I feel like that would do to Arm what battlegrounds did to World of Warcraft.

Disposable pvp where only one side has something to lose? No thanks.

I think it would be fun to have a "flavor" role on the side to help you NOT be in your current character for a couple days.

However, I also think this break from a character would inevitably lead a small number of people to really like the RP of their secondary character. I think we'd see more storage, or odd risk-taking of primary roles. We have a small playerbase, so it wouldn't be rampant, but I think it would be a problem.

Honestly, I think there could stand to be more Gladiator roles, or "sponsored secret roles" that allow for a "2nd" character on a limited basis. Providing staff have time to help guide it.

I'd be okay with temporary storage. Be okay with multiple PC's(not logged in at same time) for trustworthy players as well. Not really seeing the issues it could cause that permanent storage, death and suicide don't already cause.

When it comes conflicts of interest... Do you even roleplay? Do you really think there's no way of establishing who trustworthy players are?

As for losing a player to their secondary PC... Players are not beholden to you. They do not owe you their presence. And it's likely you will permanently lose their presence if they get bored with the current PC as it stands. This would allow them to come back.

Karma envy? Maybe follow the guidelines set out for gaining Karma if it's really an issue for you.

Those who lack trust in staff and fellow players kind of make me roll my eyes. I'm not sure how you roleplay at all with such little faith. I mean, the possibilities for abuse are already staggering with that sort of mindset.

We have had temporary roles, typically for the duration of an RPT, which players could fill with a secondary character until the RPT was over, and then go back to playing their current character. There were opportunities like this recently, and future opportunities are not out of the question.

That's probably about the extent to which players will ever have "multiple" characters.

I'm simply not interested in making karma more top-heavy. For me, it's not an issue of abuse - high-karma players are definitely considered trustworthy, and the system is becoming more meritocratic overall - where that high karma doesn't stay around if we begin to have trust issues with a high-karma player - compared to a decade ago, when you could get karma from being in a relationship with a staff member or becoming staff yourself. There are checks and balances now, and most players are where they should be, on a karma track (upward or downward) they should be on.

It's an issue of fairness and balance. The karma scale is already long-established as a ladder that unlocks race and guild/subguild options as you play. It's already not supposed to be the end goal of players. Put simply, the more we add alluring things to the top of the ladder, the more it becomes the end goal of players to reach the top, instead of simply having fun and letting everything else happen naturally.

The karma scale is much simpler (and frankly, far more tolerable) if we don't add nebulous bonuses to the top of it where players get special loosely-defined perks. Races and subguilds are solidly defined. Being able to play a second PC in any secondary role you want isn't particularly so.

Quote from: Nergal on December 05, 2016, 10:55:22 AM
That's probably about the extent to which players will ever have "multiple" characters.

What about the aforementioned less-than-staff but more-than-player helpers animating NPCs from a limited NPC pool (flagged for their use) including slaves and gladiators? I totally understand why multiple characters are a no-no, but I thought the NPC idea had merit.

No.

The issue with players animating NPCs is similar to the issue of using vNPCs in emotes. With vNPCs you are already limited to pure flavor, so animating NPCs for the same flavor effect (which would be the limitation, due to fairness) isn't significantly different.

Staff are happy to animate NPCs on request if it makes sense to do so. Sometimes this has to be pre-arranged, sometimes a wish will suit (depending on the situation).

I think it would be okay for a few people to be given access to echos, for example (big if and all)
Lets say that player A has been playing since the very start of Arm, has displayed solid rp skills and dependability to stay IC. Has proven time and again they can be trusted, perhaps this player could be given access to echos, just a simple thing that they are limited on, they could just have it so that that random breed at the gaj can bitch about his day then brood and whine some more with actual words rather than simply existing.

I've seen players do some wonders with just emote to set the scene.

Like staring up at a ridgeline to see humanoid silhouettes or pausing to listen to a distant roar of a hunting tok when on the plains.

I don't know that giving them room echoes is needed. It's a collaborative thing amongst people who trust each other to roleplay.

The thing about a room echo is that, when you see it, you know someone is present with authority to load mobs and give you some !FUN!.

I think the temporary roles thing is probably all that's needed, and I support it's use.

Back when there were two major play areas it would have been bosslike awesome. You could have had ready made enemies and redshirts if you needed.

Giving people alts seems against the particular culture of this game, but I would support it and have enjoyed having the option elsewhere to play something different and less consequential than a 'main' character as a change of pace.

The problem is that on a MUSH, where code doesn't matter as much as you can't run up and stab people to death, there is less potential for metagaming abuse, but imo people who want to metagame already have plenty of ways to do so, so I'm not sure how much extra risk alts would really create.

