My Opinion of Tuluk

[Ghost]

Having said all that, Tuluk isn't as gritty as Allanak, and I don't know why. And I don't know how to change it. I just disagree on all of the above points Wink

I think it is because, the subtlety is not applied very well, as some other aspects of Tuluk that actually -defines- Tuluk.  I am not sure if applying the theory is difficult, or is it just me not seeing it.  And that is why I don't like Tuluk.  What is in theory is not applied well.  I never made a Tuluki nor am I actually planning to.  But I played a southerner there for quite a long time (more than a few IC years).  So this is all based on my observations there.

P.S:  Thanks John.  I enjoyed reading your post.  Thanks for putting the effor t to write it.

[Armaddict]

Noticed a slight derail going on with the labyrinth being 'stock' rooms and such.

I think that's there for a reason.  Looking at room descriptions, take a moment to think about what the labyrinth -is-.  It's a bunch of alleys.  All of them are filled with trash, beggars, and basically unsavory people and 'pictures', so to speak.  Nothing varies.

The room descriptions are all the same, minus special occurences such as statues, or different exits to go to, or the other odd thing that sticks out.

When someone who has never been there before goes, and they look at these descriptions, will they find their way out easily?  Probably not.

If a character who has never been in those alleys before wanders in too deep, and looks around for how to get back, will they find it easily?  Probably not.

Rather than it being bland, I think it actually -adds- to the effect of what the labyrinth is, exactly.  It's a labyrinth.  Maze.  A slum.  Nothing varies, nothing is different.  It's just a bunch of alleys to get lost or mugged in.  Minus the lack of variation, the descriptions are actually beautifully written...for something that's written to describe something generic.

[Recharge]

Tuluk kicks ass!

[Anonymous]

Tuluk kicks ass!

Sure.  Every mud needs a newbie area.

[Cuusardo]

I think that the half the problem for people who hate Tuluk is that they do not understand the concept of subtlety, and don't know how to be subtle.  The other half does understand subtlety, and they would rather be blunt and in everyone's face instead.

[Armaddict]

think that the half the problem for people who hate Tuluk is that they do not understand the concept of subtlety, and don't know how to be subtle. The other half does understand subtlety, and they would rather be blunt and in everyone's face instead.

Well, kind of.

I know what subtlety is, and can use it when needed.  I -do- like bluntness instead, but that's not anything that doesn't get boring sometimes as well.

My problem with the subtlety issue is that -everyone- is trying to be the epitome of subtle, with some exceptions that are always there.  To the point that the subtlety is translucent and not subtle at all, because you can expect it.  It makes characters...much less three dimensional, with a big area of the character that is the same as all the others.  It starts grating on my nerves when I see the 'obvious subtlety' everywhere, because really...obvious subtlety is an oxymoron and shouldn't exist.

[Arbonne]

Yet, how much different is obvious subtlety and bluntness? I don't see why someone should favor one and not the other. And in any case, with Tuluk, if the concept is taken right, it really should be difficult to know if someone is being obviously subtle for a reason or not. (edited to add: Might just be a set up, after all.  :roll: )

Yet, my only real gripe about Tuluk is it's lack of crime, almost similar to the south-side of Allanak?  :wink:  Though bordering on a different topic, I think one or two known criminal groups in Tuluk such as the Guild in Allakan would make things a whole lot more interesting.

[Intrepid]

With all due respect, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and if ever an assassin or thief does this, they won't be respected. They'll be laughed at/scorned.

As I'm not the original author, that's wonderful that you feel that way.

However, if I told you that there was once a caste of slaves that could
challenge the nobility of their empire, would you consider that ridiculous
as well?  Are they laughed at/scorned too?  It was the Ottoman Empire,
and they were known as the Mameleukes, and found it disturbingly easy
to cripple their own empire if they needed to.

Never underestimate the idea of a tried and true institution.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I hate Tuluk because, for a desert planet - one that charges you 30 bucks for a gallon of water - Tuluk not only has gardens in multitude, but seems fit to leave bowls of water laying around "for decoration" in the inns.

