Roleplaying Peeves

[Lizzie]

RP pet peeve: when someone intentionally makes his characters speak SO badly that you can't understand any of it, and it might as well be a completely different coded language (I mean when the character speaks the same language you do, naturally).

One thing in particular...replacing random letters in words with an apostrophe, without even considering that a word can't be pronounced in any way that the "listener" should ever be expected to understand. Example:

H'woul't s'e 'issel' for'ah 'to' 'at'e 's"

is SUPPOSED to translate to

He wouldn't see hisself for the gortok that he is

how, exactly? And does the player of that character accept that ICly, no one understands him, and OOCly, he is making it very difficult and frustrating to RP with him?

RP pet peeve: when someone who is obviously -not- a newbie, is so slow to respond, that you find it easier to just not RP with him because you're missing out on all the fun of the game that everyone else is enjoying. Example:
While on your trusty steed, "So, will you be coming with me? You need to decide now, since it will be dark soon."
(wait..
wait for it now..
wait..
not yet..
almost..
45 seconds..still not yet..
1.5 minutes..almost...)
2 full minutes later:

Nodding to you, the tall dark man says, "Yeah."
and 2 full minutes later, the tall dark man actually types "follow girl."

You finally get out, it turns dusk, you get to the resting spot and rest your trusty steed, and the tall dark man just remains where he is, on his mount. You remind him that he needs to rest and...2 full minutes later, he nods and says "Yeah." Two full minutes after that, he rests his mount. At which point, it's dawn and time to get going again. Except HIS mount is too tired and you now have to wait til late morning to continue the ride - 20 minutes of your own playing time wasted, because this guy just doesn't seem to be paying any attention to the game.

[mansa]

I dislike being manipulated by powerful NPCs that can do things that are impossible for PCs to do, codedly.

[X-D]

Mansa

I dislike being manipulated by powerful NPCs that can do things that are impossible for PCs to do, codedly.

I will second this peeve...and third.

[Zendri]

RP pet peeve: when someone intentionally makes his characters speak SO badly that you can't understand any of it, and it might as well be a completely different coded language (I mean when the character speaks the same language you do, naturally).

I do this with my current character, and I fail to see how this is a problem.

And does the player of that character accept that ICly, no one understands him, and OOCly, he is making it very difficult and frustrating to RP with him?

Yep.  My character is a fast talking mumbler.  I do it intentionally, in the hopes that people won't understand him, and I anticipate that from time to time, people will get confused.  They do, and it's all in good fun.
 
I do, however, put a lot of thought into dropping the appropriate letters and having a consistant mumble, rather than just dropping random ones.

[Barzalene]

I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth.  

I feel guilty.

All my characters speak as if they just moved from the Atrium, I think.

Mostly because my English sucks and I can't use any slang. I even OOCly have troubles to -understand- rinthers sometime.

I think that the underclass while not always grammatically correct can be quite eloquent.

[Eternal]

When people feel like they need to go OOC to correct a mispelled word that MOST anyone can tell was mispelled on accident.

Even worse, when players use OOC to correct -ANOTHER- player's 'grene'.

[Dalmeth]

I do this with my current character, and I fail to see how this is a problem.

The problem comes when by omitting the a letter with an accent, you spell a word with an entirely different pronunciation.  If you make an accent, you're going to have to spell certain words differently, not simply omit letters.  The fact is the spoken accent doesn't really omit the sound of the letter, it merely softens it to the point where it can be barely recognized by someone speaking a different accent.  That's why a language spoken two different ways is still written the same.

[Lizzie]

Zenri, wha' I' referri' to i' the ki' o' "roleplayi' talki'" whe' the playe' thi' tha' removi' any consone' fro' the e' o' wo' i' a' understanda' "acce'." I' i' a' acce', i' no' eve' a' tha' simila' to a spee' impedime'.

A' i' i', i' annoyi' a' he'.





Zendri, what I'm referring to is the kind of "roleplaying talking" where the player thinks that removing any consonents from the end of words is an understandable "accent." It isn't an accent, it's not even all that similar to a speech impediment.

All it is, is annoying as hell.

[Zendri]

If you make an accent, you're going to have to spell certain words differently, not simply omit letters.

I disagree.  In the case of my character, it's not that he pronounces words differently, it's that he does omit the sound of the letter.

For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't".  I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that."  Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing.  I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded.  I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that".  He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.

Zendri, what I'm referring to is the kind of "roleplaying talking" where the player thinks that removing any consonents from the end of words is an understandable "accent." It isn't an accent, it's not even all that similar to a speech impediment.

All it is, is annoying as hell.