The only reason I would see this would be good would be when your pc has died/been stored and you might might wait four days for a new one, but that benefit is totally swamped for me by the fact that I could not possibly be invested in more than one of the two characters. The second would be a throwaway that would almost always be a trouble-causing elf that would make me feel guilty because I would hardly ever log on (i.e. make myself vulnerable to the dangers of being logged on.) Also they'd be a crazy elf usually, whispering sexy things in peoples' ears after >ooc: consent? Does that sound like someone I've invested time and energy in?

Karma envy is something I had once--- when I was new and hadn't played twenty hours of game time yet. I think unless you have something wrong with your moral compass you should be able to reach 2 karma, which means you can play six kinds of witches and all the mastercrafters and weapons specialists. The trick is you have to know to send in a karma review, after you get your longevity karma for not dying.

I remember staff saying that most people end up around 3-5 karma and few people get to 8. I personally feel that is fine, although I secretly wish a lesser psion and a lesser sorcerer subguild/guild would be made and be regularly appable for somewhat lower karmas. As it stands, most people don't get to play those, and their restrictiveness would keep them rare enough to keep immersions solid.

It isn't really hard to get karma, though. It's mostly about reposnibility: communicate with staff, bio, plot.

Karma for longevity. It's a thing, I hear.

Quote from: boog on December 11, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
It isn't really hard to get karma, though. It's mostly about reposnibility: communicate with staff, bio, plot.

True, if you're patient. It took me years and years to reach my current karma level.

I never use bios and my plots, well...  I seem to be an alright roleplayer, though. I guess that's enough.

Quote from: boog on December 11, 2016, 02:03:05 PM
It isn't really hard to get karma, though. It's mostly about reposnibility: communicate with staff, bio, plot.

It's not hard to get 2-3 karma

Beyond that it becomes exponentially more difficult

Sorry for that typo! Phone posting isn't for me.

But to be frank, I think it's easier these days than in the past, especially if you don't do silly stuff.

I guess mileage may vary!

I don't think staff particularly distrust most people.

If the one-pc limit were extended to two, I think you would see a weird amount of throwaways, but this could improve plots. People who are more willing to sell assassination attempts, people who sell spice in the city, more rinthis, more Tuluki sympathizers. If people were more willing to put themselves in danger, they could make things pretty fun. Hell, something the game environment could really use is more elves, and I think a lot of people don't see elves as their 'forever character.' Its something to play while planning an over-elaborate plot for something human down the road. Its something to play until you fail steal and get your hand cut off in jail. Or until the tenant of the room you always eat out of comes in while you are there because you forgot it was peaktime. Moar elves, forever.

Actually, I've changed my mind about the rule. I would be fine with it if you had to be a pureblooded elf to play a second. I'm a big immersions girl. A single line in the elf helpfile sets the tone for half of the game, and it has never been represented properly in the game. Maybe somewhat in Tuluk, never in Allanak.

God no. Please. As a reasonably high karma player I don't trust many players not to meta the shite out of this. Karma doesn't really come into it.

In this event Miradus is spot on. But there is no shame in storing if you don't enjoy your role.

This is a classic "victim of your own success" meme.

1.  A problem arises.
2.  You fix the problem.
3.  Time passes.
4.  People forget what the problem was.
5.  People start questioning whether the fix was necessary.

That being said, you could make an argument that the "shitlord problem" is less prevalent, because there are plenty of multiplayer games online now that siphon off the shitlord population, compared to when Armageddon was born.

On the other hand, you could also make an argument that the aging playerbase makes it much more likely that abusive players will be savvy about their abuses, less likely to get caught red-handed, but be just as abusive.

Quote from: Inks on December 12, 2016, 02:55:48 AM
God no. Please. As a reasonably high karma player I don't trust many players not to meta the shite out of this. Karma doesn't really come into it.

In this event Miradus is spot on. But there is no shame in storing if you don't enjoy your role.

This sort of feeds into the idea that the more karma you have, the more jaded and mistrusting of the playerbase you are. I think that's a pretty crap concept to hold on to. Why not give our community the benefit of the doubt?

QuoteWhy not give our community the benefit of the doubt?

Because every time you do you'll end up disappointed.

Quote from: Lutagar on December 12, 2016, 11:19:19 AM

QuoteWhy not give our community the benefit of the doubt?

Because every time you do you'll end up disappointed.

Cool. Sorry, but why do you play the game exactly? I personally feel that people who have that opinion are part of the problem, not the solution.

I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords. Did you really think you were going to get any answer other than that?