Roleplaying Peeves

[joyofdiscord]

Regarding "can't" and "can," it's both realistic and highly accurate to drop the T in "can't."  In fact, most of the time the T isn't actually pronounced.  Say the phrase "I can't go."  If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound.  Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either.  Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound.  If, on the other hand, you pronounce the phrase "I can't eat," you will see that there is, indeed, an articulated T sound.

The reason we never confuse "can' " and "can" in real life, apart from the wonders of context, is primarily because the A is pronounced differently in these two words.  The presence of the "T" phoneme on the end changes the pronunciation of the vowel before it, even if the T is never actually pronounced.

Just thought this might be an interesting tidbit.  Up with confusing, elaborate accents!

[Lizzie]

The problem with all that joyofdiscord, is that when people actually speak out loud, the listener can actually hear the sound that each word is making. Anyone of reasonable hearing is able to tell that their friend is saying "I can't go" rather than "I can go." A doctor, checking on his bladder surgery patient, can also hear the difference between can and can't, in that context. The words are pronounced differently and that difference is audible.

In text, there is no difference between can and can. They are the exact same three letters, placed in the exact same order and mean the exact same thing. So if you want your reader to know your character means "is unable to" do something...then let the reader know. If you want to be intentionally vague, instead of confusing the reader, why not just try coming up with a different way of being vague?

"Well damn, we could go, but..." letting her sentence trail off as her gaze wanders toward the ceiling.

See? You've just completely confused the CHARACTER your character is talking to, without befuddling the reader in the slightest.

[psionic fungus]

Say the phrase "I can't go." If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound. Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either. Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound.

I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly.  I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."

Speak for yourself, perhaps?

The only way I can imagine -not- articulating the "T" -and- "N" sound in "can't" is with some gibberish like this:

"Ca'go!  Jus'ran'a for'ee an'm reee'ly 'runk!"

The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat...  This is not the standard mode of English speech.  I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly enunciated.



Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"?  This concept frightens me.

[Aquarian]

Say the phrase "I can't go." If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound. Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either. Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound.

I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly.  I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."

Speak for yourself, perhaps?

The only way I can imagine -not- articulating the "T" -and- "N" sound in "can't" is with some gibberish like this:

"Ca'go!  Jus'ran'a for'ee an'm reee'ly 'runk!"

The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat...  This is not the standard mode of English speech.  I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly annunciated.



Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"?  This concept frightens me.

I'm not 100% sure, but, I'm thinking maybe Joy is from europe, where they -do- seem to leave out -t- sounds.

[Medena]

...I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly.  I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."

...

The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat...  This is not the standard mode of English speech.  I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly annunciated.

 
Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"?  This concept frightens me.

Every region probably has its own slight variations.  For example, up here where I live, we say "enunciated".

[psionic fungus]

For example, up here where I live, we say "enunciated".

Thanks for being a member of my favorite group of people, smart-asses.  To be absolutely clear though, my being a dumb-ass and using the wrong word is not a pronunciation error.

All fixed now.

I'm not 100% sure, but, I'm thinking maybe Joy is from europe, where they -do- seem to leave out -t- sounds.

With "can't" and similar contractions, I think it is less a matter of dropping the "T" in "can't" and more a matter of dropping the "T" sound from "cannot".  Because with this type of accent the "O" often -is- enunciated, I think it is more appropriate to write it as "canno'" than "can'" or "can't", whether it is pronounced ka-NUH or ka-NO.

Giving it some more thought, it seems that -some- dialects probably distinguish the difference between "can" and "can't" by pronouncing the the "A" as either long or short... Making "can't" sounds like "con" or "caun" or something.  Still, this is definitely not the majority of English speaking persons, most pronounce both the "N" and the "T" in "can't" whether the "A" is long or short... "cannot", however, might be a different story.

And could someone please tell me why I'm still posting about this, at 1:30am?

Oh yeah... I can't sleep and I'm bored.  Never mind.

[Majikal]

wtf.



























nuff said.

[psionic fungus]

On the contrary... I'm confused.

Please elaborate?


Also:

My current peeve is not being able to play because my computer died, and the mud client I loaded on this machine parses input in a mysterious and (seemingly) random way, preventing half of my "says", "thinks", "emotes", etc. from ever reaching the game.

