Armageddon - Helper Echos

[mansa]

Hey,

What if there was a newbie flag that Armageddon had, toggleable for players, that would echo more information about commands that users type into the game.

You could have it echo things about Bash, Magick Spells, Hide.


One example is brought up here:

That being said, does looking -at- someone provide an echo when hidden as it does when not?  Otherwise this would require ooc comunication to verify.  You know a faq on what does not break hide, and what echos are possible could prove useful.

Most commands are intuitive about whether or not they break your hide status.  I don't intend to go through a list of all commands and say yes/no, but I don't mind offering help on the confusing ones like change and watch. An idea you might suggest is having the game echo when you issue a command that breaks your hiding status.  I'm not sure I'd support the idea since I haven't thought it through, but I do think it achieves the same effect as a faq while being far easier to use.

Since WHAT BREAKS MY HIDDEN STATUS is frequently talked about...  ( http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,2243.0.html | http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,7763.msg74847.html#msg74847 ) ... I would like there to be a better list as to what 'breaks' it.  And I would rather have it echo in the game than inside a help file.

However, an Echo would be awesome until I get sick and tired of reading it.  So that's why I would like to have to toggle-able.

And since there are other code issues that may seem ambiguous, perhaps the helper flag could extend to that.

You could have an echo say, 'Skinning a body will remove the body item from the game'.

Or 'Type 'stop' to stop the attempt to steal'

Perhaps you can subclass the helper flag into different areas - Rogue / Outdoors / Fighting / Crafting

You could have a crafting help message say, 'Crafting may take up to a minute or longer. Perhaps use Emote to explain your actions in greater personal detail?'

[Folker]

I like the idea, but cant see an easy way to impliment something like this. Usually these little things, that you find out that you would've loved to know, come to mind only after the fact. I cant imagine someone cooking up an ability and writing up those descriptions via simple foresight.

[mansa]

I'll write them for every case.

[Agent_137]

no way, mansa, user education while they play? No! No! Make them read the damn docs like EVERYONE else has.

just because it's worked for getting people comfortable with every new game they play on consoles and PCs since the playstation era doesn't mean a similar concept would work for us.

absolutely not.

*edited for typoing "era" into "area"

[Maybe42or54]

I can't really understand what you are trying to say, could you show me an example?

[staggerlee]

I think he's picturing something like this:

Code Select Expand


>helper echo on
Okay!
>Skin corpse

'Skinning a body will remove the body item from the game, items acquired during the process will be placed in your inventory."

You begin skinning the corpse...


As opposed to the current:

Code Select Expand


>skin corpse
You begin skinning the corpse...


I think it's a good idea, it'd be really helpful for new players. Or even old players trying out a coded role they've never played with before.  It would have to be something you could toggle off though, as suggested.

[mansa]

staggerlee's got it exactly.

Code Select Expand


>helper rogue
You will now get additional information for every rogue action.

>hide
You begin to look for a place to hide.

"The default long description is '<sdesc> is hiding here.'"

You start hiding.

>watch templar
"The watch command makes you step out of hiding."

You begin watching the tall, muscular templar.

>helper rogue
You will stop receiving additional information about rogue actions.


[Maybe42or54]

Count me in then. There are still occasions when I would use this code if it was in right now.

[RogueGunslinger]

That sounds like a lot of work to implement. It's kinda neat, but I wouldn't ever use it. So I endorse the ability to turn it on and off.

[mansa]

I mean, we could just re-write all the help files...

People should know when certain coded actions change their long description without telling them...

And that's just one example of the code doing stuff to your roleplay without telling you it did.

[a strange shadow]

Slight tangent, but...

>watch templar
"The watch command makes you step out of hiding."

AFAIK, this is no longer the case.


I like the idea of toggleable commands.

[Belenos]

Although nothing is impossible, this approach is highly unlikely.  Considering that fact that we have/will have the following methods to find out how to use commands:

• help <command> - Will display a detailed help file.
• syntax <command> - Will display the syntax usage.
• Web based documentation - Lots and lots of detailed information.

There are plenty of ways that even the most neophyte of players can figure out commands.  A WoW'ish approach is not necessary.  The staff time would be better served in other ways than duplicating information easily obtainable.

[mansa]

Belenos,

Do you think that there is something missing in describing what commands do to the players?

[Belenos]

Belenos,

Do you think that there is something missing in describing what commands do to the players?

This question is rather on the vague/open ended side.  You'll need to elaborate.

[mansa]

Belenos,

Do you think that there is something missing in describing what commands do to the players?

This question is rather on the vague/open ended side.  You'll need to elaborate.

I believe that there is information missing from the helpfiles.

Some examples might be when commands change your long description.

If a command changes your long description, does it only change the 'automatic' long description, or does it also change the user defined long description?

An example would be:
I'm standing against a wall.  My long description is set by me, the player, to be 'change ldesc is leaning here, against a wall'.

I end up sparring someone in the room.

Does my long description change to be - is fighting the tall muscular man - or does my long description remain to be 'is leaning here, against a wall' ?

If I set my long description to be 'is leaning here, against a wall' and I successfully hide, does it change my long description to be 'is hiding here' or does it remain as my user-selected long description.


I guess the 'long description' problem could be changed if we were able to see what our long descriptions are...


Another issue is whether commands 'break' our hidden status.  Does contacting someone break hide?  Does typing 'score' ?  Does typing 'look self' ?  'Eq'?  Watch?  Stand?

Since we don't know if we are hidden or not, we also don't know if typing 'score' automatically breaks hide and makes us visible.  The only way to find out is to ask someone.


I think that there are some things that happen when we type commands into the system that we don't know happens.   Questions like - How does this affect what my character looks like at this moment in time - or - How does this affect the item I'm interacting with if I fail or not?

Can I still use this body of a creature I just killed -AFTER- I skinned it successfully?  Can I interact with it as an item or does it disappear?

That's what I'm trying to get at..  I hope that clears up the confusion and vagueness.

[Belenos]

In those cases the help files would need to be fleshed out further.  Adding another layer of help prompts would not solve the problems as stated.  In truth they would be a take away, as resources would have to be taken from fleshing out existing help commands to create a new set of documentation, which would also have to be maintained.

I want to make a point, keeping documentation up to date is not a one time task, it is an ongoing thing.  There will always be omissions and things yet to be done.   This is an all volunteer organization, we do what we can to keep up with the expectations and demands, and will continue to do so.  Documentation is one of those items that tends to be rather tedious and gets worked on when people have the time and inclination to do so.  The documentation will improve as time goes on.

[mansa]

If I feel that a help file is not fleshed out enough...

Where can I send that information to?

Would you want me to re-write the whole help file, or just give the little extra bit of information?

Will the new game use all the same help files as before?

[Adhira]

Since the new game will not be using Diku, and the setting will be different the helpfiles, logically, will also be different.

It's entirely possible that we will solicit submissions for some of the helpfiles at a later date. We'll post that in the Armageddon Reborn Submissions forum should that come to pass.

[Agent_137]

I would totally help out on this. One easy way to get player help on it from me and others would be to just give us a form I can submit suggestions on it to.

it'd look like this:

Action: ___________
Helper Echo: ____________
*submit button*

Then all that would have to be built for this would be a form, all the thinking could come from players. Maybe only give the link out to the helpers if you don't want it to open it to everyone.

[Maybe42or54]

Or add the form to the Submit a Request feature and it only works for the accounts that are flagged as helpers.