Where have all the REAL Mercenaries gone?

[Maybe42or54]

On the light of the artisty thread and my recent post involving the name of the T'zai Byn.

Why is it that people trust a few companies with a max of maybe twenty people, but don't trust a mercenary company, such as the T'zai byn, when it has about 500 people, give or take?

Any other gripes, concerns, and reasonings?

[Ghost]

Byn costs more sometimes.

[Rhyden]

Bynners smell funny.

I think most see the Byn as being a Noble House resource rather than a commoners' mercenary service as well. Also, small mercenary groups are more secretive and can carry out tasks that the Byn may not be known to do usually.

[RunningMountain]

Kroz, Iltrin, Mazzel, Gowynn - Ah I miss the old days...

[Tamarin]

If you're in Tuluk, the Byn aren't terribly well-received.  Too many times, they've sided with Allanak, although this would have been entirely due to the fact that Allanak paid them a lot of money.

[HardCarbon]

Recently.. the Byn have done a Really really good job of making their competition look attractive.

[Spoon]

Maybe it's because the Byn is one of the few organisations to hire elves and half-elves. And anyone else who isn't locked up.

[Anonymous Tuluki]

With the name of the current active Byn unit, no Tuluki should want to hire them on grounds of that alone.

[Agent_137]

Wait wait, so PCs in the code supported clan "The Circle" get preference over indies regardless of cost and other factors, but the PCs in the code supported clan "The T'zai Byn" get screwed because they charge a little more and you don't like their active sergeant?

Wow. What happened to the idea:
If you want something cheap and dirty that might last one or two uses, you go to the independent. Want something that'll work and last, you go to the professional.


On a sidenote, i want to do a Milo Minderbinder with the Byn.

"Attack that fort there for 3000 'sid? Sure thing, Lord Templar."

*leak information to Tuluks*

"Guard that fort there from impending attack for 4000 'sid? Sure thing, Chosen One."

*march on fort*

"Ok troops, split up. half in the fort, half out of the fort. At dawn, we'll charge the fort, and fight until noon. Try not to kill each other, ok? Oh, and at noon, you guys in the fort surrender. Nak's paying us a good large less than Tuluk."

[Maybe42or54]

I always viewed the Byn as the turncoats and killers of the cities, the known ones anyway.

They can trade knowledge and rumors from the other city.
A tuluki templar wants to know of a scouting trip that the byn is in? Bribe the hell out of them.

Oh my god! They are expensive!
Good services require more.

After all, you don't pay a bard that can't sing worth crap to sing for the annual Black Robe Gift Exchange party.

You get the famed Bards and the ones who have been around and are known. You get what you pay for, and The byn has compounds. Any others have them? That has gotta mean they atleast get a good paying job every now and then.

As for the new unit name, The Commander of the T'zai Byn is northerner, am I right? Why would he allow that, that breaks the rules of staying independant from both cities.

Where have all the REAL Mercenaries gone?

Looked at the bottom of the shield wall?

[Trenidor]

Ya...it's already been said.

Pretty much the byn are too expencive, have a notority to have foul people in their midst, and they've been known to do some dirty deeds.

Another thing is, it's easier to hire that lone mercinary who's online right now, than have to wait for your byn sergeant to get around and set up the deal. Maybe we could start spreading rumors of how they're not trained all that well for prepairedness, heh.

Besides...there's no limits to how far away the next safe area is...
One could easily make a trip between the cities in less than one or two IG hours. I wish someone would clearify how far appart they are really, it's become a major problem that people keep dissmissing. *sigh*

[Maybe42or54]

That may explain for simple minded commoners. As for Merchant houses and Noble houses?

The should hire the byn, since they are the foremost experts in what they do. Sure, inde mercenaries can twink their way to awesomeness before a bynner, and one inde warrior that killed more than once a day, and moved up on the scale of what they killed, Bamuk one day, raptor the next, mekillot the day after.

Noble houses should hire the Byn, or they'd be setting the example and everyone else wouldn't buy the best.
Get my point?

