Re: Reminder about what your character knows and feels

[Coat of Arms]

There has been a increasing habit of straying from the documented reaction and relationships that create and maintain the environment that make this world what it is. In particular the attitude taken up by more and more folks to sorcerors, psionicists, and void elementalists. Secondarily the relationship to elementalists as a whole. Thirdly, the relationship to races. Please refresh yourselves with the documented attitudes that in general you shouldnt be the exception to, by reading the helpfiles and other information on the web site.

I think you'll find that, normally, the playerbase will agree. However, I believe that if we have become worse at presenting the... "documented reactions" toward such characters, it may have something to do with the fact that there are three times as many of them in the game lately as there were a year ago and prior. Everyone I know, myself included, have been meeting or otherwise encountering at least one (and usually many) of the above-mentioned characters with every single serious character since their numbers started shooting up sometime back in 2006. I recently had a character who knew three mindbenders, two undead characters, five or six elementalists and a nilazi. I do believe I had good reasons not to react according to a documentation that was written when there were probably a single-digit number of psionicists and sorcerers combined in the game at any time. The documentations also state that magick is rare, and I really don't think you can claim that it still is.

Discuss.

[Sokotra]

Yeah... I understand the staff announcement, but I was starting to think that what was happening was a bit IC.  Especially in certain areas where majick is becoming more common... in my obstructed view.  It's also hard not to lessen the "shock" of dealing with majickers when you've already been shocked nearly to death by past dealings with them.  Especially if it is with the same character.  Your character is either going to go hide under a rock and die or adapt somehow.  Or at least -pretend- to adapt to keep themself sane.

[WarriorPoet]

Go Dak.

Magickers and other arcane stuff aside, I've caught shit a number of times in the past few months for ripping on elves. I'm sure there are certain 'special' cases where IC circumstances justify sticking up for that goddamn skinny when my char rips into them, but it's gotten far too common for my tastes.

Screw tolerance.

-WP

[Nile]

Pff, I'll keep the hate for elves, 'rinthers, and other bits of scum alive....But I give up on magick. I'm choosing to completely ignore any plots with them now. If I see a magicker in the desert, I'm not interacting, I don't want ANYTHING to do with it.

Please give me a simple, mundane role where I don't run into hordes of teleporting magickers at every turn. Luckily I'm pretty far away from it all now

/drunkenrant

[Elgiva]

I would like to point out that however I understand why some feel there is no need to panic around visible magick because it's something far more common than usually, it's kind of annoying if your magicker of any kind casts a visible, frightening spell of doom and five of six people in the room just shrug it off.

[Riev]

You know, with my current character, there have been hardly a few characters that didn't turn, run, and cower when I was near them. I actually enjoy when I'm sitting there, doing my thing, and someone walks in and is scared of -me- for once.


That being said, I think people aren't so much -tolerating- magickers, as the sense of staying alive (which I believe was supposed to be prevalent) takes over for some of them, and they would rather tell any lie and befriend any magicker to further that end.

To take away people's willingness to live because you want them to RP correctly doesn't sound like a good story. If I'm out on North Road, and a sorceror starts messing with me, I will do -everything- I can to make sure I survive, and if that means becoming friends with this lonely outcast, I (OOC and IC) have no problem giving up my life to keep it.

[Sokotra]

That being said, I think people aren't so much -tolerating- magickers, as the sense of staying alive (which I believe was supposed to be prevalent) takes over for some of them, and they would rather tell any lie and befriend any magicker to further that end.

To take away people's willingness to live because you want them to RP correctly doesn't sound like a good story. If I'm out on North Road, and a sorceror starts messing with me, I will do -everything- I can to make sure I survive, and if that means becoming friends with this lonely outcast, I (OOC and IC) have no problem giving up my life to keep it.

Very true... and that doesn't necessarily mean that you like them or are "tolerating" them.  It just means you are trying to find a better way to deal with them that won't get a curse put directly on you.  

I'm all for the running and screaming and attacking out of fear or hatred... but it's not always the best way to RP the sitatuation where your character values their own life.  *shrug*

[Reiloth]

I've have come to terms with the fact that with the rise of coded power, room for roleplay has completely dropped off the face of the planet.

