Chains

[bloodfromstone]

I've seen a couple of references to chains in the world, and I realized I was instinctively picturing generic metal chains. This, obviously, isn't right.

So what are chains on Zalanthas generally made of, anyone know?

[EvilRoeSlade]

That's true, but most bone chains I've seen are just jewelry, not meant for any hard activities.

[Jherlen]

I once saw a room description which (I think) described a 'bone chain' being used to hold up a chandelier.

Personally I wish bone would stop being treated like Metal Lite in the game world. Bone rapiers? wtf?

[Cenghiz]

Bone.. I even saw shackles made of bone.. But it was.. kinda weird.. As someone above mentioned, isn't a hemp rope much stronger?

[Elgiva]

Maybe bone of Zalanthian animals is much stronger than bone we know from irl...?

[Sholdyn]

How would you even make a bone chain? Bone doesn't flex and you can't weld it together. You' d have to carve out a bunch of rings of bone and then carve slots to fit them together.... but then you could just as easily take them all apart again. Doesn't make sense.

[Cuusardo]

They would be very, very expensive due to the amount of work that goes into them.

[Oxidised Lizard]

Hmm, I suppose you could cut out slots to assemble the chain, then glue the cut-out chunks back in afterwards.  This is assuming Zalanthas has some kind of glue-like substance...  Or you could tie the chunks back in - seems a bit long-winded though.

[naatok]

It is my understanding that the strongest material for restraints in Zalanthas (barring metal, of course) is giant hair.

Apparently giant hair has some rather interesting properties...including great tensile strength, resistence to extreme heat...not to mention the flexibility to be braided, twisted, tied into all sorts of interesting and useful shapes.

To clarify...I'm referring to the hair of full-blooded giants.  Quasi-legendary creatures of immense size and strength.  Not the more common half-giants.

It seems to me that most bone would be too brittle to be used as restraints, however Mekillot bone is supposed to be very strong, heavy and durable as bone goes.  There are examples of slave collars, weapons, armor plating, wrist guards, wrist restraints, etc.  made from Mekillot bone throughout Zalanthas.

[mansa]

Back in the time, the Trader's Inn used to reference the lamps to be hanging on brass chains.  Some things have been corrected from faults in the past.

[Cyrian20]

lol bone does to bend, soak a bone in vinegar over night, see if that shit aint rubber in the morning.

[Hexxaex]

Animals of Zalanthas probably have really strong bones, and you can make so many things with the material.  People in Zalanthas are masters at working bone, so a chain really isn't that hard to make, considering how often they work with it.

Here on Earth?  How many people that you know make bone weapons, armor, jewelry, and arrows for a living?  Not too many, if any at all.  Zalanthans do that stuff every day, so a chain is easy.

[The Fang Oracle]

*wants a cloak of giant-hair thread, so that she can waltz up to a Krathi mage and poke him in the eyes*

[Jherlen]

I don't buy the argument that just because Zalanthans are forced to work with bone more, that they can make things easier from it. You can't forge bone, or smelt it, or do a lot of the things that a smith working with metal can do to forge it into things. A bone chain would have to be made in the way Oxidised Lizard described, or something similar, and it just doesn't make much sense that any crafter would waste time doing that when they have rope available.

As for bone rapiers...
http://images.google.com/images?q=rapier&hl=en

Take a look at those pictures. That's a rapier. See how thin it is? Does it really make sense that a bone weapon shaped like that would be very useful?

Metal is flexible and can bend a bit. Bones are not designed to bend, by their very use. They break. If you take a thing made of bone and jam it straight at anything hard (like, say, a breastplate), it would shatter. Likewise if anyone wielding a heavier weapon struck your rapier, it would probably break it in half.

Not to mention, a single piece of bone that long would have to come from a pretty big beastie. Big beasties are hard to hunt and kill. Would any weaponcrafter really want to use good materials to make a weapon like a rapier when he could make a bigger, more powerful club or longsword?

If Zalanthan bone is strong enough that a weapon like a rapier is feasible, or that chains can be made from it, then I don't see any point to the "metal is rare" theme, because Zalanthan bone can apparently do everything metal can do.

[Maybe42or54]

This game used to be a Hack and slash game, so calm down.

The strikingly handsome man runs up to you, bone rapier in hand.
You look at the Byn Lieutenant and smirk.
The Awesome, broadaxe wielding, man of doom says, to the strikingly handsome man, in sirihish, "You fuckin' kidding me, fucking spiced out of your mind boy?"

