trading connection but, being elven, they're usually in the lawless 'rinth. The Soh Lanah Kah take their goods to Tuluk for trade in the tribal markets and there are usually a few from their tribe watching over the trade there. Neither are particularly fond of the city and the city is not particularly fond of them but hey, they're elves and never were anyway!

This gives city elves an option to be in a tribe: they're looking after tribe concerns in the cities, protecting the traders, stealing from the city folk (haha!). It also gives the desert elves a reason to go to one of the cities and interact with people there. I don't think having a small contingent of the desert elf tribes trading in the cities goes against any documentation either. Tuluk has an entire market dedicated to tribal trade.

[MeTekillot]

What I think, in essence, is that the game needs a few more sweeping, world-shaking changes with how some of the culture is.

[Harmless]

I wouldn't mind gith being added. I think there are a few other settlements where it makes complete sense for them to create a semi-cooperative outpost with escaped muls. Both escaped muls and free gith are equally reviled by the main establishments, muls have a massive benefit to being able to speak common sirihish, muls also have less to fear from gith being unbelievably capable fighters. I am not sure gith need to be around in red storm, though, that in my mind is a problem; the Kuracis, for instance, have a long standing hatred of gith, and are very present in Red Storm.

[Saellyn]

They're as present as Salarr or Kadius.

[Jingo]

City elves are basically a city-based iso role at the moment.

One where it takes a veneer of an ic excuse to pk.

As much as I love city elves, you can't really play one that isn't 'rinthi anymore.

[Harmless]

They're as present as Salarr or Kadius.

In Red Storm? Maybe codedly yes, but at least in my experience, there have been far more "let's go to red storm" trips as a Kuraci than as salarris (can't speak for Kadius). Again, in my experience; players in GMH can choose to emphasize red storm more or less, but the availability of raw spice and the absence of a noble culture to fawn over Kadian products make Kurac > Kadius for sure, and the absence of a major military organization (byn, Arm of Dragon, Legions) makes Salarr more likely to go to Allanak or Tuluk for business.

[Malken]

This isn't a thread about gith. Gith PCs aren't going to happen, deal with it.

[MeTekillot]

I don't think gith would really fit the mold of what they want to see.

[Harmless]

This isn't a thread about gith. Gith PCs aren't going to happen, deal with it.

This whole thread isn't going to happen, at least not as a result of this thread, so I can talk about whatever I want to within the topic of city elves "and stuff." I don't see anything new in this thread of significance about city elves/desert elves that wasn't in the much longer thread from not long ago, which also had a lot of good ideas that "aren't going to happen, deal with it."

[Malken]

Right, which makes me think that this whole thread is just for us to yap our mouths until we tire of this topic and move on. It gives us the illusion that our thoughts and ideas matter heheh.

Politics 101.

[Inks]

I enjoyed your ideas Harmless. Finally I am not the only one aboard the Gith train. Toot toot!

[Reiloth]

Threads like these show an ugly side to GDBers that I rarely like seeing.

Also Malken, the ground you stand on will be much firmer when you actually play the game again. Not hating on you not playing the game (we all have our reasons), but most of your posts involve 'fuck the man' without offering much helpful criticism.

Reminds me of people who talk about politics day in and day out but don't vote.

[Harmless]

Saying the community's thoughts don't matter is true in the short term. Over the long term, and especially if accompanied by some kind of IC action, they might. I'm willing to risk typing a few ideas out into the void for the chance that it might stick eventually, because this is a free game and I literally have nothing to lose.

[manonfire]

Gith PCs would be fun. Red Fangs were fun. Blackmoon was fun. City Elf tribes were fun.

Fun is the only justification anyone needs to do anything. I wish all this bureaucratic, red tape bullshit would go away and Arma would return to a game where the defining paradigm was "Fuck yes, that sounds awesome, let's do it!"

Armageddon is not Agrestic. It's not a precision engine. It doesn't need to be master planned. All it needs is talented, dedicated storytellers that are given creative freedom to bring the world to life.

Armageddon reminds me a lot of Austin. Austin was built by creatives - eccentric, brilliant, spastic dreamers. The city developed a unique culture. That culture attracted hordes of desktop support specialists, most of the creatives moved out, and the greatness that was once Austin is now a caricature of itself.

I criticize because I care, but I guess you can't go home again.

[Patuk]

I don't know about gith. It may or may not be a good idea. It'd be fun, certainly, but I(and most of you) have no clue at all how their culture works, and implementing them may take a lot of work.

I do think a lot of issues could be solved by the Soh being allowed to leave the ass end of the world now and then.