[Armaddict]

I dunno, fungus.  I think what joyofdiscord may be talking about is the crisp sound of 'T' that -is- actually left out a lot.

Most people, when saying the word 'mountain', do not CRISPLY pronounce that letter.  Because of it's placement, the break in syllables ends up...'blurring' the sound of the 't', for lack of a better description at this moment.

It's still pronounced, just not with the usual sharp 't' sound.  Whether or not you say 'mountain' or the ever more popular 'moun'ain', it is actually more common than one would think.  I give people shit about this all the time, heh.

[NoteworthyFellow]

I dunno, fungus.  I think what joyofdiscord may be talking about is the crisp sound of 'T' that -is- actually left out a lot.

Most people, when saying the word 'mountain', do not CRISPLY pronounce that letter.  Because of it's placement, the break in syllables ends up...'blurring' the sound of the 't', for lack of a better description at this moment.

It's still pronounced, just not with the usual sharp 't' sound.  Whether or not you say 'mountain' or the ever more popular 'moun'ain', it is actually more common than one would think.  I give people shit about this all the time, heh.

I've come to call that a "stop t," and damned if I know why.  It's very common in spoken English--the "t" sound is pronounced, it's just not with the usual plosive sound, it's more imploded.  To someone who doesn't know English very well, it'd sound like it wasn't there at all, but it is, because it changes the sound of the consonants and vowels around it, and there's just a little silence that indicates its presence.

[psionic fungus]

As I said...

Where I was raised, -and- where I live, most people speak properly.  When I say "properly", I mean the way the dictionary pronounces.

When I say "mountain" I rarely say "moun'in".  There is a fucking "T" in that word, and it isn't silent.  I don't say "hun'in'", "lib'ary", or "amb'LEE'ence" either, because I'm not a fucking red-neck.

It truly frightens me to hear (more than one person express) that speaking English properly is somehow uncommon and makes me a minority.

I -should- know this from my phone job, but I think I have willfully disbelieved it for years, hoping that it was an issue with the areas we call, or the Republican constituents we talk to.  Can't the fucking public education system even teach people to speak properly?

There is no hope.

[Eternal]

When I say "mountain" I rarely say "moun'in".  There is a fucking "T" in that word, and it isn't silent.  I don't say "hun'in'", "lib'ary", or "amb'LEE'ence" either, because I'm not a fucking red-neck.

As a red-neck, I think I am offended by this.
Beyond that, I doubt you pronounce the same word as someone who lives in London, Boston, New York, Wales, or Dublin (Ireland).  Dialects vary and each of them is the 'correct' method.  I once nearly failed a paper in Canada due to not using the letter u in my 'favourites and colours' (Prick of a tenured profess'eur').

Also, you likely do skip over letters that don't fit your dialect.  In the 'generic middle-region' accent, an example would be the U and L in 'would', pronounced 'wood' by many American Anglophones.

[Vessol]

If I may dare say so, SoI had this fairly good way to set a tone on your voice I forgot the command though, it was useful along with the short non-permanent desc. while moving.

[Stroker]

Dialects vary and each of them is the 'correct' method.

Shut up, asshole. Clearly, PF knows the proper way to speak.

[Barzalene]

If I may dare say so, SoI had this fairly good way to set a tone on your voice I forgot the command though, it was useful along with the short non-permanent desc. while moving.

Ugh. I hated the talking walking echoes on SoI....
She said silkily.

[Ashes]

Back to roleplaying peeves:

Twinks.

Twinks who never emote.

Twinks who never do anything other than "say, sit, s, stand," and "kill scrab."

[Angela Christine]

Twinks who never do anything other than "say, sit, s, stand," and "kill scrab."

Don't worry, if that is all they do, then they are doomed to eventually walk into the silt sea and suffocate.  Stupid south walking twinks!

[Cutthroat]

New odd urge: make a ranger that never buys a weapon and just walks south hunting scrab until he dies or walks into the silt sea, sitting occasionally to get back his hp and standing to continue. Also, he will talk to himself when he's not busy.

[Ashes]

Yes.

[psionic fungus]

Uppity damn rednecks.