The strikingly handsome man nicks the byn lieutenants neckguard made out of chitin.
The Byn lieutenant's attack is absorbed by the man's the silt horror shell breastplate.


Rapiers are a fancy man's tool of choice, during way the hell back when. I agree that they really should be taken out of Armageddon. Seriously. If my PC was ever killed by a rapier, I'd bang my head against the wall until I forgot it happened.

[Agent_137]

Jherlen, well, duh.

the lack of metal is thematic, not part of the "harsh" atmosphere.

[COGATO]

I would have to say that noone has ever held a mekillot bone rapier before...so therefore...none of you have any idea how strong mekillot bone rapiers are. For all we know, they are just as strong if not stronger than earth metal rapiers. Until you see in a description that the rapier appears brittle, or something to that affect, and the rapiers are still parrying obsidian axes, you have to assume that the bone holds properties that allow it to do so. Or thats my thoughts on it anyways.

[Fragmented]

Bone rapiers are silly, I don't care how dense the bone of a mekillot is. It's still going to snap like a twig as soon as it hits something solid with any force. So there.  :twisted:

[Jherlen]

If mekillot bone is just as good as metal, then why is metal so prized and valuable? What's the purpose of having metal be rare other than letting people go "Ooooooooh, a metal sword!"

A rapier is a fairly advanced weapon. When I see a rapier I don't think "harsh, primitive desert planet", I think 16th/17th century Three Musketeers-style Europe........ which Zalanthas is not.

If bone rapiers are feasible, why stop there? What's to stop Zalanthans from developing something like cannons or muskets? They have flash powder, and they could hollow out a bone and pack it with powder and a small bone bullet. If mekillot bone is really that strong, it shouldn't shatter when the gun was fired. But does that make sense? I hold that bone rapiers are every bit as silly as bone guns would be.

Bone isn't metal, it shouldn't be treated as having the properties of metal, and it shouldn't be thought of as a substitute for metal, and you shouldn't be able to make everything out of bone that you could out of metal. It just doesn't make sense.

[Dalmeth]

If mekillot bone is just as good as metal, then why is metal so prized and valuable? What's the purpose of having metal be rare other than letting people go "Ooooooooh, a metal sword!"

Because it would be lighter, less prone to breaking, easier to repair, probably would have a better balance.

[palomar]

There is also, quite splendid, chainmail.

Edited to add: Yes, I find that quite odd, but people who work with bone are quite likely to come up with such things sooner or later.

[Only He Stands There]

Personally, I'd pull the Suspension of Disbelief flag out for this sort of thing.

But that's just me.

[path]

I agree. Once my mind wanders off on a track like this I start to wonder if chain would have been invented at all as a functunal format for the present materials. Then I think about the moment when one course is taken, and the infinite inventional possible realities splintering out and then I get boggled wondering what those other inventions might be, considering the different materials and uses and cultural backgrounds.

But we cant go on forever remaking the history to our world, because that is very unfriendly and elitist to newcommers who don't care that a grat is not congradulations, but a means of securing someone employing ropes tied to each end of a short length of bone (the rope being braided with barbs which catch easily in flesh and make wiggling undesirable)...

Suspended belief.

[Medena]

I find it pretty funny that while people have no problems accepting that the Big Defiler casting "The Grand Fart of Nihilistic Doom" on you would mean death, they can't just let go a few things made out of bone.

[Anonymous]

I find it pretty funny that while people have no problems accepting that the Big Defiler casting "The Grand Fart of Nihilistic Doom" on you would mean death, they can't just let go a few things made out of bone.

This sort of argument in a fantasy world always irks me.

There are rules to the world to make it coherent.  One of those rules is that, in general, unless the properties of an item are specicially pointed out to be different than it's earthen counterpart then you should consider it to be roughly the same.  Obsidian on Zalanthas is similar to earth obsidian, blood on Zalanthas is similar to earth blood, etc.

Defilers are not a concept taken from our reality but there are still rules about how defilers work.

Personally I have no real problem with bone chains holding up a chandelier in Armageddon, it might push the boundaries of what is realistic but if you can use a bone sword to cut through thick chitin or shells then I'd wager that Zalanthan bone is more dense than our own earthen bone.

That being said just because this is a fantasy world it doesn't mean that there aren't rules and a 'reality' based on our own.