I hate Tuluk because the people who play there seem to be of the impression that the Grey Forest is similar to the Amazon in its height, thickness, and depth, when the reality (at least if you read the zone desc) is apparently closer to some grassy scrub and a few stands of stunted or baobab trees here and there.

I hate Tuluk because the shops are poorly laid out and don't serve my needs (where is the tailor, again?  I never did find it.  Why isn't the ranger inn closer to the gate so that we don't have to see the rest of you people if we need to meet our employer to pay off a debt?).  

I hate Tuluk because the board posts are petty, fruitless, and just plain shallow in comparison to role play that I am used to, and because they don't seem to have been cleared off since sometime in the late 1950's.

I hate Tuluk because the PCs there seem to be fairly stereotypical in regard to their character types.  

I hate Tuluk because so many characters there clash in one or more ways with my concept of what characters in a supposedly harsh world should be (Oh look, a guy bleeding on the road.  I will go and bandage him and help him be better!)

And no, I don't think that everyone should be out to kill everyone else - but being hunted beats sitting in a tavern trying to succeed just once on your listen check so that you can break into the carefully crafted cliques that have set place.

My hatred of Tuluk has nothing to do with your supposed subtlety or my desire for a more up-front gameplay in Allanak.  Truth be told, I'd be happy playing an isolated desert elf clan of two with my roommate if I thought we could garner enough skills to survive the shortest of trips to a water source and tell the rest of you city people to go walk off the shield wall.

[elvenchipmunk]

Wow...
I am really annoyed at a lot of things you just said Davien. You just insulted everyone playing in Tuluk right now whether they think you did or not. And I believe somewhere in the rules, or atleast the staff has said before that it is not a player's place to judge other's RP. I'm sorry you feel that way about Tuluk, and most of your post was reasonable of you to say, but I think saying things like:

I hate Tuluk because the people who play there...

is extremely insulting to myself and I'm sure others who play in Tuluk.

Now I'm no one to tell you how to post on the boards, but I thought you might want to read your post again...

Anyways, as for my opinion of Tuluk. I almost always play there, and I really enjoy myself up there. I agree with others that the way it is now is not the way I'd like to see it, but there are many good things about it as well.

I'll just mention a few things I like and don't like. For starters, I honestly don't like the number of bards in the city at the moment, though I'm sure it's just one of those 'half-elf' and 'mage' phases...we'll see :twisted:

I really feel that at the moment, Tuluk needs more...mundane characters (like mercenaries and stuff!) though I realize it might be boring for people to play these in the city. Whatever, only time will tell.

One thing I really like about Tuluk though, is its diversity, and the chance to go out and hunt all sorts of different animals, herbs, wood, and other stuff.

The types of RPT's in the city are for the most part interesting, though are almost always directed at a more upper-class group. It would be nice to have a few more RPT's for those of us without 100 000 'sid in the bank.

All round, I simply like Tuluk more...I think because that's where I first started, and have never really given Allanak a chance very many times, though from what I've seen, I simply enjoy playing in Tuluk more. *shrug*

[Anonymous]

I have no doubt that Tuluk has some merits.  A few I recognize and haven't posted.  

However, I'm tired of reading everyone say that the only people who can possibly hate Tuluk have no grasp of subtlety and just can't possibly know what they're talking about when they dislike a place.

Be offended.  I like company.

But I am keenly aware that my opinion of other people's role play means exactly nothing, and I'm fine with that.  I just want to be clear on the reasons why I choose not to play there while other people are speculating here.

[bardess]

I'll just mention a few things I like and don't like. For starters, I honestly don't like the number of bards in the city at the moment, though I'm sure it's just one of those 'half-elf' and 'mage' phases...we'll see :twisted:

I really feel that at the moment, Tuluk needs more...mundane characters (like mercenaries and stuff!) though I realize it might be boring for people to play these in the city. Whatever, only time will tell.

I agree completely.  Tuluk has had a surge of bard characters (and also jewelers?) and the city really does need some hunter, soldier, types.  But I also seem to have noticed that we've gotten some new players lately.  Also, some people don't like to play in the same place in a row, so that they don't run into their old characters friends.  Either way, what I'm trying to say is, sometimes it's hard to know what a city needs.