Wood you like some cheese with your whine?

I may not always speak with proper enunciation, but I don't go around claiming it is the 'correct' way to speak.  There are only one or two correct ways to pronounce most words.  They're spelled out phonetically in most dictionaries. The ones with pronunciation guides.  If you can't read the phonetic spellings, there are dictionaries like www.m-w.com that have audio samples of correct pronunciations.

I might get lax with my "UL" sound from time to time, but I'm not going around proclaiming my speech impediment is the way the "majority" of English speakers pronounce things. "Can't" has a "T" sound, that's why the letter is included in the contraction.

Uh...




PEEVES:

Players who make my character feel things (or fucking do things) with their emotes (power-emoters).

Players who make my character feel things and/or psychically bestow knowledge on my character when he looks at them (power-describers).

Characters who die immediately after being recruited, gifted, or somehow involved in a plot.

Your mom.

[Reiloth]

I again love you all for what you are, and what you are not. ACCEPT THE LOVE INTO YOUR HEART OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU.

[Eternal]

I love the depth of conversation coming from this thread.  I was tempted to abandon it after the last 'I'm right, u r retard' style post, but feel the need to address the dictionary issue.  M-W.com has examples of the sounds of words, the dictionary's sounds are worthless in any part of the world where the dictionary's writer did not originate.  That is one of the largest problems of dictionaries (and anyone who attempts to make the mutable become immutable): they only reflect the definition and linguistic ability of the writer(s).  There are dictionaries published in other 'English-speaking' parts of the world that are full of local brogue, and the oxford dictionary lists many pronunciations not to be found in mirriam webster editions.

What bothers me more than the short-sighted and argumentative comments, is the way that some on this board have chosen to phrase them.  Personal insults say an awful lot about the poster and their inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in a discussion.

This is to be a thread about roleplay peeves, there is no need for personal attacks or other such inane foolishness.  If you feel the need to make insults, please keep it to PMs where it does not interfere with discussion.

[psionic fungus]

That is one of the largest problems of dictionaries (and anyone who attempts to make the mutable become immutable): they only reflect the definition and linguistic ability of the writer(s). There are dictionaries published in other 'English-speaking' parts of the world that are full of local brogue, and the oxford dictionary lists many pronunciations not to be found in mirriam webster editions.

Sorry... OED subscription is too expensive for me, and my free trial ran out.

An unabridged dictionary is ideal, yes...  And most dictionaries with local pronunciations make mention of the dialectic nature of such pronunciations, preferably with etymology.  But... No.  I still refuse to accept that it is 'proper' English to say "can't" with no "T" sound.  That letter ain' silent.

What bothers me more than the short-sighted and argumentative comments, is the way that some on this board have chosen to phrase them. Personal insults say an awful lot about the poster and their inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in a discussion.

This makes me laugh.  Worthwhile discussion?
I thought this was all about people being annoyed by written accents.

I may have an inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in -this- discussion, perhaps... I continue to participate simply because I find it absurd. Did you know that using eloquent words and innuendo doesn't make what you just said less of an insult?  Thanks for adding to the hate.

I've noticed that the tongue-in-cheek is often lost around here, but I post primarily to entertain myself.  Keep that in mind at all times, and I'm  sowwy if my redneck comments hurded your fewings.

And sorry to break the terrible truth to people who have heavy accents...
Every dialect is not "correct" or "proper" English.  It just isn't so...  If we embrace things like Ebonics, and other dialects, they will eventually become separate languages, like the romance tongues.

Whatev's.  You people are too uptight sometimes.

"I can't say what I want to... Even if I'm not serious..." -MJK

F'reelz.

[My 2 sids]

I guess I've only really had one pet-peeve....  when people confuse the concept of a harsh world with one of a hopeless-starile-hostle(for no reason)-world.

Amos doesn't always need to be a loner, without family, without dreams, without emotions...

[Stroker]

And sorry to break the terrible truth to people who have heavy accents...
Every dialect is not "correct" or "proper" English. It just isn't so... If we embrace things like Ebonics, and other dialects, they will eventually become separate languages, like the romance tongues.

Well, you know what else 'just isn't so'? YOUR FACE!