As I said, I put a lot of thought into my character's speech pattern; I don't just randomly drop letters.  There have been plenty of times where I dropped more letters than I included, but there's a very set pattern to what I do or don't drop - I don't just do it because I like the look of apostrophes.  My hope is that most people will initially see my character's speech and think, "What the hell?" and not understand it - that's the intent, and if you're annoyed by it?  Talk to a non-native English speaker with a heavy accent and see if you don't get annoyed with them, too - but I hope those who spend any amount of time around him will pick up the pattern and easily fill in the blanks.

Has it worked out that way?  I don't know.  Maybe someone who has played with my PC will chime in.  But I can tell you that on more than one occasion, I've encountered PC's with well-written English that have quickly adopted my PC's mumbling slur.

[Rhyden]

I do the whole...

Code Select Expand

say What th'feck are y'talkin' 'bout y'stupid krath-damned i'dit!"

...because it's cooler than being a grammatically correct nerd.

[jhunter]

I have no problem with made up accents at all. In fact, I rather enjoy them provided the person keeps consistent in the character's speech patterns/pronunciation/etc.
I've interacted with some very good ones who I could barely understand at first, over in game years around them I could understand the character without a second thought. That's pretty damned realistic and adds alot of flavor IMO.

[Dalmeth]

Code Select Expand

say What th'feck are y'talkin' 'bout y'stupid krath-damned i'dit!"

This is fine.  What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :

Code Select Expand

say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.

It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word.  Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation.  That is where the problem lies.  Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.

For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't". I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that." Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing. I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded. I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that". He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.

The fact of the matter is, as far as pronunciation is concerned, "can," and "can'," are the same words.  You aren't portraying someone with an accent, you're portraying someone who hasn't learned the language and apparently suffers from seriously faulty logic.

The reason why people make up their own words is because they're writing to approximate a sound.  "Kinnae," is the mashing of "can," and "nae."  That's actually getting closer to the mumbling portrayed in the clip you posted.  The fellow is hard to keep up with because he speaks fast and mashes his words together, not because he omits specific letters.  You're applying rules for a spoken accent onto a written platform.  It doesn't work.  Period.

I love accents for their sound.  They add flavor to the words.  However, when it can't be pronounced, I get nothing.  It's just words poorly spelled.

[Relleu]

Play nice, please.  No using this thread as an excuse to criticize another poster's presumed play when they disagree on a small point.

[Briarfox]

Impossible to pronounce/remember/excessively long names.

[Rhyden]

This is fine.  What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :

Code Select Expand

say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.

It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word.  Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation.  That is where the problem lies.  Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.

Very true.

But I've never seen anything as terrible as this.

Code Select Expand

say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.

And if I did, I'd just assume they have a speech impediment/really thick accent. If they aren't consistent with a single general accent style, give them a player complaint. But like I said, I've never seen it that bad before and I don't think it's really a big deal.

[Zendri]

This is fine.  What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :

Code Select Expand

say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.

Er, what?  Where did I say that?  My character's speech goes something like this:

Li'l miss muffe' sat'n a tuffe', eatin'er curds'n whey.  Along came a spi'er't sa'down beside'r, an' scared li'l miss muffe' away!

As I've said twice before, there's a lot of thought behind it.  Clearly, he's dropping hard sounds and mashing words together, pinning one word, or part of one word, onto the next if the syllables match up.  Anyone can figure that out, and I don't think it's too hard to interpret - hopefully everyone is familiar enough with that nursery rhyme that there were no stumbling blocks.  Does it require some thought to interpret?  Yeah.  Can I excessively abuse it if there are lots of hard sounds or unexpected words?  Oh, you betcha.  Ask my character about his gythka staff sometime...

It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word.  Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation.  That is where the problem lies.  Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.

Ah, we have a winner.  See, what we're actually talking about is pronunciation.  Accents, I would argue, are handled by the coded "rinthi accent" and "northern-accented" flags of the game, and I do try and represent this with my character: when he's speaking in a 'rinthi accent, my character speaks in what I consider to be a slimier, more roguish tone.  In his native tongue, he speaks much more quickly and slurred, with a different set of words and all-around lazy pronunciation.  

For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't". I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that." Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing. I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded. I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that". He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.

The fact of the matter is, as far as pronunciation is concerned, "can," and "can'," are the same words.

You're applying rules for a spoken accent onto a written platform.  It doesn't work.  Period.

Actually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform.  Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar.  On the other hand...

The apostrophe ( '  or  ' ) is a punctuation mark, and sometimes a diacritic mark, in languages written in the Latin alphabet. In English, it has two main functions: it marks omissions...