I recently came to realize, in horror, that the Tablelands, the Southlands, and the Northlands are all equally twinky. With the end of times, everyone wants to leave their mark, and none can cope with the fact that it cannot be done without garnering the most amount of coded power. Becoming the most powerful sorcerors, mindbenders and Magickers, instead of cobblers, bards, and burglars. Nilazi, Drovian, and Elkrosian representations of Gods on Earth, instead of housewives, prostitutes, and beggars.

With the end of the world, the only players are key players. The inbetweens have fallen to the waysides, and the flavor to Armageddon has all but perished. I am completely enthused with the fact that in 2.0, we will be starting fresh, because like a child that grows into its rebellious 'teenage' years, with Armageddon rolling around to its decade and a half point, its becoming a really annoying, pimply bitch that I just want to pop.

The enviroment of Armageddon 1.0 has completely topsy-turvied, and I don't even know it anymore. I don't recognize it.

It isn't the game I fell in love with, and I am not surprised that 90% of the player base has forgotten documentation even exists for elves, or for tribals, or for magickers. Its not about the roleplay.

Its about having some cool statue that you can jerk off to every time you pass it in 2.0. Its about killing some dude, so that your dude may leave a steaming pile of silver plated shit thats cursed for all eternity, so if some character in 2.0 tries to pick it up, their balls fall off.

Seriously, I wish we never knew about 1.0 closing until a month before 2.0's completely fleshed out release.

This is the harvest of what the staff sowed, many months ago. I think it is completely, 100% expected that the player base gives a little less of a shit about roleplaying, which is sad, because Arm is one of the only completely RPI Mud's thats tagline of "Deception, Murder, Betrayal" actually played out in game.

Show me an intricate plot line between an assassin, a lover, and a noble, and I will cry with joy. Show me that mugger in the labyrinth, holding up a prostitute or that same prostitute getting saved by some wacky vigilante who just ends up selling her to slavery. Show me the bard, writing songs about love and hapiness, when he is truly a depressed individual searching for meaning.

[Cegar]

Characters will stop acting like magick is common place in the game when it is again no longer common place.

One character can only be freaked out by a magicker so many times...

[Armaddict]

However, I believe that if we have become worse at presenting the... "documented reactions" toward such characters, it may have something to do with the fact that there are three times as many of them in the game lately as there were a year ago and prior.

I've said a couple times in threads about these topics that I think they actually kind of feed each other.  The balance for the power of magick has always been the hard time it was to get allies and the easy time it was to make enemies.

While I'm all for the fear and self-preservation approach...keep in mind that there's courage to be found in numbers, and a magicker who steadily harasses a populace, or becomes mistrusted by a group, may very well find themselves betrayed, mobbed, or reported.  Only the more powerful would likely be able to swerve a dedicated group away without some serious work to whittle away that group of meddlesome insects...and the more powerful will probably find themselves attracting attention from some they may not want it from.

Altogether...yes, things are skewed, but we don't need to go back to the whole 'there's too many' argument.  If people start playing the average joes and not the constant exceptions to the average joes, I really do think things will balance themselves out.

[Nile]

If people start playing the average joes and not the constant exceptions to the average joes, I really do think things will balance themselves out.

I agree. Getting them to play average joes is the problem.

[bardess]

In Tuluk right now, there must be some elven and human rapists on the loose because there are at LEAST six half-elves during the semi-peak time.  And some others have came and died.  

Also, for some reason, a LOT of newbies are playing northern half elves.  And when they are walking around asking about two-handed swords (to steal and example from someone else) it can be hard to ignore them (or whatever your particularly character would do).  I at least try to help out sometimes, though that surely isn't the root of the problem.

I know the past month or two has been tough for northern chars.  There's been an influx of elves, breeds, slaves, and southerners, so in my opinion, the only way to get some interaction would be to bend the rules a little.  I'll admit to that, no problem.  I try to follow the documentation as best I can but it gets to a certain point... it is a game, and the entertainment of the two involved is just as key as the atmosphere.

In short, I know where the concern comes from, but like the other players, I'm definitely seeing where it's coming from.

[Lizzie]

The staff member is entitled to ask that players remember and respect the documentation.

The players are entitled to point out that the documentation is obsolete, and to continue playing their characters as is appropriate to the *current* scheme of things. If you want people to treat magicks as if they were rare, make them rare. Otherwise, don't expect people to treat them as if they were rare. Because, they're not. Players have no control over how many magickers and psi are allowed in the game. Only the staff can approve or reject character apps, and only staff can call a moratorium on them until they are rare again.