[Empress]

I don't think using the same argument with Bards vs. Circle Bards works with the Indy Mercenaries and the Byn.  The Circle bards are known to be the cream of the crop, no exceptions made.  They are the rock stars that everybody dreams about being when they're alseep at night.  The Byn, while there is no doubt they are good at what they do, and are the biggest established mercenary company in the known world, are also known to be low class drunken riff raff.  Please correct me if i'm wrong I know well to do officers of the Byn can command great respect, but i'm talking about the Byn as a whole.  While the Byn is without doubt the very best money can buy for certain things like hiring a mini army to take out a gith camp, or even guarding merchant wagons and stuff like that, there are many more delicate things that if I were an prospective employer, I wouldn't want to hire the Byn for.

As far as I know, the Byn operate in Tuluk and Allanak, and must respect the laws of both cities.  Many people probably have jobs that require a certain degree of discression and secrecy or even be against the law all together.  I think any REAL Indy mercenary group is lead by a very established and capable person who already has his own deep network of contacts and allies who will trust him on delicate matters.  I'm not saying that the Byn couldn't pull something like that off, but in general hiring the Byn might be a little more ambiguous than hiring from your own underground network.  Just remember if you see a noble or merchant house hiring an independent mercenary, maybe there is a good reason for it and maybe their employee/employer relationship goes back further and deeper than you think.

As for independent mercenaries being cheaper, I don't find that at all from my own personal experience.  I would agree an established house of any kind skimping out on hiring an absolute nobody because he is cheaper would look pretty bad, but if they did I would imagine it would catch up to them sooner or later.  
 :shock:

[EvilRoeSlade]

When you hire a mercenary, you're hiring someone who will die in the place of someone who you don't want to die.

I sure as hell would hire the cheapest mercenaries I can.  Therefore if you aren't being hired, lower your price.

[Agent_137]

Wrong.

That's ONE reason you might hire a merc.

Sometimes you don't have enough people on hand.

Other times, the mercs are better trained.

Other times, you want all the swords you can get.

Other times, you want the simplicity giving them one simple goal and knowing it will be carried out.

Othertimes, it's cheaper for you to hire some one than do it yourself. (outsourcing)

While the Byn aren't assassins, they are the best mercenary company in the known world. Hands down.

So of course don't hire them for a delicate assassination. Hire a free-lance assassin, or a small group of them. (When I say assassin, I don't mean guild_ assassin, necessarily.)

But if you need something blown up, broken, or sworded, you call the byn, 'cause they're the best. Period.

And you sure as hell can compare Large organizations hiring of the Byn to large organizations hiring of Circle bards. Both are recognized as the best, but maybe a little more expensive. And large organizations are going to want to hire just that, the best.

Granted, if you just want bodies to feed to the butcher, hire some indies.  [derail]But I find it dispicable that you'd go into a battle where you knew you'd have a good number of people die. That's poor generalship, which I see way too much of ingame. Sure, some commoner made leader might have an excuse, but templars and such should have been trained in unit combat. To make up for that OOC deficiency, go read some Sun Tzu, please.[/derail]

[wizturbo]

I think the reason is, sometimes jobs require a bit of brains to pull off, and with some noteable exceptions I've found the Byn to be lacking brains on numerous occasions.

The exceptions however, have been very impressive, and those people have received FAR more business because of it.

[Trenidor]

It wouldn't be too bad of an idea to limit the power the houses have with their guards just to have more PC interaction.

[creeper386]

[derail]

[derail]But I find it dispicable that you'd go into a battle where you knew you'd have a good number of people die. That's poor generalship, which I see way too much of ingame. Sure, some commoner made leader might have an excuse, but templars and such should have been trained in unit combat. To make up for that OOC deficiency, go read some Sun Tzu, please.[/derail]

Well, I seem to remember MANY accountings as to all sorts of use of fodder in battles. The whole, send in peasants and at the right time charge in with mounted calvary ussually expected fairly large footmen casualties. Due to the fact that they trampled their own men from time to time, and if they loose some of their troops to break the line and make the charge possible it was worth it, as it won battles.

Also, during the whole musket to musket combat, I'm sure the generals knew they were going to loose men. As lining up and shooting at each other tends to do. That doesn't mean they weren't tactical geniouses of there era and particular style of combat.

Creeper

[Agent_137]

Wrong eras, buddy. Guns don't apply. Neither does cavalry.