It's common practice to use an apostrophe to omit letters.  Can't you see that?  Didn't you cover that in school?

If you're paying attention, you the player will see the apostrophe at the end, indicating that part of the word has been removed.  So unless you're blind and playing via a reader, you, the player, knows that there's something missing from my character's speech in an entirely text-based game.  Is there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium?  You better believe it - if you don't, go take an composition class, or read this poem, and try to understand that the written word and the rules of grammar are flexible enough to allow creativity.

If you want to argue about how you, the player, pronounce words, in English, well... that's a completely different and irrelevant discussion.  Last time I checked, we aren't all voice actors, we don't speak an imaginary language, and we don't play Arm using a mic and a headset.  And I'll be happy to argue with you about whether or not "can" and "can'" are pronounced different in spoken English another time.

The reason why people make up their own words is because they're writing to approximate a sound.  "Kinnae," is the mashing of "can," and "nae."  That's actually getting closer to the mumbling portrayed in the clip you posted.  The fellow is hard to keep up with because he speaks fast and mashes his words together, not because he omits specific letters.

in English[/i], in the aforementioned clip"]
"I'll flip ya.  I'll flip ya for real!"

and

"What the fuck."

We'll have to agree to disagree, here.

I think this is better written as, "I'll flip ya.  I'll flip ya f'real!" and "Wha'the fuck." than "I'll flipa ya.  I'll flipa ya fah reel!" and "Wha da faahk."   I also think my version is easier to read than the made-up-word lolcats version.

I'd rather see:

Wha' th'fuck are y'talkin' abou' y'fuckin' idio'?

than

Woot yar tooking arbot yar fooking ijit"

Wouldn't you?  It's an interesting and worthwhile discussion (though probably better off in another thread), but try and keep the attitude out of it.  Thanks.

[Angela Christine]

Since we're being peevish, one of mine is when people confuse weary and wary, or wearily and warily.

Weary = tired
Wary = cautious

The manly man wearily slumps down onto a cot and pulls his boots off.  

- This guy seems pretty tired, maybe he has had a long day.

The manly man warily slumps down onto a cot and pulls his boots off.

-  This guy seems kind of paranoid.  Maybe his room mates like to pull practical jokes?  :lol:

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Along that line, people who use 'bemused' to mean the word amused instead of to mean lost in thought, confused, or bewildered.

[Dalmeth]

Ah, we have a winner.  See, what we're actually talking about is pronunciation.  Accents, I would argue, are handled by the coded "rinthi accent" and "northern-accented" flags of the game, and I do try and represent this with my character: when he's speaking in a 'rinthi accent, my character speaks in what I consider to be a slimier, more roguish tone.  In his native tongue, he speaks much more quickly and slurred, with a different set of words and all-around lazy pronunciation.

The problem comes with the fact that we have no agreed upon system for what's considered "slimy," and "roguish."  For the most part, the example you gave me is fine by my tastes.  The "can," example rather set me off.

Actually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform.  Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar.  On the other hand...

Actually, you're using writing to represent speaking.  If your character learned how to write, would you still be using the same rules for the accent?

It's common practice to use an apostrophe to omit letters.  Can't you see that?  Didn't you cover that in school?

Yes, I know about apostrophes.  When using them in my own character's accents, I always try to preserve the sound of whatever vowel is being omitted.  I use that because no consonant can be pronounced without a vowel sound.

Is there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium?

Technically, no.  However, in a game where time is a sensitive issue, keeping a lookout for an apostrophe is an annoyance.  This is a thread about peeves.  It seems reasonable for me to voice my annoyance at such things.

You better believe it - if you don't, go take an composition class, or read this poem, and try to understand that the written word and the rules of grammar are flexible enough to allow creativity.

English is a very flexible language.  That's a large reason why foreign speakers tend to have a difficult time learning it.  However, there is a point where you just become incomprehensible.  That poem is art, meant to be interpreted at one's leisure.  It isn't direct, on the spot communication.

And I'll be happy to argue with you about whether or not "can" and "can'" are pronounced different in spoken English another time.

I'm sure they are pronounced differently in English.  However, I'd need you to tell me the rules of pronunciation.  I can't really get that in the middle of the game.

I think this is better written as, "I'll flip ya.  I'll flip ya f'real!" and "Wha'the fuck." than "I'll flipa ya.  I'll flipa ya fah reel!" and "Wha da faahk."   I also think my version is easier to read than the made-up-word lolcats version.

I'd rather see:

Wha' th'fuck are y'talkin' abou' y'fuckin' idio'?

than

Woot yar tooking arbot yar fooking ijit"

Wouldn't you?