Until then, I think it is a bit presumptuous of anyone, whether staff or player, to assume everyone is going to treat a *common presence* as a rarity.

Some characters might feel oppressed by it all.
Some might wish THEY could do all those neat things.
Some might not really care as long as the magicks aren't aimed at them.
Some might only have fear of certain types and not of others.
Some might be SO used to the commonality that they shrug it all off.
Some might shrug it all off, while at the same time be irritated by it.
Some might think they're all crazy mutants who would be better off dead, but since they can beat the shit out of me I'll keep my mouth shut and smile pretty at them.
Some might hate them.
Some might fear them all.
None should consider them rare, because they aren't. Meeting up with an average of 6 per RL day isn't "rare."

This is a far cry from the docs which imply we're all supposed to all have some measure of fear. But the docs were written during a time when magickers weren't casting spells within sight of the general populace, on major trade routes, in common gathering areas of non-magickers..etc. etc.

IC times have changed, and the docs really should change to reflect it.

[Alberic]

I'd just like to comment that I think it's funny that the mundane player base has been bitching constantly about the number of magickers and the only staff response is to tell the mundanes that they are the problem for not playing their mundanes right.

[brytta.leofa]

Most "experienced" southern characters (House employees, militia, etc., as opposed to Amos the Streetsweeper) seem to be quite tolerant of the gemmed right now.  I don't see how this is other than it should be...people who actually have occasion to interact with elementalists will begin to act more from experience and less from superstition.  If anything, the documentation would seem to suggest wider employment opportunities for gemmers than apparently exist.

If the staff think that gemmed interactions are out of kilter and feel up to posting some suggestions or guidelines more specific than those in the documentation, I, for one, would do my best to follow them.

[Hot_Dancer]

I didn't see anything about mundanes interacting incorrectly in the announcement, maybe it's the elementalists?

Anyways, any elves having troubles should touch up on Naephet and Kurano's Desert Elf Misconceptions post, it's available in the racial roleplay documentation.

[brytta.leofa]

I didn't see anything about mundanes interacting incorrectly in the announcement, maybe it's the elementalists?

I'll put this out there for critique: my assumption has been that an elementalist will, in general, post-gemming, want to continue in his or her original social status and interactions.  Fear of rejection or violence may eventually cause him to shy away from interaction with mundanes, but he'll likely want as much "normalcy" as he can get.

The tall, muscular man says, "Hullo there, Amos! What's happenin'? Where you been?"
The short, spindly man says, a note of caution in your voice, "Hey, Malik. Uh, I just learnt I can kill you wit' mah brain..."
The tall, muscular man peers at your dull black gem.

[a strange shadow]

One of the things I hope to see in Armageddon 2.0 is races and classes that have need(s) to interact with each other, as well as cultural traits that will naturally cause tension. Take, for example, the worship of a certain beast by one culture, and the belief that eating that same beast's heart gives you strength by another culture, give them reasons to depend on each other for trade (as an example of a need to interact), and presto, you have conflict.

That sort of thing would be preferable to the "everyone hates everyone" mentality that seems so prevalent in Armageddon 1.0, which actually stifles roleplay and interaction more than it promotes it.

[Alberic]

In particular the attitude taken up by more and more folks to sorcerors, psionicists, and void elementalists. Secondarily the relationship to elementalists as a whole.

emphasis added

Um....the statement is pretty clearly directed at mundanes interacting with magickers. Unless Dak is using folks to refer to magickers and mundanes in which case I would ask what the magickers are doing in their interactions with each other that is not right.

Don't be obtuse, this post is clearly directed at those of us who aren't playing walking tactical nukes. My point stands, months of complaints from the mundane players and the only staff response is to tell the mundanes that their role-play is wrong.

I'd also add that even though the docs say humans and elves mistrust each other etc. It also says we are supposed to be afraid of magickers right? When the only other mundane player around is an elf and you are a human what are you supposed to do? Can't interact with the magickers, can't interact with the mundanes. Guess we're all supposed to go live in caves or something. Maybe the reason there are so many half-elves is because they have a much better chance of being able to legitimantly interact with whoever they run into regardless of race.