[HunterKiller]

I've played in 'nak and didn't like it.  There was absolutely nothing wrong with it, I just prefer tuluk.  Same with clans.  I've actively left a clan just because it wasn't a good fit.  There was absolutely nothing wrong with it and in one case it was pretty fascinating, it just didn't fit.  It's cool we have choices as a playerbase.  I'm cool with some people hating one place over another.  I would prefer the cities be more opposite but all in good time, I guess.  :-)

- HK

[Anonymous]

However, if I told you that there was once a caste of slaves that could
challenge the nobility of their empire, would you consider that ridiculous
as well?  Are they laughed at/scorned too?  It was the..., and they were known as the ...

How sad is this that I thought you were going to say "Ironsword"

[jstorrie]

You guys make it sound like there's no Luir's, no Storm, and no wilds. Tuluk and Allanak aren't the only two options, nor are they polar opposites.

Personally I dislike how difficult it is to play a hunter in 'Nak. I don't disagree that solo hunters should not be able to take down big trophy kills, but not being able to live at a subsistence level without mining obsidian or gathering salt is a bit of a pain. In terms of subtlety, though, I don't think Tuluk is particularly more subtle than Allanak; people are just a bit more polite. What does separate the two dramatically, I find, is that Allanakis are generally not possessed of any sort of camraderie, whereas Tulukis often are. As a recovering culture, I can see how this is appropriate for Tuluk.

My main - maybe only - beef with Tuluk is that the criminal scene is so far deep beneath the surface that many PCs simply will not come into contact with it. The internal strife in Allanak between the law and the shadies (not to mention the finger-wagglers) adds a very interesting dynamic that Tuluk seems to lack.

[moab]

The nice thing about having ooc disgust (is disgust too strong?  nah) about one place over the other is that it makes us, as players, willing to throw down our PCs lives (or, more preferably, other pc's lives.) over the issue.  :-D

[Intrepid]

How sad is this that I thought you were going to say "Ironsword"

There are a lot of people fixated on that little group of homicidal dwarves.

I wonder why that is...

[Anonymous]

The nice thing about having ooc disgust (is disgust too strong?  nah) about one place over the other is that it makes us, as players, willing to throw down our PCs lives (or, more preferably, other pc's lives.) over the issue.  :-D

Hell yeah!

There are a lot of people fixated on that little group of homicidal dwarves.

Because FUNNY characters rock the hizzouse.  how can you beat a dwarven pirate?  Someone should totally do that again.

[Intrepid]

Because FUNNY characters rock the hizzouse. how can you beat a dwarven pirate? Someone should totally do that again.

It sure does beggar the imagination.  Waaaaaay back at an old Arm
imm/player online meeting, it was either Azroen or Nessalin who once
alluded to Thrain being a butt-pirate...  :shock:

The thing that makes me wonder is: Why haven't we had a strong clan
of dwarves since then?

[Anonymous]

The thing that makes me wonder is: Why haven't we had a strong clan
of dwarves since then?

Because everyone's too busy tavernspotting and out subtling one another in Allanak and Tuluk?

-shrug-

I'm shit at playing a dwarf, but if you ever start something up that promises to be funny, call me up, and I'm in.

[Intrepid]

Because everyone's too busy tavernspotting and out subtling one another in Allanak and Tuluk?

-shrug-

I'm shit at playing a dwarf, but if you ever start something up that promises to be funny, call me up, and I'm in.

An intriguing idea, but I doubt anyone would share my sense of humor.

[Ghost]

Yeah, I agree with Davien.

Someone should make another pirate (dwarf or not) and we should all follow after.  There are lots of people with strong leadership and gritty positions, come on!

[Manhattan]

What's a pirate in Armageddon, other than a plain ol' raider?

[Anonymous]

Hey, get me a silt skimmer and a talking vestric, and let the swashbuckling begin!

[Intrepid]

It does bring to mind the kind of comedy of errors that could come about
if a group of dwarves all had one unifying but thoroughly insane focus that
they set out to complete with what is, for them, the utmost seriousness.

For us, it would be hilarious mayhem.

It would be even more fun if it was a group of Tuluki dwarves that tried
to fit into the populace by being effite and subtle.  Emphasis on tried.