I find both to be equally acceptable.

It's an interesting and worthwhile discussion (though probably better off in another thread), but try and keep the attitude out of it.  Thanks.

We're both unleashing a little bit of attitude.  I don't mind it too much.  Do you?

[a strange shadow]

I'm suddenly reminded of a pit bull latching on to someone's ankle and refusing to back down.

Peeve: The GDB

[Zendri]

Yarlly.

Peeve:  People that follow hooded people around until they can fire off that "look hooded"

Also, people who feel the need to stop what they're doing and look at every newcomer they don't recognize that enters the room.

[Nao]

Did anyone ever read trainspotting?

And yes, accents aren't all that different from the main language, but dialects  are. Including words that don't even show up in the pure form of the language.

[psionic fungus]

The problem comes with the fact that we have no agreed upon system for what's considered "slimy," and "roguish." For the most part, the example you gave me is fine by my tastes. The "can," example rather set me off.

Do people IRL have an agreed upon system of what is considered "slimy" or "roguish"?  I can go down to any number of parks here in town and start up a conversation with some crusty street-kids.  In doing so, I will inevitably encounter a fairly wide range of pronunciations, accents, and slang.  Is there something wrong with this?  I don't see why an elf and a dwarf, simply because they both live in the rinth, would speak in the same manner.

Actually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform. Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar. On the other hand...

Actually, you're using writing to represent speaking. If your character learned how to write, would you still be using the same rules for the accent?

What Zendri said was entirely accurate.  We all use the rules of written English, because we are expressing ourselves on a written platform.  Yes, the -character- speaks, but the speech is represented by text.  The same rules would apply for a literate character and an illiterate character, as well as a well-spoken or a poorly-spoken one.  This is because these rules are completely OOC rules of the English language.  A well-spoken character will undoubtedly use 'better' English, but the rules of writing that English will remain the same.

Yes, I know about apostrophes. When using them in my own character's accents, I always try to preserve the sound of whatever vowel is being omitted. I use that because no consonant can be pronounced without a vowel sound.

While a consonant cannot be pronounced without a vowel sound, those sounds are part of the phonetics of the consonants.  "T" says "Tuh", and according to my resident five-year old and his LeapPad Learning Center, it doesn't require any vowel to make that sound.  English is not a consistently phonetically spelled language.  When I say "Can't" I do -not- pronounce the "O" sound in "cannot".  That's the point of the apostrophe.  It is used (in these circumstances) to represent dropped letters, and sounds, in spoken language.

Now, I don' be knowin' w'th'fuck kinda bullshit y'be talkin' 'bout wit' 'is nonsense 'bout "preservin' th'sound'f th'vowel".

As you can plainly see, the apostrophe is used to drop both vowels -and- consonants.  They are dropped because the sound is not to be pronounced.  This is the way English works.  I vastly prefer using this convention of the English language to phonetic spelling, which would appear something like this:

Naw, ehyee dunn bee nawen wha tha fuk kuhnda bhaull sheet yah bee tahlkeen bout wit iss nonsense bout prahsuhrven tha sounduff tha vowel.

Now that is some ugly, hard to read bullshit, and a definite peeve of mine. The use of apostrophes to represent pronunciation is both the most understandable way to accomplish this and the grammatically approved method.

Is there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium?

Technically, no. However, in a game where time is a sensitive issue, keeping a lookout for an apostrophe is an annoyance. This is a thread about peeves. It seems reasonable for me to voice my annoyance at such things.

Technically, yes.  There is an extra apostrophe which lets the reader know that there is some suppressed sound at the end of the word.  We could write it as "canno'" (simply dropping the "T" sound from "cannot", since it is no longer really a contraction) Another way to write this could be "can nuh", using the LOLCATS unofficial intarwebz rules of English (also known as phonetic spelling).

I personally find using grammatically "correct" English to be the least offensive way to represent poor pronunciation.

However, there is a point where you just become incomprehensible.

Ever talk to a Cajun?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Sadly, he has a point with Cajuns. He, forever, forgot to mention serious, redneck, country-bred Southerners.

Yeegads.

"Ah'ad meh uhnna'em go'damt ol' deer'untin' rifles, up'nna tree 'bout twenny, thurrty feet up inna air, in onna'em ol' 'untin'screens. I sighted on'at go'damt summabitch an'lew s'go'damt head clean off."

[Maybe42or54]

Key thing I use Ig. Phonetics. If I'm cutting off pieces of a word, I'm going to make the rest of the word sound just like it is spelled. Some people still hate me for that one pc...