But this could become more of a discussion of the woeful inadequacies of the mud code dealing with large battles:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8331
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8236

or at least continue a discussion of what good battle tactics and strategies are:
http://www.sonshi.com/
http://forum.sonshi.com/


Lastly, just because somebody won battles doesn't mean they were great tacticians. See: Rome vs Hannibal. Hannibal rocked, Rome sucked. But Rome Won.

[Maybe42or54]

Numbers game in that one.
When you are a member of one of the richest families on the face of the desert, and you are buying the cheap shit instead of the best?

If a kadian or salarr did that, It would be telling everyone to just go with the cheapest.
And noble houses worrying about who is cheaper? That would tell me that the nobles are going broke.

But then PCs don't seem to use propoganda.

[Gaare]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12634&highlight=

Real Mercs will be soon in Byn..

What a post it is..

[EvilRoeSlade]

Sometimes you don't have enough people on hand.

To die.

A large organization always has enough people on hand, even if it isn't represented by a PC population.

Other times, the mercs are better trained.

That's just silly.  How could they be better trained when they're always dying?

Other times, you want all the swords you can get.

To die.

Other times, you want the simplicity giving them one simple goal and knowing it will be carried out.

I'm not even going to touch that, because I can't understand it.

Othertimes, it's cheaper for you to hire some one than do it yourself. (outsourcing)

Why would it be cheaper to hire out?  Probably because if one of your own people dies, you've lost thousands in the wages and sustenance you've put into her, but if a mercenary dies, you don't have to pay her?

While the Byn aren't assassins, they are the best mercenary company in the known world. Hands down.

Of course they are.  Their clan documentation says so.

And you sure as hell can compare Large organizations hiring of the Byn to large organizations hiring of Circle bards. Both are recognized as the best, but maybe a little more expensive. And large organizations are going to want to hire just that, the best.

A large organization does want to hire the best.  AS PERMANENT EMPLOYEES.  Mercenaries?  Hire the cheapest, because they're just going to die.

Granted, if you just want bodies to feed to the butcher, hire some indies.  [derail]But I find it dispicable that you'd go into a battle where you knew you'd have a good number of people die. That's poor generalship, which I see way too much of ingame. Sure, some commoner made leader might have an excuse, but templars and such should have been trained in unit combat. To make up for that OOC deficiency, go read some Sun Tzu, please.[/derail]

I doubt you've ever played a templar if you believe this.

[spawnloser]

I'm going to back ERS on this one.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Treindor wrote:

Pretty much the byn are too expencive, have a notority to have foul people in their midst, and they've been known to do some dirty deeds.

While this is certainly true, it doesn't say a lot for those few mercenaries who aren't even good enough for the Byn. Can you imagine that? Not good enough for the Byn? They'd have to be drunken, sadistic, semi-retarded animals willing to slit children's throats and ejaculate in their entrails for a tube of spice.
Of course, there are those few mercenaries that are too good for the Byn... but I'm pretty sure they'd be the exception, and not the rule. As ERS pointed out, mercenaries don't usually live long enough to be widely respected, skilled, and important enough to have their own contracts outside of a well-known and established mercenary company. Like the Byn.
With all that said, there are some reasons to hire independent mercs. Some one pointed out a good one; the T'zai Byn's strict policy of neutrality. The Byn will never take a contract to go and torch the Red Sun Commons, for example. Half their company is located there! A group of fanatical 'Nakki loyalists, however, who would like to be "compensated" for their service, might. And this is just one example.
In general, though, I think all the good contracts would probably be going to the Byn, and independent mercs or mercenary groups would really have to work hard to wrestle away some contracts from the Byn, or pick up the scraps the Byn wouldn't even touch. If the Byn is charging too much, the solution is simple... the Byn needs to charge less. That's the beautiful thing about a monopoly. You can drive down your prices to a stupidly low level, and even though you take heavy losses, you'll also demolish the competition in the process.
In conclusion, yes, independent mercenaries exist. And, yes, they will occasionally get a deal when the T'zai Byn doesn't. But the T'zai Byn will still dominate, and probably always will. So quit your whinin', Runner, and get back in those latrines!