[Bebop]

Aside from magickers:

I am getting personally really tired of people reacting to half elves and elves like they're actual people!  What the fuck, everyone knows those disgusting mudbloods look bad on us all.  And elves, those damn skinnies you can't trust a word that comes out of their mouths.

My first character got it on with all sorts of weirdos and everyone's immediate reaction around me was OMG WTF RU DOING!  I miss those days.  It gave way to some awesome drama and RP.  It was great.  Now everyone is not only cuddling around with half elves like they aren't the disgusting vermin that they are, I see northern and southern people getting along AFTER THE COPPER WAR.

I'm glad someone finally said it.  The whole world has changed it's like the docs don't even exist in some regards.

Back on the topic of magickers:

I am so so so so disappointed in magickers.  I played one -briefly- before I made my current character and I did shit like sit around and craft, hang out in Luir's and then maybe sometimes go hang out with my mount and cast and then muse about why people thought I was abomination.  No one knew, in fact I had some mundane friends.  I miss magicker's like Maurader Moe's and Larrath's old magickers the types that were deathly afraid about "coming out."  And then rejected and killed when they did.  I hate walking around and wondering if EVERYONE I meet is a magicker.  When I first started playing I can't remember EVER encountering a magicker outside of the gates in three months of playing.  Sure there were gemmers but magickers outside?  Rarely.  Then I saw it get a little more common and then bam!  Now it's like everyday I'm hearing not only about magickers IG but altered magicks that must require IMM approval, special app or interaction.  I'm not blaming the IMMs but when I'm sitting on my mundane ass in an empty tavern and then someone runs in telling me another horror story IG or OOC I have to wonder to myself... wtf?

Bring back mundanes FTW.

[/end rant]

[mansa]

Perhaps it's time to rethink how 'powerful' characters are applied for again.

[Hot_Dancer]

Considering magicker population, "more and more folks" can easily refer to interaction from elemantlist to elementalist, or elementalist to void elementalist, or elementalist to sorceror and psionicist.

[Clamach]

In my very personal, non-staff opinion:

The game needs more mundanity. A couple of years ago I would see elementalists killing each other to further themselves in relation to their element. I would see mundanes persue mundane goals, and I would see magickers persue goals related to their magick. I have to ask, where is the conflict now?

What are -you- doing Oh Antithesis to the -insert magicker type here-? Be you mundane or magicker, there are guidelines set out that are not being followed, or more importantly, left to the wayside for fear of retribution by other players. Gasp. There is a reason for the documented lines of mistrust, because if all the pices of the elemental -and- mundane puzzle work together you are effectively creating an unstoppable killing machine that was never intended to exist.

My solution to the percieved problems?

Pretend the game is not ending soon.
Respect and follow the documentation.
Quit powergaming.

[Alberic]

So then the staff has a problem because the magickers aren't properly roleplaying their fear of each other? But how can magickers not be roleplaying properly? After all, everyone with karma is a great roleplayer who can be trusted with powerful roles or has had their special app carefully reviewed and approved because of their history of consistantly good rp. That's the whole basis of the karma system by my understanding.

Also, where in the docs does it describe magicker-magicker interactions in any detail? After all, the post is about people not playing by the docs. So if their post really is targeted at magickers instead of mundanes I'm sure there must be a doc that describes this interaction.

[Aruven]

In my very personal, non-staff opinion:

The game needs more mundanity. A couple of years ago I would see elementalists killing each other to further themselves in relation to their element. I would see mundanes persue mundane goals, and I would see magickers persue goals related to their magick. I have to ask, where is the conflict now?

What are -you- doing Oh Antithesis to the -insert magicker type here-? Be you mundane or magicker, there are guidelines set out that are not being followed, or more importantly, left to the wayside for fear of retribution by other players. Gasp. There is a reason for the documented lines of mistrust, because if all the pices of the elemental -and- mundane puzzle work together you are effectively creating an unstoppable killing machine that was never intended to exist.

My solution to the percieved problems?

Pretend the game is not ending soon.
Respect and follow the documentation.
Quit powergaming.

There's a lot of restrictions in-game these days, from keeping players going their own ways... Trust me, I'd have my characters going completely -away- from the norm. It's odd for a game that encourages creativity, that it's so hard to pursue it in-character.

I'd also prefer to see powergaming END though, that'd be GREAT.